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First PH cycle with HDROL

BURNT DICE said:
Getting everything lined up is VIP. It took almost 7 weeks to get my Nolva. I didn't think it was going to come! Been reading a lot about torem. Might have been a better choice, but novla is tried and true also. Read a couple scary gyno threads. One thing I might splurge on just to be safe is to have some letro on hand. It's pricey though. I'm lucky that I have some cash to spare though. Might have to hunt around for some sources.
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You won't need letro. I got sensitive nips and very very mild gyno during my PCT from hdrol the first time I took it. You just want to remember to taper off of your SERM. Taper off to a small dose for your last few days on the serm, and run a natty test booster when your serm runs out. My second time around and for every cycle after that I did that and ran an estrogen blocker (usually formestane) at low dose to kind of ease into the transition.

But hdrol gyno is nothing to get worried about if you do everything right, so don't get paranoid.
 
Yup, seriously thinking about it. Probably starting in 2-3 weeks, depending on my Bloodwork (and maybe on Nolva arrival).

I don't take h-drol lightly, especially in the regard to liver toxicity and BP.

Well, I'll be just as excited as you to see your latest (last) Bloodworks. Don't let me down. ;)

I'm probably going tomorrow to the Doc. You would agree it is helpful to get the Testosterone checked as well? Since it'll cost me extra.
 
FL3X MAGNUM said:
You won't need letro. I got sensitive nips and very very mild gyno during my PCT from hdrol the first time I took it. You just want to remember to taper off of your SERM. Taper off to a small dose for your last few days on the serm, and run a natty test booster when your serm runs out. My second time around and for every cycle after that I did that and ran an estrogen blocker (usually formestane) at low dose to kind of ease into the transition.

But hdrol gyno is nothing to get worried about if you do everything right, so don't get paranoid.
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Sorry, when I said Letro I meant for a future cycle, that would likely not be hdrol, but maybe something where gyno would be more likely.

Couple things you said though.

1. Taper off SERM. I am planning on doing 20/20/10/10. Do you mean that maybe I should do a few days at the end of like 5 perhaps?

2. I am taking my testbooster right now, during PCT, which I have read a couple places, most notably tunedsports. Do you know of any reason I might not want to be running my test booster now (activate xtreme)

3. I have an AI (inhibit-e) but don't really want to use it. I have also read that while optional, some people take formestane as they taper down the Nolva. So like...starting week 3 for example and then taper off it a couple weeks after nolva is gone. Is this what you mean?
 
Bid said:
Yup, seriously thinking about it. Probably starting in 2-3 weeks, depending on my Bloodwork (and maybe on Nolva arrival).

I don't take h-drol lightly, especially in the regard to liver toxicity and BP.

Well, I'll be just as excited as you to see your latest (last) Bloodworks. Don't let me down. ;)

I'm probably going tomorrow to the Doc. You would agree it is helpful to get the Testosterone checked as well? Since it'll cost me extra.
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Yes, get as much info as you can. I'm not the best person to ask, so check around, but the ones I've read you should check are :

Liver values
Lipids (lldl/hdl/ratio/triglycerides)
testosterone
Blood sugar levels

You will need to fast for Blood sugar and lipid levels

DICE
 
BURNT DICE said:
Sorry, when I said Letro I meant for a future cycle, that would likely not be hdrol, but maybe something where gyno would be more likely.

Couple things you said though.

1. Taper off SERM. I am planning on doing 20/20/10/10. Do you mean that maybe I should do a few days at the end of like 5 perhaps?

2. I am taking my testbooster right now, during PCT, which I have read a couple places, most notably tunedsports. Do you know of any reason I might not want to be running my test booster now (activate xtreme)

3. I have an AI (inhibit-e) but don't really want to use it. I have also read that while optional, some people take formestane as they taper down the Nolva. So like...starting week 3 for example and then taper off it a couple weeks after nolva is gone. Is this what you mean?
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Running nolva at 10 your last couple weeks should be low enough to not cause any estrogen rebound issues. The only reason I wait on the test booster til after PCT is because I feel like it helps keep everything more balanced, coming off of my serm while on a test booster and then having only the test booster in my opinion would cause a fluctuation (I haven't done any research to say that's factual). But I've read it being done both ways with similar results. And as for your 3rd question, that is part of the reason I run an AI during PCT, except I usually end up running mine all the way through. I doubt you will have any problems doing it your way though. I just like to be different.
 
UPDATE PCT DAY 10

I have been off hdrol and on Nolva for 10 days. On hdrol I started at 200,went up to about 210 and as of now weight about 208.5lbs. Feel a bit smaller thoug and have lost some muscle hardness. However my strength seems to be holding steady. Some stuff might even be up a bit, which I don't really understand, but the lifting stats don't lie. At first I felt like I was bloated ane especially at night as mt Nolva does neared. I took my dose before bed and always felt drier in the morning. Dunno if that was in my head, but it seemed that way. My balls are getting bigger for sure. All along I have been able to get it up and ejaculate but around day15-20 my libido declined and is still the case in pct . Erectile are less hard but everything works. The last couple days I've felt like my body is just kinda returning to normal. It's hard to describe but I just feel more like before hdrol. Less agro kinda. In the last week of my cycle and the first week of pct I could feel my liver. It didn't hurt and wasn't really uncomfortable, but felt a bit swollen, but the last couple days it feels like it it subsiding. On pct I got mild hot flashes which I think was a side of Nova. Otherwise my pct is pretty smooth

I am taking cycle assist like on cycle
Nova@20 mg/day til Sunday when start week 3
I am taking activate extreme at 4 caps per day

Other than that it's just a multi and fish oil., but start tomorrow I am going to add creatine. Oh, and I am taking jacked for pre workout energy, but think it really only helps a little. I'll be happy to get creatine loaded though, cuz I know it works a bit which will help me keep gains or add some maybe. All in all pct has been easy so far and I suspect the hardest part is done. Just felt a littler stressed at times, but fine.
 
Thanks for the update! :)

So, you can actually feel that your liver is now different? :D I don't think I've ever felt my liver before... lol
 
I could feel a little added pressure under my rib cage on the right side where my liver is, like it was a bit bloated or swollen. My liver values were pretty high and it does happen.
 
Yea, your liver values seem insane, but isn't he bilirium (or something like that) more of an indicator how bad in shape your liver is?

Hdrol shut you down pretty good too. Doesn't sound that mild at all, lol.

Maybe I'll try Oxavar (m4ohn) instead.
 
PCT DAY 17

OK, I have been on PCT for over two weeks and I feel great and don't think I have any sides. I was a bit worried heading into PCT as i hear that at this time sides are more common, but nothing. Today will be my 3rd day at 10mg of Nolva. Not sure if i noticed anything when I down dosed Nolva from 20mg either. At this point, because my PCT is so smooth if I ever do another cycle it probably will be with Nolva again and not another SERM. If I have no sides, why change? Everyone is different tho.

My weight today was 209.5. Which is up about 1.5 pounds from the last few days for some reason and if anything I felt lean this morning *shrug*. My strength is still holding and also still up a bit. When I stopped HDROL I was benching 245 x 6 and last chest day i did 245 x 8 (with a little help on the last rep) as an example. My other lifts show similar slight increases which to me is probably a good thing as I was expecting I might lose some strength.

Other than that, I am still taking activate xtreme, cycle assist, multi and fish oil. I am thinking of dropping the cycle assist soon and just going with Milk Thistle and Hawthorne Berry for the last week or so. Simply because if I save the last half of this bottle I will only need to buy one more bottle of CA for a future cycle if i want to do one. Is this a bad idea? I just think at this point I feel like I am recovering fine and since the Hdrol is long gone and the Nolva is halved maybe CA for the last week or so isn't that big a deal. Anyone disagree?

At this point I REALLY want to cut, but I'm not. I was going to start to cut at the end of PCT but now I've read a couple places that I should wait a month past PCT to cut or I may risk losing my gains, which by my estimate at this point are probably 6lbs muscle and 3lbs fat. Modest improvement. I think I may take an extra week or so past my PCT but since I stopped my cycle early, my gains aren't THAT great this time around I may just cut and get lean before it is too late and summer is gone. Plus I may do another cycle in the fall before hockey season and i would want to be fairly lean for the start of that.

Couple other notes

- Still drinking lots of water but not as thirsty
- Spent the last week loading Creatine
- My balls are bigger and my erections are harder and easier to achieve since around Day 10 of PCT

Can I assume that because my stregnth and weight is still up, my balls are getting bigger and erections are harder and HDROl is 17 days gone...and I feel fine and have good energy that my Test is recovering well, or is it possible that it is still in the tank and I don't realize it? I mean ...I don't have any of the classic signs of low testosterone at this point.

DICE
 
Good update.

H-drol is more on the mild side so I don't really see any problems dropping the CA, assuming you've taken it at the recommended dose all this time, but if it were me personally I would take it til the bottle was gone just to make extra sure that my cholesterol and lipids and everything else was back in check.

From what you say about your test recovering, that seems like a sure sign, but the only way to tell 100% is to get checked by your doc.

Looks like you've done everything by the book though and glad to see you're still gaining!
 
Ur right...I'm just gonna finish the bottle. I'll just get an extra bottle if there is a next time. Considering all the costs (food especially) it's not a big deal. Yeah...I'm going to get another blood test anyway, just curious. Its been on my mind since i know i was shutdown. I think I will wait til a month AFTER PCT in case some numbers are a bit off still but improving (unless I don't feel right when I come of Nolva maybe)... that way I can use my post bloods as my next pre bloods too possibly.

Thanx for the response

DICE
 
I'm not taking CA from the get go... I'll supplement things I deem necessary like, Milk thistle haw. berry, fresh celery (lipids etc.), Green tea, maybe some other antioxidants, and zinc... you'll be fine dropping it, if you still eat healthy etc. (which is more important than CA). ;)

I think it's a good indicator (as for your test). Do you notice getting horny more often? Or sometimes your temper being set off "a bit" quicker?

Other than that, i'd check it by a doc.

Aren't you gonna supplement with something after Nolva, like Erase?
 
UPDATE DAY 22 PCT

Starting weight ~200
PCT Day 1 weight 210
Today weight 209.5

I am on my last week of PCT now. Nothing has changed really. I got a bit sick the last few days but don't think it has anything to do with my cycle. Something stressful came along a few days ago, I slept horribly because of it that night and being run down the next day I got a cold. Feel better today with some sniffles, but going away. My last leg day was another personal best for me (the day before i got sick) and I did 4 sets of 315 x 8 reps (first time with 3 plates) and my dumbbell step-ups were also up. When I was doing my stepups I overheard two cute girls saying, "check out that guys quad strength, wow." I think it helped me get a couple extra reps out, LOL. I kinda think my strength might have been higher before but never really tested my limits enough. But my legs are def not getting weaker like some claim in PCT. A big reason why I wanted to cycle was to improve my skating strength for hockey so I put a little extra emphasis on that area. Plus, a large percentage of your LBM is there so i thought it would be a good place to reap benefits. My bench was a tiny bit off (bout a rep for everything) the other day but I'm sure that was due to the cold. I can still feel my liver a bit, but it is still slowly getting better. If I had to guess I would say another week or so and it should be gone. Wishing the days away at this point. I really want to get off EVERYTHING at this point, hold it a bit longer and then cut. For my cut I play to keep the weights high but lower the sets. Like 2 sets of everything with a shorter rest between sets. So like 20 minutes of heavy weights followed by 40 mins running and/or swimming in the mornings on a low GI carb/high protein diet. (extra legumes with lean meats and lots of healthy fat). Not sure if I can do weights like that in the mornings though. I might do my running/swimming at 6AM, and then at 6PM do 20 mins of heavy weights when I get home from work, so long as i still have adequate strength to lift heavy after a morning workout. I like exercising in the am before I eat anything though. It's a great way to burn fat quickly I find.

DICE
 
NICE!!! yeah a cute chick will always get an extra rep outta ya! hahaha..
 
Oh, i meant to mention a couple things. As I mentioned I am taking Activate Xtreme to help boost test. But, I also found the following info on ways you can boost your test naturally. Many of them we all already do as weightlifters, but I learned a few I thought were interesting, like eating peanuts, eating more fats in general and getting wood. Did you know that just getting an erection significantly boosts free circulating testosterone? Anyway, check out this link. For the hell of it I have been eating about 1/3 a cup a day of peanuts, snacking throughout the day. Also, not in this link below, but I've read that they found spinach also boosts test, but for it to be significant you have to eat like a pound a day. I don't eat that much but I do make an effort to eat extra. Spinach tip...look in your grocers freezer for "spinach cubes". These are VERY handy! You can nuke them in a bit of water for 90 seconds and they are good to go. I put them in my morning eggs or pasta sauce.

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Also, for POST PCT I was debating on taking something to help with possible Estro rebound. I have inhibit-e (which I doubt I will take and might be too late now anyway) and have been thinking of placing an order for some other non steroidal AI. At this point I think I am going to try to just get off everything and see how it goes. I don't want to jump from supp to supp. There needs to be an endgame. I just want to get the cycle behind me and move on if I can unless I get some significant sides. I did read that you can take 1000mg 3x daily of Vitamin C and that has a mild estro controlling ability. I like this idea since Vit C is very safe and impossible to take too much of. Cheap too. picked up a bottle at the Pharmacy at lunch. Anyone have any anti-estro advice in case I have trouble when my nolva is ceased?
 
BURNT DICE said:
Oh, i meant to mention a couple things. As I mentioned I am taking Activate Xtreme to help boost test. But, I also found the following info on ways you can boost your test naturally. Many of them we all already do as weightlifters, but I learned a few I thought were interesting, like eating peanuts, eating more fats in general and getting wood. Did you know that just getting an erection significantly boosts free circulating testosterone? Anyway, check out this link. For the hell of it I have been eating about 1/3 a cup a day of peanuts, snacking throughout the day. Also, not in this link below, but I've read that they found spinach also boosts test, but for it to be significant you have to eat like a pound a day. I don't eat that much but I do make an effort to eat extra. Spinach tip...look in your grocers freezer for "spinach cubes". These are VERY handy! You can nuke them in a bit of water for 90 seconds and they are good to go. I put them in my morning eggs or pasta sauce.

Invalid Link Removed

Also, for POST PCT I was debating on taking something to help with possible Estro rebound. I have inhibit-e (which I doubt I will take and might be too late now anyway) and have been thinking of placing an order for some other non steroidal AI. At this point I think I am going to try to just get off everything and see how it goes. I don't want to jump from supp to supp. There needs to be an endgame. I just want to get the cycle behind me and move on if I can unless I get some significant sides. I did read that you can take 1000mg 3x daily of Vitamin C and that has a mild estro controlling ability. I like this idea since Vit C is very safe and impossible to take too much of. Cheap too. picked up a bottle at the Pharmacy at lunch. Anyone have any anti-estro advice in case I have trouble when my nolva is ceased?
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I'm not positive but I think supplementing with Vitamin C also helps control cortisol. Another natural way to control estrogen is to take it easy on the drinking, and stick to red wine if you do drink, the resveratrol in it is good.
You probably won't have much estro rebound if any at all, but if you run the inhibit-e low dosed that should do the trick.
 
BURNT DICE said:
I did read that you can take 1000mg 3x daily of Vitamin C and that has a mild estro controlling ability. I like this idea since Vit C is very safe and impossible to take too much of. Cheap too. picked up a bottle at the Pharmacy at lunch. Anyone have any anti-estro advice in case I have trouble when my nolva is ceased?
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Yea, it also helps cortisol control in high amounts.

Don't forget the Zink, helps boost test, and keep estro in check (probably not significantly, but it won't hurt just like vit. C).
 
UPDATE - PCT COMPLETE

OK, so my PCT is basically done now and I took my last dose of nolva Sunday night. I still have about 4 more days of Activate Xtreme which I started ~week 2 of PCT. Last night I slept like a log and today i felt a bit sleepy this morning actually. But, I noticed I felt a bit harder and looked a bit leaner today too. Might just be a coincidence, but I wonder if coming off everything now might do either of those things. Nothing significant though. Could just be a good "fat day".

I was going to start cutting after PCT, but on the advice of others I have decided to wait another month for best results. I am really eager to shed some fat, but i want to make sure I keep my somewhat limited gains, which I think is about 6lbs muscle and 4 pounds fat. Hard to say. The wife says I do look bigger, I feel bigger and my lifting stats are up from pre cycle but my pants are a bit snugger too...so I'll go with that. Maybe 5 and 5...maybe 7 and 3...hard to say for sure. I have increased healthy fats in my diet mostly via peanuts as I hear that eating more fats and peanuts are good to boost testosterone. Also, i am eating some cabbage everyday which is known to help regulate/lower estrogen. I have not touched my AI and probably won't unless i start to feel like I might be getting estro rebound, which is probably unlikely. I plan to get some blood-work in a couple weeks to make sure that everything has come back fine. I am going to stay away from alcohol for another month just to be nice to my liver and alcohol lowers test too, not a great idea at this point. I don't drink except for the occasional glass of wine anyway, so it is not a problem. I WILL probably continue to take Milk Thistle though after maybe a week without. MT is just generally good for you...cycle or not. My diet is always clean anyway, so I won't change that. Lots of real whole foods, lean proteins and healthy fats in general. I'm hoping that helps me ensure everything comes back with good numbers for my next bloods.

Not sure what else to say. My plan is to do a final update after my next bloods. Unless something comes up between now and then this might be my second to last "update"

DICE
 
Great update

Appreciate the detailed info all the way thru as I will be jumping on my stack very soon and have just as many concerns around PCT as I do the stack.

I agree with not cutting yet, really need to solidify those gains.

Looking forward to the final update..
 
Yea, always interesting to read. ;)

Btw. I'm on day 5 and can already tell muscles are harder, even long after workouts.
 
Hey, I wanted to say great job on your h-drol run. Did you ever get after pics to go with your before? Also, for your next cycle, what would you do differently?
 
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