Focus XT Scooper Issue

[Ape McGrapes]

Opened up a new tub of Focus XT and the scooper handle is absolutely too long. comically even. So I grab the scoop out of an old tub to replace it. I noticed the scoops are not only different in handle length but the old scoop is 12.0 cc and the new one is 9.0 cc.

I know SNS switched companies oes for flavoring, so I checked both labels and a scoop is still 7g. Broke out the trusty scale and weighed a Scoop from both. New scooper came up short.

Just thought I would let anyone who is using a new tub be aware of this.

@sns8778

 

[Rostam]

The serving size is still 7g as before but maybe the density has changed and the powder is heavier now.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

The serving size is still 7g as before but maybe the density has changed and the powder is heavier now.

I weighed out a Scoop from both. The 9.0cc(new) scoop was around 4 grams. The 12.0cc scoop weighed out to just about 7 grams exact.

 

[Beau]

Helpful hint: Use the old scoop, but cut off the excess handle length. I've done this with other scoops to avoid flinging the powder when removing the scoop from the container.

 

[sns8778]

Opened up a new tub of Focus XT and the scooper handle is absolutely too long. comically even. So I grab the scoop out of an old tub to replace it. I noticed the scoops are not only different in handle length but the old scoop is 12.0 cc and the new one is 9.0 cc.

I know SNS switched companies oes for flavoring, so I checked both labels and a scoop is still 7g. Broke out the trusty scale and weighed a Scoop from both. New scooper came up short.

Just thought I would let anyone who is using a new tub be aware of this.

@sns8778

I've always liked you and I've always liked Rob & Iconic. I would like to hope that the reason for posting this publicly in a way that could hurt the product rather than pm'ing me to ask a simple question wouldn't happen to be related to Iconic releasing their new pre-workout products.

I'll break this reply down into parts.

Handle length:
The scoop length is definitely longer than I would have preferred, but the alternative would have been being out of the product for an extended period of time because the short handled scoops weren't available. Right now, there is a huge shortage of plastic related items - this includes containers, lids, and scoop. So being that short handled scoops just weren't available, that left us with the choice of going with long handled scoops or being out of stock on the product and waiting for scoops for the short handled scoops for who knows how long.

Scoop Size:
The dose of active ingredients in Focus XT is just a little over 5 grams.
The total dose of active ingredients + flavor system equaled out to around 7 grams.
You acknowledge yourself that you knew that we were working with a new place on powders; and I've acknowledged multiple times that it was taking awhile to get the flavors as close as possible. Changes to gram weight sizes can happen when flavor system changes happen. Further explanation below.

Raw material densities:
The density of many raw materials can vary from batch to batch; meaning that some batches are fluffier and some are more dense. Leucine and Choline Bitartrate are great examples of this. For example, our Leucine normally comes in a 44 oz. container but we've had batches where 500 grams literally wouldn't fit in a 44 oz. because it was fluffier; so therefore, we had to use a 55 oz. container on a batch or two when that happened in the past.

How Flavor Systems are Made:
This is a part of the industry that a lot of people don't realize how complex it is. So many people seem to think its a simple as buying a flavor from a flavor company and just dropping it in there. The flavors in their pure form like that are disgusting; you wouldn't even know what the actual flavor was by doing that. A flavor is a component of a flavor system and the flavor system has to be built out.

A flavor system consists of multiple components - the flavor itself, acids (malic and citric acids), flavor maskers, sweeteners, etc. There are many flavor houses that provide flavors and they have literally dozens of options available for some flavors per each individual flavor house. So you may a flavor company xyz that has a blue raspberry for example and to make it taste right you have to use 1.75 grams of malic and citric acid. Then flavor company zyx may have a different blue raspberry that you only have to use 500 mg. to make it taste right. So when any company changes flavor systems or where is making the product, there can be small changes to the total product weight.

And no, we, nor pretty much anyone else throw out thousands of dollars in labels when changes like this happen because it doesn't change the amount of active ingredients in the product.

One more very important note:
There is not necessarily a one size fits all approach to a scoop size. Think of them like rings. They come in sizes - so if you fall between a size, a company has to go with the one that is closest to their dose. And as part of that, a company has to remember that to some people, 1 scoop means a level scoop and to some people it means a heaping scoop.


I'm pretty sure that @delsolrob can confirm everything I'm saying about the plastics shortage effecting the industry and the raw material densities. And I'm not sure if he's worked with flavor systems personally, but if he has, I'm sure he can confirm that part as well.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

@sns8778 This has nothing to do with competition. I can take a picture of all my saved up SNS bottles. I'd guess atleast 30+ Focus XT labels alone. Our preworkout isn't even in the same competing category as Focus XT.

I was just curious on the different scoop sizes, and which was correct. A small mis-step in production could easily see the wrong size scoop end up in containers. Mistakes can happen, so this was really a straight forward question: Which size scoop is the correct one?

 

[sns8778]

@sns8778 This has nothing to do with competition. I can take a picture of all my saved up SNS bottles. I'd guess atleast 30+ Focus XT labels alone. Our preworkout isn't even in the same competing category as Focus XT.

I was just curious on the different scoop sizes, and which was correct. A small mis-step in production could easily see the wrong size scoop end up in containers. Mistakes can happen, so this was really a straight forward question: Which size scoop is the correct one?

I know you have used the product for some time and we've talked a lot in the past. That's why it seemed to me like you would have pm'd me first asking about it rather than making a thread that could give people the wrong impression. (You can ask Rob to confirm - there was something that I was worried about a few months back that I was worried people would nit pick him over - I didn't post it, didn't mention it; I pm'd him privately about it).

And the thing is, there was no question in the original post. I could perfectly see asking it as a question, but you directly said the new one came up short and you wanted to let everyone know about it.

I like you, and maybe you really didn't mean it the way it came off. So let me explain - I hadn't planned on checking AM at all today because today was a day I had set aside to work on new label text. I had 4 different people that have my contact info email or text me and ask what was going on with SNS and Iconic bc there was an Iconic rep that made a thread bashing Focus XT. So please understand, it wasn't just my opinion of how it came off. I only logged in to see it bc of people contacting me about it.

I went into great detail and explanation about flavor systems in my above post and how they can affect the gram weight.

Neither scoop size is incorrect. When it was made using the prior flavor system, the 12 cc scoop was correct (approx. 7 grams total) but when we changed places making it, there were changes made to the flavor system. That's why I explained the part about how flavor systems were made in great detail above. For this new batch, the scoop size is correct bc there is less other ingredient used with the current flavor system.

You mentioned your gram scale weighed it at around 4 grams; I just pulled open retentions and weighed 3 different flavors on different scales here and they come out around 6 grams. I don't doubt you on this bc different grams scales weigh slightly differently and also as I explained above, some people use exactly level scoops and some people use scoops with it coming out the top. If you want to be exactly precise, if you use the old scoop for this, underfill it just a bit and if you're worried that the new scoop is slightly smaller, just make it a scoop with some on top rather than a completely level scoop.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

@sns8778 I see now that I actually didn't ask a question. None the less my intentions were well, but I probably could have put more thought into making my post. A PM would have been the better choice. I really was just trying to check if Scoop size had changed with flavoring companies.

 

[sns8778]

@sns8778 I see now that I actually didn't ask a question. None the less my intentions were well, but I probably could have put more thought into making my post. A PM would have been the better choice. I really was just trying to check if Scoop size had changed with flavoring companies.

No hard feelings. Thank you for seeing my side on it and I hope I explained it to where it made sense.