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GOOD BLOOD WORK BUT TIGHT SCROTUM

benjpress

New member
Hi guys, I'm new here and I'm looking for help.

After 10 year of serious natty training

Here's what I did.


week one to 10 600mg test prop
week one to 6 220mg npp ( i stopped because i thought it was the cause of my low libido during cycle)
week four to 10 500 masteron


I ran 5000ui hcg, 1000ui with the last oed 5 injections of prop to get the machine ready to produce...

I waited 4 days the be sure the prop was out of my body, and I strated 10 days on luliberin for 100mcg per days ( INNOVAGEN luliberin)


at this point, during the 10 days of luliberin my libido was crazy.

To be sure its was enough for my HPTA ( cause i saw few post where pct with luliberin failed after few months) I ran directly after the 10 days of luli 40 40 20 20 Nolva, with 12.5 mg of aromasin oed

The first week with serms and ai was OK, but after the first week, my libido was gone... since then by balls went into my body but doesn't seems that much small. I tought myself that maybe clomid could help, so i continued 3 others week with nolva at 20mg, added 50mg of clomid and aromasin 12.5 eod.

Its just didnt help.

To sum up, i did 1000 eod for 5000ui of hcg, waited 4 days, then 10 days of luliberin, directly after, 40 40 20 20 20 20 nolva with 12.5 oed of aromasin And 50mg of clomid the last 3 weeks.


My balls are the size of a small eggs but they are alway stuck inside me and it hurts, they dont hang low? My libido is poor as ****. I know that Serms like nolva and clomid killed my libido... and it could take time to get the serms out of my body....

One night after all this, i pressed on my nipple and there was water getting out !!! Clear liquid... I thought that my prolactin level was the cause of the probelm. I strated dostinex for .5mg 2 times a week.

After 2 dose, i woke up during night with crazy boner... but after few week, it stopped.

my ball dont hang low and often during the day, they just go inside my body, they just dont hang anymore... and my scrotum is really tight.


So I went to see a doctor whos specialized in steroids, sport... I've got BW first



I've got blood work wich was pretty good, but my balls were stuck inside me and i felt like crap. LH AND FSH was good.... lh was 7.5 on a scale of 1-9 and fsh 11 on a scale of 1-17.... total test was 27.5 on a scale I think of 8 to 30. Prolactin was normal , but estradiol was super high, my ball were atrophied.... this is why i'm doing all this.


So to reverse atrophy I started hcg with the doc, on hcg for 20 day at 500 ui with 25mg of aromasin ..... did nothing, just the onyl 3 4 first day i saw my testicle for the first time in months!! but after, they just got inside me again... after the 20 days he up de dosage to 1000ui ed....after 10 day it was worse... no libido at all, ball hurt... but i gain all back the power i've got during my cycle... i'm a bull in the gym!!!



I went to the doc again after my run of 1000ui ed of hcg, because my nuts were stuck inside me again... This is weird, i feel great, i'm super strong in the gym, so I guess my nuts are producing test for sure ... But they dont HANG and its painfull.

Doc told me to get a shut of tripto after all this hcg and start clomid directly after...


What do you think about all this ?
 
If you're already seeing a doctor why ask us? The majority of us aren't doctors and only know stuff because we've used it perviously or read enough about it to be decently knowledgeable about it. I don't see a need to really ask us if your doctor knows what he/she is doing
 
Well even if he is a doc, they dont know everything, and sometime, people have similar experiences and they can help.
 
Well I'm not a md, too. But I think there is a value in asking a doc and a forum paralel. One just should not put the opinion of some internet guys over that one of a doc. But discussing things mentioned with the doc if they seem right might be a good option to make sure nothing is overlooked.

So how long is it now after your cycle. And were there times you took nothing and how long were they?
 
I personally see nothing wrong by asking here, so long there is a MD visit scheduled.

I don't have as much experience when it comes to AS as other members but I wouldnt be surprised if someone out there has experienced something similar, either way, I wish you luck and let us know what happens.
 
I can't help you but I don't see an issue posting here

Yea most aren't drs here but someone might have had the same experience and can tell you what questions you need to ask the dr
 
i finished my cycle oct. 16 i did 6 week pct.... waited like a month and half and I fel different, my nut was hurting so I went to see the doc! I'm affraid i have desenzitise my nuts to LH but I did so much research and seems to be a myth. I saw study where normal man used 5000ui eod during 6 month without mention of down regulation so... Its just seem strange that i'm that strong * ( I really gain back all my strength and power of my cycle) so I'm sure my nuts are producing but they dont hang anymore it look like I'm a 12 yo boy .... dont have any libido to! I will inject tripto in 3 days 100mcg IM with aromasin because tripto is strong and make aromatize.
 
With the Leydig cells the usual principle of desensitisation does not work. Usually a high dose of something leads to a lower response in the long term. The Leydig cells however are actually growing because of LH and FSH and the same factors cause testosterone release. In the case of Leydig cells a long time without LH and FSH is therefore desensitizing these cells. Making more LH and FSH necessary to get a response (so more hcg in this case).

But since your cycle was only 10 weeks the dose of 5000iU over a few days should have been easily enough.

If bloodwork proves your natural test production is running at a normal level (without you taking anything and with your body cleared of any drug!) I would suggest you just stay off a while longer. The problem seems to me more like a high stress response than anything else. Messing with drugs further and further wich all do about the same in that regard you are only causing your body more stress.

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thx mate! well at this point., after all that hcg i need to hit my hpta so I'll do what de doc said.... tripto and then il stay off, with vit D, DAA, Magnesium zinc and arginine! I'll post BW after tripto
 
Nandrolone has you shut down, hard. It will take you 6 months or more to fully recover. It also may be directly toxic to Leydig cells.

I would never touch any 19-nor.
 
Spurfy said:
Nandrolone has you shut down, hard. It will take you 6 months or more to fully recover. It also may be directly toxic to Leydig cells.

I would never touch any 19-nor.
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do you have source about that? I know npp tren and deca are supressive , but never heard about being toxic for the testes... and i ran such a low dose
 
benjpress said:
do you have source about that? I know npp tren and deca are supressive , but never heard about being toxic for the testes... and i ran such a low dose
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Nandrolone is 11 times more toxic to blood vessels than testosterone (1)
Nandrolone causes suppression of T production and testicular shrinkage for up to 6 months after stopping even a mild cycle (2)
Nandrolone (and stanozolol -- Winstrol) induce testicular tumors (3)
Nandrolone may cause testicular failure (4)


1. Toxicol Lett. 2007 Mar 8;169(2):129-36. Epub 2007 Jan 3.
2. Lancet. 1984 Feb 25;1(8374):417-20.
3. J Cell Physiol. 2012 May;227(5):2079-88. doi: 10.1002/jcp.22936.
4. J Steroids Hormon Sci DOI: 10.4172/2157-7536.S1.002
 
benjpress said:
do you have source about that? I know npp tren and deca are supressive , but never heard about being toxic for the testes... and i ran such a low dose
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My advice? Get on toremifene immediately, at 60 mg/day for a month, or clomid 25 mg daily, or tamoxifen 20 mg daily. I would bet money that within 21 days your balls respond, and if on toremifene, within 7 days.
 
Spurfy said:
My advice? Get on toremifene immediately, at 60 mg/day for a month, or clomid 25 mg daily, or tamoxifen 20 mg daily. I would bet money that within 21 days your balls respond, and if on toremifene, within 7 days.
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He's already done a 6 week nolva / 3 week clomid PCT, are you saying doesnt matter, simply wasnt long enough? Or if he didnt respond favourably in that time, his drugs were bunk?
 
Nac said:
He's already done a 6 week nolva / 3 week clomid PCT, are you saying doesnt matter, simply wasnt long enough?
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He's been messing around with exemestane, hCG, SERMs, etc.

1. No AI
2. Get on and stay on a SERM, and just a SERM (obviously toremifene is the best choice), for at least a month.
3. Go off SERM
4. Get bloods

I believe the hCG caused massive intra-testicular aromatization (which cannot be controlled by any AI, btw) and this compounded the shutdown and testicular damage from the 19-nor.

A SERM will accomplish E2 control at the receptor level, which is all that matters, and blocking the E2 receptors for long enough should trigger Leydig cell growth, which has been suppressed by the 19-nor and very high E2.

My hypothesis.
 
But why no aromasin ? If i did not take it white on hcg I world probably have tits right now lol my estradiol was already to the roof before the hcg. And clomid is Well known to promote e2 . You dont think it would be better to use low dose of aromasin 12.5 eod pi 25mg of clomid ? I got only pharma grade.


And what is weird is that my test and lh were super high before the hcg even if my balls are small ?
 
Can you put the Links of every source (studie) you gave from your last post please . I cant find them. ..and about aromasin just want to know if i use clomid. Why the aromasin would have a negative impact on clomid ? Thx !!
 
No. I'm done with this thread. I've given you all the information I'm going to give you. You can take my advice or not.

Get on a SERM. Go off. Retest. If LH and FSH are high while T is low, then you have testicular failure. If not, great, the SERM brought your T:E2 back into balance.
 
benjpress said:
Dont take this like that ? Im taKing your advice i just want to know why .
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I understand how you might be feeling, and what your instincts are telling you to do but, look at it this way: your original plan of attack has failed, which is what motivated this thread right? What have you got to lose at this point by following his advice? And really, think about what he is recommending. Its not that unorthodox at all.
 
Yes i know lol ! I just want the Links of sources he mention above to educate myself thats it ! And i wanna know why aromasin is bad with clomid. Im affraid that if i let my e2 go up ill do rebound and shut me down more. I just want to understand thats it !



Soon ill get bw result . I did those while I was on hcg so ill see if my testes work . If theyyy do ill get on serm for sure ... i got clomid pharma grade by the doc
 
As long as you take the SERM the estrogen can not take action. When you are getting off the SERM without AI you will have to taper down carefully over a few weeks. This way estrogen levels should normalise to your new dose before you get lower again and so on. The discepancy between should level and is level does not get too high so fluctuations are minimal.
 
1. Relax. Get off everything at least 14-21 days, too much going on.

2. Get bloods again, base

3. Take a legit serm for 4 weeks clomid, Nolva, torem.

4. No a.i (if range is ok in base bloods)

5.Get bloods again after those 4 weeks.

Hope everything goes well
 
Just chlomid. Triptorelin will cause a high release of LH and FSH wich may be high enough to let your system need time to recover those hormones. Ne versicels must build up. If you take a drug that causes a higher amout of LH and FSH release right after you may actually crash the system.
It could work out fine, but the risk isn't low enough.

Either just get off the drugs and see if it normalizes (what it actually should if you are right about being not shut down), take Triptorelin and then stay a time off of drugs, or take a SERM and stay on for a longer period of time and taper down slowly.

Either way, I would advise you to stay off of anything for some time to get blood work at a point where no drug is in action. If your HPTA did recover your balls willalso this way. If not, you are at least sure, know exactly how much damage was done and can take actiom in a calculated manner.
 
Thank you so much ill keep you update!!!

What do you mean by "Ne versicels must build up"

And if y chose tripto , i got 2 x 100 Mcg. Should i use both of them . Like use one and wait for 1 week then the other and stop every thing ? Or one should be enough

And now after all that hcg my lh and fsh must be low.. i might be shut down even if i wasnt before !
 
I would only try one.

I did tip too fast. There should be written "new vesicles". Vesicles are little lipid-bubbles inside the cells that have different contents. In glandular tissues the hormones are formed and then stored in versicles until the release is triggered. This way huge amounts of molecules can be released at once and usually there are enough versicles left to let the system react to new signals anytime.
Triptorelin however will release more than the body normally ever would. If you now stress the system too much there will be no vesicles left resulting in complete failure of the system. Recovery would be destroyed and it would take some time till the system can even be tried to be rebootet.
 
Aight ! As I told , i already tried 6 weeks of serms with no result, im affraid that it will have the same effect .Ill keep you all update thx for your
 
And do you have any idea why im that strong? I just gained all the Power i had when i was on. And why my nuts are like that?
 
Not really. Strength could be related to weight or just to the new aquired muscle mass you learn to operate better neurally due to more further training. Also adrogens only play a relatively small role in direct interactions. Guys without test can be freaking strong as well.

The Ball position could be related to the prostate altering the position of the vas deferens. Or the hormonal fluctuations causing the vas deferens to kind of contract.
Latter is the reason I think staying off anything will help you best for the moment.
 
Once i started the hcg my Power just got to the roof. And why my prostate would have change of shape lol ? I suspect that maybe it could be related because i had semen in my urine 2 time the last month.. i had pain to the "cords" attached to the nuts



Im so ****ing scared

Ill stay off of every thing , ill keep you update and seriously thank you ! Are you in the medical field
 
Takes about 3 months minimum for you to be your old self down there. Just my.02. I once read that the sperm you are producing now was made @ 3 months ago. Sure, you take some HCG or boosters you will sometimes swell them, but they are not what you had naturally production wise. Just because fsh and lh look good does not mean the balls are fully ready to respond. Avoid hot baths, some guys rub iodine on their sack etc... Time is the fixer.
 
Anvil72 said:
Takes about 3 months minimum for you to be your old self down there. Just my.02. I once read that the sperm you are producing now was made @ 3 months ago. Sure, you take some HCG or boosters you will sometimes swell them, but they are not what you had naturally production wise. Just because fsh and lh look good does not mean the balls are fully ready to respond. Avoid hot baths, some guys rub iodine on their sack etc... Time is the fixer.
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No. After 3 years they are clearly dead. Within or out of the body no spermium will live that long.
 
benjpress said:
Once i started the hcg my Power just got to the roof. And why my prostate would have change of shape lol ? I suspect that maybe it could be related because i had semen in my urine 2 time the last month.. i had pain to the "cords" attached to the nuts



Im so ****ing scared

Ill stay off of every thing , ill keep you update and seriously thank you ! Are you in the medical field
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The prostate usually enlarges on cycle to some degree. Thats totally common. Few steroids like Madol where you don't have to worry about that.

Kind of. I'm biologist specialising in molecular cell biology. But I also took part in a very good class of developmental biology wich covered a good amount of sperm and leydig cells microscopy and of course the mechanisms behind. In conjunction with some interest in endocrinology I happen to know a few things.

Most biologists in the molecular or genetics field know more about how the body is usually functioning than a medical doctor, but they usually just know jack **** about diseases and how to diagnose without killing the subject.

With one of the post docs in my lab it would probably be easy to find exactly what you have, with an autopsy and a few cell cultures that is ^^
 
Do you think with time my dincomfort will go away and my testicles will get normal again ? The cords attached to hurt and i had semen in my urine last week ... i hope i didnt **** anything



How much time would you wait before i strat clomid or tripto


Thank you very much
 
The urologist found out that i have an hernia . The hernia is affecting the genitofemoral nerve.The genitofemoral nerve is responsible for both the sensory (femoral branch) and motor portions (genital branch) of the cremasteric reflex. This is why my scrotum is always tight and i have pain.
 
Heres my BW While on hcg 1000ED wih aromasin.... Look like my nuts are ok! :) but E2 was high.... I just shoot my tripto last week ill ge blood soon


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