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H.M. Gear's Oxanavar (M4ohn)

Boarder1 said:
Sounds like people are trying to pimp HMgear's crap. Nobody in their right mind would overpay for a product they are hoping is legit. You guys use MuscleTech too?

Pimping - is advertising. I am not advertising anything. Advertising is what Legal Gear Does. I am stating that I believe this product is legit. If I can't credit another supplement company without being accused of advertising or 'pimping' than I don't what to say.
 
Deoudes59 said:
Pimping - is advertising. I am not advertising anything. Advertising is what Legal Gear Does. I am stating that I believe this product is legit. If I can't credit another supplement company without being accused of advertising or 'pimping' than I don't what to say.
Don't sweat it Deoudes - I'll be "pimping" HMGear in a couple days too if I start seeing results from their Oxanavar (see my log for an update on my cycle). While I can't personally vouch for the quality of HM's products, I have read a lot of positive things about them on other boards and I'm willing to take a leap of faith by trying their product. I can vouch for the fact that their customer service sucks and because of that, I didn't order directly from them.
 
Yeah I agree, it's too expensive on their homepage anyway, you can save 15-17$ orderring elsewhere. It goes for the same price as Gasparis. (Not at Kilosports), I don't know why Gaspari is so expensive there. Both should be apx. $59.95. for 90tabs @ 5mg.
 
Hmgear is a very respectable company, and I have no doubts that their products are legit. They are working with some of the best in the industry and have the connections to have products made in a pharmaceutical grade lab instead of someones home chem lab.... Im not pimping their procuts because there are chepaer alternatives and undergound connections, but they are one of the most reputable palces to do business with right now.
 
fujimi442 said:
hmgears oxanavar just showed up at my front door, I need your guys opinions,,,,what do you think would be better, running it at 10mg ed for 45 days or 15mg ed for a month?
Im 5'11 166 lbs and about 7-8% body fat. Ive got a couple m1t, 4ad , and 1-t cylces under my belt if that helps. Thanks, alot, ill let every one know how it goes, Ive got some before pics and a vid clip or two also.


15mg for a month gets my vote - depends on what you are trying to do. If its for mass, M4OHN won't compare with M1T.
 
I have to vouch for HM Gear as well. There products are top knotch and the brains behind the products are some of the brightest in the industry.
 
Then why arent the brains behind those products doing something new, not that there is anything wrong with M4OHN, foremestane or 4oht deca but those have been out on the market for awhile now, I dont see anything new.

After seeing a few of these response emails I have still yet to see a straight answer for direct questions.
 
I agree as I would like to see them introduce some new compounds to the industry. I will say this about there products. They are some of the cleanest products when it comes to IM administration. There 1-T and your 1-T are the only ones I trust to take IM. Good job to the both of you.
 
Their probably not doing anything new, cos if it works then it will be banned too!!

It's just so sad. Gotta ask all the positive feedback we've been getting about m4ohn, arn't most of these people using hm gears stuff. If so, what's the problem here??
 
Most are using Sledges' M4OHN I believe, which is very legit
 
TheManGuy said:
Gotta ask all the positive feedback we've been getting about m4ohn, arn't most of these people using hm gears stuff. If so, what's the problem here??

HM only released their M4OHN 1-2 weeks ago. So yeah, almost all the feedback has been for DS brand M4OHN which was released about 2 months ago.
 
ya the response they(hmgear) gave to me was not very clear, they were kinda shying away from a definite answer to my questions
 
Deoudes59 said:
15mg for a month gets my vote - depends on what you are trying to do. If its for mass, M4OHN won't compare with M1T.

thanks, Im not looking to bulk, just stay around the same weight, but while droping a little fat and adding a little muscle. I just saw some people werent seeing results untill 1.5-2 weeks in, so i didnt know if running it a little longer would be a better idea, thanks though. I'll probably bump it up to 15mg ed tomorrow, 10mg in the morning 5mg at night.
 
I think HM gears m4ohn has been out for awhile now, and the only reason I am saying I think their products are great, is because they have the cleanest facilities of all these underground companies..... when you get something from them, you know it is sterile.
 
nsruffryder34 said:
I think HM gears m4ohn has been out for awhile now, and the only reason I am saying I think their products are great, is because they have the cleanest facilities of all these underground companies..... when you get something from them, you know it is sterile.

Are you serious? Just because they show a guy holding a beaker on their website, does not mean they manufacture anything. From what I can see they use contract manufacturers and label lick like most other 'underground' companies.
 
I would agree, I have no idea what their facilities look like, nor do I care, but for a company to say they dont test their powder, especially when it comes to IM, then who cares how sterile it is. you have no idea what you are actully using has anything at all or what it even is.
The guys there are smart enough to know they need to be testing their products and or powders, it is not the consumers job to do it. this is one of the main points for banning PHs, if teh industry policed themselves then the govt. wouldnt have to.

They all need to stop being so cheap, spend the $800.00 to get it tested and then threads like this woundt even be a concern.
 
I agree with Sledge, if the company wasn't in high regard - I wouldn't be buying anything from them. That's the only thing im basing in on.
 
90 caps for 59$ @ 5mg is the best deal currently going for M4OHN.
If the product is legit, and I believe it is, I see no reason not to support them.
 
Well relying on word of mouth is what led to the ridiculous m-dienolone crap. No good lab testing - buy at your own risk.
 
I have a new finding that may shed a little light on HM Gear's M4OHN.

On Sledge's M4OHN, I had no hairloss at all (dosed: 6mg-10mg).
Now, on HM Gears' I'm have experienced a little shedding in the past couple days (@ 20mgs). Now It early to draw conclusions but, correct me if i'm wrong - there should be no DHT side effects whatsoever - regardless of the dose.

This tells me there might be something else other than M4ohn in Oxanavar.

I will be monitoring this closely. I suggest anyone who made the switch from Sledge's product to HMs to do the same. Or anyone who has been using Oxanavar.

It's early to draw a conclusion here, but its concerning nonetheless.
I am going to post this in a couple other threads.

(Again, The only reason I'm using Oxanavar is because the USPS lost my my order of Designer's M4OHN, and I had to order again from a place that could over night it to me)
 
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Thanks for the heads up Rogue-

17a-methyl nandrolone, hmmm... Is this like a Methyl-Nor Androdiol of sorts? In that case it would be bad news with propecia - I would think. Tell me if I'm not on the right track here.

What kind of DHT conversion would you expect from methyl nandrolone?

Oxanavar has been nonetheless successful thus far. So I'm not ready to jump ship on it by any means. The hair thing I may be imagining - I don't know. I'm going to shower two times a day (like normal) and see what goes down.

Successful or not, sledges M4OHN powder offer is not one I'm going to refuse.

I'll wait for Sledge to chime in here....
 
Deoudes59 said:
I have a new finding that may shed a little light on HM Gear's M4OHN.

On Sledge's M4OHN, I had no hairloss at all (dosed: 6mg-10mg).
Now, on HM Gears' I'm have experienced a little shedding in the past couple days (@ 20mgs). Now It early to draw conclusions but, correct me if i'm wrong - there should be no DHT side effects whatsoever - regardless of the dose.
That's pretty disturbing. Hairloss is something that I'm very scared of and since I'm already receding, I really can't afford to accelerate the process.

It's sounding like we should really get HMGear's stuff tested. How do we go about doing that?
 
We are the testers basically, if this keeps up for another 2 days I'm stopping
 
Deoudes59 said:
We are the testers basically, if this keeps up for another 2 days I'm stopping
It's that bad?! If they're guilty of faulty advertising and are distributing a product that is making you go bald I would think they're leaving themselves open to a nice lawsuit right? There has to be a way for us to get this stuff analyzed by an independent lab. HMGear should be all over this and should be willing to provide us with the results. How do we get in touch with these guys other than that stupid form on their website? They never answer their phones...
 
I thought that converting to DHN was possibly better for avoiding hairloss and the M4ohn wouldn't do that, which could make hairloss worse like oxabolone. Not converting to DHN makes it more androgenic. If H.M. Gears stuff is just M-nandrolone, shouldn't it be better for your hair?
 
psywzrd said:
It's that bad?! If they're guilty of faulty advertising and are distributing a product that is making you go bald I would think they're leaving themselves open to a nice lawsuit right? There has to be a way for us to get this stuff analyzed by an independent lab. HMGear should be all over this and should be willing to provide us with the results. How do we get in touch with these guys other than that stupid form on their website? They never answer their phones...

It not that the hairloss is that bad, it's the I want to be taking M4OHN, and if i'm taking a product that is contributing to hairloss, then it's not M4OHN. Meaning, I (we) don't know what the hell we are taking.

If I'm going to lose hair it might as well be from steroids, not HM Gear's Oxanavar.
 
swany said:
I thought that converting to DHN was possibly better for avoiding hairloss and the M4ohn wouldn't do that, which could make hairloss worse like oxabolone. Not converting to DHN makes it more androgenic. If H.M. Gears stuff is just M-nandrolone, shouldn't it be better for your hair?


Bump on this question, I'm waiting on Sledge, others - to voice
 
Rogue Drone said:
It's possible that as HMgear never tested their Oxanavar, that they are not selling M4OHN, just 17a-methyl nandrolone, no 4-OH.

Sledge said the first two batches he received were 17a-methyl nandrolone. If sledge got two mislabeled ones, what are the chances that HMgear did as well? I think quite high.

The 4-OH is an aromatase inhibitor, which should prevent aromatization of Nandralone to Estrogen and DHT. Actually, I'm a little unsure of the wether it's DHT or DHP, sledge would know. Point being that the saftey aspect of MOHN may be missing here.

IMO, Trying to make what the evidence indicates is a dry (non E converting), cutting (speculatively Cortisol and IGF-1 stimulating) substance into a mass builder by upping the doseage is unlikely to work.Without E, there will never be the cellular hydration and cell-pliability that mass builders are expected to have.


Nandrolone doesn't convert to estrogen/DHT. But water retension is somewhat high.

About the hairloss thing - could it be due to doubling of the dosage to 20mg regardless the purity?
 
MarcusG said:
About the hairloss thing - could it be due to doubling of the dosage to 20mg regardless the purity?
I was just going to say that. I have been using Sledge's M4OHN and about a week ago when i upped the dose to 20 mg's, I noticed some shedding also.
 
Below is from Big Cat on Bodybuilding.com



Oxabolone is a nandrolone derivative however, a 19Nor compound. The 4-hydroxyl attachment, just like the 4-chloro attachment in clostebol, changes the affinity of the steroid for the aromatase and 5-alpha-reductase enzymes. By losing the interaction with the aromatase enzyme, oxabolone, unlike its parent nandrolone, cannot convert to estrogen. All estrogen related side-effects are therefore non-existent. No risk of gyno, no bloat as the result of water retention and so forth. As most of you may know, nandrolone also has progesterone binding properties, that worsened its estrogenic side-effects, but without the presence of estrogen, that no longer forms a problem. Its comparable to trenbolone. Trenbolone still possesses nandrolone's progestagenic activity, but because it cannot aromtize its not an issue. This also means that Oxabolone can be used for cutting purposes, just like trenbolone.

On the other hand, inhibiting interaction with 5-alpha-reductase will have an entirely different effect than it did with clostebol. Clostebol was a testosterone derivative, and the 4-chloro group inhibited formation of DHT in this manner. That made clostebol several times less androgenic in nature than testosterone, and made it a much weaker steroid as well. That's not the case of oxabolone. The 4-hydroxyl group inhibits the formation of DHN (dihydronandrolone). But Unlike DHT, DHN is an extremely weak androgen.So by eliminating it, you are in fact increasing the androgenic potency of nandrolone, especially in target tissues like scalp, skin and prostate, which does increase the risk of androgen related side-effects. But it also makes it a much stronger steroid. Nandrolone being quite a decent androgen to begin with, inhibiting reduction to DHN makes it that much stronger, and truly comparable in action to the steroid trenbolone (see Parabolan and Finaplix profiles). It would exert a distinct hardening effect on the body, and would be a non-aromatizing hormone still capable of packing on a notable amount of lean mass. Which can be said of very few steroids. It would be the perfect lean mass builder.


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I would love to believe that M40hn would act differently somehow. Sledge and others have said that they didn't have hair issues. I purchased tons of his stuff and I am concerned about hairloss myself. Why did you up the dosage to 20mg? I'd keep it lower, this stuff takes time to do it's thing.
 
Whoever said that M-4OHN wouldn't have androgenic sides?? ALL compounds have androgenic sides IE, DHT, 5AR, Type I, Type II, etc... Some compounds will just have different pathways of action, degrees of amplitude of those actions, etc. etc....

The dose will determine how much of it will bind, convert, etc,...to finally contribute to the amount of hairloss that takes place...

M-4OHN, from all that I've read, states that its DHN inhibited....that meaning that unlike Nandrolone, it cannot reduce to DHN....It stays the same...and with that being said, it will be more harsh on the hairline than Nandrolone is...

And from upping doseages, the risk of hair-loss will of course increase.

As for M-Nandrolone, I would think that it would still reduce to DHN, but not sure since I cannot see any Vida texts in front of my face right now so the methylation might change the compound some, not sure...
 
swany said:
Below is from Big Cat on Bodybuilding.com



Oxabolone is a nandrolone derivative however, a 19Nor compound. The 4-hydroxyl attachment, just like the 4-chloro attachment in clostebol, changes the affinity of the steroid for the aromatase and 5-alpha-reductase enzymes. By losing the interaction with the aromatase enzyme, oxabolone, unlike its parent nandrolone, cannot convert to estrogen. All estrogen related side-effects are therefore non-existent. No risk of gyno, no bloat as the result of water retention and so forth. As most of you may know, nandrolone also has progesterone binding properties, that worsened its estrogenic side-effects, but without the presence of estrogen, that no longer forms a problem. Its comparable to trenbolone. Trenbolone still possesses nandrolone's progestagenic activity, but because it cannot aromtize its not an issue. This also means that Oxabolone can be used for cutting purposes, just like trenbolone.

On the other hand, inhibiting interaction with 5-alpha-reductase will have an entirely different effect than it did with clostebol. Clostebol was a testosterone derivative, and the 4-chloro group inhibited formation of DHT in this manner. That made clostebol several times less androgenic in nature than testosterone, and made it a much weaker steroid as well. That's not the case of oxabolone. The 4-hydroxyl group inhibits the formation of DHN (dihydronandrolone). But Unlike DHT, DHN is an extremely weak androgen.So by eliminating it, you are in fact increasing the androgenic potency of nandrolone, especially in target tissues like scalp, skin and prostate, which does increase the risk of androgen related side-effects. But it also makes it a much stronger steroid. Nandrolone being quite a decent androgen to begin with, inhibiting reduction to DHN makes it that much stronger, and truly comparable in action to the steroid trenbolone (see Parabolan and Finaplix profiles). It would exert a distinct hardening effect on the body, and would be a non-aromatizing hormone still capable of packing on a notable amount of lean mass. Which can be said of very few steroids. It would be the perfect lean mass builder.


Invalid Link Removed


I would love to believe that M40hn would act differently somehow. Sledge and others have said that they didn't have hair issues. I purchased tons of his stuff and I am concerned about hairloss myself. Why did you up the dosage to 20mg? I'd keep it lower, this stuff takes time to do it's thing.
Hmmm - interesting information there. I'm starting to think that it might be best to start low and gradually increase the dosage until the sides (ie hair loss) start, then pull it back slightly and stay there. I haven't personally noticed any hairloss at 20mg/day but it's only been a couple days since I upped my dosage. I'm not going to go any higher though because I'm scared sh**less of losing my hair.
 
vicmack777 said:
I was just going to say that. I have been using Sledge's M4OHN and about a week ago when i upped the dose to 20 mg's, I noticed some shedding also.


Gotcha, well I was unaware, hmm well I'm back at square 1 now. Not sure if its M4OHN or not. It's working whatever it is... :confused:
 
Still guys, 17a-methyl nandrolone -- shouldn't has any more or less DHT side effect than M4OHN, am i correct? So it would be dose dependent??
 
I would be more concerned about increased hepatoxicity than hair-loss when increasing the dose beyond 10mg and up to 20 as some of you have been doing...

Remember, there still isn't any facts showing that this dosing regimen is still safe...and even if one were to do a beta-testing of sorts on a few select people, it would still not directly reflect the intial problems that could possibly take place...I would take great caution when and if deciding to do this....
 
Deoudes59 said:
Still guys, 17a-methyl nandrolone -- shouldn't has any more or less DHT side effect than M4OHN, am i correct? So it would be dose dependent??

I don't understand bro...M-nand and M-4OHN are two different compounds...

And if M-nand converts to DHN like its unmethylated counterpart deca, then yes, the M-4OHN would be more androgenic.....So, to answer your question :) if anything, the M-nand would be better for your hairline, not worse..that is when being compared to similair doses as best that we can think of...I have no idea how those two would compare dose wise though...
 
Jergo said:
I don't understand bro...M-nand and M-4OHN are two different compounds...

And if M-nand converts to DHN like its unmethylated counterpart deca, then yes, the M-4OHN would be more androgenic.....So, to answer your question :) if anything, the M-nand would be better for your hairline, not worse..that is when being compared to similair doses as best that we can think of...I have no idea how those two would compare dose wise though...

Gotcha, we were just spectulating that Oxyanavar is M-nandrolone not M4OHN.
Right, what I was thinking earlier M-nandrolone wouldn't be good with Propecia then?? Or is it no different than M4OHN with Propecia?
 
Jergo said:
I would be more concerned about increased hepatoxicity than hair-loss when increasing the dose beyond 10mg and up to 20 as some of you have been doing...

HM suggests up to 40mg, probably overkill right? I'd think so.
My thinking is if M1T is the most toxic, and can be ran up to 30mg, M4OHN which is mild in comparsion should be safe at 20mg-30mg.
 
Deoudes59 said:
Gotcha, we were just spectulating that Oxyanavar is M-nandrolone not M4OHN.
Right, what I was thinking earlier M-nandrolone wouldn't be good with Propecia then?? Or is it no different than M4OHN with Propecia?

Yeah, I reread it and understand better now. The M-nandrolone; as long as it still converts to DHN then it would not be wise to use propecia with it. But again, I cannot say for sure w/o literature in front of me, cuz the methylation process could change the compound a bit, but I'd doubt it....
 
So, if HM's were to have M-nandrolone in it then if you're still using the propecia, then that could be a factor as to why you may be noticing more hair-loss, that is if everything adds up...
 
Jergo said:
Yeah, I reread it and understand better now. The M-nandrolone; as long as it still converts to DHN then it would not be wise to use propecia with it. But again, I cannot say for sure w/o literature in front of me, cuz the methylation process could change the compound a bit, but I'd doubt it....

I was using propecia M4OHN, most people suggest it wouldn't be a problem - rather help things. And It did.
Maybe I'll go back down to 10mg of M4OHN see if side dies.
 
Deoudes59 said:
HM suggests up to 40mg, probably overkill right? I'd think so.
My thinking is if M1T is the most toxic, and can be ran up to 30mg, M4OHN which is mild in comparsion should be safe at 20mg-30mg.

Yeah, I see your point, but noone knows for sure though...I wish that we could find out somehow like everyone else...HM gear not being able to clarify why they think this dose is acceptable could get themselves as well as someone else in to some serious trouble...that is why its just better to go to a well-known company like sledge and know exactly (in a matter of speaking) what's going on, what you're getting, and most of all honest answers to your questions..
 
Deoudes59 said:
I was using propecia M4OHN, most people suggest it wouldn't be a problem - rather help things. And It did.
Maybe I'll go back down to 10mg of M4OHN see if side dies.

Yep, use it with the M-4OHN....I was just saying that since you shouldn't use it with the M-nand, then if what you got from HM gear WAS M-nand, then that may be why you're noticing hairloss....get it?? :)
 
Sledge, are we still looking at the end of next week for your tabs? I guess LG's will be out tomorrow, but over a BB.com's boards, there seems to be some confusion. Maybe you could check the thread out and come back and let us know your thoughts.
 
Jergo said:
Yep, use it with the M-4OHN....I was just saying that since you shouldn't use it with the M-nand, then if what you got from HM gear WAS M-nand, then that may be why you're noticing hairloss....get it?? :)

Okay so....
Propecia w/ M4OHN = Good
Propecia w/ M4Nan = Bad
Correct?
 
IanHummel said:
Sledge, are we still looking at the end of next week for your tabs? I guess LG's will be out tomorrow, but over a BB.com's boards, there seems to be some confusion. Maybe you could check the thread out and come back and let us know your thoughts.

Let's see if Legal Gear actually gets them out. They have a habit of delaying there stuff and hyping it in the meantime.
They've done that with M4OHN for over 5weeks now.
Eric didn't even know what M4OHN was 6weeks ago.
 
Well Methyl-nandrolone with propecia shoulndt be good, just as nandrolone with propecia is not good.

Ill try and get some more of the data together, if anyone has any time PA addressed Big Cats problem with his article (at BB.com). M4OHN should have a low androgen profile, its not impossible that someone could get M-nandrolone bymistake, again if it were tested then they would know and these problems wouldnt happen.

I am prone to hairloss and i was fine on M4OHN (tested higher then 20mgs), I didnt use any topical spiro/minox/propecia or avodart. Of course everyone is different so what is the same for me may not be the same for others.
 
I was using Propecia with your product Sledge and didn't see any hairloss.
Dose Dependent i guess?
 
I was talking about propecia and methyl-nandrolone not M4OHN. I wasnt taking it because I ran out, otherwise I probably would have.
 
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