Hair loss questions and answers

Dio

Member
The purpose of this thread is provide central locaton for hair loss questions. If anyone asks I will answer them to the best of my ability.

Some early points to remember:

An androgen DOES NOT have to convert to DHT to cause hair loss.

Unless you do something about it, hair loss from androgens is likely permanent.

There are more things that work than minoxidil and finasteride (but these two will make a big difference for most people)

If you are prone to hair loss then using 1-test or any DHT precursor is a BAD idea.
 
You can buy it at minoxidil.com among other places. It will require a prescription (because of the retin a), but I think they are doing online consultations again. It will run you $20 for the consult.
 
I wonder if 5% spiro, night/day time minoxidil and nizoral will reduce the localized effects of 1-t to any great degree? What do you think DIO? Also do you know how much is absorbed into the scalp by Dr. Lee's %5 Spiro cream?
 
I really dont know If Im prone to hairloss or not. My dad has lost most of his hair, there are some bald males on his side. None really on my mom's. 200mg of 5aa/day didnt cause any thinning, that was over a year ago.

Either way, Id like to protect my hairline. Better safe than sorry.

What are 'the best' preventative methods for a one testosterone cycle?
 
I really dont know If Im prone to hairloss or not. My dad has lost most of his hair, there are some bald males on his side. None really on my mom's. 200mg of 5aa/day didnt cause any thinning, that was over a year ago.

Either way, Id like to protect my hairline. Better safe than sorry.

What are 'the best' preventative methods for a one testosterone cycle?

What are 'the best OTC' methods?

One last question:
Ive read a lot of reports where 1test users report no hairloss on their first cycle, but definate signs of hair loss on their second. It seems like 1test (or converted DHT) is in your system , or at least the scalp, for quite a while.
How long is 'safe enough' before trying another cycle? I waited a year after 19Nor/5aa/4AD, just to be cautious.

Thanks
BigVrunga
 
LCSULLA said:
I wonder if 5% spiro, night/day time minoxidil and nizoral will reduce the localized effects of 1-t to any great degree? What do you think DIO? Also do you know how much is absorbed into the scalp by Dr. Lee's %5 Spiro cream?
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Out of all of that stuff spiro has the best chance of making a difference -- especially if used 2x/day. I think it would definitely reduce and possibly elminate the loss associated with 1-t. It's still a risk though.

Nizoral might help -- since it likely prevents hair loss through a couple of mechanisms. It's a cheap add so I usually recommend it.

I used to think minoxidil wouldn't make a difference, now I'm not sure. Some of it's actions could help, but it would not be enough on it's own.

I have no idea how much spiro Dr. Lee's formula actually delivers to the scalp.
 
BigVrunga said:
I really dont know If Im prone to hairloss or not. My dad has lost most of his hair, there are some bald males on his side. None really on my mom's. 200mg of 5aa/day didnt cause any thinning, that was over a year ago.

Either way, Id like to protect my hairline. Better safe than sorry.

What are 'the best' preventative methods for a one testosterone cycle?

What are 'the best OTC' methods?

One last question:
Ive read a lot of reports where 1test users report no hairloss on their first cycle, but definate signs of hair loss on their second. It seems like 1test (or converted DHT) is in your system , or at least the scalp, for quite a while.
How long is 'safe enough' before trying another cycle? I waited a year after 19Nor/5aa/4AD, just to be cautious.

Thanks
BigVrunga
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For a steroid cycle that including anything but test or 4AD, there currently is no OTC treatment that will make a big difference.

Folligen might help and so might minoxidil, but if you're really concerned about it, go the extra mile and buy some spiro.

The reason why people show hair loss on later cycles is that androgens speed up what was already going to happen. For example say you're 23 and you were going to suffer from MPB but it would bot start until you're 27. Now by using a powerful androgen you have jumpstarted the process early. So you were eventually going to lose that hair anyway but now you lost it faster.

However, I do think that there is something to be said about the effects building over time. It might take a certain amount of exposure to the androgens to cause hair loss and you might avoid it by spacing cycles out and/or keeping them short. This is pure speculation though, but it is supported by some anecdotal evidence.
 
Dio,
I'm going to the doctor tomorrow to get prescriptions. I am going to get one for the 5% spiro and for some Nizoral. For Minoxidil, should I just get the regular, the xandrox or what? Should I get some for the day time and the kind with retin-a for night? Would getting the xandrox be necessary if I'm getting the Spiro?

Also, non of these have any systemic effects that I would have to worry about, right?

I don't really have too much thinning right now, I just want to keep it where it's at. I can tell it's starting and I want to do something about it before I look like my older brother.

Any help you can give me would be much appreciated.
 
I'm assuming that your doctor has idea that will be requesting these things, so you should probably be prepared.

If you intend to order from minoxidil.com, I think all you need is a diagnosis from your doctor that you suffer from hair loss. He may prescribe nizoral and the retin-a with no trouble but the spiro will probably require some convincing since most docs don't know about it being used for MPB.

If you're not planning on using finasteride, then I'd recommend getting xandrox day and night. If you are getting finasteride (your doc might even suggest this since it's FDA approved) then you can get by with minoxidil day and night. You might not need spiro yet, but you could always just use it on yoru frontal hairline to prevent it from going anywhere. If you can swing it it's a good idea, since the earlier you get to the stuff the better.

A very small percentage of people experience systemic effects from minoxidil. It's unlikely that you will be one of them, but I think one of the symptoms is a rapid heart rate -- so you'll have no doubt whether or not you're feelin it. So, I wouldn't worry about it, but it never hurts to know what the possibilities are.
 
1. Nizoral 2% shampoo

2. Topical Spirnolactone 2%

3. Azelaic Acid 5% + Minoxidil 5%

4. Polysorabte 80 Shampoo

How does this combo look ?
 
Looks pretty good to me, but I don't expect much from polysorbate 80 other than cosmetic effects.
 
Dio,
Thanks for the input. I'm not sure which route I'm going yet. I might just have him refer me. Since I really am just trying to prevent any increase in loss and maybe regow slightly, if he can just prescribe me a 5% minoxidil 5% azelaic acid topical, and get the Nizoral, do you think that would be enough?

Also, about 4% of the aa is absorbed systemically. Do you know of it causing any problems. I won't use finasteride or anything where I have to worry about systemic sides if I can help it.
 
haunted_0 said:
what change can i expect to see while using them ?...

i am starting to bald in the back of my head ....
Click to expand...

You should be happy with your results since that area responds best to all treatments. Depending on how far along you are, you can expect slowing/stopping of hair loss and increased hair density and regrowth.
 
PLer said:
Dio,
Thanks for the input. I'm not sure which route I'm going yet. I might just have him refer me. Since I really am just trying to prevent any increase in loss and maybe regow slightly, if he can just prescribe me a 5% minoxidil 5% azelaic acid topical, and get the Nizoral, do you think that would be enough?

Also, about 4% of the aa is absorbed systemically. Do you know of it causing any problems. I won't use finasteride or anything where I have to worry about systemic sides if I can help it.
Click to expand...

5% minoxidil is available OTC, I'm not sure if you'd need a script for a mixture with aa since aa is also available that way. So you would really need a script for nizoral and retin-a if you're going to use a "night" version of minoxidil.

I think that combo would probably be enough if you're not really experiencing anything. You can always add more later.

I wouldn't worry about the systemic aa. It's not really enough to cause any real sides unless you're really sensitive.
 
Dio said:
If you are prone to hair loss then using 1-test or any DHT precursor is a BAD idea.
Click to expand...

Not that bad idea. 1-test is androgenic, but it's not that highly androgenic either. It has an anabolic/androgenic ratio of around 2/1 and, hence, there are worse ideas like 4-diol, for instance, which has 1/1 (as test) or even lower.
 
Dio, thanks for this thread, you already advised me to take 5% Spiro over at BB.com, but now im seeing things like Azelaic Acid 5% + Minoxidil 5% . All I was planning on taking for my M1T cycle was the 5% Spiro, and OTC 1% Nizoral shampoo. Is this not enough? Im going to run 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on, and then 2 weeks of PCT again, and thats it.
 
Dio said:
If you are prone to hair loss then using 1-test or any DHT precursor is a BAD idea.
Click to expand...
How do you know if you are prone to hair loss? Are you talking about the mothers father thing? Because if you are, i have never seen a study on that.
 
My best stack so far in my 9 years of Balding:

DMSO in 2% Rogaine (Oz Brew light) 2 x day
MSM Shampoo Once daily
3 grams oral MSM

Will be adding Nizoral 1%
 
HammyAbeer said:
My best stack so far in my 9 years of Balding:

DMSO in 2% Rogaine (Oz Brew light) 2 x day
MSM Shampoo Once daily
3 grams oral MSM

Will be adding Nizoral 1%
Click to expand...

Do you mean MSM as in the supplement MSM that you take in pill form?
 
Neurotic - have you taken 1-test before??, despite 1-test better anabolic/androgenic profile, it causes more hairloss than 4AD. The bulk of 1-test feedback confirms this. There are some who don't lose hair and they are the lucky ones.

And the androgenic potential in the A/A profile is only concerned about seminal vesicles and ventral prostate in rats - absolutely nothing to do about hairloss!. This is a common misconception of the A/A profile.
 
LIFTER23 said:
Do you mean MSM as in the supplement MSM that you take in pill form?
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Yep, You could buy it in bulk from Black Star and make your own shampoo and caps.

Some folks put the MSM in the Oz Brew, but I believe MSM will penetrate without the DMSO anyway and the yellow msm make a hell of a stain when put in the brew. (Wasted a bottle)
 
HammyAbeer said:
Yep, You could buy it in bulk from Black Star and make your own shampoo and caps.

Some folks put the MSM in the Oz Brew, but I believe MSM will penetrate without the DMSO anyway and the yellow msm make a hell of a stain when put in the brew. (Wasted a bottle)
Click to expand...


Not to familular with "Oz Brew"
 
I have read about this procerin stuff. It seems pretty inexpensive. Do you know if there is anything legit to it?
 
vicmack777 said:
How do you know if you are prone to hair loss? Are you talking about the mothers father thing? Because if you are, i have never seen a study on that.
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Oh, my god, it's not that complicated! It's dead easy, you just have to look at your hairline and/or crown and you will definetely be able to tell (unless you are blind, of course) whether or not you are prone to hairloss ...
Forget about all that mothers father thing, you just have to look at yourself in a mirror and you will know.
 
neurotic said:
Oh, my god, it's not that complicated! It's dead easy, you just have to look at your hairline and/or crown and you will definetely be able to tell (unless you are blind, of course) whether or not you are prone to hairloss ...
Forget about all that mothers father thing, you just have to look at yourself in a mirror and you will know.
Click to expand...


Well Im 23 and I havent starting balding yet, I feel like my front might have thinned a tiny bit, but that could just be me being paranoid, because my girlfriend scratches my head all the time and shes always saying how she thinks Im never going to go bald, I think she would be able to tell by looking that close if I was thinning.

So are you saying Im not prone to it just because I havent noticed anything yet?
 
MarcusG said:
Neurotic - have you taken 1-test before??, despite 1-test better anabolic/androgenic profile, it causes more hairloss than 4AD. The bulk of 1-test feedback confirms this. There are some who don't lose hair and they are the lucky ones.

And the androgenic potential in the A/A profile is only concerned about seminal vesicles and ventral prostate in rats - absolutely nothing to do about hairloss!. This is a common misconception of the A/A profile.
Click to expand...

If you don't rely on A/A ratio in order to know the extent to which an AAS is androgenic, care to tell me what you rely on? Anecdotal reports? Sorry, to me, anecdotal reports aren't any sort of evidence to demonstrate anything...
If you have studies which demonstrate that 1-test is more androgenic than test, post them please.
By the way, those taking 1-test have surely experienced more hairloss than those taking 4-diol, but bear in mind that they have also experienced more anabolic effects, so it's just a matter of proportion. Had they lowered their 1-test intake so that they got the same anabolic effect as with taking 4-diol they would have experienced less hairloss issues than with 4AD for sure.
 
LIFTER23 So are you saying Im not prone to it just because I havent noticed anything yet?[/QUOTE said:
Of course, if you were prone, at 23 you'd already have very pronounced hairlines and/or a crown with weak hair.
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neurotic said:
LIFTER23 So are you saying Im not prone to it just because I havent noticed anything yet?[/QUOTE said:
Of course, if you were prone, at 23 you'd already have very pronounced hairlines and/or a crown with weak hair.
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See, thats why Im half tempted to not get anything for my hair, just to see if I have anything to worry about, but there are only 2 outcomes to that,
A. I don t lose anything and Im lucky cuz IM not prone
B. I lose some and its irreversable damage

I dont know if I want take that chance, I think Ill just get the spiro 5% and nizoral 1% to play it safe.
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