pantera101
Banned
I might start waiting a little later for my first dose of CS.I like to get it in quickly for the blood pressure and lipids though.I'm only taking 10mg's of m-drol too.So one pill a day.
Havoc Cycle+Shedding Prevention(fingers crossed)
- Thread starter LeeN
- Start date
LeeN
Member
cool, let me know if you can tell any difference
pantera101
Banned
I will,but i'm skeptical to if it matters or not.I'm already responding so well that I just can't see room for improvement.I love m-drol at 10mg's!!!Strong with low sides.I don't see why people go to 20.
LeeN
Member
Cycle Update
Update
First day @ 30 mg. Body is still responding positively to the compound thankfully. During the first couple of days I reported of some major scalp itching. Well, that has subsided for the most part, but I still get little fits of itchiness for no reason whatsoever.
Starting Weight: 214.0
Day 7 weight: 216.8
This could very well be attributed to a big increase in calories, but I have gained strength as well.
No libido loss, in fact I wake up in the middle of the night quite often at a full salute which is occasionally taken care of by my girlfriend when she is over and in a good mood, otherwise I am left to my own devices :-( .:icon_lol:
No back pumps yet, but tonight I began to feel a slight "cramp" feeling underneath my scapula, but subsides as soon as I finished the rep. could this be my first glimpse of the dreaded back pump? I donno
No shedding. I know it doesn't generally start till the last leg of the cycle, but I know alot of guys are really concerned with this potential side effect, so I am just trying to shed some light on it because it is something that concerns me as well.
Bacne has become an issue with some tumor-like pimples showing up on my back as of late. I scrub my back very well each time I shower too.
Thanks
LeeN
Update
First day @ 30 mg. Body is still responding positively to the compound thankfully. During the first couple of days I reported of some major scalp itching. Well, that has subsided for the most part, but I still get little fits of itchiness for no reason whatsoever.
Starting Weight: 214.0
Day 7 weight: 216.8
This could very well be attributed to a big increase in calories, but I have gained strength as well.
No libido loss, in fact I wake up in the middle of the night quite often at a full salute which is occasionally taken care of by my girlfriend when she is over and in a good mood, otherwise I am left to my own devices :-( .:icon_lol:
No back pumps yet, but tonight I began to feel a slight "cramp" feeling underneath my scapula, but subsides as soon as I finished the rep. could this be my first glimpse of the dreaded back pump? I donno
No shedding. I know it doesn't generally start till the last leg of the cycle, but I know alot of guys are really concerned with this potential side effect, so I am just trying to shed some light on it because it is something that concerns me as well.
Bacne has become an issue with some tumor-like pimples showing up on my back as of late. I scrub my back very well each time I shower too.
Thanks
LeeN
LeeN
Member
Tonight was "light" shoulder and heavy legs night since I skipped out on Thursdays night's normal workout due to a chinese food buffet mishap, but I am back now.
A little stiff today and have been more sweaty in certain areas than usual. Mainly some sweating problems. I was sitting in an algebra class last week and I could just feel my ass sweating away, even though I wasn't sweating anywhere else. Kinda odd for me.
It's late and I am sore.
edit: I forgot to mention that my temperament has certainly changed. Shorter "fuse" as of late
A little stiff today and have been more sweaty in certain areas than usual. Mainly some sweating problems. I was sitting in an algebra class last week and I could just feel my ass sweating away, even though I wasn't sweating anywhere else. Kinda odd for me.
It's late and I am sore.
edit: I forgot to mention that my temperament has certainly changed. Shorter "fuse" as of late
LeeN
Member
Day 14 weight:218.0 lbs
I made a mistake and entered in the wrong weight for when I started. The actual starting weight was 214 lbs. I was all excited thinking I packed on 7 lbs in the first week, but I guess not
sorry guys. So, that has been a total of 4 lbs in 2 weeks.
2nd day @ 40 mg
I added another 10 lbs to my dumbell shoulder press last night. I keep surprising myself with the strength increase.
I haven't had any back pumps or calf pumps.
For the first time, last night I had some libido issues when it came time to do the deed with my girlfriend. I had no problem getting an erection, but couldn't keep it/ stay in the mood.
Needless to say, she wasn't too happy about everything and got upset with all of the things I am putting in my body lately.
I was actually able to perform later on that evening, but sex was not the same as it usually is.
I am kinda distraught right now, but will continue to finish the cycle.
LeeN
I made a mistake and entered in the wrong weight for when I started. The actual starting weight was 214 lbs. I was all excited thinking I packed on 7 lbs in the first week, but I guess not
sorry guys. So, that has been a total of 4 lbs in 2 weeks.
2nd day @ 40 mg
I added another 10 lbs to my dumbell shoulder press last night. I keep surprising myself with the strength increase.
I haven't had any back pumps or calf pumps.
For the first time, last night I had some libido issues when it came time to do the deed with my girlfriend. I had no problem getting an erection, but couldn't keep it/ stay in the mood.
Needless to say, she wasn't too happy about everything and got upset with all of the things I am putting in my body lately.
I was actually able to perform later on that evening, but sex was not the same as it usually is.
I am kinda distraught right now, but will continue to finish the cycle.
LeeN
pistonpump
Banned
yah, around week 3 is where i noticed the drop off in libido. The first two weeks for me were really crazy horny sex machine type weeks 
dawaro
Member
For me the back pumps didnt start until the third week. If you get them you will know. They will affect your lower back. For me they feel almost like a strain but they are gone too quick to be a strain.
Remember libido is the desire, not the function. Week three is also when I lost mine, and I mean lost it. The monkey has benefited greatly, I cant tell you the last time he got a beating...
pistonpump
Banned
:lol: :hammer:
dawaro
Member
How much did you end up increasing your calories? I read an interesting article yesterday in my daily browsing on the topic of caloric excess. The writer stated if you are 180#'s and want to be 200#'s you need to eat as though you were 200. I think I am going to give it a try and see how it works.Day 14 weight:218.0 lbs
I made a mistake and entered in the wrong weight for when I started. The actual starting weight was 214 lbs. I was all excited thinking I packed on 7 lbs in the first week, but I guess not
sorry guys. So, that has been a total of 4 lbs in 2 weeks.
LeeN
If you run the numbers on a 20 cal/pound diet at 180#'s you would need 3600 calories, at 200#'s it would be 4000.
LeeN
Member
Yes, the function is most definitely still there, however when sex stops feeling good, I'm going to lose the erection and henceforth loss of libido.
As for the upped calories, I know for certain I am not getting 4000. I believe I am getting in between 3200-3300. I am trying to gain as little fat as possible, so I know my muscle gains will not be what they could be.
dawaro
Member
Here is a copy of my post from another thread:
"This is just my opinion but I think people get too tied up with the idea of a "clean" or "dirty" bulk. I am starting to believe a bulk is a bulk, you are either in a caloric excess or you arent. The only real difference is the physical amount of food you can take in at a specific calorie intake. Clean = more food for the same calories. It seems too often people use the term "dirty bulk" to describe gorging. I have tried both clean & dirty foods but at the same calorie intake and have had the same results. In fact when caloric intake is real high, like now @ 5000/day, I find it impossible for me to eat the physical amount of clean food to meet that so I have to increase my fat intake. Like I posted before I try to do it with dairy and olive oil/fish oil but it is still a chore.
Focus more on meeting your 2g of protein per pound of body weight and the target calories and let the rest fall into place. Do not be affraid to increase your fat. Your body sees lean muscle as a bad thing because it is going to require more calories to maintain. If your fat intake and/or storage is low the body is more reluctant to add the lean mass. This is one of the reasons some people are hard gainers, they naturally have low body fat and high metabolism so the body almost refuses to add mass.
Just my 2 cents..."
Too me it doesnt make sense to put your body through a cycle and not get all out of it you can. It is a whole lot easier to cut body fat than it is to add muscle...again just my 2 cents.
SOLARUS
Member
well, an all-out steroid-induced bulk is just bad for you. for me, my blood pressure shoots up, i look rather bloaty, and my cardio endurance goes way down. also i am generally fatigued...these factors make me want to approach mass gain more slowly, as does the workplace-mediated appearance change limits...
in a perfect world, i'd bulk way up and shred down afterwards, but that yo-yo has big drawbacks...
as i get older, serious bulking is more con than pro...
dawaro
Member
While I have yet to do a cycle that I could say was an all out bulk (my largest cycle gain was 8lbs) when I have tried to add weight I have found that slowly returning to maintenance calories has always taken the fat off without any extreme measures. My biggest gain from an individual period was 16lbs while doing the "Squats & Milk" routine. That put more weight on me than either of my ph cycles. After doing it for two months I reduced my calories at a rate of 300 a week for the next 3-4 weeks to get back down to my maintenance level and saw significant decreases in body fat at each step. I naturally carry about 13-14%.
I agree that an all-out bulk isnt the best thing for you. Like I said before I think people confuse that with a reason to gorge on food. I think even in a bulk there has to be calorie targets.
Right now I am studying the Anabolic Diet as a future option. One of the items that is covered in the book is that excess carbs will cause you to feel fatigued. Seems to be in line with what you are describing.
LeeN
Member
Yes, It seems that some of my friends use this time as an excuse for a gluttonous good time. I have a very hard time doing that to myself since I lost about 50 lbs from diet change alone.
So, I can't help but be skeptical of putting my calories @ 4000+ per day even at my current weight.
SOLARUS
Member
well, the fatigue i feel is from carrying 260-280lbs around for any length of time - it's just exhausting, and i get short of breath way too easily.
dawaro
Member
Say hello to the back pumps. Get ready because you are in for a wild ride. I cant say the severity to which you may have them but I would look at adding some taurine to help with them.
I know what you mean about the appetite, I dont know what it is about the weekend but mine always drops off. I have to set the alarm on my watch to remind me it is time to eat.
LeeN
Member
Yeah, I took some earlier and my back was fine after that.
the most cruddy thing about loss of appetite today was that I went to a friend's bbq where I was planning on getting a few extra calories in my system via pork ribs. Well, I got there and was only able to stomach about 5-6 baby backs. Kinda disappointing
pantera101
Banned
Thats been happening to me too.I have been wondering if the designers are causing this.
LeeN
Member
Well that's not what I wanted to hear considering I am already molding my next cycle (10/10/10 m-drol) off your current log.
pantera101
Banned
I liked that cycle.(it's now done)I will either go to 20 in week 3,or just do 2 weeks next time.I didn't gain too much in the last week,but thats when my appeitie started to come down.I have heard others say superdrol killed their appetite.I was fine at first though.I almost quit after week 2,but stuck with it when I seen my rack deads go up 40 lbs from previous week.Looking back thats exactly what I should of done.Then i'd be left wondering what if though.I will prob do 2 weeks next time.Either 10/10 or 10/20.That will be a while though.Havoc's next!
LeeN
Member
Wow, that almost sounds too good to be true...short and sweet huh. I will be hitting you up for some cycle advice soon enough via pm if you don't mind??, but the 10/20 is tempting.
pantera101
Banned
No problem.It is tempting.Short on time with a short easy pct,and a short break.I would wait longer than recomended(6 weeks)personally to start another.But that still beats a minimum of 12 weeks off after a 4 weeker.Some do 3 weeks and still respond though.I didn't and my appetite left me. :sad: If you feel like you're still responding,I wouldn't quit at week 2.I had an idea though that I was done.Maybe if I went to 20 the gains would of came back.But who knows?Like I said,I have heard others say their gains slowed after week 2.The reason people do 3 weekers with m drol is cause most agree that gains are pretty much nonexistant after that point.Maybe mine and others point is after week 2.
NeedMassNow
New member
Seems to me you guys have way too many concerns about sides, Why dont you just Pulse the Havoc? Get the gains, skip the bad sides, granted it will be slower gains, but nevertheless you will get them without any sides (libido, acne, hair loss, and back pumps) you might still get the short fuse because of the "rebound" effect experienced on "off" days... Just a thought.
NMN
NMN
LeeN
Member
I am thinking about making today my last dose of havoc and cutting the cycle short(3wks)
I am getting to the point where I am having trouble getting out of bed in the morning. I am basically dragging ass in all aspects of life except the gym. I don't know if it was the best idea to start this cycle with finals about to begin, but thats just poor planning on my part.
I am also continually making gains though and that is where the dilemma is.
Tempted to cap off the cycle with 2 weeks of m-drol @ 10/10 ??
thats just one of the crazy thoughts running through my head right now.
SOLARUS
Member
nothing gets my ass dragging like superdrol. i'm like a geriatric bear in december on the stuff.
pantera101
Banned
I wasn't thinking I realy had lethargy from the m drol during cycle,but today was day 2 off,and I was noticeably more energetic.I don't think I would cut it short if you're still gaining.I also see your point though.Like you said,bad planning.........You live and learn though.
Also I did gain a little at the end of my cycle,and even a lb since cycle if you haven't read my log.
Also I did gain a little at the end of my cycle,and even a lb since cycle if you haven't read my log.
pantera101
Banned
Pulsing is a weird idea that I heven't been sold on and probably never will is why I choose not to pulse.The sides I have gotten that interered with life was crazy intense tear drop cramps.Other than that,I haven't had any life interfering or physically changing sides.