Gyno advice

Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

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Hi, first off if this is posted in the wrong group I will delete and repost.

So weird(ish) one this. I have recently been on a quest to boost libido and sense of well being. In the past couple of months I have ran what I thought were natural supplements in order to achieve this.

I ran optimize T along with sustain alpha and after the optimize ran out I switched to innovapharm test (which also contains arimistane, not sure if that is classed as natural).

As the innovapharm began to run out I decided to run a mild cycle consisting of 4 andro and S4, S4 I've used before but a different brand and liked the results. The 4 andro as a test base for mild suppression and also to compare the libido effects against natural supps.

The weekend I started cycle I had a slight tingling in left nipple and was so faint thought it could be mind playing tricks. About a week into the cycle it had got worse and a pea sized lump has developed. So at week 2 I pulled the plug on the cycle.

The 4 andro was never ran above 150 to 225mg per day so very low dose. The S4 I have binned as I'm not convinced it's real. In the past I've ran S4 with great results but had the vision sides by the end of week one at 50mg per day. This brand I got no vision sides although strength was going up. I upped to to 75mg per day before I stopped the cycle and still no vision sides so could have been something else.

Anyway the gyno symptoms have continued and the lump swelling has got worse. It's still probably not noticeable and very small under the skin so not crazy but it's there. At the moment I'm using arimistane now at 100mg per day to see what's up and I have started M-Test. I don't have nolva at present and have no intentions of running more hardcore cycles in future.

Is there a chance that coming off the optimize T and sustain alpha could cause an estrogen spike? I naturally have low test levels and although these are natural supplements if they work at a low level to boost natural test could coming off cause an imbalance with estrogen. Also could arimistane be causing more harm than good. I know it's OTC and not considered a true AI.

Should I just go cold turkey on everything and see if my body can regain homeostasis? Keep the m-test.

Obviously bloods is the go to here and I am trying to get a gp appointment. Gonna have to use the "I have a lump in my chest" to get seen though as doctor's here do not entertain any hormonal queries.

A lot of info here but any advise would be appreciated.
 

Jeremyk1

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Most people like raloxifene for gyno, but I didn’t have much luck. Tamoxifen worked wonders for me though. I’d try one of them.

I doubt you’d get much rebound from either optimize T or Sustain. I guess it’s possible, but doesn’t seem very likely.

The more likely culprit is the cycle you ran. 4 andro is aromatizeable, so the extra estrogen could contribute. Plus you apparently don’t know what was in the other so that could be the main problem. But any time you mess with hormones, there’s a risk of gyno. I don’t know if there’s any actual evidence, but my guess is even if you take “only” a SARM, you can still throw off your hormone balance. Maybe more likely with SARMs. Since you suppress T production, you may have less androgen to offset any effects of estrogen. With SARMs being selective, they won’t help your boobies as much as some other gear might. Just a thought.

I don’t think arimistane would be doing anything harmful here, but probably won’t do a lot of help. A SERM is probably the way I would go. I haven’t had an issue in a very long time, but last time I had a lump, I got some MA exemestane and tamoxifen and it was knocked out in less than two weeks. I kept it up for over a month though, just tapered down over time.
 
Wobmarvel

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Most people like raloxifene for gyno, but I didn’t have much luck. Tamoxifen worked wonders for me though. I’d try one of them.

I doubt you’d get much rebound from either optimize T or Sustain. I guess it’s possible, but doesn’t seem very likely.

The more likely culprit is the cycle you ran. 4 andro is aromatizeable, so the extra estrogen could contribute. Plus you apparently don’t know what was in the other so that could be the main problem. But any time you mess with hormones, there’s a risk of gyno. I don’t know if there’s any actual evidence, but my guess is even if you take “only” a SARM, you can still throw off your hormone balance. Maybe more likely with SARMs. Since you suppress T production, you may have less androgen to offset any effects of estrogen. With SARMs being selective, they won’t help your boobies as much as some other gear might. Just a thought.

I don’t think arimistane would be doing anything harmful here, but probably won’t do a lot of help. A SERM is probably the way I would go. I haven’t had an issue in a very long time, but last time I had a lump, I got some MA exemestane and tamoxifen and it was knocked out in less than two weeks. I kept it up for over a month though, just tapered down over time.
Yeah thanks. I used to always keep nolva and clomid on hand but have not ran crazy cycles for a while so don't keep them any more. I've ran a few sarm cycles over the years and never used a serm after, also never had gyno symptoms after either. I used to use nolva and or clomid for halodrol, epistane or superdrol cycles. Plus I had gyno symptoms when I used superdrol years ago. It went away during pct but it had established so this could be a flare up. I usually have low test. Possibly because of my oral only cycles with no test base over the years. I tested it once with a do at home test kit and my total test came back like 1 or 2 so I went to the doctor and they didn't give a ****. It could be the case that with test so low naturally the 4 andro and mystery supplement caused suppression and has completely tanked my test causing estrogen imbalances. Having said that I don't feel like ****. I just feel like I'm wearing a tight bra that's pushing on my chest which is quite distracting.
 
SSJ4GOD

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Yeah thanks. I used to always keep nolva and clomid on hand but have not ran crazy cycles for a while so don't keep them any more. I've ran a few sarm cycles over the years and never used a serm after, also never had gyno symptoms after either. I used to use nolva and or clomid for halodrol, epistane or superdrol cycles. Plus I had gyno symptoms when I used superdrol years ago. It went away during pct but it had established so this could be a flare up. I usually have low test. Possibly because of my oral only cycles with no test base over the years. I tested it once with a do at home test kit and my total test came back like 1 or 2 so I went to the doctor and they didn't give a ****. It could be the case that with test so low naturally the 4 andro and mystery supplement caused suppression and has completely tanked my test causing estrogen imbalances. Having said that I don't feel like ****. I just feel like I'm wearing a tight bra that's pushing on my chest which is quite distracting.
For many people arimistane has little to no effect in estrogen. For example it lowers mine a very very small amount (as seen on blood work) but for others, blood work shows zero change, and others show a decent size change. So if it doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t work.
what 4-andro product did you use? Is it regular 4-dhea or one of the longer esters mixed in?
For future reference, for light cycles like this, I would just use a epiandro as a “test base” because you don’t have to worry about estrogen conversion.
For a small lump, get some tamoxifen and I always keep letro in the closet in case things get out of hand.
 
Wobmarvel

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For many people arimistane has little to no effect in estrogen. For example it lowers mine a very very small amount (as seen on blood work) but for others, blood work shows zero change, and others show a decent size change. So if it doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t work.
what 4-andro product did you use? Is it regular 4-dhea or one of the longer esters mixed in?
For future reference, for light cycles like this, I would just use a epiandro as a “test base” because you don’t have to worry about estrogen conversion.
For a small lump, get some tamoxifen and I always keep letro in the closet in case things get out of hand.
I just went with hi tech. It was their straight up andro without esters at 75mg per tab. Only took two per day for a week, then upped to 3 before I called stop on the cycle. I wasn't really taking it for a huge test boost. Most people say you need to run 330mg per day to get anything out of it. It was mainly to keep me at pretty standard levels if the S4 causes mild suppression. If I got a libido boost then it would have been a bonus. I'm wondering if I was getting suppressed anyway from the two compounds but at the same time wasnt getting much if any endogenous test from the 4 andro. My estrogen may not really have moved but my test would have lowered and so still causing an imbalance.
 
SSJ4GOD

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I just went with hi tech. It was their straight up andro without esters at 75mg per tab. Only took two per day for a week, then upped to 3 before I called stop on the cycle. I wasn't really taking it for a huge test boost. Most people say you need to run 330mg per day to get anything out of it. It was mainly to keep me at pretty standard levels if the S4 causes mild suppression. If I got a libido boost then it would have been a bonus. I'm wondering if I was getting suppressed anyway from the two compounds but at the same time wasnt getting much if any endogenous test from the 4 andro. My estrogen may not really have moved but my test would have lowered and so still causing an imbalance.
I believe it’s the deca ester in that product which makes it stay in the system longer. But yeah definitely caused an imbalance and probably converted to estrogen a bit too. Tamoxifen it away
 
Wobmarvel

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So assuming I can get bloods in the next couple of weeks or so in the meantime should I.

A: Go off everything and see if my body sorts itself out.

B: Stay on m-test to boost natural test. Keep taking arimistane.

C: Stay on m-test and stop arimistane. I have another theory that my body could be reacting someway to the arimistane. I was taking a test booster with this included for three weeks before tingling started. Seems a more realistic time frame than starting mystery sarm and 4 andro and getting tingles the same day.
 
SSJ4GOD

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I would say option A since I don’t see arimistane causing it but stop all of it.
Best option would be: before anything get an actual serm to reverse what you got
 
Wobmarvel

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I'm thinking C. Part of me thinks it's crazy to stop anything that could act as an arimistane inhibitor but from reading up the jury is out as to whether it does anything at all.
 
Wobmarvel

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I would say option A since I don’t see arimistane causing it but stop all of it.
Best option would be: before anything get an actual serm to reverse what you got
Yeah just been talking to a guy I get supplements from in town about it. He can get me tamoxifen but says I need to get bloods to find out if it's prolactin based or not otherwise can make issue worse.
 

Jeremyk1

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Yeah just been talking to a guy I get supplements from in town about it. He can get me tamoxifen but says I need to get bloods to find out if it's prolactin based or not otherwise can make issue worse.
I don’t think there’s any possibility it could make it worse. Yeah prolactin can exacerbate things, but taking care of the estrogen angle would do nothing but good for you.

You could throw in something “gentler” like SNS inhibit P to get prolactin down some. But if it was me, I would 100% be starting a SERM right away.

Mine has flared up super randomly before, so I almost always have a bottle of tamoxifen around. Just in case.
 
SSJ4GOD

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I don’t think there’s any possibility it could make it worse. Yeah prolactin can exacerbate things, but taking care of the estrogen angle would do nothing but good for you.

You could throw in something “gentler” like SNS inhibit P to get prolactin down some. But if it was me, I would 100% be starting a SERM right away.

Mine has flared up super randomly before, so I almost always have a bottle of tamoxifen around. Just in case.
Inhibit P is some pretty great stuff and my first line of defense for prolactin. If I’m doing some heavier tren doses then I go right to caber. But inhibit p is perfect!
 
Wobmarvel

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I really appreciate the input guys. Regardless on timeframe of bloods I'm gonna get some tamoxifen even if it's just to keep in the cupboard. Like I said before I used to always have that and clomid on hand. Could be a week or so till I have it but still worth the punt. No harm in getting inhibit P either.

The thing that puzzles me the most here is that I had my 4 andro ready to go, along with S4 and arimistane. I planned to start on a Monday and stopped the innovapharm test the Friday before. Sustain alpha was done about a week before that and I definitely had sensitive itchy nipple stuff going on that weekend before I even started the cycle. The lump didn't appear until midweek but at that point I had only ran like 3 days of 150mg 4 andro and 50mg S4.

Even if the S4 was bunk and was spiked with something crazy I don't see how gyno could start after a few days.

When I had symptoms in the past it started on week three of superdrol at 20mg per day. If this was superdrol and crazy dosed I guess it could happen but I've had no bloat, I'm dieting so losing weight. It's quite perplexing
 
SSJ4GOD

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I really appreciate the input guys. Regardless on timeframe of bloods I'm gonna get some tamoxifen even if it's just to keep in the cupboard. Like I said before I used to always have that and clomid on hand. Could be a week or so till I have it but still worth the punt. No harm in getting inhibit P either.

The thing that puzzles me the most here is that I had my 4 andro ready to go, along with S4 and arimistane. I planned to start on a Monday and stopped the innovapharm test the Friday before. Sustain alpha was done about a week before that and I definitely had sensitive itchy nipple stuff going on that weekend before I even started the cycle. The lump didn't appear until midweek but at that point I had only ran like 3 days of 150mg 4 andro and 50mg S4.

Even if the S4 was bunk and was spiked with something crazy I don't see how gyno could start after a few days.

When I had symptoms in the past it started on week three of superdrol at 20mg per day. If this was superdrol and crazy dosed I guess it could happen but I've had no bloat, I'm dieting so losing weight. It's quite perplexing
[/QUOTE
Once you get gyno symptoms once, they usually come back faster and faster if no control is in place
 

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