First Test E 500mg cycle help

[Tylerdelg]

Hello everyone, I’m 24 years old 5’8” 188 pounds, I assume around 17% body fat. I’ve been lifting since I was 16 and I am going to start my first cycle in about a month but I need some opinions mostly on Ai dosing.
I plan on doing a cycle of Test E 500mg a week for 12 weeks injecting every Monday and Thursday. I have arimidex that I was going to take .25mg EOD but some people say to only take the Ai if I start to develop symptoms and I don’t want to crash my estrogen levels.
Also my PCT is going to be 3 weeks after the last pin. Novladex 20mg every day for 6 weeks, should I add clomid ?
Please comment your opinions on my cycle layout, thanks!

 

[Ironpirate]

I'd start the arimidex at .25mg twice a week tuesday and Friday and adjust it from there. You don't need to add clomid, either one is fine. I prefer clomid myself but a lot of guys like nolva. Are you taking any orals with it?

 

[Tylerdelg]

No orals, being my first cycle I’m just trying out test to see how it goes. If I end up doing more cycles in the future I will start to experiment more

 

[Tylerdelg]

I'd start the arimidex at .25mg twice a week tuesday and Friday and adjust it from there. You don't need to add clomid, either one is fine. I prefer clomid myself but a lot of guys like nolva. Are you taking any orals with it?

Should I start the Adex the next day after the first pin or should I wait a week or so

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Hello everyone, I’m 24 years old 5’8” 188 pounds, I assume around 17% body fat. I’ve been lifting since I was 16 and I am going to start my first cycle in about a month but I need some opinions mostly on Ai dosing.
I plan on doing a cycle of Test E 500mg a week for 12 weeks injecting every Monday and Thursday. I have arimidex that I was going to take .25mg EOD but some people say to only take the Ai if I start to develop symptoms and I don’t want to crash my estrogen levels.
Also my PCT is going to be 3 weeks after the last pin. Novladex 20mg every day for 6 weeks, should I add clomid ?
Please comment your opinions on my cycle layout, thanks!

Layout looks good. But I would add do your Monday shot in the Morning, and Thursday shot in the afternoon. Keep the Adex on hand but it is not needed unless symptoms show their ugly head. Or you could try just adding it in at .25 on Friday Morning after about 6 weeks in if you want to be overly cautious.
I would start PCT 2 weeks after last shot, and Nolva by itself is fine, you could add in a natty testbooster with it as well if you care to.

 

[Tylerdelg]

Layout looks good. But I would add do your Monday shot in the Morning, and Thursday shot in the afternoon. Keep the Adex on hand but it is not needed unless symptoms show their ugly head. Or you could try just adding it in at .25 on Friday Morning after about 6 weeks in if you want to be overly cautious.
I would start PCT 2 weeks after last shot, and Nolva by itself is fine, you could add in a natty testbooster with it as well if you care to.

Okay I’ll add the morning/afternoon in. In the scenario I start to develop symptoms before 6 weeks in, should I take .5mg eod until symptoms go away? Just read so much different opinions on Ai dosing it’s very confusing. Most say keep it on hand until you need it, so I guess I’ll take that route and hope it works best. just nervous I guess because I have no experience with this stuff yet

 

[Ironpirate]

Should I start the Adex the next day after the first pin or should I wait a week or so

I wouldn't wait 6 weeks to take it but you gotta figure out what's best for you. You could even start out at .25 once a week just to be safe. I've found it's better to be a little over cautious than to have to deal with gyno but everyone is different.

 

[CroLifter]

Everyone is different i for one can run 500 test with 0 ai, will have terrible moonface but no nipple issues. Throw in even a tiny bit of prolactin, from mk677, and i get gyno from 125 test with no ai.

unfortunately i still have a lump that reminds of my mk run.

If i was you, i wouldnt start out with more than 0.25mg adex 2 x per week if just 500 test.
a lot of test's anabolic potency comes from its ability to convert to estrogen and therefore increase igf 1, a non androgen receptor mediated pathway.

take this away, and test is a poor anabolic when it comes to pure androgen receptor mediated action.

 

[Tylerdelg]

I wouldn't wait 6 weeks to take it but you gotta figure out what's best for you. You could even start out at .25 once a week just to be safe. I've found it's better to be a little over cautious than to have to deal with gyno but everyone is different.

Yeah very true. I think im going to start off taking .25mg Friday mornings after the second pin and base it off of that. If I feel symptoms of high e I’ll raise it to .25mg 2 days a week, if I feel like I’m crashing I’ll back off of it. Thanks for the feedback

 

[Mathb33]

Cro said it. .25 is always what I recommend as a start up. Then you adjust according to bloodworks/side effects.

 

[Hlee33]

Hello everyone, I’m 24 years old 5’8” 188 pounds, I assume around 17% body fat. I’ve been lifting since I was 16 and I am going to start my first cycle in about a month but I need some opinions mostly on Ai dosing.
I plan on doing a cycle of Test E 500mg a week for 12 weeks injecting every Monday and Thursday. I have arimidex that I was going to take .25mg EOD but some people say to only take the Ai if I start to develop symptoms and I don’t want to crash my estrogen levels.
Also my PCT is going to be 3 weeks after the last pin. Novladex 20mg every day for 6 weeks, should I add clomid ?
Please comment your opinions on my cycle layout, thanks!

Pct should not be too hard after a simple 500mg cycle, however I would not only use nolva. I would use clomid at a sensible dose (25mg a day should be fine).

I Know 500mg seems to be the recommended standard starting point, but I think we over estimate the safety of using AIs. I also don't think someone needs 500mg of test to grow on their first cycle, however its simple, tried and true, and I can respect that protocol. I think .25 Adex EOD is a great starting point if that is the route you want to go.

 

[PhoenixGamer]

I second Hlee33's opinion on the Testosterone dose. 500mg is overkill. You won't gain much more (if any) additional muscle on 500mg compared to say 250mg. You may gain more weight, but it will just be water and glycogen that will go away once the cycle is over. If you end up needing an AI, it makes it even more difficult for you to gauge how to handle the cycle. Also, AI's decrease insulin sensitiviy and reduce IGF-1 (Among other side effects). I recommend Test. Cyp. 200mg per week for your first cycle as you will make the best gains without much risk of side effects.

PCT is best with Fareston, 15mg every 3-4 days x30 days. Nolvadex is the 2nd best SERM if you can't get Fareston; 10mg daily is plenty, I'd personally do 10mg EOD. These drugs are potent, more is not better.
Throw away clomid. It is a nasty drug that is highly estrogenic because 50% is comprised of the Zuclomiphene isomer.

 

[CroLifter]

I second Hlee33's opinion on the Testosterone dose. 500mg is overkill. You won't gain much more (if any) additional muscle on 500mg compared to say 250mg. You may gain more weight, but it will just be water and glycogen that will go away once the cycle is over. If you end up needing an AI, it makes it even more difficult for you to gauge how to handle the cycle. Also, AI's decrease insulin sensitiviy and reduce IGF-1 (Among other side effects). I recommend Test. Cyp. 200mg per week for your first cycle as you will make the best gains without much risk of side effects.

PCT is best with Fareston, 15mg every 3-4 days x30 days. Nolvadex is the 2nd best SERM if you can't get Fareston; 10mg daily is plenty, I'd personally do 10mg EOD. These drugs are potent, more is not better.
Throw away clomid. It is a nasty drug that is highly estrogenic because 50% is comprised of the Zuclomiphene isomer.

While i agree 500 test isnt necessarily the best and that one could get better results stacking 250 test with sth else, for a beginner 500 test will yield good gains and is forgiving in terms of impact on your health.

I dont think 200mg of test would be worth the shut down.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

While i agree 500 test isnt necessarily the best and that one could get better results stacking 250 test with sth else, for a beginner 500 test will yield good gains and is forgiving in terms of impact on your health.

I dont think 200mg of test would be worth the shut down.

I do 200mg on TRT. when I blast I still dont go over 200, and let the other drugs do the work. Therefore I agree, 200 wont do much as a first cycle. Just starting out 500 on first cycle. And find out how your body reacts to it.

 

[steve0178]

Everyone is different i for one can run 500 test with 0 ai, will have terrible moonface but no nipple issues. Throw in even a tiny bit of prolactin, from mk677, and i get gyno from 125 test with no ai.

unfortunately i still have a lump that reminds of my mk run.

If i was you, i wouldnt start out with more than 0.25mg adex 2 x per week if just 500 test.
a lot of test's anabolic potency comes from its ability to convert to estrogen and therefore increase igf 1, a non androgen receptor mediated pathway.

take this away, and test is a poor anabolic when it comes to pure androgen receptor mediated action.

Excellent advise here.

OP, From your original post, I'd say clomid works better than nolva for restarting natural test production.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Excellent advise here.

OP, From your original post, I'd say clomid works better than nolva for restarting natural test production.

Two totally different drugs that do completely different things so How you gonna say Clomid is better than Nolva?

 

[steve0178]

Two totally different drugs that do completely different things so How you gonna say Clomid is better than Nolva?

Clomid is prescribed for infertility. Nolva is prescribed for breast cancer. Both can potentially have a positive effect on spermatogenesis, but clomid has more established documentation in the medical community.

 

[maximillia]

To make recovery faster, you could switch to test propionate 3 weeks before the end of the cycle and be able to begin PCT right after the cycle ends, instead of having to wait 3 weeks.

 

[BarryScott]

Two totally different drugs that do completely different things so How you gonna say Clomid is better than Nolva?

Hmm, are you sure you're not thinking of something else? Clomid and nolva are actually very similar, both in terms of mechanism and chemical structure.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Hmm, are you sure you're not thinking of something else? Clomid and nolva are actually very similar, both in terms of mechanism and chemical structure.

I will pull up the info when I get home. Dont have access to it right now at work.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Hmm, are you sure you're not thinking of something else? Clomid and nolva are actually very similar, both in terms of mechanism and chemical structure.

Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex) - an anti-estrogenic agent, belonging to the group of selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs). Nolvadex (AstaZeneca) is currently used for the treatment of both early and advanced estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer in pre and postmenopausal women. Additionally, it is the most common hormone treatment for male breast cancer. It is used during a post-cycle therapy schedule, for bodybuilders trying to restore their hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis(HPTA).

Clomiphene Citrate(Clomid) - another SERM that is medically used to treat infertility in women who do not ovulate. Clomiphene has also been used with other assisted reproductive technology to increase success rates of these other modalities.

Source: Dr. Testosterone, Muscular Development, February 2020

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Clomid is prescribed for infertility. Nolva is prescribed for breast cancer. Both can potentially have a positive effect on spermatogenesis, but clomid has more established documentation in the medical community.

Exactly my point so how can you come pair them. One works for your balls, one works to stop you from getting titties. Which is why most people use both. I use to use Nolva only cause I already been snipped and dont care about more kids. Plus if you use HCG during cycle. Normally Clomid would not be needed cause HCG will keep the testes working.

 

[BarryScott]

Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex) - an anti-estrogenic agent, belonging to the group of selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs). Nolvadex (AstaZeneca) is currently used for the treatment of both early and advanced estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer in pre and postmenopausal women. Additionally, it is the most common hormone treatment for male breast cancer. It is used during a post-cycle therapy schedule, for bodybuilders trying to restore their hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis(HPTA).

Clomiphene Citrate(Clomid) - another SERM that is medically used to treat infertility in women who do not ovulate. Clomiphene has also been used with other assisted reproductive technology to increase success rates of these other modalities.

Source: Dr. Testosterone, Muscular Development, February 2020

Yes, they were developed for different purposes but they're chemically very similar (both serms, like your post says) and produce the same set of effects in the body, that's pretty common in medicine.

 

[BarryScott]

Exactly my point so how can you come pair them. One works for your balls, one works to stop you from getting titties. Which is why most people use both. I use to use Nolva only cause I already been snipped and dont care about more kids. Plus if you use HCG during cycle. Normally Clomid would not be needed cause HCG will keep the testes working.

So what clomid and nolva both do is block the negative feedback of estrogen on your hpta axis, most of this doesn't take place in your balls, that's just the last stop of the train. They both work systematicly, it's kind of an old bit of broscience, that nolva is only good at binding to receptors in breast tissue, and clomid better at restarting the hpta.

That said, a lot of people do think clomid is more effective but that's really more anecdotal than based in evidence for now.

Hcg basically functions as lh in the body, so it keeps your gonads working as you said correctly, however once you cease the hcg there won't be any lh to take over, because the rest of your hpta is still shut down from your cycle.

So taking a serm like nolva, clomid or torem helps speed up the hpta recovery (get you producing gnhr, lh, etc.) and having been on hcg throughout your cycle (or blasting hcg shortly before the end of your cycle) means your gonads are primed to respond to lh.