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GH: Yay or Nay?

MESSPLAY said:
muscleguy how's your giant stack going?
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Unfortunately, my finances had to go towards legal fees, which sucks. I'm starting my new job sometime within the next week or so, so I'll definitely be getting back into the gym once I start work. I'll be working as a security officer for the Air Force Base where I live. I'll be licensed by New York State. I'm taking Defensive Tactics courses and all, but I'll only be working this job until August. I'll be 21 then and I'll be going into the NYS DOC. I know I aced my civil service exam. I'm very anxious to start the stack, though. I just need to be able to finish getting everything and renewing my gym membership.
 
Real, expensive, GH (although I've never tried it myself) is extremely effective (and expensive, as I said before). All the sprays, or cheap oral gh products are worthless. Stuff like Powerfull works to increase the body's natural production of GH, but the effects on each individual vary quite a bit.
 
Dancebot 2000 said:
Real, expensive, GH (although I've never tried it myself) is extremely effective (and expensive, as I said before). All the sprays, or cheap oral gh products are worthless. Stuff like Powerfull works to increase the body's natural production of GH, but the effects on each individual vary quite a bit.
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Do you have to inject real, genuine GH?
 
PGHt - awesome, two thumbs up. Good luck buying it now. :(

Somnidren GH - just started taking it, but so far sleep is amazing. We'll see if I get any signs pointing to GH release.
 
poison said:
PGHt - awesome, two thumbs up. Good luck buying it now. :(

Somnidren GH - just started taking it, but so far sleep is amazing. We'll see if I get any signs pointing to GH release.
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I have Somnidren GH on my 'to do' list. I have for a while now.

I'll look into PGHt. You can find anything online, if you look hard enough. I'd like an effective way of taking GH in some other way of application, rather than playing around with needles and injecting myself. Or, at least a way of significantly increasing my own natural production of GH. Injection wouldn't be a problem, seeing as how I have friends who work at the local hospital, even labotomists, but I'd just rather not play around with needles.
 
All GH products/supps that arent injectable real GH, arent gonna give you near the same effects. Yes they will help mood and sleep and all that, but injectable GH is in a class by itself.

Is there a reason why you are lookin around at GH products? Being 21, your GH levels are still pretty high and you wouldnt benefit as much from GH as some older folks.
 
Dancebot 2000 said:
It generally, is not orally bioavailable.
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Well, there are a few things which hinder the increase of natural GH output. One of them, as you have mentioned, is the oral bioavailability of said phyto, enzyme, etc., But the second, and more important aspect, is the ability of the product to stimulate the Hypothalamatic-Pituitary axis of dopamine-GH agonism, which is in itself mediated through a large diffusion of the blood brain barrier.

To that end, the research would disagree with your statement

All the sprays, or cheap oral gh products are worthless.
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Especially as it pertains to products utilizing Mucuna (ours and others).

Nippon Naibunpi Gakkai Zasshi. 1987 Aug 20;63(8):934-46. Links
[Effect of oral administration of L-dopa on the plasma levels of growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH) in normal subjects and patients with various endocrine and metabolic diseases][Article in Japanese]
Mitsuhashi S, Yamasaki R, Miyazaki S, Saito H, Saito S.
First Department of Internal Medicine, School of Medicine, University of Tokushima, Japan.

The responses of plasma growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH) and growth hormone (GH) to oral administration of L-dopa were studied in normal subjects and patients with various endocrine and metabolic diseases to clarify the pathophysiological role of the GHRH-GH axis. In normal subjects, the plasma GHRH concentration was increased from the basal value of 9.8 +/- 1.4 pg/ml (mean +/- SE) to 34.8 +/- 3.1 pg/ml at 30 approximately 90 min after oral administration of 500 mg L-dopa, followed by a rise of GH release (plasma GH level from less than 1 ng/ml to 21.7 +/- 4.7 ng/ml) in most cases, indicating that L-dopa stimulates GH secretion via hypothalamic GHRH. On L-dopa administration, no apparent increases in both plasma GHRH and GH concentrations were observed in patients with hypothalamic hypopituitarism, whereas GHRH administration induced almost normal GH response. In patients with acromegaly, the plasma levels of GHRH remained stationary after the L-dopa administration and did not correlate with plasma GH levels. In subjects with simple obesity, the responses of plasma GHRH (peak 13.2 +/- 1.2 pg/ml) and GH (peak 4.3 +/- 1.7 ng/ml) to L-dopa were significantly lower than those in normal subjects (p less than 0.01). In patients with primary hypothyroidism, peak levels of plasma GHRH (12.6 +/- 1.3 pg/ml) and GH (2.4 +/- 0.6 ng/ml) were significantly lower than those in normal subjects (p less than 0.01). In patients with non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus (NIDDM), the responses of GHRH and GH were divided into 2 groups; in the responder the peak values of GHRH and GH were 19.4 +/- 8.6 pg/ml and 12.2 +/- 1.4 ng/ml and in the low or non responder 14.7 +/- 1.5 pg/ml and 2.0 +/- 0.6 ng/ml, respectively. Between both groups, there was a significant difference in the values of fasting blood sugar and HbA1 and mean suffering period. These findings suggest that GH secretion evoked by the L-dopa administration is induced by GHRH released from the hypothalamus, and impairment of GH secretion associated with simple obesity, primary hypothyroidism, or NIDDM may be in part attributed to insufficiency of GHRH release from the hypothalamus, and indicate that L-dopa test is clinically useful for evaluating the ability of intrinsic GHRH release in such diseased states.
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Now, this study used synthetic L-DOPA, while natural sources of L-DOPA have been shown to cross the blood brain barrier at over 200% the rate of synthetic L-DOPA. Evidence in the following:

Mucuna pruriens in Parkinson's disease: a double blind clinical and pharmacological study.

* Katzenschlager R,
* Evans A,
* Manson A,
* Patsalos PN,
* Ratnaraj N,
* Watt H,
* Timmermann L,
* Van der Giessen R,
* Lees AJ.

National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery, London, UK.

BACKGROUND: The seed powder of the leguminous plant, Mucuna pruriens has long been used in traditional Ayurvedic Indian medicine for diseases including parkinsonism. We have assessed the clinical effects and levodopa (L-dopa) pharmacokinetics following two different doses of mucuna preparation and compared them with standard L-dopa/carbidopa (LD/CD). METHODS: Eight Parkinson's disease patients with a short duration L-dopa response and on period dyskinesias completed a randomised, controlled, double blind crossover trial. Patients were challenged with single doses of 200/50 mg LD/CD, and 15 and 30 g of mucuna preparation in randomised order at weekly intervals. L-dopa pharmacokinetics were determined, and Unified Parkinson's Disease Rating Scale and tapping speed were obtained at baseline and repeatedly during the 4 h following drug ingestion. Dyskinesias were assessed using modified AIMS and Goetz scales. RESULTS: Compared with standard LD/CD, the 30 g mucuna preparation led to a considerably faster onset of effect (34.6 v 68.5 min; p = 0.021), reflected in shorter latencies to peak L-dopa plasma concentrations. Mean on time was 21.9% (37 min) longer with 30 g mucuna than with LD/CD (p = 0.021); peak L-dopa plasma concentrations were 110% higher and the area under the plasma concentration v time curve (area under curve) was 165.3% larger (p = 0.012). No significant differences in dyskinesias or tolerability occurred. CONCLUSIONS: The rapid onset of action and longer on time without concomitant increase in dyskinesias on mucuna seed powder formulation suggest that this natural source of L-dopa might possess advantages over conventional L-dopa preparations in the long term management of PD. Assessment of long term efficacy and tolerability in a randomised, controlled study is warranted.
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Beans (Mucuna Pruriens) For Parkinson?s Disease:
An Herbal Alternative

Bala V. Manyam, M.D., NPF Center of Excellence Plummer Movement Disorders Center Department of Neurology
Glenn R. Cryer, Scientific Publications and Biomedical Communications
Scott & White Clinic and Texas A&M University Health Science System College of Medicine


.....To establish how Mucuna would compare to synthetic L-DOPA, experiments were undertaken in animal models of Parkinson?s disease. Two different doses of synthetic L-DOPA and two different doses of Mucuna were administered making sure that the amount of L-DOPA present is the same in Mucuna as was the doses of synthetic L-DOPA. The effects of the drugs were tested using a specially designed instrument called "Rotometer." Dose for dose, Mucuna was two to three times more effective than equivalent amounts of synthetic L-DOPA. This suggests that Mucuna may contain compounds that make L-DOPA function better such as carbidopa, tolcapone (Tasmar), or entacapone (COMTan). It may also suggest that Mucuna independently improve symptoms of Parkinson?s disease. Although quite encouraging, more research is needed to confirm these findings. This work was done at the time when the United States Congress established the Office of Alternative Medicine in the National Institute of Health and the work was one of the first to receive funding for alternative medicine....
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Neuroprotective effects of the antiparkinson drug Mucuna pruriens.

* Manyam BV,
* Dhanasekaran M,
* Hare TA.

Department of Neurology, Health Science Center College of Medicine, Temple, TX 76508, USA. [email protected]

Mucuna pruriens possesses significantly higher antiparkinson activity compared with levodopa in the 6-hydroxydopamine (6-OHDA) lesioned rat model of Parkinson's disease. The present study evaluated the neurorestorative effect of Mucuna pruriens cotyledon powder on the nigrostriatal tract of 6-OHDA lesioned rats. Mucuna pruriens cotyledon powder significantly increased the brain mitochondrial complex-I activity but did not affect the total monoamine oxidase activity (in vitro). Unlike synthetic levodopa treatment, Mucuna pruriens cotyledon powder treatment significantly restored the endogenous levodopa, dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin content in the substantia nigra. Nicotine adenine dinucleotide (NADH) and coenzyme Q-10, that are shown to have a therapeutic benefit in Parkinson's disease, were present in the Mucuna pruriens cotyledon powder. Earlier studies showed that Mucuna pruriens treatment controls the symptoms of Parkinson's disease. This additional finding of a neurorestorative benefit by Mucuna pruriens cotyledon powder on the degenerating dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra may be due to increased complex-I activity and the presence of NADH and coenzyme Q-10. Copyright (c) 2004 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

PMID: 15478206 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Now, I am not going to go through all the pharmacokinetics and number crunching to delineate how our Mucuna extract is standardized to 'X' amount of L-DOPA. I have already had that argument several times, and if you wish to see it, look here:

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Suffice to say though, the research for PowerFULL is there. So, worthless? Hardly. That statement is far too broad and sweeping to be considered legitimate. If Mucuna is good enough to be endorsed (though, cautiously) by peer-reviewed, double-blind studies as a possible candidate for an alternative cure for Parkinson's, it should pass your rigorous endorsement (just joking buddy).

I suppose though, this invariably raises the question of why it does not have a 100% efficacy rate, or results comparable to synthetic GH. While those are questions slightly too in-depth to be discussed here, they come down to two basic issues; the first, the one you mentioned of oral bioavailability (though with the abundancy of L-DOPA in Mucuna, this is overcome somewhat); the second being tolerance.
 
Mullet, wouldn't/couldn't some of the ineffectiveness of PowerFull/L-dopa be attributed to the average users eating habits? Most guys who are taking it eat right before bed, and some have carbs in their systems, which could interfere with GH release?

Most bodybuilders won't want to eat their last meal 2-3 hours before bed.
 
poison said:
Mullet, wouldn't/couldn't some of the ineffectiveness of PowerFull/L-dopa be attributed to the average users eating habits? Most guys who are taking it eat right before bed, and some have carbs in their systems, which could interfere with GH release?

Most bodybuilders won't want to eat their last meal 2-3 hours before bed.
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As long as PowerFULL is taken 1 hour after carbohydrate consumption it will work. The HGH peaks for 90 minutes so just in time for the next meal.
 
poison said:
Mullet, wouldn't/couldn't some of the ineffectiveness of PowerFull/L-dopa be attributed to the average users eating habits? Most guys who are taking it eat right before bed, and some have carbs in their systems, which could interfere with GH release?

Most bodybuilders won't want to eat their last meal 2-3 hours before bed.
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It's the insulin which blunts the GH response, and so as long as plasma levels have begun to clear, you're in the clear. 2-3 hours is a fairly long estimate, if you ate a meal containing carbohydrates at 9pm, by 11pm you could be fairly certain it would not effect PowerFULL. This all depends on individual glucose metabolism of course.

I think the larger issue is that PowerFULL produces short-term plasma increases of dopamine and GH, that are not sustained to the level of exogenous GH. Tolerance is also at work here, as the body adapts to the natural L-DOPA raising alkaloids in Mucuna. So, while the immediate dopamine-GH increase of PowerFULL is comparable to synthetics and pharmaceuticals, it is not sustained. Thus obviously not producing the results of a 6 month GH run.

This is not rhetoric either, the research is there. Objective measures of onset time, peak concentrations, and observed pathways through which Mucuna is raising dopamine and GH have been shown.
 
PowerFULL is already on my list. It has been. I was just reading up on GH products, then came up with the idea of how to take GH effectively, without playing with needles.

Mulletsoldier, your post was very informative. Thanks a lot! It was very interesting.
 
Mullet: I think you misunderstood me. I was refering to taking GH (in the form of oral sprays and such) directly into the system as being bio-unavailable. If you look at my first post, I mention Powerfull, and how it is a way to stimulate GH production (great product by the way, have had success with it). There are certainly orally bioavaliable ways to to increase GH naturally.
 
Dancebot 2000 said:
Mullet: I think you misunderstood me. I was refering to taking GH (in the form of oral sprays and such) directly into the system as being bio-unavailable. If you look at my first post, I mention Powerfull, and how it is a way to stimulate GH production (great product by the way, have had success with it). There are certainly orally bioavaliable ways to to increase GH naturally.
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Oops, sorry buddy.

:cheers:
 
Mulletsoldier said:
It's the insulin which blunts the GH response, and so as long as plasma levels have begun to clear, you're in the clear. 2-3 hours is a fairly long estimate, if you ate a meal containing carbohydrates at 9pm, by 11pm you could be fairly certain it would not effect PowerFULL. This all depends on individual glucose metabolism of course.

I think the larger issue is that PowerFULL produces short-term plasma increases of dopamine and GH, that are not sustained to the level of exogenous GH. Tolerance is also at work here, as the body adapts to the natural L-DOPA raising alkaloids in Mucuna. So, while the immediate dopamine-GH increase of PowerFULL is comparable to synthetics and pharmaceuticals, it is not sustained. Thus obviously not producing the results of a 6 month GH run.

This is not rhetoric either, the research is there. Objective measures of onset time, peak concentrations, and observed pathways through which Mucuna is raising dopamine and GH have been shown.
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With synthetic HGH you get insulin resistance so if you go that route, you need some Anabolic pump.

I'm biased but if you look at the negative side of synthetic HGH. PowerFULL becomes much more attractive.
 
USPLabs said:
With synthetic HGH you get insulin resistance so if you go that route, you need some Anabolic pump.

I'm biased but if you look at the negative side of synthetic HGH. PowerFULL becomes much more attractive.
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The cost, as well, is a huge reason PowerFULL is more atractive.
 
Dancebot 2000 said:
No harm. You're still my boy.:cheers:
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Someone posted and deleted the post stating all HGH products are garbage. Mullet was addressing the vanished post and quoted you by accident..

no worries dancebot NO MORE SUPPLEMENTS FOR mullet.
:rofl:
 
USPLabs said:
Someone posted and deleted the post stating all HGH products are garbage. Mullet was addressing the vanished post and quoted you by accident..

no worries dancebot NO MORE SUPPLEMENTS FOR mullet.
:rofl:
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Like I said, no harm, baby. Mullet and USP are always cool with me.
 
MuscleGuyinNY said:
So, pure GH can only be injected?
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To my knowledge yes. The good stuff anyway. I have never heard of a script based gel or cap? One of my buddies administers it with a gun like device. He dials in how many CCs he wants and pulls the trigger. Works like a charm for him. IT is far too expensive for me to ever try. Unless I suddenly have lots of cash lying around. He has a form of dwarfism, so it is prescribed to him. What a lucky bastage.
 
I have to say. I love doing a GH stack for awhile, but it does give minimal results. Ive been looking into more "serious" solutions for this and proven ones.
I DO have in my cart, Theanine, Somnidren, GABA and contemplating ZMK/MVP stack.
I used to use Melatonin, GABA and 5HTP and thats was good sleep and went fiarly well, cant say i saw results of GH production but i did feel great and was a bit more full.

And yes, anytime you are trying to increase GH you dont want carbs within the hour. I try ot cut off carbs asap at night pending on work schedule.
 
USPLabs said:
Someone posted and deleted the post stating all HGH products are garbage. Mullet was addressing the vanished post and quoted you by accident..

no worries dancebot NO MORE SUPPLEMENTS FOR mullet.
:rofl:
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That doesn't bode well for me, considering our disgusting year coming!!

:djparty:
 
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