Future cycle (need advice) - First time real gear

[Thegoodthebad]

Hello everyone, I am new here so sorry if I make a few mistakes! I do a lot of research, but nobody is perfect the first time they try something new.

I'm 26yo, 181lbs, about 18% BF, 5'9" and I am currently doing my first cycle ever (ostarine 20mg, 8 weeks in) so I'm pretty new to the anabolics game.

My current cycle is going smoothly and ostarine is treating me well so far.
I gained 6lbs in the past 8 weeks, biggest gains in years! I am hooked. haha
I am starting my PCT in about 8 days (Clomid 25/25/25 with Arimidex 0.25mg e3d)
I know many people don't even use clomid after their SARM cycle, but from what I read on most forums it isn't safe to skip that step


Now for the cycle you want to hear about!
I will take a month break from anything but protein first and then start a Testosterone Cypionate cycle that will last for 8 to 12 weeks (I will see how it goes in terms of gains before I run this for 12 full weeks)

The cycle:
Test C - 500mg/wk
Arimidex (if necessary, but I'll probably need it)
Arimacare Pro by Olympus Labs
Musclepharm VasoSport (stim-free/creatine-free pre-workout)
Krill oil
5-HTP

The PCT
Clomid 50/50/50/50 (might continue for another week depending on my test levels)
Nolva 10/10/10/10
Arimidex (if necessary)
Super PCT by Olympus Labs
Krill oil
Wild Thing by Assault Labs (seems like a solid pre-workout)
5-HTP



Any suggestions? I want to make sure everything is perfect before I order all these

 

[Br1ck_Sh1thouse]

Hello everyone, I am new here so sorry if I make a few mistakes! I do a lot of research, but nobody is perfect the first time they try something new.

I'm 26yo, 181lbs, about 18% BF, 5'9" and I am currently doing my first cycle ever (ostarine 20mg, 8 weeks in) so I'm pretty new to the anabolics game.

My current cycle is going smoothly and ostarine is treating me well so far.
I gained 6lbs in the past 8 weeks, biggest gains in years! I am hooked. haha
I am starting my PCT in about 8 days (Clomid 25/25/25 with Arimidex 0.25mg e3d)
I know many people don't even use clomid after their SARM cycle, but from what I read on most forums it isn't safe to skip that step


Now for the cycle you want to hear about!
I will take a month break from anything but protein first and then start a Testosterone Cypionate cycle that will last for 8 to 12 weeks (I will see how it goes in terms of gains before I run this for 12 full weeks)

The cycle:
Test C - 500mg/wk
Arimidex (if necessary, but I'll probably need it)
Arimacare Pro by Olympus Labs
Musclepharm VasoSport (stim-free/creatine-free pre-workout)
Krill oil
5-HTP

The PCT
Clomid 50/50/50/50 (might continue for another week depending on my test levels)
Nolva 10/10/10/10
Arimidex (if necessary)
Super PCT by Olympus Labs
Krill oil
Wild Thing by Assault Labs (seems like a solid pre-workout)
5-HTP



Any suggestions? I want to make sure everything is perfect before I order all these

Time off = cycle time + pct time

 

[Thegoodthebad]

Good to know! I'll take a 3 months break then

I think I made it hard for people to come up with suggestions so I'll ask questions instead

1 - Would you take Arimidex twice a week or three times a week and at what dosage for a Test cycle?
2 - What do you think about my choices in terms of supplements? Anything you would swap or simply take out of the cycle?
3 - I read body fat needs to be under 15% before doing any AAS, any truth to that?
4 - Test cypionate at 500mg is enough or too much for a first cycle?
5 - Should I add taurine? Back pumps while on test c?
6 - Should I expect my sleep schedule to be messed up during this cycle? (Ostarine gave me a feeling of tirelessness the first 3 weeks and sleeping for 8 hours wasn't always possible) Should I add melatonin?
7 - Nolva dosage, should I start at 20mg?
8 - When do you start feeling the effects of test c? Right away or only after a couple weeks? (Not talking about gains but just the feeling you get after a dose or a certain period of time)

From the studies I read last night I got to the conclusion that I should go for subcutaneous injections. Easier, safer and the results are said to be the same.
I plan to dose it every Monday and Thursday at 250mg each

I hope this makes it easier for you guys to jump in the discussion

 

[Thegoodthebad]

So... all good?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Clomid 50/50/25/25 nolva 20/20/10/10. The more time off between cycles, the better; I've personally found 6 months to be good for me

 

[Thegoodthebad]

Thank for the reply!

I will make sure to see my doctor before jumping in my Test cycle and I bet he'll tell me pretty much the same thing.

It can wait anyway! I'm already happy to see that I responded well to Ostarine despite being told it was useless to even consider doing a SARM
I also need to do a cut so I might just do that while I wait for my body to recover

 

[hairygrandpa]

Subbed, gonna have a look...

 

[hairygrandpa]

The cycle:
Test C - 500mg/wk
Arimidex (if necessary, but I'll probably need it)
Arimacare Pro by Olympus Labs
Musclepharm VasoSport (stim-free/creatine-free pre-workout)
Krill oil
5-HTP

The PCT
Clomid 50/50/50/50 (might continue for another week depending on my test levels)
Nolva 10/10/10/10
Arimidex (if necessary)
Super PCT by Olympus Labs
Krill oil
Wild Thing by Assault Labs (seems like a solid pre-workout)
5-HTP



Any suggestions? I want to make sure everything is perfect before I order all these

I suspect its a bulk, right? A "kick starter" would be highly beneficial. The long ester test may kick in very late for a short 8 week cycle.
Takes me 7 weeks to "feel" 500mg test-e !
If something like D-bol is too harsh for your first cycle, stack with test prop for a couple of weeks as a kick starter.

Good advise from AnabolicGuru , go off for longer -or jump from Ostarine into your cycle if you are a "risk taker" like me.
I'm too old to need my nuts...

 

[hairygrandpa]

Good to know! I'll take a 3 months break then

I think I made it hard for people to come up with suggestions so I'll ask questions instead

1 - Would you take Arimidex twice a week or three times a week and at what dosage for a Test cycle?
2 - What do you think about my choices in terms of supplements? Anything you would swap or simply take out of the cycle?
3 - I read body fat needs to be under 15% before doing any AAS, any truth to that?
4 - Test cypionate at 500mg is enough or too much for a first cycle?
5 - Should I add taurine? Back pumps while on test c?
6 - Should I expect my sleep schedule to be messed up during this cycle? (Ostarine gave me a feeling of tirelessness the first 3 weeks and sleeping for 8 hours wasn't always possible) Should I add melatonin?
7 - Nolva dosage, should I start at 20mg?
8 - When do you start feeling the effects of test c? Right away or only after a couple weeks? (Not talking about gains but just the feeling you get after a dose or a certain period of time)

From the studies I read last night I got to the conclusion that I should go for subcutaneous injections. Easier, safer and the results are said to be the same.
I plan to dose it every Monday and Thursday at 250mg each

I hope this makes it easier for you guys to jump in the discussion

1- depends. I need 0.5mg eod minimum, other guys need nothing at all
2-ok -but watch your BP and RBC, could be you have to use BP meds and give blood to lower RBC (Red blood cell count)
3- bogus, BUT...if you fatter = more aromatization to estrogen
4-enough but needs a kicker
5- no, IMHO
6- no, IMHO
7- I would go with 40mg
8- very late into cycle
9- sub-q may leave you with "boils", go IM

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

Adjust the Ai as you need there's no standar protocol . Also if you want to kickstart and drop a little bf, then kickstart with anavar and proviron or end with it , or if you have the money kick start and finish with var.
Also add some creatine it's not bad

 

[Nac]

Some quick suggestions:

>Get pre cycle bloods. You will be grateful if you do.

>Buy a bicep cuff monitor for BP

>Dont do subq with the amount of oil youre pinning

>Try adex at 0.25mg e2d. Assess, and adjust as necessary. Some will say higher, some lower. Lots of good arguments either way but it always comes down to trial and error.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Adjust the Ai as you need there's no standar protocol . Also if you want to kickstart and drop a little bf, then kickstart with anavar and proviron or end with it , or if you have the money kick start and finish with var.
Also add some creatine it's not bad

IMHO, the cycle length of 8-12w does not allow for a cut at front -or end. He said he wanted to gain muscles, its a bulk what I understood.
Your idea of using Proviron is sound, he could incorporate it for extra e-control.

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

Well I always use proviron and I don't ever need to use Ai but that's different for everyone . The var has helped me for bulk just drop a little bf and add 2-3 kg of muscles and some vascularity.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Well I always use proviron and I don't ever need to use Ai but that's different for everyone . The var has helped me for bulk just drop a little bf and add 2-3 kg of muscles and some vascularity.

That shows AAS use is like cooking, everyone has a different recipe.

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

That shows AAS use is like cooking, everyone has a different recipe.

That's for sure grandpa I have seen a dude who is use deca only cycle and there's no shutdown !! ��

 

[hairygrandpa]

That's for sure grandpa I have seen a dude who is use deca only cycle and there's no shutdown !! ��

It was used that way on the elderly in studies. Poor old farts, they could move around better -but leaving a limp-dick-trail behind (pic).
I saw a log of a dude using: Tren/Mast/Primo for months without test... LOL

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

Hahaha crazy pic! The guy who did that must had balls ! Now he haven't ! Also see a friend got bitch tits from 250mg test only

 

[Thegoodthebad]

1- depends. I need 0.5mg eod minimum, other guys need nothing at all
2-ok -but watch your BP and RBC, could be you have to use BP meds and give blood to lower RBC (Red blood cell count)
3- bogus, BUT...if you fatter = more aromatization to estrogen
4-enough but needs a kicker
5- no, IMHO
6- no, IMHO
7- I would go with 40mg
8- very late into cycle
9- sub-q may leave you with "boils", go IM

Good info there
I was under the impression that sub-q was g2g since people under hormonal therapy are told to do it that way more and more
The usual dose for them is 250mg

Adjust the Ai as you need there's no standar protocol . Also if you want to kickstart and drop a little bf, then kickstart with anavar and proviron or end with it , or if you have the money kick start and finish with var.
Also add some creatine it's not bad

How do you dose anavar or proviron when stacked with test?

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

Proviron is on 25mg tablets I dose on 25 most people dose it on 50. You would see on the net that the var must be taken on 80-90mg a day but personally for me it did the job with only 20-30mg if it's you're first cycle I think 30mg is okay

 

[Thegoodthebad]

Proviron is on 25mg tablets I dose on 25 most people dose it on 50. You would see on the net that the var must be taken on 80-90mg a day but personally for me it did the job with only 20-30mg if it's you're first cycle I think 30mg is okay

Right, I'll read about those and I'll probably dose it at the lowest possible like you seem to suggest
I heard great things about anavar, but provirion isn't as popular

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I suspect its a bulk, right? A "kick starter" would be highly beneficial. The long ester test may kick in very late for a short 8 week cycle.
Takes me 7 weeks to "feel" 500mg test-e !
If something like D-bol is too harsh for your first cycle, stack with test prop for a couple of weeks as a kick starter.

Good advise from AnabolicGuru , go off for longer -or jump from Ostarine into your cycle if you are a "risk taker" like me.
I'm too old to need my nuts...

You made my day with "I'm too old to need mu nuts..." hahaha

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

Right, I'll read about those and I'll probably dose it at the lowest possible like you seem to suggest
I heard great things about anavar, but provirion isn't as popular

In my country is very popular every cycle have proviron and I'll explain why . Proviron here cost 2€ on pharmacy without prescription . It makes more free test available , and it's something like very mild winstrol it gives hard effect on muscles and also makes your libido touch the roof

 

[hairygrandpa]

Good info there
I was under the impression that sub-q was g2g since people under hormonal therapy are told to do it that way more and more
The usual dose for them is 250mg

Try it sub-q -and log it! I'm ready to change my opinion any time.

 

[Thegoodthebad]

Try it sub-q -and log it! I'm ready to change my opinion any time.

I will be your lab rat then!

 

[hairygrandpa]

I will be your lab rat then!

Look what happens to lab rats:

[video=youtube;I3vOOsPDHS0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3vOOsPDHS0[/video]

LOL

 

[Nac]

It is generally recommended you do not exceed 0.3-0.5ml of oil for subq inj.

250mg test per week is not a typical trt dose. If its legit trt and not bro dosing/cruising then its likely a weekly dose divided into two pins...of 0.5ml. Youll be doing two pins of 1ml.

Youre of course free to do as thou wilt, but be aware that what your are doing is unadvised.

 

[Nac]

Also, another thought...

Most (all?) of the benefits and reasons for doing subq test inj during trt, will be pretty much skirted when you start doing blast/cycle doses that put you significantly supraphysiological. For that reason alone, I dont think subq is worth any risks.

 

[Thegoodthebad]

I just went full nerd on this and you are partly right about sub-q injections of oil-based steroids

Sub-q injections are usually for water-based solutions such as HGH, but when using a oil-based solution one should not go over 1ml per injection site otherwise you will feel greater discomfort than you would with an IM injection that is much larger dose (generally 2.5ml to 5ml is where people report feeling a discomfort which is probably related to the size of the muscle you injected with the oil-based steroid)

Meaning if you want go sub-q you need to do 0.5ml per injection site, so instead of pinning yourself once with the needle you would need to separate the injection in two. Doesn't seem so bad, but IM does have it's advantages since one could simply do it in one go.

There's also a lot of myths surrounding sub-q injections, but studies show nothing dramatic can happen other than pain when you get to 1ml and up

Since I'm only doing 500mg I could do it both ways, but IM would indeed be more convenient.
or I split it in 4 injections per week of 0.5ml, but do I really want to do it? I'll try both if I feel like it, but yeah you guys are right

 

[Nac]

What benefits exactly are you hoping to see doing subq?

 

[Thegoodthebad]

I remains in your system for a bit longer (and I say a bit longer) and you can pin the needle anywhere there's fat so there's no need to always pick the same spots
Plus you can't hit a nerve or a blood vessel

 

[Nac]

Ok.

Personally, I dont think there is much of a pharmacokinetic case "for" subq-ing supraphysiological quantities of test.

Those other reasons you mentioned, well we are clearly in more "personal preference" territory there.

 

[Thegoodthebad]

My primary concern is that i'll make a rookie mistake when injecting. Sub-q injections seemed safer, but the amount I can inject in one area is definitely a turn off.

I might start the first 1 or 2 weeks with sub-q just to get used to it and then I'll go intramuscular, but I have plenty of time to educate myself on the subject anyway.
I know tights and gluts are the easier way to go since you avoid the biggest blood vessels and nerves

I read a lot of logs from people who rushed into their first AAS cycle and did things wrong so I may be worried for nothing. Some people on the internet have half a brain and they did it with ease..
I've been thinking about doing injections for about 3 years and never followed through with it for various reasons

Anyway I have about 2-3 months to learn about injection spots and how to properly do it. There shouldn't be a problem with IM

 

[Nac]

Ventroglute is one of the "best" areas to inj IM. Minimal blood vessels and nerves compared to something like thighs. Can easily handle 3ml oil in one pin. What makes it tricky, though, is initially correctly identifying its location. If youre doing research, you might find it worthwhile looking further into that area as a viable pinning spot (in addition to the main gluteal region).

 

[Ninja23]

I pinned in the ventro glute for my first pin yesterday and it's very easy and painless definitely give it a shot when the time comes it's the most popular for a reason

 

[yotreeman]

My primary concern is that i'll make a rookie mistake when injecting. Sub-q injections seemed safer, but the amount I can inject in one area is definitely a turn off.

I might start the first 1 or 2 weeks with sub-q just to get used to it and then I'll go intramuscular, but I have plenty of time to educate myself on the subject anyway.
I know tights and gluts are the easier way to go since you avoid the biggest blood vessels and nerves

I read a lot of logs from people who rushed into their first AAS cycle and did things wrong so I may be worried for nothing. Some people on the internet have half a brain and they did it with ease..
I've been thinking about doing injections for about 3 years and never followed through with it for various reasons

Anyway I have about 2-3 months to learn about injection spots and how to properly do it. There shouldn't be a problem with IM

Ran my first injectable cycle at 20 with no problems whatsoever. (That said, I did already know how to use a syringe by that point, unfortunately...)

As long as you aren't scared of needles (a totally irrational fear, I might add), you have nothing to worry about. Do your research, practice basic sanitation and safety, you'll be fine.

My favorite sites are quads and, believe it or not, pecs.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Ventroglute is one of the "best" areas to inj IM. Minimal blood vessels and nerves compared to something like thighs. Can easily handle 3ml oil in one pin. What makes it tricky, though, is initially correctly identifying its location. If youre doing research, you might find it worthwhile looking further into that area as a viable pinning spot (in addition to the main gluteal region).

Maybe I'm just dumb, but I have looked at a million video's and articles and still can't figure out exactly where it's at so I just stick to the glute

 

[Nac]

Maybe I'm just dumb, but I have looked at a million video's and articles and still can't figure out exactly where it's at so I just stick to the glute

Yeah, fair enough. If you move your leg into the right position though, itll stick out like a sore thumb. Looking down, the area will be approx 3 fingers width. So its relatively narrow.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Yeah, fair enough. If you move your leg into the right position though, itll stick out like a sore thumb. Looking down, the area will be approx 3 fingers width. So its relatively narrow.

But whats the right position. Lol

 

[Nac]

Lift your leg out to the side a few inches, like your doing a cable abductor raise. Youll see the VG pop and flex.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Lift your leg out to the side a few inches, like your doing a cable abductor raise. Youll see the VG pop and flex.

Think I found it now

 

[BEASTZ6]

OP. My first cycle was 250mg/wk of Sustanon. I added 25 mg/day of dbol for sixr weeks to kick start my cycle. I gained 25 lbs of muscle in 30 days.

 

[Nac]

25lb of muscle in 30 days, lol

25lbs gross body weight, yeah sure.

 

[BEASTZ6]

Yes muscle and strength went up. Went from 250 lbs to 275lbs in one month. I went from doing 225lb bench press for 10 reps pre-cycle to 20 reps at the end of my cycle. I had been working out for 8 years as a natural before I took a walk on the dark side. That was 20 years ago. On my second cycle did 500mg/wk of Sustanon, and got up to 284 lbs, and decided to put the brakes on. Back then all we could get was pharm grade. I was using amps of green niles from Pakistan. The only UG lab around was from the original Chinaman (IP). My body soaked up anabloics like a sponge. I was just the opposite of a non-responder.

 

[Nac]

Yeah thats not too dissimiliar to my own first cycle/blast man. Put on about 25lbs bodyweight, too. Certainly wasnt all muscle though.

 

[Thegoodthebad]

I want to end the PCT with at least 10lbs that'd keep. I'm ready to see some gains vanish during PCT however...
I figured I should have low expectations, because if I plan to gain more than 20lbs I'm probably setting myself for disappointment.

10lbs of solid gains seems fair for a first AAS cycle, what do you guys think?

 

[Thegoodthebad]

Updated cycle

Length: 10-12 weeks

Test C - 500mg/wk
Proviron 40mg/day
Arimacare Pro by Olympus Labs
Wild Thing by Assault Labs
Krill oil
5-HTP

The PCT
Clomid 50/50/50/50 (might continue for another week depending on my test levels)
Arimidex 0.25mg e2d or as needed
Super PCT by Olympus Labs
Krill oil
Wild Thing by Assault Labs
5-HTP

 

[hairygrandpa]

Updated cycle

Length: 10-12 weeks

Test C - 500mg/wk
Proviron 40mg/day
Arimacare Pro by Olympus Labs
Wild Thing by Assault Labs
Krill oil
5-HTP

The PCT
Clomid 50/50/50/50 (might continue for another week depending on my test levels)
Arimidex 0.25mg e2d or as needed
Super PCT by Olympus Labs
Krill oil
Wild Thing by Assault Labs
5-HTP

I still see no kicker.... You are skipping the fun for several weeks.
Kick start the cycle, at least with test prop.

 

[Thegoodthebad]

I still see no kicker.... You are skipping the fun for several weeks.
Kick start the cycle, at least with test prop.

what would you suggest? I'd like a mild compound that is relatively easy on the organs and the most fast acting steroids/PH seem very harsh

 

[hairygrandpa]

what would you suggest? I'd like a mild compound that is relatively easy on the organs and the most fast acting steroids/PH seem very harsh

Use test prop like:
wk 1-4 test prop eod tapering down, starting with 150mg/150/150/120/120/120/100/100/100/50/50/50 off

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

I like test prop but I think it's overwhelming for first cycle on the first week you have pin all over your body