Unanswered Gearing up to start first Test Cyp cycle. Help please?

[DLL333]

Hey guys. I actually used to belong to this forum back in the glory days of prohormones (Primordial Performance and the like). Anyway, 34 M here and I'm getting back into lifting after an injury hiatus, and got a good contact that hooked me up with Test Cyp 300 and some Clomid (I trust the source). I'm also going to be running Blockade Cycle Support and my diet will be in check.
Like I said, I've done a slew of prohormones, but it's been a minute, and this will be my first injectable cycle ever. He suggested 1ml (300mg) every 3 days, which to me sounds INSANE. That's his dosing, but he's a monster. Obviously I need to get my test levels checked to get a definitive answer, and I will very soon prior to starting this, but what would be a more reasonable dose that's kinda more in the vicinity of what TRT patients do? My goal is find that sweet spot where I can maintain test levels that are the very upper edge of what would be considered normal (1000-1100 ng/dl) Again, I know it varies wildly from person to person depending on a ton of factors and it's impossible to determine without knowing my current levels, but what would be a ballpark dose/timing to start with? Weekly? Every few days?

Also, is the clomid to be run along side the test cyp to prevent aromatization, or as part of a PCT? Clomid is something else I've never used.

Hopefully I'm making even a little bit of sense here, if not, I apologize. I'm just trying to get a handle on everything before I start this so I don't screw it up.

 

[Renew1]

How long were you thinking of running this?

 

[DLL333]

I was thinking 8 weeks?

 

[Renew1]

I was thinking 8 weeks?

Well, TRT levels probably won't do a lot for you (depending on what your levels are now).
Real growth (above normal) usually requires higher than normal hormone levels.
... And you'll want to weigh out if it's worth messing with your natural hormonal production ability. As we age, it generally gets easier to screw it up.

I'm not saying don't do it (at all). Just weigh it out. That's what I do.

 

[MuscleTechnician]

300mg 2x a week so 600mg a week is a good dose for gain. (500-800/week) I'd stay clear of 800 though lol.

Take clomid for PCT a week after your last injection.

On cycle support such as a SERM or AI may not be needed, but if so just take a very small amount of an AI 3x a week.

 

[DLL333]

Ah ok. I was under the impression that Test Cyp has some significant aromatization? Maybe run a lower dose arimastane alongside?

 

[Matthersby]

What he suggested is fine. Test is pretty damn slow building unless you get to the 600+ range. You may actually notice improvements week 3/4 until the end. 8 weeks is gonna not be too amazing bc you will really be starting to see some gains by then. 12 is standard. That being said, in your mid 30’s, maybe after this one, consider running short esters for 8 weeks and stay suppressed for shorter periods. I wish I had.

 

[Mathb33]

Ah ok. I was under the impression that Test Cyp has some significant aromatization? Maybe run a lower dose arimastane alongside?

Only a few people can run high test without an AI and they’re lucky. I’m really not prone to estrogen sides and on 500mg + I need an ai. On 600mg you’ll almost certainly need it.

 

[Mathb33]

I was thinking 8 weeks?

8 weeks would be ideal for shorter ester but wouldn’t make much sense on test E or C. Takes several weeks for your test levels to build up and you’d reach a peak week 4-5. If you already bought a longer ester I’d go for 10-12 weeks but as mentioned above I’d stick to short ester and shorter cycles in the future if you don’t wanna hand up with shitty levels in 2-3 years.

 

[DLL333]

Ah ok. I understand. Takes time for Cyp to kick in so 12 weeks makes a lot more sense, and unless my test levels are in the absolute gutter, a low dose is pretty much wasting gear, so his suggestions were pretty much on the level.

So 500-600mg Test Cyp/week
Arimastane (maybe 50mg a day?)
Blockade Cycle Support

...and JUST clomid for PCT?

How does this look so far?

 

[Renew1]

Ah ok. I understand. Takes time for Cyp to kick in so 12 weeks makes a lot more sense, and unless my test levels are in the absolute gutter, a low dose is pretty much wasting gear, so his suggestions were pretty much on the level.

So 500-600mg Test Cyp/week
Arimastane (maybe 50mg a day?)
Blockade Cycle Support

...and JUST clomid for PCT?

How does this look so far?

You need to have a real AI on hand, not an over the counter product like Arimistane.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Ah ok. I was under the impression that Test Cyp has some significant aromatization? Maybe run a lower dose arimastane alongside?

Ok I've heard that cyp aromatizes the least because of its longer half life?

 

[Bintherduntht]

Hey guys. I actually used to belong to this forum back in the glory days of prohormones (Primordial Performance and the like). Anyway, 34 M here and I'm getting back into lifting after an injury hiatus, and got a good contact that hooked me up with Test Cyp 300 and some Clomid (I trust the source). I'm also going to be running Blockade Cycle Support and my diet will be in check.
Like I said, I've done a slew of prohormones, but it's been a minute, and this will be my first injectable cycle ever. He suggested 1ml (300mg) every 3 days, which to me sounds INSANE. That's his dosing, but he's a monster. Obviously I need to get my test levels checked to get a definitive answer, and I will very soon prior to starting this, but what would be a more reasonable dose that's kinda more in the vicinity of what TRT patients do? My goal is find that sweet spot where I can maintain test levels that are the very upper edge of what would be considered normal (1000-1100 ng/dl) Again, I know it varies wildly from person to person depending on a ton of factors and it's impossible to determine without knowing my current levels, but what would be a ballpark dose/timing to start with? Weekly? Every few days?

Also, is the clomid to be run along side the test cyp to prevent aromatization, or as part of a PCT? Clomid is something else I've never used.

Hopefully I'm making even a little bit of sense here, if not, I apologize. I'm just trying to get a handle on everything before I start this so I don't screw it up.

How many bottles do you have? Just the one?

I think 600mgs a week will give you great results that you will be very happy with. I recently switched to cyp from sustanon. I was cruising on sust for awhile like 4 months. I switched to cyp and the beginning was very rough for me. I was used to injecting the sust and having the prop kick in right away giving that test increase almost the same day.

The cyp took a couple weeks to kick in. So those first two weeks I felt like I wasn't on anything. It was the sust leaving my body and the cyp having to build up. Looking back, I should have front loaded the first week. But I think you will be fine since your not switching from anything. Its your first. Your receptors are fresh and ready to rock!

The first week or two you could do it every 3 days to get it in your system faster. Or, if you have the patience, just shoot 300 Monday and 300 Thursday. Your levels will gradually build but it will take weeks until your body is on a stable level of test.

That's why you want to run the longer half lives for longer time. 12 weeks for cyp. If it was prop, you could get away with 6-8 weeks. I personally love cyp because the half life is longer equaling less injection frequency. When you have been doing it as long as I have, the damn scar tissue builds up and you run out of places to shoot lol.

Here's the thing with AIs and estrogen. For some reason people think estro is the devil and must be destroyed. But estro is crucial for muscle gain and libido as well as other functions of the body. Estro is what gives your muscles that size. I do not use AIs on cycle. Ever. Only nolvadex and only if my nips start getting itchy/puffy. And I am extremely prone to gyno. Its just a safety precaution. You don't need Arimidex, letro, aromasin etc. Just nolva or clomid(I have no experience with Clomid, never needed it). And only if gyno starts or for pct.

TLDR: 600mgs a week for 12 weeks. Nolvadex on hand for gyno and pct.

 

[Mathb33]

Excuse me but what a terrible advice are you telling a novice that an ai is not needed lol... some very lucky people don’t need an AI but that’s really not common. I’m really not prone to estrogen sides and at 500mg + I need an AI. You say estrogen is needed during a cycle to build muscle and you’re right. You wanna keep your E In the 30s to benefits the advantages of estrogen without having all its side effects. I hardly doubt many people can stay within healthy E levels on 600mg test and I’m pretty sure you’re the type of guy who says he doesn’t need an AI just because he doesn’t get gyno or pimples but you probably never get bloodwork done to actually see where your E at and it’s probably sky high which is really not healthy. Anyways you do you, OP I just wouldn’t listen to that. He’s right though that people take too much AI too fast because they’re scared of E and that crushing it is bad.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Excuse me but what a terrible advice are you telling a novice that an ai is not needed lol... some very lucky people don’t need an AI but that’s really not common. I’m really not prone to estrogen sides and at 500mg + I need an AI. You say estrogen is needed during a cycle to build muscle and you’re right. You wanna keep your E In the 30s to benefits the advantages of estrogen without having all its side effects. I hardly doubt many people can stay within healthy E levels on 600mg test and I’m pretty sure you’re the type of guy who says he doesn’t need an AI just because he doesn’t get gyno or pimples but you probably never get bloodwork done to actually see where your E at and it’s probably sky high which is really not healthy. Anyways you do you, OP I just wouldn’t listen to that. He’s right though that people take too much AI too fast because they’re scared of E and that crushing it is bad.

For a 12 week cycle I do not think it will have much impact on his estrogen levels. He can go get bloods, and if its too high then he has the option if he wants to take an AI to lower. Not everyone who cycles gets blood work done. I'm pretty sure most guys who do a cycle and come off are not getting blood work.

But I will take your word for it. Maybe I will get some blood work and see where I'm at. Guess I'm just oldschool

 

[Mathb33]

For a 12 week cycle I do not think it will have much impact on his estrogen levels. He can go get bloods, and if its too high then he has the option if he wants to take an AI to lower. Not everyone who cycles gets blood work done. I'm pretty sure most guys who do a cycle and come off are not getting blood work.

But I will take your word for it. Maybe I will get some blood work and see where I'm at. Guess I'm just oldschool

Trust me a couple of weeks is more than enough to have your estrogen completly out of range lol. But youre completly right a lot of people don’t get bloodwork done that’s the problem.. they go on the internet and spit a load of **** and then people read that and here we are in 2019...

 

[khall1974]

How many bottles do you have? Just the one?

I think 600mgs a week will give you great results that you will be very happy with. I recently switched to cyp from sustanon. I was cruising on sust for awhile like 4 months. I switched to cyp and the beginning was very rough for me. I was used to injecting the sust and having the prop kick in right away giving that test increase almost the same day.

The cyp took a couple weeks to kick in. So those first two weeks I felt like I wasn't on anything. It was the sust leaving my body and the cyp having to build up. Looking back, I should have front loaded the first week. But I think you will be fine since your not switching from anything. Its your first. Your receptors are fresh and ready to rock!

The first week or two you could do it every 3 days to get it in your system faster. Or, if you have the patience, just shoot 300 Monday and 300 Thursday. Your levels will gradually build but it will take weeks until your body is on a stable level of test.

That's why you want to run the longer half lives for longer time. 12 weeks for cyp. If it was prop, you could get away with 6-8 weeks. I personally love cyp because the half life is longer equaling less injection frequency. When you have been doing it as long as I have, the damn scar tissue builds up and you run out of places to shoot lol.

Here's the thing with AIs and estrogen. For some reason people think estro is the devil and must be destroyed. But estro is crucial for muscle gain and libido as well as other functions of the body. Estro is what gives your muscles that size. I do not use AIs on cycle. Ever. Only nolvadex and only if my nips start getting itchy/puffy. And I am extremely prone to gyno. Its just a safety precaution. You don't need Arimidex, letro, aromasin etc. Just nolva or clomid(I have no experience with Clomid, never needed it). And only if gyno starts or for pct.

TLDR: 600mgs a week for 12 weeks. Nolvadex on hand for gyno and pct.

What is your e2 levels on cycle?

 

[Mathb33]

What is your e2 levels on cycle?

He said he does not do bloodwork

 

[khall1974]

He said he does not do bloodwork

Just asking cause my levels ranged between 23 and 42 while on. Bumped my test up and had to adjust ai. Felt zero difference either way...libido and gains continued. Getting bloodwork tomorrow...finished 7 weeks.

 

[Mathb33]

Just asking cause my levels ranged between 23 and 42 while on. Bumped my test up and had to adjust ai. Felt zero difference either way...libido and gains continued. Getting bloodwork tomorrow...finished 7 weeks.

Well it’s typical mid to mid high range which is the sweet spot to be in... imo the best to be in is between 30 and 40. Some ppl rather be in the 20s which is fine too.

 

[Whisky]

Well it’s typical mid to mid high range which is the sweet spot to be in... imo the best to be in is between 30 and 40. Some ppl rather be in the 20s which is fine too.

Mike Arnold has been speaking about this on beast fitness radio recently......lots of people (who get regular bloods) letting e get up to 60 or 70 nowadays and according to Mike that’s the correct approach as long as gyro isn’t appearing. Me personally I seem to get sensitive nipples off 300mg test a week and last kid cycle bloods my e was 880 (uk measurements - that’s pretty high), at the time I was using a low dose ai

 

[Mathb33]

That’s pretty interesting I hope I can find it somewhere tonight if I google it or something

 

[DLL333]

I have 3 bottles of the Test Cyp 300, enough for a 12 week run of 300mg every 3 days. I just took a pic of the one.
Yeah I would prefer to take an AI at that dose, I think it would definitely be needed. If not something like Arimistane, would the clomid I have on hand work alongside the cycle for an AI, as well as a PCT?

 

[Matthersby]

Mike Arnold has been speaking about this on beast fitness radio recently......lots of people (who get regular bloods) letting e get up to 60 or 70 nowadays and according to Mike that’s the correct approach as long as gyro isn’t appearing. Me personally I seem to get sensitive nipples off 300mg test a week and last kid cycle bloods my e was 880 (uk measurements - that’s pretty high), at the time I was using a low dose ai

Overcontrolling AI on estrogenic or aromatizing compounds cripples gains.
When many talk here about raised estro, I look at it differently. I control estro 100% to combat gyno. I don’t care about bloat while bulking, and I don’t care about increased libido, I don’t LOVE crying more often but I can always pretend something’s in my eye tho.

 

[Matthersby]

Obviously there’s problems with very high estro and then prolactin issues can come along, but highish estro is not the villain everyone makes it out to be.

 

[khall1974]

Obviously there’s problems with very high estro and then prolactin issues can come along, but highish estro is not the villain everyone makes it out to be.

I agree completely with you guys. The trick is dialing in your ai.

 

[DLL333]

Ok... so obviously some mixed responses here, and that's a good thing. Don't tank estrogen by going Nazi with an AI on cycle. Right. 2 questions...

1. So, IF I'm to use an AI on cycle, if Arimistane wouldn't be worth my time, what would be an ideal choice, and a not-overboard dose?

2. As far as a PCT goes, could I use Clomid combined with a strong natural test booster? If not, what would be ideal?

Again, sorry for all the questions or making you guys feel like you're repeating yourselves, but I just don't want to make any huge mistakes and butcher this.

 

[Whisky]

Overcontrolling AI on estrogenic or aromatizing compounds cripples gains.
When many talk here about raised estro, I look at it differently. I control estro 100% to combat gyno. I don’t care about bloat while bulking, and I don’t care about increased libido, I don’t LOVE crying more often but I can always pretend something’s in my eye tho.

From what I’m seeing ralox (or nolva) would be a better option if the goal is purely gyno prevention....

 

[Bintherduntht]

Ok so I should get blood work done? What does too high estrogen feel like? Would I know or only the tests would reveal it?

I'm just following in the footsteps of old fashioned guys. The main guy I've been getting stuff from has been on 20 years and never told me about getting bloods. But it probably would be smart to since I've been on so long?

Not to derail your thread OP.
But I've never had blood work and these guys are saying its important and I'm getting older lol

 

[Bintherduntht]

Ok... so obviously some mixed responses here, and that's a good thing. Don't tank estrogen by going Nazi with an AI on cycle. Right. 2 questions...

1. So, IF I'm to use an AI on cycle, if Arimistane wouldn't be worth my time, what would be an ideal choice, and a not-overboard dose?

2. As far as a PCT goes, could I use Clomid combined with a strong natural test booster? If not, what would be ideal?

Again, sorry for all the questions or making you guys feel like you're repeating yourselves, but I just don't want to make any huge mistakes and butcher this.

For estro control, nolvadex works great.

But, these guys are saying you need a suicide inhibitor correct? That would be the AIs. There are like 4 main ones OP. You can google them. They all lower total estrogen in the body at different rates. Letro I think is the strongest killing like 90% of your estrogen. I'm guessing that would be for an EXTREMELY wet cycle haha.

So I would pick the AI with the lowest rate since you don't want to nuke all the estro. The dosing I know is e3d and dosages are around .25

For PCT, nolvadex also stimulates LH (luteinizing hormone) in the testes to jump start your natural test. I can feel the test increase from nolva and its documented that it raises natty test

 

[Jinsun]

Okey, lot's of misdirection and pseudo advice here. Let me help make things clear.

1. On 500mg's of test people usually need app 12.5mg's of aromasin a day. some might need 25mg's ed. It depends on person to person.

2. Out of the pharma grade Ai's only aromasin (ie. exemestane) is suicidal. Letro and arimidex are type 2 Ai's.

3. You need estrogen but how much you can handle depends on person to person. I start getting bad skin on above 25 and at 40 and above I get to bloated and that starts pressuring a nerve in my left scalpula and doesn't help with pumps in the gym at all. Plus, why would you wanna get all bloated up and look like a stupid roided up mofo...??

4. Testoreno cyp has peak absorption at 12h. It absorps really quickly. It's terminal half life is 6 to 8 days, but that's terminal half life not absorption half life! So what this means is that in two weeks time, you are basically 90% there, regarding steady plasma levels of testosterone. And yes, you will feel it the first day you pin it. I feel it like a wave of freshness (lol) the same day I pin. That's the first pin of the cycle.

5. Test starts arometising immediately. So start using your Ai in the first week of the cycle or wait for the start of the second one if you wish.

6. Your current testosterone blood levels don't matter at all as your natural test production will completely shutdown once you start pinning test.

7. Clomid is a serm and it's point is to help bring your natural test production back after you stop pinning test. It's far from beeing the best Ai, as it has the most emotional sides (for most people) and for me it worsens up my skin. I would recommend tamox or toremifene. But clomid will also do.

8. It's always safe to have a serm at hand to help with possible gyno problems. The only serm that sucks for that is clomid unfortunately. The best is ralox.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Okey, lot's of misdirection and pseudo advice here. Let me help make things clear.

1. On 500mg's of test people usually need app 12.5mg's of aromasin a day. some might need 25mg's ed. It depends on person to person.

2. Out of the pharma grade Ai's only aromasin (ie. exemestane) is suicidal. Letro and arimidex are type 2 Ai's.

3. You need estrogen but how much you can handle depends on person to person. I start getting bad skin on above 25 and at 40 and above I get to bloated and that starts pressuring a nerve in my left scalpula and doesn't help with pumps in the gym at all. Plus, why would you wanna get all bloated up and look like a stupid roided up mofo...??

4. Testoreno cyp has peak absorption at 12h. It absorps really quickly. It's terminal half life is 6 to 8 days, but that's terminal half life not absorption half life! So what this means is that in two weeks time, you are basically 90% there, regarding steady plasma levels of testosterone. And yes, you will feel it the first day you pin it. I feel it like a wave of freshness (lol) the same day I pin. That's the first pin of the cycle.

5. Test starts arometising immediately. So start using your Ai in the first week of the cycle or wait for the start of the second one if you wish.

6. Your current testosterone blood levels don't matter at all as your natural test production will completely shutdown once you start pinning test.

7. Clomid is a serm and it's point is to help bring your natural test production back after you stop pinning test. It's far from beeing the best Ai, as it has the most emotional sides (for most people) and for me it worsens up my skin. I would recommend tamox or toremifene. But clomid will also do.

8. It's always safe to have a serm at hand to help with possible gyno problems. The only serm that sucks for that is clomid unfortunately. The best is ralox.

So that's how you know estro is too high? By gyno and bloat? When I use test I rarely get those side effects, and when I do, nolvadex sucks the water out and keeps me dry/no gyno

 

[Jinsun]

So that's how you know estro is too high? By gyno and bloat? When I use test I rarely get those side effects, and when I do, nolvadex sucks the water out and keeps me dry/no gyno

First is weight on the scale, then skin and bloat and pumps, etc. Gyno also, but that takes more time.

Tamox shouldn't really put the weight off should it? Don't have experience with that really or I hven't really paid attention to the scale when on tamox. Last time I took it post pct bc of rebound gyno, but I don't remember the scale moving...

 

[Bintherduntht]

First is weight on the scale, then skin and bloat and pumps, etc. Gyno also, but that takes more time.

Tamox shouldn't really put the weight off should it? Don't have experience with that really or I hven't really paid attention to the scale when on tamox. Last time I took it post pct bc of rebound gyno, but I don't remember the scale moving...

Ya man nolva sucks all the water right out for me! Makes puffy nipa disappear too. Different results for different people. That's one major thing I've found out being on this forum.

I've ran the wettest compounds on the planet and nolva always cleared everything you said up. The bloat, gyno... Never get bad skin. I see dudes running gear covered in pimples. I stopped getting acne in HS and never get I from any juice. This is why I figured my estro was in check, no estro symptoms. Still need the blood work tho. Idk what e2 does that harms your body?

 

[Jinsun]

I've ran the wettest compounds on the planet and nolva always cleared everything you said up. The bloat, gyno... Never get bad skin. I see dudes running gear covered in pimples. I stopped getting acne in HS and never get I from any juice. This is why I figured my estro was in check, no estro symptoms.

Most probably you are just not an acne prone person. I have them, cycle or no cycle...

 

[Bintherduntht]

Most probably you are just not an acne prone person. I have them, cycle or no cycle...

It could be my diet too. I am very capable of getting acne! I find drinking a TON of water helps. I don't drink any soda or alcohol. I don't eat fast food ever. And I take a lot of fish oil and detox supps a lot. If I did drink soda and ate garbage like fast food and snacks and chips etc. Then yea I would breakout. I have before. I believe its all about what you put in your body.

Do you eat healthy, drink a lot of water and take fish oil? If you don't, those things will greatly help. Drinking lots of water is constantly flushing all the toxins out. I drink milk, water, and apple juice

 

[Jinsun]

It could be my diet too. I am very capable of getting acne! I find drinking a TON of water helps. I don't drink any soda or alcohol. I don't eat fast food ever. And I take a lot of fish oil and detox supps a lot. If I did drink soda and ate garbage like fast food and snacks and chips etc. Then yea I would breakout. I have before. I believe its all about what you put in your body.

Do you eat healthy, drink a lot of water and take fish oil? If you don't, those things will greatly help. Drinking lots of water is constantly flushing all the toxins out. I drink milk, water, and apple juice

No, I don't eat especially healthy at all. When I did though, it didn't help at all. Acne are genes. The type of skin plus hormones. That's like 90%. If the type of food you eat helps you with your acne then I consider that beeing lucky.

What helps me is getting my e2 below 25. At cca 15 acne are diminished by 50% on my back and shoulders, and gone on my chest. I don't really get face acne. That happens mostly only on cycle, when I push the dosages from small to medium.

 

[DLL333]

So I'm able to get 2 weeks worth of Nolvadex for my PCT. Would 2 weeks of Nolvadex and 2 weeks of clomid work?

 

[Jinsun]

So I'm able to get 2 weeks worth of Nolvadex for my PCT. Would 2 weeks of Nolvadex and 2 weeks of clomid work?

lol

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