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Havoc / Trenadrol Help

Odielift

New member
Trying to plan my next ph cycle and looking for something to add lean gains. From research this seems to be a go to stack for a lot of people and seems to be good results from it.

Planning a six week cycle of both
40mg Havoc
90mg Trenadrol

Also thinking of running a test base to improve libido and reduce lethargy as I’ve ran havoc before and experienced both. Either epi-andro or activate xtreme..?? Or is there any other suggestions..??

On cycle will also consist of the usual, cycle assist, taurine, joint support, milk thistle and if any one has any suggestions to add in anything else..??

PCT will consist of serm, nolva, 20/20/10/10 or should I bump this higher as I’m stacking??
Also triazole running 2 weeks beyond serm and again cycle assist and creatine.

I’m 27yrs training for the past 6/7 years consistent. Currently 90kg and looking to add some more lean gains. This would be my 2nd ph cycle previous was havoc/androtest no real sides just a bit of loss of libido. Gained about 10kg half lean half mass and kept most.

Any critiques, suggestions or info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
I’d go for clomid during pct personally; it’s more effective and I’ve also heard people say to avoid running nolva after using 19-nors to avoid prolactin issues. For a test base, I’d say test, trest or 4 andro in that order. Trest might not be the best option for your specific cycle though due to it increasing methylestradiol and prolactin (prolactin is also a possible issue with trendione).
 
AnabolicGuru said:
I’d go for clomid during pct personally; it’s more effective and I’ve also heard people say to avoid running nolva after using 19-nors to avoid prolactin issues. For a test base, I’d say test, trest or 4 andro in that order. Trest might not be the best option for your specific cycle though due to it increasing methylestradiol and prolactin (prolactin is also a possible issue with trendione).
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The problem isn't to run nolva during pct, it's using it during the cycle if you get gyno so it's almost a must running an ai and caber to prevent this. Nolva during pct is fine. also don't think the nandrolone is strong enough to cause any prolactin issues but hey we're all different :)
 
Chados said:
The problem isn't to run nolva during pct, it's using it during the cycle if you get gyno so it's almost a must running an ai and caber to prevent this. Nolva during pct is fine. also don't think the nandrolone is strong enough to cause any prolactin issues but hey we're all different :)
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Clomid>nolva for pct still though imo haha
 
AnabolicGuru said:
Clomid>nolva for pct still though imo haha
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Perhaps, I've been hearing nolva is stronger per mg and personally I dont get sides from nolva but Clomid can give me blurry vision. I like to stack both though :) but yeah for nandrolones I guess to be sure the gear is out of your system Clomid is the easier way to go.

You go kinda low with Clomid on ph cycles right?
 
Chados said:
Perhaps, I've been hearing nolva is stronger per mg and personally I dont get sides from nolva but Clomid can give me blurry vision. I like to stack both though :) but yeah for nandrolones I guess to be sure the gear is out of your system Clomid is the easier way to go.

You go kinda low with Clomid on ph cycles right?
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Nolva is stronger mg per mg, but that doesn’t matter because it’s a different drug and every drug has it’s own doses. Clomid is generally ran at 25-50mg but it’s effective enough at 25mg for a milder cycle imo.
 
AnabolicGuru said:
Nolva is stronger mg per mg, but that doesn’t matter because it’s a different drug and every drug has it’s own doses. Clomid is generally ran at 25-50mg but it’s effective enough at 25mg for a milder cycle imo.
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Yeah I like to run it at 50 and down to 25, can see how 25 would be enough
 
AnabolicGuru said:
I’d go for clomid during pct personally; it’s more effective and I’ve also heard people say to avoid running nolva after using 19-nors to avoid prolactin issues. For a test base, I’d say test, trest or 4 andro in that order. Trest might not be the best option for your specific cycle though due to it increasing methylestradiol and prolactin (prolactin is also a possible issue with trendione).
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So your saying to use one of those test base instead of epi-andro or activate xtreme?? I don’t quite understand what prolactin is so think I need to do some more research before going forward with this. And why i chose nolva over clomid is I’ve a very good and reliable source for nolva. But thanks for the response, everything else looks good for the stack??
 
Odielift said:
So your saying to use one of those test base instead of epi-andro or activate xtreme?? I don’t quite understand what prolactin is so think I need to do some more research before going forward with this. And why i chose nolva over clomid is I’ve a very good and reliable source for nolva. But thanks for the response, everything else looks good for the stack??
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Don't think you'll have to worry about prolactin on something that barely converts to tren at best. Nolva is fine pct but you might wanna keep an ai on hand in case you get gyno which I highly doubt.
 
ok for starters.. I have ran this stack so I can tell you at 40 mgs of epi you will be borderline dried out in your joints.. the trenadrol is new im assuming as the old stock is long long gone by now.. so @ 90 mgs the trendione as it is will just barely be starting to give u all the benefits of tren... but I think u will want 120-150mgs to really feel it. all this said .. you will be fine with your PCT as is and you shouldn't need any prolactin control if you stay at 90mgs. there is a new board sponsor PRE you can grab prami, clomid, sildinifil and anastrozole.... all of which you should at least have on hand when introducing these harder PH/DS's to your research animals.
 
For a test base you should run dermacrine or a 4-Andro product...dermacrine would be the most cost effective of the two though.

Epiandro would help with libido and some aggression, you can also stack epiandro with dermacrine. But, I don't see how activate extreme would be beneficial while ON
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
ok for starters.. I have ran this stack so I can tell you at 40 mgs of epi you will be borderline dried out in your joints.. the trenadrol is new im assuming as the old stock is long long gone by now.. so @ 90 mgs the trendione as it is will just barely be starting to give u all the benefits of tren... but I think u will want 120-150mgs to really feel it. all this said .. you will be fine with your PCT as is and you shouldn't need any prolactin control if you stay at 90mgs. there is a new board sponsor PRE you can grab prami, clomid, sildinifil and anastrozole.... all of which you should at least have on hand when introducing these harder PH/DS's to your research animals.
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40mg of epi seemed to be the sweet spot for me going by the last cycle. Started at 30 didn’t really feel like I was getting the most from it bumped to 40 and felt great with no real sides bumped to 50 and that’s when sides started kicking in so brought it back to 40 and cruised at that :)

Yeah Trenadrol by fusion supplements. From what I real most people would run it at 120mg but cause it’s my first time I’ll start it at 90 and see how I’m feeling.

If I bump it higher should I then have something for prolactin??

And sorry for my ignorance but prami, sildinifil, anastrozole, I haven’t heard of these before??

Thanks for your reply :)
 
IconicForm said:
For a test base you should run dermacrine or a 4-Andro product...dermacrine would be the most cost effective of the two though.

Epiandro would help with libido and some aggression, you can also stack epiandro with dermacrine. But, I don't see how activate extreme would be beneficial while ON
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Yeah I’ve been doing more reading since starting this post and most people seem to swear by dermacrine, so will give that a ride and see how it goes :)

So you think leave out activate extreme and just stack dermacrine and epiandro??

Also because I’m stacking should I run an ai during cycle or just wait till pct and run it then in case of rebound Gyno from the havoc??
 
Odielift said:
Yeah I’ve been doing more reading since starting this post and most people seem to swear by dermacrine, so will give that a ride and see how it goes :)

So you think leave out activate extreme and just stack dermacrine and epiandro??

Also because I’m stacking should I run an ai during cycle or just wait till pct and run it then in case of rebound Gyno from the havoc??
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An AI would likely be counterproductive while ON. I would save the AI and the Activate for post cycle :thumbsup:
 
prami is for prolactin control, sildinifil is Viagra, anastrozole is an aromatase inhibitor.

all things you should have on hand iMo

only you will know for sure if you need prolactin control though most people would opt for frontline assault on prolactin via inhibit p (an over the counter sup), and only use prami/caber when needed. improper use of prami or caber bring with them a host of bad side effects as well.

you have lots of research to do id say before you start this run. your pretty much in the big league now with this stack. its a powerhouse if the stuff you got is legit.
 
Is it possible or even worth stacking dermacrine and a 4-andro product as a test base?? I know trest is the best out there but I’ve also heard that can cause prolactin issues when stacking with tren. I am going to run inhibit p through the cycle now to combat any possible prolactin sides from the tren and have an ai on hand too just in case.
 
Odielift said:
Is it possible or even worth stacking dermacrine and a 4-andro product as a test base?? I know trest is the best out there but I’ve also heard that can cause prolactin issues when stacking with tren. I am going to run inhibit p through the cycle now to combat any possible prolactin sides from the tren and have an ai on hand too just in case.
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Tren = prolactin
Test = estrogen

Prolactin and estro = boobs

Caber or prami for prolactin and an ai for estro.

No you need test to run tren
 
Chados said:
Tren = prolactin
Test = estrogen

Prolactin and estro = boobs

Caber or prami for prolactin and an ai for estro.

No you need test to run tren
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I know you need a test base with tren, but I was talking about Tre3t, from what I’ve read everyone says that’s the best test base out there but I’ve also read that it’s not a good combo with tren. I’m going to run inhibit p from the get go for prolactin, and have ai on hand, but I’m stacking tren with epistane so there shouldn’t really be any need for an ai till PCT except for bad reaction, correct?? Or is my research terribly wrong??
 
well isn't it funny how a nor-test, like trest is touted as a test base? nor test meaning "not test".....

at small doses it may behave a little like test but this stuff is more like tests evil twin..

don't get me wrong trest is my hands down favorite thing out there... but its not really for newbs.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
well isn't it funny how a nor-test, like trest is touted as a test base? nor test meaning "not test".....

at small doses it may behave a little like test but this stuff is more like tests evil twin..

don't get me wrong trest is my hands down favorite thing out there... but its not really for newbs.
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Yeah exactly and that’s what I’ve read too, so think I’ll wait till I have another few cycles under the belt before I tackle that evil bas***d

Any thoughts on stacking dermacrine and 4-andro though??
 
personally I think its a waste of your time..
I would just reduce the total androgen load if your feeling lethargic. and that's the real reason we use a test base. to keep you from falling asleep at the wheel.. while I do like epi-andro at high dose im not so sure it will help do much unless your really trying to lean out. save the dermacrine for PCT... just run your inhibit-P and go to our board sponsor PRE to grab any of the research items your missing.

tell em ole rippy sent ya..!
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
personally I think its a waste of your time..
I would just reduce the total androgen load if your feeling lethargic. and that's the real reason we use a test base. to keep you from falling asleep at the wheel.. while I do like epi-andro at high dose im not so sure it will help do much unless your really trying to lean out. save the dermacrine for PCT... just run your inhibit-P and go to our board sponsor PRE to grab any of the research items your missing.

tell em ole rippy sent ya..!
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So you reckon run something like..

Epi 40mg 6 weeks
Tren 100mg 6 weeks (found source that does 50mg per tab)
Inhibit p, cycle assist and taurine through out

PCT
Nolva 20/20/10/10 (should I up that if I’m stacking)
Dermacrine through out
Ai starting third week and tapering off for 2 weeks
Cycle assist through out.

Look good to you or am I missing anything??

And thanks bro really appreciate the help
 
I would start the derma after a couple weeks off cycle. but that's me, some guys like to start their test boosters right away.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
I would start the derma after a couple weeks off cycle. but that's me, some guys like to start their test boosters right away.
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Yeah I’ve seen different opinions on that some say to start straight away others say to say run it like your ai and let the serm do its work for a week or two. Personally I started my test boost with my serm on my last cycle and it worked well for me so probably comes down to what works best for each individual.

Everything else look good in the stack in your opinion?? Anything missing??
 
Most don't understand stacking 19nors, therefore I wouldn't...
 
Why wouldn't you run real gear? PHs are awful, both in possible side effects and results. I ran few..15 years ago..when there were a few good ones, but after using real gear (and how ****ty PGs are now) Is never not pin.
 
Why wouldn't you run real gear? PHs are awful, both in possible side effects and results. I ran few..15 years ago..when there were a few good ones, but after using real gear (and how ****ty PHs are now) Is never not pin.
 
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