Forskolin: I don't like it

[EMPIREMIND]

Oh yeah, EC is always better but some people don't have access/don't want to try ephedrine.

Gotcha. Yohimbine can be some really nasty stuff.

So can forskolin. Been doing 2 pes shifts and 2 f95s daily and im the bathroom king lol. I had the same happen to my with alphamax also.

 

[Auslifter]

May be better for you attached to a propionate Ester and jabbed in your ass

Iol well at least test works enjoy your placebos

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Iol well at least test works enjoy your placebos

never commented on whether forskolins effective or not!

 

[malin]

We all know it,Just like clen..The question is about OTC supps

Well I would not put bronkaid and clen on the same shelf , you don't need script for bronkaid and it is much safer then clen ( don't think that you can get script for clenabutrol ) . On top of that it is quite easy to buy bronkaid ( Walgreens, CVS ) .

 

[Jiigzz]

Caffeine. Or most stimulants. Bcaas. Vitamin C. Fish oil, mct oil definitely.

Most of these herb extracts like tribulus are total and utter bullsh1t.

But you realize that not every one is comfortable using injectables, right? So to them the increases in mood and libido from trib are worth the cost. To each their own

 

[Driven2lift]

I read a lot of these and thought "well, more for me" lol.

Love the stuff. Absolutely helps me cut, extra winning if combined with EC (which I have run solo many times to compare)

*shrug*

 

[BlockBuilder]

Well there are numerous studies to promote its efficacy so idk http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16129715/

 

[jgntyce]

I read a lot of these and thought "well, more for me" lol.

Love the stuff. Absolutely helps me cut, extra winning if combined with EC (which I have run solo many times to compare)

*shrug*

Hahaha I thought the same exact thing brother...MORE FOR ME!!!

 

[puccah8808]

I didn't care for an ECA stack either.

 

[BlockBuilder]

I liked oxyelite pro the original

 

[puccah8808]

I liked oxyelite pro the original

Yes, that one was insane.

 

[toddmuelheim]

I've run calorie deficits with and without forskolin and at various doses between 50 and 100mg/day. I always have visibly better body composition during and after the runs with forskolin than without. I also get a reliable increase in aggression when running forksolin which is nice as I get deeper into a deficit and energy/motivation are at a premium.

That's just my personal anecdote though, and as we all know everyone responds differently to different things. Creatine for example, while undoubtedly one of the most studied and widely effective supplements does absolutely nothing for me. I've spents months on, months off, months on again looking for something to like about creatine and it has just never been there for me.

This is a great post. Although I get nothing out of forskolin, I see very noticeable differences with creatine very quickly. You're the exact opposite. Just shows how user-dependent most of these natural supplements are. There are a million more creatine studies as opposed to forskolin too, and the forskolin ones are very small, usually directed towards obese, and some show no effects. I still don't doubt when people say it works for them, but was just curious if there were a lot of other non responders out there as well.

 

[puccah8808]

This is a great post. Although I get nothing out of forskolin, I see very noticeable differences with creatine very quickly. You're the exact opposite. Just shows how user-dependent most of these natural supplements are. There are a million more creatine studies as opposed to forskolin too, and the forskolin ones are very small, usually directed towards obese, and some show no effects. I still don't doubt when people say it works for them, but was just curious if there were a lot of other non responders out there as well.

Can females take creatine, too, and what are the pros and cons?!

 

[toddmuelheim]

Can females take creatine, too, and what are the pros and cons?!

Only if they want to grow balls

 

[Driven2lift]

Can females take creatine, too, and what are the pros and cons?!

Yes, of course, you've likely already taken it if you've used a variety of pre workouts.

All pros, no cons.
Cheap and effective

 

[BlockBuilder]

Can females take creatine, too, and what are the pros and cons?!

Yea although I would go for a creatine like creatine HCL that won't bloat you up vs original mono. As a female I feel like the bloat would be more uncomfortable

 

[Chefdeez]

Yea although I would go for a creatine like creatine HCL that won't bloat you up vs original mono. As a female I feel like the bloat would be more uncomfortable

Creatine mono doesn't bloat you that bad, such a misconception.

 

[Aaron.Cole]

I think it's one of those things people convince themselves that it works because the research and studies look good.

Your post makes no sense. Clarify?

 

[Driven2lift]

Your post makes no sense. Clarify?

He's claiming Placebo based on evidence.

An odd predicament;
Where proof of it working makes it work.. Lol

 

[Chefdeez]

I think he means that sometimes success in studies doesn't always translate to practical real world success.

Correct.

 

[Driven2lift]

Of course not, if everything worked as in studies, I'd have gained another 50 pounds lean mass by now.

For real.

I calculated it last year for fun. The hypothetical amount of lean mass I would gain if I gained the difference from placebo vs. Supplemented from study for each extract/supp I was using.

Of course its not linear.
At all, lol.

Ergonine alone would make me gain 10 lean lbs. in 4-8 weeks if it was lol. These things help but the scale on which they work is smaller than people seem to expect

Forskolin was a tough one to gauge, but over a LOT of use I did, and concluded it helps me. I'm not always using it but if it is present in a burner I'm happy.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Of course not, if everything worked as in studies, I'd have gained another 50 pounds lean mass by now.

For real.

I calculated it last year for fun. The hypothetical amount of lean mass I would gain if I gained the difference from placebo vs. Supplemented from study for each extract/supp I was using.

Of course its not linear.
At all, lol.

Ergonine alone would make me gain 10 lean lbs. in 4-8 weeks if it was lol. These things help but the scale on which they work is smaller than people seem to expect

Forskolin was a tough one to gauge, but over a LOT of use I did, and concluded it helps me. I'm not always using it but if it is present in a burner I'm happy.

Of course, not everything has additive effects, even some studies have noted that

Also, it's worth noting what the subjects were like in a bit more detail than just obese vs not obese and trained vs untrained. As we all know, progress (strength and size) become harder to increase as we improve; it's certainly not linear. Even if a study does use "trained subjects," they are often still less "trained" or "advanced" than a lot of us are here. For example, a study using "trained" subjects may have noted some nice improvements on the bench press where subjects started with a 225lb max (which is still technically trained), and ended with a 250lb bench. That's a 25lb increase (just over 10% increase), but it can't always be interpreted that someone who currently benches 300lb will gain 10% (30lbs) on their bench, or even that they will gain the same 25lbs. I'd say that similar things apply to LBM as well, and especially fat loss. A study may use subjects who are ~20% body fat (I'm pretty sure that's not overweight) and note a 5% decrease in body fat. Of course, it is not a good idea to expect that someone at 12% body fat will drop the same 5% body fat.

So, basically, I suppose I'm saying that it's important to read more than just the abstracts of the studies a lot of times to see how relevant these studies actually are to each of us. There could be a study showing 10% increase in bench press 1-RM (from 225lbs to 250), and another showing a reduction in body fat (from 20% to 15%). First, it is wrong to assume that combining the two supplements would result in completely additive benefits, and I'd say it's also wrong to inherently assume that if you're benching 300 with 12% body fat that you'll make the same improvements (325-330 bench and/or 7% body fat) with either/both supplement(s).

A lot of the people on these forums would basically fit into a 3rd category; above the untrained and trained subjects typically used in studies. Granted, there are studies that use high-level/elite/professional athletes, but these studies are often relatively limited and are not all that common.

 

[Driven2lift]

But do you think studies in trained individuals then won't apply to the "very trained" individual?

Because I'd disagree wholeheartedly.

The magnitude may change as you noted, certainly if you are using BF% as a measure and shifting the starting point lower. All kinds of factors in play then.

Something proven to liberate fatty acids or partition to lean mass is always going to do that though

And IMO I'm more willing to use weight loss aids in a low BF% state, I note the effects and assistance even more

 

[Aaron.Cole]

He's claiming Placebo based on evidence.

An odd predicament;
Where proof of it working makes it work.. Lol

Gotcha. The phrasing just seemed like "People think it works because it works" which to me is similar to saying "People think vegetables are healthy because they're healthy". Those darn vegetables are not what they seem though.




It seems to be one of those supplements that may be situation dependent (like has been mentioned before); maybe even possible synergistic properties. From using it alone, the effects weren't negligible, but they also weren't phenomenal.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

But do you think studies in trained individuals then won't apply to the "very trained" individual?

Because I'd disagree wholeheartedly.

The magnitude may change as you noted, certainly if you are using BF% as a measure and shifting the starting point lower. All kinds of factors in play then.

Something proven to liberate fatty acids or partition to lean mass is always going to do that though

And IMO I'm more willing to use weight loss aids in a low BF% state, I note the effects and assistance even more

I'm not saying that they won't apply, if the MOA is something that will work regardless of the population used, then it'll still work, but I don't think it will necessarily work as well, either in terms of total increase (lbs on bench for example) or % increase. For example, I think something like PA works regardless, but I'm not sure if I'd expect the same increases in strength in someone benching 350 as someone benching 225. Of course, this is speculation, and use of drugs/hormonal substances certainly changes things, and that accounts for a lot of the very trained individuals.

 

[T-Bone]

Yea although I would go for a creatine like creatine HCL that won't bloat you up vs original mono. As a female I feel like the bloat would be more uncomfortable

So you're female?. For weirdos that bloat on mono, they could try MCC. The stuff is awesome and works well.

 

[Driven2lift]

Agree,
At a lower BF, fat lost would be less.

If pictured as an RMR increase (its not) of a percentage,
drop to 8% BF that RMR is less,
and then so is the net effect of the supp.

I say it still worked as effectively but to less net difference, because you're closer to your goal/potential limit

It would be harder to lose that weight (or gain that lean mass) without the supp, too at that point

 

[muscleupcrohn]

It would be harder to lose that weight (or gain that lean mass) without the supp, too at that point

Yes, and I agree that these supplements are still useful, you just have to have realistic (informed) expectations for them based on a few factors.

EDIT: I think it may also be safe to say that supplements may even be more beneficial for highly trained individuals than trained individuals in some cases. While relative (%) and absolute (#) progress may be less from a given supplement for a highly trained individual than a trained individual (progress in general is slower, so it only makes sense), any added little benefit is going to be noticeable and appreciated by the highly trained individuals.

 

[Zoomie33240]

I'll throw in my .02 just for fun. The G.I. issues with forsk such but they go away after a while. I have to say that I noticeably stay slightly leaner on a bulk using it. I feel like it definitely helps me stay lean on a lean bulk vs not using it. However, on a cut I never use it to be honest. Never noticed any huge benefits using it while cutting on a carb cycling diet with most days being really low carb.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Yes, of course, you've likely already taken it if you've used a variety of pre workouts.

All pros, no cons.
Cheap and effective

Or eaten Beef.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I think he means that sometimes success in studies doesn't always translate to practical real world success.

But there's over 700 (at last count) of them. It's not like we're talking one rat study somebody found in a 1960's Russian journal and had translated. (But there are non-responders to it - it's in the 700 studies )

 

[ma70]

I think this thread is starting to make very obvious that stacking 5000 natural supplements is cost ineffective, stupid, and sets you up for disappointment.

Or at least that's what it looks like to me, haha.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I think this thread is starting to make very obvious that stacking 5000 natural supplements is cost ineffective, stupid, and sets you up for disappointment.

Or at least that's what it looks like to me, haha.

That seems like a fair and accurate assessment. One or two natural supplements (they may have multiple ingredients in them), plus other stuff that isn't taken with the intention of gaining size/strength (pre-workout, multi, fish oil, joint support, etc), should be plenty. After a point you end up at a place where the marginal benefits don't justify the added costs.

For me, most of the time (besides things like vitamins, joint support, nootropics, pre-workouts, etc) I'll only take a supplement that covers my basics (with creatine, betaine, etc) and some lecithin granules as a source of PA. If I'm overreaching, I may add in some HMB, but that's about it (although there are some ingredients that can help with strength/size that I take, but not primarily for those reasons like Ashwagandha, tongkat Ali, and Spirulina).

With that said, there are some supplements that, while adding them to a stack may not result in completely additive gains/progress, can still be of use/benefit, perhaps by improving libido/energy or reducing stress/anxiety (improving the way you feel and general well-being), which can potentially have a carry-over positive effect on your ability to focus on and enjoy what's needed to make progress/gains.

 

[hvactech]

The real question is there's anything natty that can give you visible results on the cut,not placebo...

Ecy

 

[T-Bone]

Ecy

That's about as "natty" as cocaine.

 

[hvactech]

That's about as "natty" as cocaine.

Just not as good

 

[Alex281]

Ecy

We're talkin' about OTC supps..

 

[Alex281]

Has anyone tried Calcium Pyruvate ?

 

[Alex281]

Ephedrine is OTC in Canada, all praise to Moses for that. I consider Ephedrine and Y natty. Clen is where I draw the line.

But meth is illegal ?!

 

[hvactech]

We're talkin' about OTC supps..

I can be handed ephedra directly over the counter.. Even so.. Caffeine and yohimbe alone have tons of feedback and published studies

 

[EMPIREMIND]

We're talkin' about OTC supps..

Technically e is otc

 

[Alex281]

Technically e is otc

Ephedra extract to be more precise

 

[Driven2lift]

It would be much easier to cook up here lol.
Baked goods...

 

[sprintsss]

Bunk

 

[Robert5891]

I noticed I was a little leaner while on it, but nothing earth shattering.

I was using F-95 and still saw a considerable amount of stomach upset the first several weeks on it. Maybe that was the reason for helping lean out so much, haha.

 

[kdubson14]

My high dose of forskolin may be why I can use EC + 16mg Y without any issues. Or not.

 

[LEATHERFACE]

most of the time the only ones who say that they get results from it are pes rep, they are also lucky because they responds very well to amentoflavone

 

[Pec.Major]

I like Forskolin. I have only used 95% extract Forskolin. Body recomposition is definitely present. Only downside is GI distress on high doses and them farts. GI distress is usually solved with increasing the dose gradually.

 

[kbayne]

most of the time the only ones who say that they get results from it are pes rep, they are also lucky because they responds very well to amentoflavone

Interesting thought when there are numerous other companies that use 95% Forskolin or lower percentages.

 

[mbonheur]

I'm definitely not a Rep and get results. Obviously, you have to take a quality extract, dose correctly and have diet and training in check. And have realistic expectations. BTW I don't even have GI issues with 10% extracts