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Hair Loss Prevention

Is the only downside to buying a comb with fewer lasers that you will have to spend more time using it because the coverage area is less? A comb with 8 lasers isn't inherently better than one with 6, it just means you will have to spend more time combing with the 6-laser one, correct?

Right. More lasers just ensures better coverage.

1. Whenever I apply my minoxidil (5% solution made by Kirkland), it leaves the hair in the region kind of dry sticky for the rest of the day. This isn't a problem for the nighttime application, but it bothers me for the AM application. Does anyone else notice this, and is there anything that can be done to prevent it?

Yes, wet a towel and squeeze it out until its damp. Then, *gently* rub it through your hair ONLY. Try not to touch the scalp. This will serve to wipe the minoxidil solution off your hair, leaving it on your scalp which is where it needs to be.

This method works even with the 15% Xandrox solution, which is very sticky.

It's pretty important to apply that minoxidil 2x per day - give the 'damp towel' method a try it works for me.

BV
 
Have been searching around for a Laser brush. Found these:

http://cgi.*********/HAIRPRO-Laser-C...QQcmdZViewItem

Compare Prices on Hairpro Laser Brush

I didn`t really understand the information about this comb. It say that it is 36 LED stimulators, not how maney beams there is.

Lasertron Hair Brush - Hair Growth Rejuvenation System

I didn`t figure out how maney beams there were on this either.

Laser Brush "Buy it now" page

This one with 8 beams looked like to be the best buy, opinions on this anyone?

Thanks

Hey bro,

Stay away from combs that use 'LED' lights rather than lasers. The laser that has been proved to assist hair growth is a 650nm, 3-5mW laser diode. That's what you need to use.

Best route is to get the comb from the AmazingLaserComb guy or build it yourself...anything priced higher than what he's offering is a rip off.

I've seen a few products which look pretty cool, like a 'laser hat' that you can just put on your head for a few minutes a day, etc. Those are interesting, but you really shouldnt be spending more than $100 - $120 or ~$50 if you buy the parts and build it yourself.

BV
 
Hey bro,

Stay away from combs that use 'LED' lights rather than lasers. The laser that has been proved to assist hair growth is a 650nm, 3-5mW laser diode. That's what you need to use.

Best route is to get the comb from the AmazingLaserComb guy or build it yourself...anything priced higher than what he's offering is a rip off.

I've seen a few products which look pretty cool, like a 'laser hat' that you can just put on your head for a few minutes a day, etc. Those are interesting, but you really shouldnt be spending more than $100 - $120 or ~$50 if you buy the parts and build it yourself.

BV

hey, just wondering, did you get the laser diodes online or would it be possible to purchase in a store? Thanks

Rob
 
Can someone tell me where I can get that 5% spiro, people keep referring to "Custom" what is this custom?

I am in Canada is anyone has some Canadian links.

I am thinning and receeding at either side not in the middle of my forehead. I had some results from dosing about 3 x 320mg saw palmetto but would like to try some topical shampoo / treatments on these areas. I have read the posts but if someone can explain that would be good.

Thanks for any responses

Neoborn
 
Can someone tell me where I can get that 5% spiro, people keep referring to "Custom" what is this custom?

I am in Canada is anyone has some Canadian links.

I am thinning and receeding at either side not in the middle of my forehead. I had some results from dosing about 3 x 320mg saw palmetto but would like to try some topical shampoo / treatments on these areas. I have read the posts but if someone can explain that would be good.

Thanks for any responses

Neoborn

you can get them from dr. lee's minoxidildotcom
 
i suppose i'll chime in and introduce myself. my name is alex and i have asian and italian blood in me. it seems that my italian side has got the best of me as my dad had mpb around 20 and my 28yr. cousin on my mom's side is bald. Anyway, after using superdrol and epi. i shedded a sh*tload even though i knew i was prone to mpb, that was my first mistake. sadly it wasn't really until my second cycle of AAS that i noticed i was losing hair. i've always kept my hair short, using a #3 clip. it wasn't until i grew my hair out that i wasn't able to really comb it without seeing my scalp. so at the age of 22, i'm now a NW 2.5 or 3 with diffused thinning on top, which really doesn't do much for my self esteem, except that I look fine with a shaved head. I recently started using the Big 3. I started nizoral 2% about 2 months ago, oral finasteride @1.5mg about a month ago (still need to see a derma to get a prescription), and minoxidil 5% foam 2x a day about 15 days ago. I've had increased shedding when i started finasteride, and some shedding from minox, which i think is normal. Currently, about 5-8 hairs come out with each shower i take, which might be normal? When i run my hands during the day through my hair, i usually find 0-1 strand of hair in my hands, which seems to be a good sign. I'll probably use the big 3 for a year or two to see if i get any good results. I hope that when i get my prescription, i'll get proscar and cut it up into 4. i think in the future, i'll get either kirkland minox for $25-30 for a 4month supply to save money since i know this can add up. Or I might opt for dr. lee's xandrox later in the future. I don't think i can expect too much, but i hope i can keep the hair that i have, which is my goal. the last thing i want to opt for is a HT, which can add up to about 25-30grand for 7000-9000 grafs and a good HT doc.

-Alex

p.s. I really like this thread and the stuff that many of you have contributed especially bigvrunga. i think i've read through this whole thread about two times so far.
 
Hey second2none and welcome to AM.com!:) Yeah we're all just desperately trying to save our hair in here lol...I'm 100% Italian, every male on my Father's side started expressing genetic MPB in their 20's,as did my younger brother and I when we were about 22.

Im 31 now and thanks to the things we've all been discussing in this thread, I still have most of my hair at least for now. Many of us have seen at least some improvement - the big thing to remember is that right now there are three key elements to inhibiting the genetic expression of MPB:

1.) Keep it from falling out by inhibiting androgens at the scalp, and reducing the inflammatory response that occurs when DHT binds to the follicle receptor

2.) Stimulate hair growth using proven methods (or anything that might work :)

3.) Provide an optimal environment for hair growth through proper hygene and nutrition.

It sounds like your on the right track with the protocol you've started...just keep an eye on the finesteride dosage Ive read you really shouldnt need more than 1mg to see optimal results. (more if using extragenous anabolics that convert to DHT via 5AR)

The shedding you've seen when starting minox and finesteride is normal, and usually takes 3-4 weeks to subside. You should start seeing some improvement in your hair growth in about 3-6 months...just remember that consistency is key!

Im right there with you I'd like to avoid HT if possible - if it comes to that I may just have to adapt to a chrome dome. Ideally, the treatments we've been discussing in this thread will hold out until more permanent treatments, like gene therapy become a reality.

BV
 
On another note, I came across this site:

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which has a Dr.Razack selling a natural topical DHT inhibitor that includes many of the natural compounds that have been suggested throughout this thread:

"Azelaic Acid, Vitamin B6, Zinc acetate, Niacin, Saw Palmetto extract, Ginkgo Biloba extract and Proanthocyanidins from grape seed extract. "

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It's interesting, and at only $20 a bottle isnt too expensive. However, this quote from minoxidil.com is interesting:

"In vitro experiments demonstrate the addition of vitamin B6 and zinc to azelaic acid allows azelaic acid to be used in small quantities to inhibit the synthesis of DHT in the skin.

Zinc, however, forms insoluble salts when it reacts with minoxidil/azelaic acid, rendering the active ingredients ineffective.

No credible studies relating to the absorption dynamics of topical vitamin B6 have been found.

Exhaustive research has been undertaken. Chairpersons of pharmacology departments from numerous universities have generously shared their research data. We cannot find information concerning the efficacy or safety of topical B6 as it relates to hair regrowth. in conjunction with azelaic acid. Without this vital information, it's irresponsible and irrational to add B6 to the minoxidil/azelaic acid solutions.

Therefore, azelaic acid in amounts that are effective for more than three standard deviations (>99%) of patients has been added to Xandrox formulations (a 5% concentration).


Richard Lee, M.D.
"

Ideally, I'd like to source all the compounds I use in bulk and create my own solutions. That would really save a bundle in the long run!

BV
 
BV how many showers do you take a day. I normally took one before i started minox, but now i end up taking two. One in the morning, then let my hair dry, then apply minox. Then once again at night, then apply minox again an hr before bed. Am i doing this wrong? should i just be taking one shower a day?

also i was wondering what you used for a daily shampoo and conditioner when you arent using the regrowth formula?

Alex
 
BV how many showers do you take a day. I normally took one before i started minox, but now i end up taking two. One in the morning, then let my hair dry, then apply minox. Then once again at night, then apply minox again an hr before bed. Am i doing this wrong? should i just be taking one shower a day?

also i was wondering what you used for a daily shampoo and conditioner when you arent using the regrowth formula?

Alex

I usually take 2 showers a day - one in the AM before work and one in the PM after the gym. I usually use some kind of salon-grade thickening shampoo and conditioner (my girl usually picks that up for me) for the 1st shampoo of the day. EOD in the AM I'll also use the Regrowth Treatment Shampoo.

On alternate days in the evening, Ill use a Pyrithione Zinc shampoo. (Head & Shoulders, etc).

The best thing to do is apply the treatment shampoos as soon as you get in the tub, then let it sit on your head and rinse right before you get out. It's an easy way to make sure its on there for a good 5-10 minutes.

BV
 
Can someone tell me where I can get that 5% spiro, people keep referring to "Custom" what is this custom?

I am in Canada is anyone has some Canadian links.

I am thinning and receeding at either side not in the middle of my forehead. I had some results from dosing about 3 x 320mg saw palmetto but would like to try some topical shampoo / treatments on these areas. I have read the posts but if someone can explain that would be good.

Thanks for any responses

Neoborn

I attached a couple interesting articles; one summarizing hair treatment options, the other describes LLLT. Just recieved an eight diode laser brush today.
 

Attachments

Brief update:

Kind of feel a little disillusioned. The hairs on my temple are slowly darkening and growing (they used to be a light blonde but now match the color of my hair) but my scalp seems to have no progress.

I suppose that it is impossible to tell but every day when I see what my hair looks like, it looks like there is no difference. Fortunately, it isn't getting worse.

Usually I find about 5-6 hairs on my hands in the shower and its now less than three. I wonder if it is progress or coincidence. Running my hands through my hair comes up with no hair but then again, I never did that before so I have no basis of comparison.

I said that it would take eight months but I can't help but feel a little impatient. It has only been 34 days so I have another 210 or so to go to see if this project is a bust or not. I remain optimistic, I just needed to vent a little.
 
I said that it would take eight months but I can't help but feel a little impatient. It has only been 34 days so I have another 210 or so to go to see if this project is a bust or not. I remain optimistic, I just needed to vent a little.

Normally it will take a good 3-4 months until you can verify that your protocol is indeed working for you. You are using these products:

I also have apple cider vinegar (couldn't find Bragg so I got Heinz instead) that I will take two slightly overflowing tablespoons twice daily. I will take 320 mg of Saw Palmetto a day (2 x twice daily), 2g of MSM, and 2 x Vitamin B complex.

Plus the laser comb, correct? It really does take a good 3-4 months of consistent treatment to start seeing an effect. Also keep in mind bro - you mentioned your hair loss is due to seborrheic dermatitis so a genetic predisposition to shed hair due to DHT is not your only problem.

LLLT should help in the long run according to what ive read about it (check out the PDF's in steve777's post), you just need to give it time.

For all our efforts, sometimes nothing works and you have to be prepared for that. Most of us with MPB will end up losing our hair eventually regardless of what we do to try and save it - Im just hoping that's 55 not 35 :)

BV
 
azeleic acid is a dht inhibitor i believe (want to run test/deca, so i cant use finasteride)....any research done on this?
 
azeleic acid is a dht inhibitor i believe (want to run test/deca, so i cant use finasteride)....any research done on this?

If you do some research on AA, you'll find that there are only a few professional studies supporting its DHT inhibitive qualities - but a ton of anecdotal evidence:

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You may want to take more precaustions than just AA on cycle though. This 'Crinagen' product looks interesting as well, and is inexpensive:

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According to this study the combination of ingredients in it could work quite well:

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You should also look into Spironolactone and Ketoconozole. (Nizoral)

BV
 
If you do some research on AA, you'll find that there are only a few professional studies supporting its DHT inhibitive qualities - but a ton of anecdotal evidence:

Invalid Link Removed

You may want to take more precaustions than just AA on cycle though. This 'Crinagen' product looks interesting as well, and is inexpensive:

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According to this study the combination of ingredients in it could work quite well:

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You should also look into Spironolactone and Ketoconozole. (Nizoral)

BV


you're a big help...reps...i use ketoconozole/nizoral daily and i've considered spiro but i dont like the idea of having to apply it twice a day every day and it making ur hair smell bad
 
you're a big help...reps...i use ketoconozole/nizoral daily and i've considered spiro but i dont like the idea of having to apply it twice a day every day and it making ur hair smell bad
the spiro you get from online retailers generally is unusable...but if you brew your own (i made my current batch from a dilute solution of 5% cream i got from a website) it can be a piece of cake. just dont use alcohol to prepare it, as that will likely cause systemic action.

fluridil is another good option.
 
the spiro you get from online retailers generally is unusable...but if you brew your own (i made my current batch from a dilute solution of 5% cream i got from a website) it can be a piece of cake. just dont use alcohol to prepare it, as that will likely cause systemic action.

Same Old has the idea here - these are products you'll need to use continually so finding a bulk source and doing a little homebrewing is a great way to ensure acceptable costs and high quality.

BV
 
the spiro you get from online retailers generally is unusable...but if you brew your own (i made my current batch from a dilute solution of 5% cream i got from a website) it can be a piece of cake. just dont use alcohol to prepare it, as that will likely cause systemic action.

fluridil is another good option.

how do i start homebrewing? need some help...
 
BigV,

Can you clear this up for me?

1. Receeding at either temple

2. Thinning in that area as well.

Would like the best root to stop DHT, regrow and thicken hair, what products would you recommend?
 
Can you clear this up for me?

1. Receeding at either temple

2. Thinning in that area as well.

Would like the best root to stop DHT, regrow and thicken hair, what products would you recommend?

How old are you bro? Is the thinning isloated to the temple region or is it spreading out to the top front of your head as well?

I think the first steps for anyone to take is to start using Nizoral Shampoo and LLLT EOD. This requires minimal initial investment and both are proven methods for fighting hairloss.

Im interested in that 'crinagen' product in the above posts but dont know anyone who has tried it yet. The combination of ingredients leads me to think it might be pretty effective as a topical DHT blocker, without the hazards of concerns of a potent anti-androgen like Spironolactone.

If after 3-6 months of using the above products you arent seeing any improvement, its time to move onto more permanent solutions like 5% minoxidil and finesteride. I would recommend you start using these as a final step because once they start regrowing hair, you'll have to keep using them permanently and that requires a financial commitment as well as a disciplined regimen that you simply have to adhere to for these products to work.

BV
 
how do i start homebrewing? need some help...

I dont think any of us have really tried yet...but my favorite solutions (the stuff from Dr Lee - Im not sure what's in Spectral DNC maybe CEDoudes can chime in here) use ethyl alcohol, propylene glycol, tocophenol (vitamin E), and a small amount of phosphoric acid as their base solution.

That stuff is relatively easy to source. Find some bulk minoxidil and azelaic acid, saw palmetto extract, etc and you're on your way...

BV
 
hair loss = Insulin Resistance / Insulin Resistance = High grain/sugar diet.


So there you go guys. For those of you who still have a significant amount of hair left, CUT DOWN the grains if you want to keep your hair. It is far more effective than Rogaine and much less costly. However, you must be warned of the side effects of a low grain diet - you will achieve far higher levels of health, and decrease your risk of diabetes, heart attacks, and cancer. If, and only if, you are willing to accept such side effects in exchange for keeping your hair.
 
1. 34yrs old

2. Not spreading out but back towards the back of my head ....it's not really bad but would like to do something about it before it gets worse.

3. What's LLLT?

How old are you bro? Is the thinning isloated to the temple region or is it spreading out to the top front of your head as well?

I think the first steps for anyone to take is to start using Nizoral Shampoo and LLLT EOD. This requires minimal initial investment and both are proven methods for fighting hairloss.

Im interested in that 'crinagen' product in the above posts but dont know anyone who has tried it yet. The combination of ingredients leads me to think it might be pretty effective as a topical DHT blocker, without the hazards of concerns of a potent anti-androgen like Spironolactone.

If after 3-6 months of using the above products you arent seeing any improvement, its time to move onto more permanent solutions like 5% minoxidil and finesteride. I would recommend you start using these as a final step because once they start regrowing hair, you'll have to keep using them permanently and that requires a financial commitment as well as a disciplined regimen that you simply have to adhere to for these products to work.

BV
 

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hair loss = Insulin Resistance / Insulin Resistance = High grain/sugar diet.


So there you go guys. For those of you who still have a significant amount of hair left, CUT DOWN the grains if you want to keep your hair. It is far more effective than Rogaine and much less costly. However, you must be warned of the side effects of a low grain diet - you will achieve far higher levels of health, and decrease your risk of diabetes, heart attacks, and cancer. If, and only if, you are willing to accept such side effects in exchange for keeping your hair.

In my best Dr Evil voice... "Riiiiiiiiiiight."
 
hair loss = Insulin Resistance / Insulin Resistance = High grain/sugar diet.


So there you go guys. For those of you who still have a significant amount of hair left, CUT DOWN the grains if you want to keep your hair. It is far more effective than Rogaine and much less costly. However, you must be warned of the side effects of a low grain diet - you will achieve far higher levels of health, and decrease your risk of diabetes, heart attacks, and cancer. If, and only if, you are willing to accept such side effects in exchange for keeping your hair.

Do you have any accepted studies or at least anecdotal evidence to back this up?
 
"Another study from Johns Hopkins shows that men who lose their hair early usually have high blood levels of insulin like growth factor-1, a hormone that the body produces in response to high blood sugar levels. Women who have a condition called polycystic ovary syndrome suffer from male-pattern baldness, have high blood insulin levels and can often be cured by taking medication to lower blood sugar levels and restricting foods that raise blood sugar the most, such as those with added sugar, bakery products, pastas and fruit juices. Eat root vegetables and fruits with other foods, and eat plenty of vegetables, whole grains, beans, seeds and nuts."


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In my opinion hair loss can be stopped or slowed down tremendously through just following a diet of no grains / sugar.

Hair loss is a sign of imbalance in the body brought on by grains/sugar and other toxins (drugs and some supplements)

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Yes hair loss is genetics, but they claim heart disease and some other disease are genetics as well. Your only prone to these if you follow the same life style has the parents.
 
While some of the ideas in those articles I totally agree with, engival, I dont think that insulin resistance is the sole cause of hair loss. Male pattern Baldness is also a trait exhibited in other primates. And considering it afflicts ~50% of the human male population regardless of diet - I really do think a genetic sensitivity to DHT is a primary culprit.

Issues with insulin may play a part, and most of will agree that staying away from sugars and eating only whole foods is ideal for optimum health but Androgenic Alopecia is most certainly a genetic condition that can not be controlled simply through diet.

In my opinion hair loss can be stopped or slowed down tremendously through just following a diet of no grains / sugar.

Hair loss is a sign of imbalance in the body brought on by grains/sugar and other toxins (drugs and some supplements)

Certainly some hair loss is due to nutritonal factors, poor health, etc - but Male Pattern Baldness has a much more complex array of factors involved than simply amount of carbs in your diet.

I've run VLC (very low carbohydrate) and keto-type diets for extended lengths of time, and saw no improvement in the condition of my hair. However, did see a big improvement when i started taking a small dose of finesteride, using LLLT (low level laser therapy), and using higher-strength minoxidil solutions.

I think the insulin theory has weight, and a good diet should be followed by anyone trying to surpress MPB symptoms because its essential for healthy hair, but it definitely isnt the only factor involved.

BV
 
Here's a pretty good article that discusses many factors of hair loss. Genetics, DHT, and insulin sensitivity are all discussed:

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From this article:

Mechanism of male pattern baldness



While the precise mechanism which underlies androgenic alopecia is unknown, a high level of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is crucial in initiating the process. DHT is, ironically, a hair growth stimulator. Testosterone is synthesized from pregnalone which is formed from cholesterol. DHT is formed from Testosterone with the conversion from testosterone to DHT being mediated by 5-alpha reductase. There are two subtypes of 5-alpha reductase and drugs which block one type may not block the other.
While androgens (the general class of male hormones which includes testostrone and DHT) levels may be similar in men who have male pattern baldness and those who have hair, people with more 5-alpha reductase or a greater density of DHT receptors may be more vulnerable to the effects of DHT. Surprisingly, men with male pattern baldness have, on average, significantly lower levels of total testosterone, though they did not have significantly lower levels of unbound androgens in their blood.[3]
Spiking androgen levels, caused by intense weight training, sudden weight loss, taking anabolic steroids or other synthetic androgens and other causes can promote the balding process. The vast majority of anabolic steroids contribute to hairloss, since most anabolic compounds break down to form DHT at some point.





How DHT causes hair loss is hotly debated.



American research tends to focus on DHT, DHT receptor density in the scalp and 5-alpha reductase levels in the scalp as causes of baldness.


Japanese research may cover these topics but also is more likely to cover the increase in sebum (scalp oil) production caused by DHT in the scalp, and the increase of Pityrosporon ovale, a pathogenic yeast which has been linked to dandruff and eczema, and which feeds off of sebum. Issues related to diet are also more likely to be covered. Possibly this is because male pattern baldness has increased very sharply in Japan since the end of World War II along with an increase in fatty foods and average height, focusing public attention on various lifestyle differences.


Most pharmaceutical treatments which stop or slow the balding process work by limiting the creation of DHT. In ideal situations this may cause a person's hairline to revert to what it was a year ago (since follicles which were resting but healthy will be active again), though it is difficult to reverse more than a year of hair loss without surgery.


Since sex hormone binding globulin is reduced by high insulin levels, reducing insulin levels should also increase levels of sex hormone binding globulin. Higher SHBG binds to testosterone, preventing its conversion to DHT. Less free testosterone means that less testosterone will be converted into DHT, even if total testosterone levels are very high.


Statistically, men who are bald are more likely to be insulin resistant and more likely to suffer cardiovascular disease. There seems to be a correaltion between male pattern baldness and metabolic syndrome, though androgens are not shown to cause heart disease or metabolic syndrome\diabetes directly. High insulin levels seem the likely link between the two conditions.



Chronic infection with a diseases such as Chlamydia, exposure to pathogenic mold, and high levels of stress can exacerbate androgenic alopecia. How this happens isn't always clear. Some types of stress can cause decreases in plasma levels of sex hormone binding globulin, among other responses.





Evolutionary theories of male pattern baldness



Gorillas evolved anatomically enlarged foreheads to convey increased status and maturity.


There is no consensus regarding the details of the evolution of baldness. Most theories regard it as resulting from sexual selection. A number of other primate species also experience hair loss following puberty, and some primate species clearly use an enlarged forehead, created both anatomically and through strategies such as frontal balding, to convey increased status and maturity.


One theory, advanced by Muscarella and Cunningham, suggests baldness evolved in males through sexual selection as an enhanced signal of aging and social maturity, whereby aggression and risk-taking decrease and nurturing behaviours increase.(1) This may have conveyed a male with enhanced social status but reduced physical threat, which could enhance ability to secure reproductive partners and raise offspring to adulthood.


In a study by Muscarella and Cunnhingham, males and females viewed 6 male models with different levels of facial hair (beard and moustache or clean) and cranial hair (full head of hair, receding and bald). Participants rated each combination on 32 adjectives related to social perceptions. Males with facial hair and those with bald or receding hair were rated as being older than those who were clean-shaven or had a full head of hair. Beards and a full head of hair were seen as being more aggressive and less socially mature, and baldness was associated with more social maturity.

I think it plays a role - but it is by no means the only role that should be examined when combating MPB.

BV
 
makes Sense BV, its a good idea to have a good idea of course though

id rather eat well than take drugs to keep my hair...if i start losing my hair then oh well, my hair doesnt define me as a person anways.
 
id rather eat well than take drugs to keep my hair...if i start losing my hair then oh well, my hair doesnt define me as a person anways.

Eating well is key, but I dont think its the only thing that will save your hair if you're prone to MPB my friend. However, I wouldnt risk my health for vanity either. I'd be a pretty good looking bald guy - a concept Ive been slowly acclimating to over the years:)
 
i'm looking at 11-oxo/3AD for my next cycle as it seems to mild with hairloss. Even though it seems to be mild, i still want to take full precaution with my hair. I'll be using fin 1.25mg, minox 5%, and nizoral 2%. And hopefully plan to add the following:

Some questions I have are:

1) How is spiro anygood with such a short half-life(85min/1.4hrs) even if applied 2 times a day?

2) Has AA been proven to block DHT on the human scalp? AA in theory is a good DHT blocker, but the only knowledge was test tube trials.

-Alex
 
1) How is spiro anygood with such a short half-life(85min/1.4hrs) even if applied 2 times a day?

2) Has AA been proven to block DHT on the human scalp? AA in theory is a good DHT blocker, but the only knowledge was test tube trials.

Hi second2none -

With both AA and Spiro, there is more anecdotal then clinical evidence to prove their efficacy when it comes to blocking DHT.

I've only seen one quoted study referring to Azelaic acid blocking DHT at the dermal level. The following article should address your question:

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From that article:

I reached out to my colleagues and Drs. Shaprio and Cooley responded with one of the better answers given to me. The focus of the quoted study was on in-vitro (in the laboratory) studies and there are no invivo (in patients) studies. The finding in the laboratory is interesting, but it is a big jump to answering it for people like you who seem to research things in great depth. I would warn most of my readers that there is a long stretch to findings in the laboratory and responses in patients. we have seen cancers killed in the laboratory and no impact on patients. Certainly safety issues are pre-eminent and drive much of what I recommend for my patients.

“I think Dr Lee is referring to this old in vitro data. I’m skeptical azelaic acid is a good in vivo topical 5AR inhibitor and even if it is”, as Dr. Shapiro said, “there’s still the systemic DHT that must be addressed. I doubt that azelaic acid does much for hair growth. ”

Read the citation summarized below from British Journal of Dermatology, 1988 Nov;119(5):627-32.

Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid, by Stamatiadis D, Bulteau-Portois MC, Mowszowicz I., Laboratoire de Biochimie B, Hopital Necker-Enfants-Malades, Paris, France.

The effects of zinc sulphate and azelaic acid on 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin were studied using an in vitro assay with 1,2[3H]-testosterone as substrate. When added at concentrations of 3 or 9 mmol/l, zinc was a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase activity. At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase; inhibition was detectable at concentrations as low as 0.2 mmol/l and was complete at 3 mmol/l. An additive effect of the two inhibitors was observed. Vitamin B6 potentiated the inhibitory effect of zinc, but not of azelaic acid, suggesting that two different mechanisms are involved. When the three substances were added together at very low concentrations which had been shown to be ineffective alone, 90% inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity was obtained. If this inhibition is confirmed in vivo, zinc sulphate combined with azelaic acid could be an effective agent in the treatment of androgen related pathology of human skin.

As for the half life of Spironolactone, remeber that its quoted half life pertains to Sprio in vivo, not transdermally. I'd guess the half life would be longer as there would be some time-release action present, as its the nature of transdermal administration. I think it would also depend of factors like humidity, skin condition, etc.

Notice that the quote study for AA blocking DHT in the skin references its action in combination with zinc sulfate...makes me wonder how effective that Crinagen product may be I'm leaning toward giving it a try.

Also,you may want to look into Fluridil (Eucapil):
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From what Ive been reading it's half life is longer than Spironolactone and it's safer as well (it can't be absorbed systemically). Plus, it was specifically designed to combat androgen activity in the scalp.

Its quite expensive, but might be a viable option to use on-cycle.

Hope that helped,
BV
 
I've decided to go the all natural route for hair regrowth. I've been reading a hair regrowth forum and realized how much healthier and just about as effective the natural route compared to non like fina/duta/minox. I dont know if its been posted in this thread but Immortal Hair has a great natural regimen that seems to be working wonders for him. Heres a link Invalid Link Removed

for the past 2 months ive been using Revita regrowth shampoo morn followed by high quality conditioner & nightime followed by Hairgrowthessentials' Essential Oils for hair regrowth at night time. Along with antioxidants/msm/fish oil & plenty of water. Also L-Arginine 3g-6g which boosts NO levels, promotes circulation, and aides in the release of HGH.
Nitric Oxide relaxes the follicles which is important in hair follicle health.
Since ive started, Ive noticed my scalp has turned from being dry/shiney to looking very healthy & hydrated(no more shine) I havent noticed any regrowth yet but it usually takes longer that 2 months i hear 7-8 for real regrowth. Anyways the overall health of my scalp has greatly improved which will aide in regrowth. #1 priority for regrowth should be a healthy hydrated scalp. Sorta like plants need good soil for growing.

Will soon start the Immortal hair regimen along with a Scalp Roller.
Also found this very interesting thread you guys should take a look.
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The Hairgrowthessential oils can be found here.
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Its a great product which I would advise anyone to add to their regrowth regimen.

I will update after following this regimen for a bit.

Goodluck.
 
Would like to add that I have mostly full head of hair, its just somewhat thinned from AAS use. Scalp is only somewhat visable, but since the balding shine has gone it seems nowhere near as visable.
 
Great post AnabolicMonkey and thanks for the links. Proper nutritional supplementation and diet is of course a key factor in maintaining a healthy scalp and providing an optimal environment for hair growth.

However, in a person genetically prone to MPB the above protocol may result in less hair falling out, or retaining hair for a longer period of time - but not substantial regrowth for people who are looking to do that. In people with Androgenic Alopecia, they're genetically programmed to start losing hair and as of right now the best way to fight that genetic expression is to inhibit androgens at the scalp, provide an optimal environment for hair growth and to stimulate new growth by using proven methods like LLLT and minoxidil.

The article that mentioned 'slightly damaging' the scalp and causing it to heal in such a way where new follicles are created is very interesting and could be the start of something major. But I'd imagine that unless the sensitivity to DHT is somehow suppressed eventually those follicles are going to react to the body's androgen production in the same way - by stopping production of hair.

IMO, the only 'cure' for genetic MPB is to find a way to switch off the gene for it which hopefully isnt too far away. Until then, all we can do is provide treatments for the condition hoping that they will work. For anyone trying to save their hair, exploring every option -keeping health and safety first of course- is your best route to holding onto your hair.

The supplementation regimen you recommended is a great one, but other proven methods for hair regrowth should not be ignored if someone expects to suppress the genetic expression of the MPB gene.

BV
 
Hey guys, very informative thread this is. been reading/searching thru it on and off for over a week.

I just want to block DHT during my up coming test/deca cycle. I get the impression AA and Spiro 5% is a good choice for this. I have a local source for Nizoral 2% but still havent found a website that sells both AA AND Spiro (i dont think i need minox btw Im not suffering from MPB but perhaps a slight thinning after my previos four cycles)

Im assuming theres no harm in asking for an AA/Spiro source??

Im really keen to get on with my cycle but wont do it without protecting my hair first

Thanks in advance for any assistance.. :)
 
i dont think i need minox btw Im not suffering from MPB but perhaps a slight thinning after my previos four cycles)
the only thing i'll address is this comment you made above.

if your hair thins when you use steroids - you've almost assuredly got the gene, regardless of the pattern the hairloss takes on your scalp. guys w/o the gene can use as much mega-androgenic gear as they want and their hair will not thin. look at Jay Cutler - classic example of a guy w/o the gene....uses more juice than almost anybody, but still has a mane like a horse...a borderline insane, freak of nature horse with a napoleon complex, but a horse nonetheless :)
 
the only thing i'll address is this comment you made above.

if your hair thins when you use steroids - you've almost assuredly got the gene, regardless of the pattern the hairloss takes on your scalp. guys w/o the gene can use as much mega-androgenic gear as they want and their hair will not thin. look at Jay Cutler - classic example of a guy w/o the gene....uses more juice than almost anybody, but still has a mane like a horse...a borderline insane, freak of nature horse with a napoleon complex, but a horse nonetheless :)


God damn it. lucky bugger. ok well that still leaves the question of an AA source? (altho the word source is a bad word on here) minoxidol.com doesnt sell straight AA does it? is there a site that sells both AA and spiro? for now would be good to at least block DHT on cycle...
 
Just ordered Crinagen after reading the study. We'll see. Thanks for your dedication on this subject, Big Vrunga.
 
yeah i also just picked up 4 bottles of crinagen for $53 for on-cycle use.

also picked up 3month supply of 5% spiro, which is hurtin the bank account.

From the British Journal of Dermatology, 1988 Nov;119(5):627-32.

After looking at the study of AA on inhibiting DHT, it looks like zinc and b6 were combined. From that study, it looks like zinc contributed to most of the DHT being inhibited and not so much the AA, which makes me believe that crinagen would be a good choice.
 
if your hair thins when you use steroids - you've almost assuredly got the gene, regardless of the pattern the hairloss takes on your scalp. guys w/o the gene can use as much mega-androgenic gear as they want and their hair will not thin. look at Jay Cutler - classic example of a guy w/o the gene....uses more juice than almost anybody, but still has a mane like a horse...a borderline insane, freak of nature horse with a napoleon complex, but a horse nonetheless

+1 there - if your hair thins on cycle, you've got MPB. Of course, there are varying degrees of genetic DHT sensitivity - you can see this naturally as some guys start losing hair in their 20's, while others may start much later in life. It's Androgenic Alopecia in both cases though.

And just an update - a few posts back I'd mentioned that since I switched from the 15% Xandrox solution to 12.5% Minoxidil only, I noticed an increase in shedding. Well, over the past few weeks this shedding has continued to increase...at first I thought it may have been just due to the increase in minoxidil concentration but now Im not so sure - the other morning I lost a *lot* of hair in the shower.

I noticed as the shedding increased, the dryness and irritation of my scalp increased as well. I stopped using the 12.5% minox 2 days ago, and since then I havent lost a hair.

I dont know what caused it, but it does not seem like this product agreed with me at all. The ingredients of the 12% solution are nearly identical to the 15% Xandrox - with the exception that it contains no AA and I believe more phosphoric acid. Im wondering if this increase in phosphoric acid led to the scalp irritation and possible shedding increase. Perhaps dropping Azelaic Acid was a bad idea as well...

Either way, Im going back to my previous routine of 15% Xandrox Daily with 5% Minoxidil/.025% Retin-A at night. That seems to work very well for me.

Poison and second2none - please keep us updated with your thoughts on the Crinagen, I may order a bottle to test as well.

Thanks,
BV
 
I'll try to take pics before and after. I'm thinning, but if i can stop it now, I'm cool. If I regrew some, I'd be extatic. i know its not supposed to do that, though.

Pght has caused regrowth at the hairline. I'm just losing too fast elsewhere.
 
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