H-DROL or T-ROID for my goals??

[Ziquor]

p-5-p is pyridoxal -5- phosphate. the non-toxic form of b6 when used at high doses. doses at and above 200mg of b6 can cause permenant nerve damage. and i verified this with Dr. Hauser, yes, PERMENANT! i fell victim to it myself and STILL 8 months later after dosing b6, i have little feeling/sensitivity in my left quad. the problem arose after using the b6 btw. never had any issues before.

Yeah I read that a while back. I got NOW P5P for my upcoming cycle. Did you use yours Bass?

 

[pantera101]

P-5-P is P-5-P.Get it at NP.Is anyones view first unread button taking them to the last post and skipping unread post?Mine is.Only in this thread.:think:Theirs another thread where the delete post option just straight up wasn't there.I'M FREAKING OUT MAN!!!

 

[pantera101]

I don't mind needles but when I think of pinning myself I don't think I could do it :sad:

Sure you can!You can do anything!Aim and POW!Ram it in and feel the penatrating............

 

[Ziquor]

P-5-P is P-5-P.Get it at NP.Is anyones view first unread button taking them to the last post and skipping unread post?Mine is.Only in this thread.:think:Theirs another thread where the delete post option just straight up wasn't there.I'M FREAKING OUT MAN!!!

I never used View 1st before. BTW when the hell did you hit over 2,000 posts? That's crazy.

 

[BlackSheep]

i have little feeling/sensitivity in my left quad. the problem arose after using the b6 btw. never had any issues before.

That sucks bro, but hey look on the bright side man.......that's gonna be a good place to hit latter in the year!!

 

[pantera101]

I never used View 1st before. BTW when the hell did you hit over 2,000 posts? That's crazy.

It took me forever to find it and it's so nice!If I'm not working,training,eating,or shopping.I'm here!

 

[BlackSheep]

Ram it in and feel the penatrating............

Ha,ha.....LMFAO bro!! I don't even need to touch that one 101:toofunny:

 

[pantera101]

Ha,ha.....LMFAO bro!! I don't even need to touch that one 101:toofunny:

Thats why I .......it

 

[Ziquor]

i'm still using mine. started at 600mg b6 for the first week of PCT and have decreased every week since. i did 100mg p-5-p and 100mg b6 to get the 600mg total dose of b6. now i'm just taking 50mg p-5-p. then i'm DONE FRIDAY!! :woohoo:

Wait I'm confused now. You took 100mg of p5p & 100mg of b6 to get 600mg? I wasn't sure when (or if) to start mine and if I do at what dose. They're 50mg caps.

 

[Ziquor]

i think you need to chill on the red bull man :lol: he is saying that dienolone (estra compound) does not contain the cyanomethyl group and the body cannot add that group during the conversion process in the body. therefore it is impossible for dienolone to be a "precursor" to dienogest. they are 2 separate and different compounds. you're right, the body doesn't add the methyl to the 2-ene, which is why it's just 3-AD and not phera, lol.

I see what he's saying but my point (I think), is a cyanomethyl is an oral delivery system like methyl. There are methylated PH's and there are the same exact PH's only non-methyl. All the methyl does is add oral bioavailability & prevent the liver from destroying. Like the original 1-AD and methyl 1-AD. Whether they're methyl or not they still convert to the same thing - only the methyl gets absorbed more and therefore you don't need as high of a dose. You could make a non-methyl version of Halodrol and of course your body can't 'add' the methyl group but it'd still convert to the same thing only it would have poor oral bioavailability and need a much higher dose.

 

[Ziquor]

DAMMIT! IDK I'm not thinking straight right now anyhow - effing Redwings just scored. :frustrate

 

[BlackSheep]

hehehehehe :twisted: only a few more months man.

I'm gonna come see you once you get your swole on bro! I'm about to buy a new ride and yes I'll bring some goodies:woohoo:

 

[BlackSheep]

DAMMIT! IDK I'm not thinking straight right now anyhow - effing Redwings just scored. :frustrate

Sht bro I don't know why your worried about the Penguins the Phoenix Coyotes are the only team in the NHL worth watching anyways!! lol....:clap2:

 

[Ziquor]

Sht bro I don't know why your worried about the Penguins the Phoenix Coyotes are the only team in the NHL worth watching anyways!! lol....:clap2:

Coyotes? I don't remember seeing them as one of the final 2 teams for the Stanley Cup... :smite:

 

[BlackSheep]

You didn't go there, did you go there? Nah you didn't.......

 

[Ziquor]

Definitely not a precursor to dienogest, there is no way the body is adding a "cyanomethyl" group to anything. Dienolone is not a progestin, most steroids do have some progestational activity though.

LMFAO, i'm sorry bro but i can't even comment on this. take some phenibut, gaba, alcohol, something. NO MORE YAYO! i mean redbulls!

I'm just not quite of why all the confusion on what I'm saying...

Ok you have Pheraplex: 17a-methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol

If you take away the methyl group you have: etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol - which is unmethylated Pheraplex (in 3AD). It's the same thing only much less oral bioavailability. Of course the body can't add the Methyl group but it doesn't need to. They're the same compound only one is methyl with high oral bioavailability & the other is non-methyl with little bioavailability.

My same point with the Dienogest. It, in my theory, would be 'active' cyanomethylated T-Roid.

T-Roid actually had a methylated version which is now banned. It was Methyl-D. What's also interesting is that Methyl-D had the exact same recommended dosing as Dienogest, 1-3mg.


Methylated T-Roid = Methyl-D: 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyestra-4,9-diene-3-one

------------- Dienogest: 17a-cyanomethyl-17b-hydroxyestra-4,9-diene-3-one

 

[Ziquor]

Bass, how'd you know I was addicted to Phenibut? DAMN that stuff...

 

[Ziquor]

Just strange how close they are chemically except for the cyanomethyl vs. the methyl. I thought they were both simply oral delivery stabilization systems. Ahhhh... I'm loggin off here for tonight. I may go OD on Phenibut. Damn Redwings crushed us 4-0.

 

[BlackSheep]

^^ WTF?? Dude, bass answered that question a few posts back and you can by it at any vitamin store it's Freakin b6 that's all.

 

[MuscleMadness]

Hockey, PH's, YAYO...!! :wtf: crazy log, fun to read tho!! and also thanks Bass for the p-5-p update, good info to know...



MM

 

[BlackSheep]

^^ Too true lol......^^ Fcuk man I'm really bumbed you can't make the show. I'm gonna have all the, let's say "ancillaries" for that fo sho (as bass would say)!!!
I'll find another one to go to maybe after bass's "T" time that way I'll have your HUUUGEE swole ass there to break up all the fights I always seem to get into. BS Does NOT PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS!!!:head::smite::twisted:

 

[jasonschaffin]

I was basing the breakdown off say, the 2 en in 3-AD. It's non-methylated Phera - the body doesn't add a methyl to the plain 2-en either.

You are correct that the body won't add a methyl. This is also why the two compounds are very different. Methylation at the 17th carbon does more than just increase oral bioavailability, it totally changes the shape of the structure as well as the traits.

Dienolone is unmethylated Dienogest, sure. But they will have vastly different effects in the body. Think about it.
1T v/s M1T
Tren v/s Methyl Tren
Masteron v/s Superdrol
Boldenone v/s Dianabol

 

[BlackSheep]

D@mn not even a single vote for T-Roid.......

 

[pantera101]

What are you getting for the sale BS?Plasma jet and.......

 

[pantera101]

Are you getting anything bass?

 

[BlackSheep]

T-ROID!!

Goddamnit!!! Youz guyz are as conflicted as I am on this sht!! But yea it's in my cart cause the H-d's out-o-stockage!!
I want to run the H-d though cause I think, I think?? I might be able to escape pct without the overdose of nolva I'm using now!! Maybe some sustain alpha and 6oxo or pcs and 6oxo??? From what I've read it looks like proper PCT is a must with the Tren clones though. See my delima. I'll get booth anyways just don't know which I'll run first? (says fuk the world and looks at the bottle of M-drol setting on shelf):frustrate

 

[BlackSheep]

nah, i've spent enough $ on my cut, lol. i have enough supps to last me a whiiiiiiiiiile. just cuz i feel like it, i'll list them all, gimme a min :lol:

DO IT!! (Ben Stiller voice)

 

[pantera101]

Man this damn view first unread is still taking me to the last post! I have alot too but figure I should take advantage of a sale.I'll prob atleast buy some Hawthorne berry extract and celery seed extract.Those with HIIT cardio are working nicely on my BP.I seen 127/65 yesterday!This is with stims and fat burners.

I was wondering since I'm taking both of these at max dose yr round,should I increase the dose with next designer or just leave it?Sometimes too much is just too much,but if max dose is keeping my naturaly high BP lower,I might need a higher dose on a designer.

 

[BlackSheep]

now can you delete your post please? and i will delete mine? lol i don't want everyone knowing what i have :hammer: just you guys.

O' dude Done!! I totally understand, but no one cares about the 3 bottles of Vit-C you have lol.........
Hey bass will you help me with post 98# what do you think about the pct for T-roid versus H-drol????? Thanks guru:hammer:

 

[BlackSheep]

i'm no guru :lol: IMO you should use a SERM for both of them since you're gyno prone. there are no OTC items that prevent gyno. no need to overdose nolva, there is NEVER any need to overdose nolva. a PCT for T-ROID would be perfect at 20/20/10/10 possibly even 20/10/10/10 it really depends on how shut down you feel. adding sustain alpha or PCS would make for a nice PCT.

Ahh, you don't give yourself enough credit bass. Thanks though bro I'm gonna place my order now. Guess you guys will get to see a man's T-ROID log lol!! That name cracks me up dude sounds like something Muscle-tech would name one of there creatine/sugar overdose supps lol.....

 

[Ziquor]

You are correct that the body won't add a methyl. This is also why the two compounds are very different. Methylation at the 17th carbon does more than just increase oral bioavailability, it totally changes the shape of the structure as well as the traits.

Dienolone is unmethylated Dienogest, sure. But they will have vastly different effects in the body. Think about it.
1T v/s M1T
Tren v/s Methyl Tren
Masteron v/s Superdrol
Boldenone v/s Dianabol

I was 99% certain that Dienolone was unmethylated Dienogest. This morning I found a bunch of info from the creator of Methyldienolone (Methyl-D) and I also found pictures of the molecular structures of each. I got the "T-Roid" (Estra-4,9-Diene-3,17-Dione) molecular structure off of a company in China who sells the raws. As for Dienogest its molecular image is on Wiki. They definitely are the same compound, identical, only one adds the c-methyl group. And you're exactly correct about the properties. Last night I really wasn't putting much thought into how severe methyl vs non-methyl changes a chemicals properties. Then again last night as I was pretty 'out of it'. To a point you made about properties earlier in the thread, in reality mostly all anabolics are really both androgen & progestin. Nearly all of them have androgenic activity as well as progestinal activity. Methy-Dienolone (Methyl-D, Dienogest) is a pretty strong progestin as it has a relative binding affinity of 71 for the progesterone receptor and 64 for the androgen receptor. But one you remove it's methyl properties and get regular Dienolone it changes completely. Dienolone has relative binding affinities of of 17 for the progesterone receptor and 134 for the androgen receptor. Big difference than Methyl-D. So while Methyldienolone would be a pretty strong progestin regular dienolone would be more so considered an androgen/anabolic.

 

[Ziquor]

I wish I had the progesterone vs. androgen activity for all gear. Seems to be a big myth that progestins cause gyno but if you have existing gyno or had in the past, the stronger progestinal activity something has the more it'll 'flare' or rebound your gyno. Turinabol has less progestinal activity than any other oral known. Thus I'd recommend H-Drol for you BS - due to your 'old friend'.

 

[Ziquor]

BTW BS here's Patrick Arnold's 'review' of the "T-Roid" products if you haven't seen it:

Estra-4,9-dien-3,17-dione

This is another steroid precursor, a dione to be specific. Diones only have moderately decent conversion, so this product will not possess the full activity of its active metabolite. The active metabolite in this case is the nandrolone derivative Estra-4,9-dien-17b-ol-3-one and according to Vida, it has an anabolic potency equal to methyltestosterone and an androgenic potency 0.1 times.
It does not appear from my knowledge of steroid metabolism that this steroid aromatizes. However the potential for progestational activity is there, as it is with many 19-norandrogens. This stuff has been referred to as a trenbolone precursor, however this is inaccurate because trenbolone has an additional double bond in the structure and the body does not have the capacity (as far as i know) to insert this double bond. Bottom line is that this is a weak hormone with so-so conversion that probably requires 50mg-100mg for physiological effects to be seen in most men. On the upside the fact that it is not 17a-alkylated, so liver toxicity is not a serious issue.

 

[BlackSheep]

As anabolic as M1T, cannot aromatize, minimal liver toxicity...................................................sold!!!!

 

[pantera101]

Dat der t roid sounds kinda kewl!I have to run havoc next though!I have 4 bottles and haven't ran it once and hear such good things about it!

 

[pantera101]

you can send 1 to me and i'll let you know how it goes

You're fixing to venture off into bigger things!

 

[BlackSheep]

Hey I'm hear I wanna talk lol........I'm in a effin PK coma right now though. Drank a bunch of tequila yesterday and passed out in my friends backyard NOT GOOD!!! I have the worst sun burn EVER!!!! Well I've had 1-2 as bad but sht!! What a dumbass hu??
Hey bassmaster I got 2 bottles of dat der T-mofukin-Roid on it's way and I'll be stacking it with a litte surprise. It's gettin done right this time boyz!!

 

[BlackSheep]

:toofunny: NIIIIIIICEE!! i bet your skin burns like a mofo! gotta love AZ glad to hear you went with the T-ROID. can't wait to see a log from you bro.

Yea I'm aa-ite dough. Got some lidocaine suspension I've been rubbing on it and I've had around 25mg of oxycodone today so I'm not feelin much fo sho (in bass's voice(whatever that sounds like). I'm glad I had some of my PKs left over but they make me mad weak the next day up in the gym!! That makes me not so happy:aargh:.
What you up to today pimp??

 

[BlackSheep]

haha yea, you're DEF feelin ight then. planned on lifting but the gym was closed; LAME! so i've just been chillin. went for a ride on the CBR over to PV and took 17 back here. it was a nice ride. i ran into some other rydaz over there and we were fckin around stuntin on this 1 road for a while. just doin wheelies, stoppies, goin over 150mph, stuff like that, lol. then we grabbed a bite to eat at applebee's. their sirloin steak is BOMB!! i've jus been chillin here since then. thinkin bout being bad and cookin up some burgers and havin a few brews :afro: Corona w/ lime, yea baby!

Sounds like a good plan broster. I had a FEW drinks yesterday first time since I ran da epi 2 months ago. It was nice but I don't miss it fo sht!!!
Hey should I wait the full 8weeks after pct to start my next cycle?? I'm gonna throw up an out line for it in a few weeks in "cycle info". I'll PM you in a minute and give you da low, low on what I'm gonna try (DO) lol.....:jaw:

 

[BlackSheep]

Nah, about 8ish lol....
Bro I just outlined my whole fuking cycle on a PM to send you and my fcking power turned off!!!!! That pisses me off. I'll retype it and send it to you now...

 

[pantera101]

Nah, about 8ish lol....
Bro I just outlined my whole fuking cycle on a PM to send you and my fcking power turned off!!!!! That pisses me off. I'll retype it and send it to you now...

Definatelty wait the 8 weeks man.I ran one 6 weeks after my first one and all I got were negative sides from it.So basically I did the damage for nothing,then had to wait the proper time after that cycle to start another.It sucked man!It would be like if you didn't get drunk from the alcahol last night but still passed out and got burnt!

 

[BlackSheep]

Definatelty wait the 8 weeks man.I ran one 6 weeks after my first one and all I got were negative sides from it.So basically I did the damage for nothing,then had to wait the proper time after that cycle to start another.It sucked man!It would be like if you didn't get drunk from the alcahol last night but still passed out and got burnt!

I wasn't drinking last night you bastard!!! LMFAO....I hear ya bro, that's good advise (especially coming from you lol...JK) I think I'm going to find something to bridge with until its time to go again.........And yes there will be a log!!!! And I might run superdrol instead too.......just though I'd throw that in there after everyone wasted there time voting lol.....:frustrate

 

[pantera101]

I wasn't drinking last night you bastard!!! LMFAO....I hear ya bro, that's good advise (especially coming from you lol...JK) I think I'm going to find something to bridge with until its time to go again.........And yes there will be a log!!!! And I might run superdrol instead too.......just though I'd throw that in there after everyone wasted there time voting lol.....:frustrate

Well you already went against the clear winner,so fvck it man!Theirs always MMV2.I just started an EC stack yesterday as well.My caffeine is green tea pills with 160mg's natural caffeine.I needed that today with my lunch.The wholelotta platta!

 

[BlackSheep]

Well you already went against the clear winner,so fvck it man!!

Ha,ha yea I'll probably change my mind 3-4 more times before it's D-day anyhow. I'll either stack the T-Roid with Furazadrol at 400mgs through out for 4weeks.........."or" I'll run 6weeks of H-drol stand-alone............"or" I'll run superD and say fcuk the world!!! "or"......nah that's it lol........:rofl:

 

[crazyfool405]

Thanks for the reply my friend.
However, this is a common misconception do to falty marketing...19-norandrosta-4,9 diene-3,17 dione has been "marketed" as a precursor to the progestional steroid Trenbolone. BUT it is actualy a precursor to the steroid Dienolone which is not a progestin. So it's a PH to dienelone not actually Trenbolone as the name would imply.
With that said ....................BUMP!!!:hammer:

19 nors and estra 4,9 and `3 methoxy guna.

ARE PROGESTINS

but you are right the one you are stating DOES NOT CONVERT TO TREN

 

[BlackSheep]

19 nors and estra 4,9 and `3 methoxy guna.

ARE PROGESTINS

but you are right the one you are stating DOES NOT CONVERT TO TREN

THEY ARE NOT PROGESTINS. Read my second or third post bro, this topic has been beatin to death as well lol....
Thanks for your concern though brother.......:cheers:

 

[BlackSheep]

O I see you quoted that post already man lol....I'm retarded durrrpp!! It seems like half say it is and the other half say it's not so IDK. But if that is true (and I'm not calling you a lier) I sure as hell wont fcuk with it cause my younger brother got some badass gyno from ErgoMax LMG, and I'm prone to it anyways.
Do you have any experiance with this compound crazyfoo??

 

[pantera101]

O I see you quoted that post already man lol....I'm retarded durrrpp!! It seems like half say it is and the other half say it's not so IDK. But if that is true (and I'm not calling you a lier) I sure as hell wont fcuk with it cause my younger brother got some badass gyno from ErgoMax LMG, and I'm prone to it anyways.
Do you have any experiance with this compound crazyfoo??

Was he not prepared?I can't wait untill my cousin gets older.He's a powerlifter in high school but very conceited and wants to get bigger.It'll be fun to have someone to do sh!t with.Ya know what I mean?

 

[crazyfool405]

O I see you quoted that post already man lol....I'm retarded durrrpp!! It seems like half say it is and the other half say it's not so IDK. But if that is true (and I'm not calling you a lier) I sure as hell wont fcuk with it cause my younger brother got some badass gyno from ErgoMax LMG, and I'm prone to it anyways.
Do you have any experiance with this compound crazyfoo??

yea the "tren" lol.

needs to be dosed WAY higher like 90-150mg to be effective. i had a nice hardening effect, and mad boners lol

but got strong i wouldnt run it alone.

 

[BlackSheep]

Was he not prepared?I can't wait untill my cousin gets older.He's a powerlifter in high school but very conceited and wants to get bigger.It'll be fun to have someone to do sh!t with.Ya know what I mean?

Nah, he was like 18 and all this "you gotta have a serm" sht wasn't even spoke of at the time. I told him to run something but you know 18 year olds they already know every fcking thing about everything. He regrets it now though so live and learn right.:cheers: