Hair Loss Prevention

[John Smeton]

So, the Nano shampoo is like minox? Once you start using it you can't really stop right?

which products are recommended to continue using after you start?

is AA

is minox

is spiro

is nizoral

...i mean could one just use AA and minox for a cycle of Superdrol and then discontinue use after the person thinks/feels its necessary.

 

[mtruther]

Yeah, you can stop. You can stop minox, too. But your loss is going to start back up again.

(Well, technically, minox just encourages growth. It really doesn't do much to halt the process of hairloss.)

 

[BigVrunga]

which products are recommended to continue using after you start?

is AA

is minox

is spiro

is nizoral

Minox is the only one that you should stay on, or you'll use the hair that it encouraged to regrow. Spiro,Nizoral, AA are all DHT and/or androgen blockers. They dont encourage regrowth. Theoretically, they would inhibit androgen at the scalp and thus prevent shedding or possibly allowing your hair to regrow naturally if you started early enough, or got real lucky

BV

 

[risend]

I know people shed normally and regrow it, what is considered normal amount of shedding per day? I recall noticing a few strands of hair after rinsing through my head in the shower before it got bad, I guess that is normal right?

Last year I tried prohormones for the first time and after the cycle noticed myself shedding a lot to the point that when I didn't wear something covering my shoulders I could feel the hair drop down on it all day, that and a hell of a lot of hair in my hand when showering. That I know is not normal. I used spiro 5% from customs on my hairlines and crown, along with Nizoral 2% EOD. After a month it stopped and went back to normal. I was very happy and continued for another month or so. Then I stopped using it and I didn't notice shedding so all was good until well 5-6 months later. It started up again out of nowhere, haven't touched prohormones/supplements or even worked out since then. (Hair loss, fat gain, and other stuff kind of derailed me from lifting for a short period) Anyways it was when I started to come back to working out again that I noticed it, so I started to use the spiro and nizoral again. It hasn't stopped my hair shedding, but I am only losing like 5 or so a day from what I can count when applying the spiro and showers. I think its back to normal. What do you guys think?

 

[BigVrunga]

I know people shed normally and regrow it, what is considered normal amount of shedding per day? I recall noticing a few strands of hair after rinsing through my head in the shower before it got bad, I guess that is normal right?

Some studies say 100 - 150 hairs a day is normal, others as low as 35-40. I'd venture to guess it will be different for everyone, and that generally 35-75 hairs a day would be a safe 'normal' range. 100+ does seem a bit high.

When you shampooing your hair its perfectly normal to notice a few strands of hair in your hands. If your hair is in a 'shedding' phase you'd see a little more, other times a little less or none at all. The hair on your head is in a constant cycle of shedding and regrowing. Its when those shedding cycles become longer and the regrowth cycles become shorter and eventually cease that your start noticing your hair thinning out.

If you grab about 100 hairs between your fingers and give them a firm tug, 3-7 hairs coming loose is considered 'normal'. A handful of hair is most definitely cause for concern.

Then I stopped using it and I didn't notice shedding so all was good until well 5-6 months later.

The hormones in your body can take months to completely normalize after a cycle of anabolic drugs. You are obviously prone to MPB genetically, hair starting to shed 5-6 months later could just be the natural progression of your genetic hair loss. Unfortunately, this could have been accellerated by your PH cycle - there's really no hard evidence for that though.

At 20 years old if you are starting to notice your hair thinning, I would start on a Minoxidil/Azelaic/Nizoral acid regimen immediately and continue indefinitely if you want to keep the hair on your head. You *will* go bald eventually unless you jump on the problem asap. You still might lose your hair, but the treatments people have discussed in this thread have shown a lot of promise for reversing/slowing the natural progression of AGA.

However...

I am only losing like 5 or so a day from what I can count when applying the spiro and showers. I think its back to normal. What do you guys think?

5 hairs a day is nothing to worry about. As I mentioned above, unless you can really see your hair thinning in the back/front and your hair line receeding - I wouldnt worry about it.

BV

 

[BigVrunga]

BTW the laser diodes came in today! Should have the plans up for the laser comb in a week or two...

 

[risend]

Thanks for the quick reply, I am going to continue using the nizoral and spiro for 2 more months and then see how things go. I don't want to start using minox yet. No one notices the hair lost except me, so it could be more of a mind thing atm.

 

[BigVrunga]

Thanks for the quick reply, I am going to continue using the nizoral and spiro for 2 more months and then see how things go. I don't want to start using minox yet. No one notices the hair lost except me, so it could be more of a mind thing atm.

Yeah you have to be aware of that and try to look at things objectively. I had a friend with a full, thick head of hair that had convinced himself he was going bald. Yet, he had barely any traces of AGA save for a slight receeding at the temples. I almost had to slap some sense into him

 

[lifted]

Hey guys, just a quick update here on my minox/aa use. Been using for close to 4 months now and ALL my hair is back...cept a tiny bit right in the front...but it's not noticeable much if at all...my temples are fully grown back in. I just got back from a haircut...got it cut really short on top and a bald fade on the sides...now I can really tell that it's all grown in... as George Castanza would say from Seinfield...I'M BACK IN BUSINESS BABAAAAAY!!! :dance:

 

[methusaleh]

CNW's site is down! Anyone know somewhere else to get AA 5%? I did a Google search but most places seem to sell it very weak, like 1%, or they just mention a formula that it is in and they don't specify the amount.

 

[risend]

Hey guys, just a quick update here on my minox/aa use. Been using for close to 4 months now and ALL my hair is back...cept a tiny bit right in the front...but it's not noticeable much if at all...my temples are fully grown back in. I just got back from a haircut...got it cut really short on top and a bald fade on the sides...now I can really tell that it's all grown in... as George Castanza would say from Seinfield...I'M BACK IN BUSINESS BABAAAAAY!!! :dance:

congrats, that sounds like great progress

 

[lifted]

thx risend...

Methusaleh...check out wholesalehairproducts.com or minoxidil.com

 

[rrgg]

lifted - Are you planning to continue the minox? If not, I'd be interested to know if you see hairloss resume. thx

 

[lifted]

lifted - Are you planning to continue the minox? If not, I'd be interested to know if you see hairloss resume. thx

Actually, that is a good question and one that I've also been pondering.

To tell you the truth, I haven't even been using it twice/day as suggested, due to a low budget since I'm back in school at the moment. So I had to cut costs a bit.

What I've been doing, basically, is this:

3 days out of the week: 2 applications/day
2 days out of the week: 1 application/day
2 days out of the week: no application/day

So as you can see, I pretty much got lucky with my dosing protocol and since I still saw good results this way, I'm going to take it down a notch for "maintenance" and apply once EOD....and then I'll see how I fare and possibly discontinue altogether.

Although, if I decide to do more AAS cycles, I may reconsider and dose more often again...so that's pretty much up in the air. I've been off of androgens for 4+ months now, and am really starting to consider quitting using altogether now....but you know how that goes...lol.

 

[stratvox]

always excellent info here

 

[rrgg]

BigVrunga-- If you try the laser comb, I'd be interested to know what you think of it in a few months.

Same for anyone who is trying NANO -- Shock133.

Thanks!!!

 

[BigVrunga]

BigVrunga-- If you try the laser comb, I'd be interested to know what you think of it in a few months.

Same for anyone who is trying NANO -- Shock133.

Thanks!!!

Ive got all the parts I need now, stay tuned for an update...

 

[rrgg]

Ive got all the parts I need now, stay tuned for an update...

This reminds me of that time machine in Napolean Dynamite. Good luck!

 

[Shock133]

This reminds me of that time machine in Napolean Dynamite. Good luck!

I did try the laser comb between my legs like the time machine but all I got was an electric shock and increased ball hair growth....go figure

 

[methusaleh]

Considering adding spiro...

I love the water-regulating effects I keep reading about, but does that occur with topical dosage or do I need to use it orally and/or pinning?

 

[lifted]

Considering adding spiro...

I love the water-regulating effects I keep reading about, but does that occur with topical dosage or do I need to use it orally and/or pinning?

I don't know. But I remember a few years ago when I tried the 5% spiro cream from WHP...I'm thinking I over did it a few times and some of it may have been absorbed systemically into the bloodstream because I would start to sweat like craaaaazy...just pouring out...and that smell...eww. *shivers*

 

[FlyByU]

Important Warning About Topically Applied Spironolactone!! Last week I ordered a bottle of Dr Richard Lee's 2% spironolactone solution from Invalid Link Removed
I applied it to the thinning areas of my hairline the night before as well as the morning of a blood test which included total testosterone and free testosterone. My blood test result came back as well below the normal range :

Total testosterone 5.4 nmol/L (normal range 9.5 - 35)
Calculated free testosterone 123 pmol/L (normal range 225 - 725)
Both my LH and FSH levels were in the normal range at 4 IU/L (range 1-10)

Exactly 3 weeks before I had the above blood test, I also had my testosterone levels tested. The results of this test were as follows :

Serum testosterone 16.1 nmol/L (normal range 12.4 - 34.1)
Free testosterone 53 pmol/L (normal range 31 - 100.0)

As you can see, I was in the low range of normal for testosterone in my first test, however, unlike the second test, I was still within the normal range.
I did not take any other medications or supplements over that 3 week period between the 1st and 2nd blood tests and I have not taken any drugs of any description for more than a year.
Since my T levels have fallen so dramatically in the space of just 3 weeks, I can't think of anything other than the 2% spironolactone solution that could have caused this large drop. My current blood test results shows that my blood T levels are at pre-pubescent levels!

Anyone who is thinking about using topically applied spironolactone, please don't do it. Don't believe the lies you read about topically applied spironolactone not having any systemic effects.
I think it is imperative that anyone using topical spironolactone be monitored closely for systemic side effects and blood hormone level alterations.

 

[BigVrunga]

Thanks for the post FlyByU! Any chance you are getting another blood test in a few weeks? Im sure we'd all be interested to see the results.

Did you experience any side effects of low-testosterone?

Did you tell your Doctor about the spiro use? What did he have to say?

Personally, Ive never noticed any ill effects from topical spiro use, even when used during PCT. If it could have an effect on test levels, perhaps it is an individual case and not a common issue. (Like Finasteride only exhibiting negative effects in ~2% of those who have used it).

Either way, your info is very much appreciated - obviously those deciding to use Spiro should be cautious and opt for bloodwork. You should email your test results to Dr.Lee, perhaps other clients of his have experienced the same effects.

BV

 

[lifted]

You should email your test results to Dr.Lee, perhaps other clients of his have experienced the same effects.

BV

Yes, good idea..email him and see what he has to say about it....good luck and thx for posting.

 

[FlyByU]

Thanks for the post FlyByU! Any chance you are getting another blood test in a few weeks? Im sure we'd all be interested to see the results.

Did you experience any side effects of low-testosterone?

Did you tell your Doctor about the spiro use? What did he have to say?

Personally, Ive never noticed any ill effects from topical spiro use, even when used during PCT. If it could have an effect on test levels, perhaps it is an individual case and not a common issue. (Like Finasteride only exhibiting negative effects in ~2% of those who have used it).

Either way, your info is very much appreciated - obviously those deciding to use Spiro should be cautious and opt for bloodwork. You should email your test results to Dr.Lee, perhaps other clients of his have experienced the same effects.

BV

I used the topical spiro for 8 days before I got my blood test result, then I stopped using it. When my doc gave me the results, I didn't think at the time that my use of topical spiro may have something to do with my low T levels. When I went home I tried to think what might have possibly caused such a dramatic drop in my T levels. I knew that spironolactone is a potent anti-androgen, but had read that when appliled topically it doesn't have any systemic effects.
I now believe that it does because there isn't anything else I was using or taking that could have caused this steep testosterone drop.
I will be having the blood test repeated next week to see if my T levels have returned to normal.
The side effects I had were minimal, which suggests that T levels probably bounce back relatively quickly. Having said that, I'm not prepared to use it again. Sending T levels on a rollercoaster ride cannot possibly be healthy for the endocrine system.
I did email Dr Lee to tell him of my experience and he conceded that his 2% spironolactone may well have caused my T levels to drop and agrees that patients using this product should be monitored closely for hormonal side effects and that more research needs to be done on it. Personally, I think if it found to cause systemic effects in users it should not be sold.
I'm so glad that I had the blood test when I did so that I didn't have to use topical spiro for months not knowing what it was doing to my body. I think now it's important for me to warn other people about its potential side effects.

 

[stu_r]

I used the topical spiro for 8 days before I got my blood test result, then I stopped using it. When my doc gave me the results, I didn't think at the time that my use of topical spiro may have something to do with my low T levels. When I went home I tried to think what might have possibly caused such a dramatic drop in my T levels. I knew that spironolactone is a potent anti-androgen, but had read that when appliled topically it doesn't have any systemic effects.
I now believe that it does because there isn't anything else I was using or taking that could have caused this steep testosterone drop.
I will be having the blood test repeated next week to see if my T levels have returned to normal.
The side effects I had were minimal, which suggests that T levels probably bounce back relatively quickly. Having said that, I'm not prepared to use it again. Sending T levels on a rollercoaster ride cannot possibly be healthy for the endocrine system.
I did email Dr Lee to tell him of my experience and he conceded that his 2% spironolactone may well have caused my T levels to drop and agrees that patients using this product should be monitored closely for hormonal side effects and that more research needs to be done on it. Personally, I think if it found to cause systemic effects in users it should not be sold.
I'm so glad that I had the blood test when I did so that I didn't have to use topical spiro for months not knowing what it was doing to my body. I think now it's important for me to warn other people about its potential side effects.

Appreciate it flybyu. I've been using it for 2 weeks. I do feel that straight after application I feel light headed for a while. Been on Superdrol for those 2 weeks and am a bit diappointed with the results.

You've given me a straw to clutch but I'm stopping it's use as of today.

Will continue with 5% AA/Minoxidil.

Thanks

 

[FlyByU]

The light headed feeling is something I definitely noticed. Toward the end of the 8 days I noticed a drop in energy and libido and more frequent urination, but slower urinary flow. I'd get to your doc and have your total and free testosterone levels checked to see if they have fallen like they did in me.

 

[rrgg]

Since T levels vary a lot naturally, do you think you might be jumping to conclusions?

By what mechanism are you suggesting it reduces T anyway?

 

[BigVrunga]

Since T levels vary a lot naturally, do you think you might be jumping to conclusions?

By what mechanism are you suggesting it reduces T anyway?

It's an androgen receptor blocker - if there were too much Spiro in your system, testosterone (and other androgens, for that matter), would be less effective.

Although there hasnt been much research done on topical Spiro for hair loss - most doctors who have prescribed it to their patients claim that it is generall well tolerated. If the FlyByU's drop in T levels is directly linked to the Spiro use, then perhaps he is overly sensetive to the drug.

However, consider this:

With a 2% spiro solution you are applying 20mg of the drug to your scalp (assuming you apply 1ml of solution 1x per day).

The molecular weight of Spironolactone base is ~417. so that *would* make it possible for it to be absorbed transdermally (<500). However - the skin on your scalp is thicker than any other location on your body, so this would make the bioavailability of any transdermal application there much less effective.

The smallest available dose of oral spiro is 25mg. I think its safe to assume the the oral avaialbility of the drug would be much higher than whatever transderamal abosroption rate is available when applying it in a solution of IPA and PG to the skin of the scalp.

This would make me think that if you *were* negatively affected by topical spiro use, it would be a case where your system is overly sensative to the drug - even assuming a transdermal absorption rate of ~15% you'd be getting ~3mg into your bloodstream.

FlyBU's post does raise some concerns though - Spironolactone is one of the most potent anti-androgens available. I wouldnt want even a few mg's of it floating around my system. If that's the case and you're really concerned about hair loss, I'd rather use finasteride, which only inhibits type-1 DHT receptors, before continual daily use of topical spiro, which binds to every androgen receptor it comes across.

Personally, Ive only really used Spiro while on a cycle of 1-test/4AD, and also throughout PCT. I didnt lose any hair and came out of PCT fine without losing any mass or strength, so I'm assuming that the Spiro did what it was supposed to, without systemic side effects.

After reading this new info - I would be really cautious about using it everyday - and if you choose to a blood test would probably be a good idea.

I'd be really interested to see the results of your next blood test, FlyByU. Thanks for the info and please keep this thread updated.

BV

 

[FlyByU]

Since T levels vary a lot naturally, do you think you might be jumping to conclusions?

By what mechanism are you suggesting it reduces T anyway?

T levels do fluctuate during the day and in relation to many factors, however, it is not normal for T levels in a healthy 30 year old adult man to fall to the level of a pre-pubescent boy. It must be more than just an androgen receptor blocker, because if it only blocked the androgen receptors, I would imagine that there would still be the same level of testosterone floating around in the blood.

 

[FlyByU]

BigVrunga, I massaged the the topical spiro in with my fingertips a little, so it's possible that it got absorbed that way.

 

[BigVrunga]

Aldactone (spironolactone) is a specific pharmacologic antagonist of aldosterone, acting primarily through competitive binding of receptors at the aldosterone-dependent sodium-potassium exchange site in the distal convoluted renal tubule. Aldactone causes increased amounts of sodium and water to be excreted, while potassium is retained. Aldactone acts both as a diuretic and as an antihypertensive drug by this mechanism. It may be given alone or with other diuretic agents which act more proximally in the renal tubule.

From Pub Med:

Spirolactones are aldosterone antagonists which inhibit the binding of aldosterone to the renal mineralocorticoid receptor. These molecules also possess an antiandrogenic effect which could be due, among other possibilities, to a peripheral antagonism of androgens. This hypothesis has been tested in the present study. From in vivo experiments, spironolactone K+ canrenoate appear to inhibit the binding of [3H]5alpha-dihydrotestosterone [3H]DHT to the cytosolic and nuclear receptor of the rat ventral prostate. The doses used are in the same range as those used for demonstrating the antimineralocorticoid effect of these molecules. In vitro incubations and in vitro displacement studies show that spironolactone and K+ canrenoate are respectively about 20 and 100 times less effective than DHT in displacing 50 percent of 5 times 10- minus 10 M [3H]DHT from its receptor. Spirolactones are also able to compete with [3H]DHT for the specific 8 S cytosolic receptor. Neither spironolactone nor K+ canrenoate decreases prostatic 5alpha-reductase activity, even at a concentration as high as 10- minus 5 M. It seems likely that spirolactones, besides their action on testosterone biosynthesis, exert their antiandrogenic activity via a peripheral androgen antagonism.

Accroding to the quotes above, found from brief internet research, Spironolactone is actually designed to block aldosterone, which would result in its diuretic effects and reduce hypertension. It's anti-androgen effects seem to be a result of its affinity for androgen receptors. The pubmed article mentions:

"It seems likely that spirolactones, besides their action on testosterone biosynthesis, exert their antiandrogenic activity via a peripheral androgen antagonism."

I couldnt find any info on Spiro's action on testosterone synthesis though, so Im not sure how it effects it.

FlyByU - did you experience any other of the reported Spiro effects? Diuretic effects, low blood pressure, etc?

BV

 

[FlyByU]

From Pub Med: FlyByU - did you experience any other of the reported Spiro effects? Diuretic effects, low blood pressure, etc?

BV

Read my post in reply Bawbag concerning the side effects I experienced.

 

[BigVrunga]

The light headedness could be a side effect of Spiro, and possibly the frequent urination from its effects as a diruetic. You planning on going back to the doc soon for another checkup?

BV

 

[FlyByU]

The light headedness could be a side effect of Spiro, and possibly the frequent urination from its effects as a diruetic. You planning on going back to the doc soon for another checkup?

BV

The side effects have gone away now, so i'm pretty sure the drug is out of my system. I'll definitely be having another blood test and when I get the results, I'll be sure to let you all know the results.

 

[Dave001]

It's an androgen receptor blocker - if there were too much Spiro in your system, testosterone (and other androgens, for that matter), would be less effective.

But a pure antiandrogen would increase testosterone levels, both free and bound fractions. Spironolactone is a bit more complicated in that regard because it also interferes with testosterone biosythesis. I'm not sure what net effect spironolactone would have on testosterone over such a short duration, but the chronic changes in women who take the drug orally seem relatively small and inconsistent.

The molecular weight of Spironolactone base is ~417. so that *would* make it possible for it to be absorbed transdermally (<500). However - the skin on your scalp is thicker than any other location on your body, so this would make the bioavailability of any transdermal application there much less effective.

Topical absorption of medications is generally greater through the scalp, face, and scrotum, than other sites of application. Also, hair follicles are a very efficient route of transport for many drugs.

After reading this new info - I would be really cautious about using it everyday - and if you choose to a blood test would probably be a good idea.

The guy's story sounds very suspicious to me, especially the alleged response from Dr. Lee. Someone ought to e-mail Dr. Lee to ask whether he even wrote what was claimed. If he were to say that he didn't, then we'd know that the rest of the guy's story was BS.

Rey, F. O., C. Valterio, et al. (1988). "Lack of endocrine systemic side effects after topical application of spironolactone in man." Journal of Endocrinological Investigation 11(4): 273-8.

Abstract: In six healthy male volunteers, the percutaneous absorption of spironolactone was compared with placebo in a double-blind crossover study. The subjects were randomly given either a cream containing 5% spironolactone or placebo to be applied in a randomized sequential way to a well defined skin area equivalent to 55% of body area. [my emphasis] During the 72 h following the application of the ointment, blood levels of canrenone, the major metabolite of spironolactone, have been determined. In order to estimate the systemic antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone, plasma levels of 17-alpha-Hydroxy progesterone (17 alpha-OH-P), Testosterone (pT) and non-conjugated 3 alpha-Androstanediol (3 alpha-diol, metabolite of the active androgen 5 alpha-Dihydrotestosterone or DHT) as well as salivary Testosterone (sT) which relate to the free and active plasma testosterone fraction have also been measured. Urinary levels of canrenone have been determined 48 hours after cream application. No changes in any levels of these hormones have been detected and plasma canrenone levels were undetectable during the 72 hours of topical treatment. Topically administered, spironolactone appears to have only a local skin impregnation.

 

[FlyByU]

Forget the studies, try it yourself and have a blood test before to establish your baseline hormone levels, then use the topical spiro for a few days and repeat the blood test. I'd be very interested to know if others have the same experience that I did. Dave001, I don't know why on earth you doubt what I've written. Go ahead and email Dr Lee. I can PM you my real name. Heck, if you doubt me that much I can even cut and paste both of Dr Lee's responses to my emails.
Please go ahead Dave001 and try Dr Lee's topical 2% spironolactone solution and take the before and after blood test. Post your results here.

 

[FlyByU]

Dave001, how could a pure antiandrogen "increase testosterone levels, both free and bound fractions"?

So, what you're saying is if, for example, I swallowed a 250mg tablet of flutamide (a potent anti-androgen), my free and total testosterone levels would actually increase??

 

[FlyByU]

"The guy's story sounds very suspicious to me, especially the alleged response from Dr. Lee. Someone ought to e-mail Dr. Lee to ask whether he even wrote what was claimed. If he were to say that he didn't, then we'd know that the rest of the guy's story was BS."


You are the only person here who has doubted my story so far. The other people who have responded to my posts thanked me for the heads up! All I'm trying do is to warn people about this product because I don't think it is safe. I will know for sure, however, when I repeat my experiment. I will post results when they're in.

 

[BigVrunga]

Dave001, how could a pure antiandrogen "increase testosterone levels, both free and bound fractions"?

So, what you're saying is if, for example, I swallowed a 250mg tablet of flutamide (a potent anti-androgen), my free and total testosterone levels would actually increase??

I think what he meant was - if you are under the influence of a pure androgen receptor blocker, your body will try to produce *more* testosterone because there is a signal going to your HPTA that says you aren't getting enough. I keep reading that Spiro interferes with 'testosterone bio-synthesis', which would mean it affects testosterone production in some way. If Spiro were in fact the cause of your low test levels, this would be the case.

Topical absorption of medications is generally greater through the scalp, face, and scrotum, than other sites of application. Also, hair follicles are a very efficient route of transport for many drugs.

I may have been mistaken when I assumed that the thick skin of the scalp would inhibit transdermal aborption. However, Im pretty sure that having a lot hair on your head would actually cause a problem for transdermal drug administration. The more a compound gets in your hair, the less is available to go through the skin.
Do you think the sebacious glands in the skin of the scalp would cause a problem for transdermal absorption? Unless the drug were oleaginous - I think Spiro may be.

I'm not sure what net effect spironolactone would have on testosterone over such a short duration, but the chronic changes in women who take the drug orally seem relatively small and inconsistent.

Right - but that's in women, where 70% of their testosterone production is produced by the adrenal glands. (The other 30% being produced by the ovaries) Have there been any studies on oral spironolactone use in men and what biological pathway it would affect in terms of testosterone production? I couldnt find any...perhaps it affects synthesis in the testes the same as it would in the adrenal glands, I dont know for sure.

The guy's story sounds very suspicious to me, especially the alleged response from Dr. Lee. Someone ought to e-mail Dr. Lee to ask whether he even wrote what was claimed. If he were to say that he didn't, then we'd know that the rest of the guy's story was BS.

Why would FlyByU come into this thread and just make up a story about Spiro affecting his testosterone levels? I think he has a legitimate concern. The study you posted is interesting, but:

Abstract: In six healthy male volunteers, the percutaneous absorption of spironolactone was compared with placebo in a double-blind crossover study. The subjects were randomly given either a cream containing 5% spironolactone or placebo to be applied in a randomized sequential way to a well defined skin area equivalent to 55% of body area.

SIX people does not even come close to accurately representing the entire male population, so its not fair to assume that *everyone* who uses topical spiro would not see negative sides. True, most studies have shown that it is 'generally well tolerated' - but who knows how the relatively new treatment for AGA affected FlyByU as an individual.

With a molecular weight of ~400,Spiro *could* get into the bloodstream through the skin. I dont think it would be safe to say that nobody would be affected by this. The percentage may be small, but still *some* people could experience genuinely unpleasant side effects.

BV

 

[John Smeton]

Bv,

do you know if Azelaic acid interfers with tesostrone levels? I dont think it does but i just want your opinion.

also AA is getting into a more serious dht blocker. Ive been using nizoral 1 %.

would it have any effects if i started AA then stopped it?

 

[BigVrunga]

Hey smeton,

I dont think AA would interfere with test levels. Read this:

Invalid Link Removed

Some pretty good info there - although they mention using AA in a combination of 20% (!!) for treating hair loss. I think that would burn like a mother!

You probably would see some effects if you stopped using AA, in the way that you would if you stopped using any DHT blocker. Once you stop blocking the chemical that's causing the problem, you'll resume your natural course of MPB.

I have to stress though bro, if you are losing your hair because of your genetics, you'll have to battle it your whole life, or until they find a suitable cure. Pretty much *all* treatments for MPB will result in the loss of the hair they maintained/helped to regrow if you discontinue use.

BV

 

[steve777]

anyone know where to get 5% AA? CNW no longer carries it on their website.

 

[BigVrunga]

:stick: :blink:

Bro, in addition to the 500 other posts is thread that list suppliers (especially the first one!) :trout: - check out the following sites:

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I'm sure there are others but the above two are used by members of this board and are proven to have quality products.

BV

 

[FlyByU]

BV, do you think there could be any chance at all that Nizoral 2% shampoo could interfere with test levels if left sitting on the scalp for 5mins before washing it off?

 

[BigVrunga]

I suppose there could be a very remote chance of this happening, as Ketoconazole administered orally would lower testosterone levels. However, when you use Nizoral for hair loss purposes, you apply it 1-2 times a week, and its at a 2% concentration.

Highly, highly doubtful that this would harm test levels...

BV

 

[steve777]

:stick: :blink:

Bro, in addition to the 500 other posts is thread that list suppliers (especially the first one!) :trout: - check out the following sites:

Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

I'm sure there are others but the above two are used by members of this board and are proven to have quality products.

BV

Thanks BV. I was aware of these but I domn't think they sell the straigh AA (they contain minoxidil too). CNW sold the straight 5% AA which is what I am interested in finding. I'll research through the posts in this thread some more.

 

[BigVrunga]

Oh sorry bro - I didnt realize what you were asking there

Check out this site:
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Do that, and you wont have to buy it again for a couple years

BV

 

[steve777]

Thanks for the link BV - I'll check it out!!

 

[methusaleh]

Does anyone know where I can get the ketoconazole powder, seeing that CNW is down?