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First PH cycle 1 andro/4 andro

StormBringer0

New member
Hey guys first post but I've been lurking the forums here for a while haha. Anyways I'll be 26 in a month and have finally decided to take that next step as I've been mostly plateaued for a while now. A little back ground I've been training for almost 10 years 5-6 days a week mainly bodybuilding with some powerlifting type training thrown in. I'm 6'2 230-235 lbs and around 15% bf last time I got it checked.

I've decided to take the dhea route for this first one and am torn between Hard Rock Supplements Super Mandro/Andro the Giant and Blackstone Labs Chosen1 and Brutal 4ce. I know the BSL seems underdosed but the absorption rate is suppose to be superior and I know they've made some decent products in the past and I've heard some good things about the Hard Rock Supplements stack as well so I'm torn on these two.

Looking to run these stacked for 8 weeks. Pct would be clomid 50/50/25/25 unless anyone as any advice or recommendations on why nolva or something else would be better. I will also be taking an on cycle support during cycle and pct. Finally I'm a little confused about an AI I know there's plenty of products with Arimistane that I can take during my cycle to help block estrogen but what confuses me is would I continue it during my pct or start taking it again post pct?

I've seen it used on cycle, pct, and post pct but that would be 16 weeks of Arimistane which I wouldn't want to do unless necessary. I would also take a natural test booster durning my pct/post pct as well if recommend to continue it post pct. My biggest concerns with this cycle though I know it is on the mild side would be a major loss of libdo(I know some is common I'm talking complete shutdown), gyno because I had some during puberty, and excessive hair loss though I know there's dht blockers and shampoos I can use.

Sorry for the long post I just want to make sure I get everything straight and then I'll lay it out for you guys. Will probably log it or at least do a review at the end recapping each week with maybe some before and after pictures. Thanks again for the help.
 
You could try the Andro quad by primeval labs and Andro 1 max by primeval labs. For an ai adex would be fine. Your pct looks good with clomid that how I'm running mine (50/50/25/25) but with OL super pct + OL ep1c unleashed. For your on cycle try OL armicare pro
 
Just my opinion here, but I would stay away from arimistane...not a whole lot of solid research behind it besides what the companys selling it are giving out. seeing as how 4-andro will aromatize...I would go with a real ai. adex would certainly suffice, but there is always the king exemestane. 6.25mg daily would probably be sufficient if you are interested in running it. I have just never had much luck with arimistane, and I personally don't take chances while on cycle especially with gyno issues.

the best thing about exemestane is you don't have to worry about rebound gyno like you do with adex or letro. there is no tapering or any other b.s. either. take it on cycle and through pct. great versatile compound.
 
x82bones said:
Just my opinion here, but I would stay away from arimistane...not a whole lot of solid research behind it besides what the companys selling it are giving out. seeing as how 4-andro will aromatize...I would go with a real ai. adex would certainly suffice, but there is always the king exemestane. 6.25mg daily would probably be sufficient if you are interested in running it. I have just never had much luck with arimistane, and I personally don't take chances while on cycle especially with gyno issues.

the best thing about exemestane is you don't have to worry about rebound gyno like you do with adex or letro. there is no tapering or any other b.s. either. take it on cycle and through pct. great versatile compound.
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Agreed homie...arimistane has no proof of being antiestrogenic imo and from my experience it's not effective. Have exemestane on hand. Clomid dosage is solid, maybe run a otc pct with it like sup3r pct as it covers every area that pct requires. Cycle support wise, I'm planning on running lgi damage control for my next cycle so that's one worth looking into, cel cycle assist would be another great option as you plan to run a longer cycle
 
NattyBoy said:
Agreed homie...arimistane has no proof of being antiestrogenic imo and from my experience it's not effective. Have exemestane on hand. Clomid dosage is solid, maybe run a otc pct with it like sup3r pct as it covers every area that pct requires. Cycle support wise, I'm planning on running lgi damage control for my next cycle so that's one worth looking into, cel cycle assist would be another great option as you plan to run a longer cycle
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Thanks for the responses guys I'm looking into exemestane...it's a little more expensive than I was hoping haha but better safe than sorry. So would I start taking it week 1-12 or would it just be something to have on hand during cycle for any issues and then start week 8-12 with pct if all goes smoothly? Also if anyone would like to pm me to see if my sources for clomid and exemestane are legit that would help.

Yeah I'm thinking about OL sup3r pct and OL Ar1macare Pro on cycle but would that be AI over kill since both of those contain an AI as well as the exemestane?
 
Burnfire said:
You could try the Andro quad by primeval labs and Andro 1 max by primeval labs. For an ai adex would be fine. Your pct looks good with clomid that how I'm running mine (50/50/25/25) but with OL super pct + OL ep1c unleashed. For your on cycle try OL armicare pro
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Andro quad has underdosed (literally 25mg) 1&4 andros and it also has 10mg of osta per serving. Two doses daily would provide 50mg of each Andro and 20mg of osta. If he added 1-Andro max he would still only be at 180mg of 1-Andro daily.

Go with super mandro and mandro the giant OP. The BSL absorption/delivery is still probably not enough to turn 65mg into a minimum of 300-which is where you want to be with these two compounds.

The rest of the stuff seems on point and tbh you should be able to run OL AI, letrone, or inhibit e for an ai and be fine. The estrogenic sides should be minimal if any.
 
Afi140 said:
Andro quad has underdosed (literally 25mg) 1&4 andros and it also has 10mg of osta per serving. Two doses daily would provide 50mg of each Andro and 20mg of osta. If he added 1-Andro max he would still only be at 180mg of 1-Andro daily.

Go with super mandro and mandro the giant OP. The BSL absorption/delivery is still probably not enough to turn 65mg into a minimum of 300-which is where you want to be with these two compounds.

The rest of the stuff seems on point and tbh you should be able to run OL AI, letrone, or inhibit e for an ai and be fine. The estrogenic sides should be minimal if any.
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Yeah I don't think I'm gonna go with BSL probably gonna go with Super Mandro and Andro the Giant though I hear OL is about to come out with their line of dhea products. If those come out within the next month I would maybe go with those if they are dosed high and priced competitively.

I'm just trying to make sure I get everything perfect and laid out before I start. Only thing really set in stone is clomid for pct. I'm sure those AI's you listed would work well and I would probably use one of those but still maybe have exemestane on hand or to at least run durning pct.
 
StormBringer0 said:
Yeah I don't think I'm gonna go with BSL probably gonna go with Super Mandro and Andro the Giant though I hear OL is about to come out with their line of dhea products. If those come out within the next month I would maybe go with those if they are dosed high and priced competitively.

I'm just trying to make sure I get everything perfect and laid out before I start. Only thing really set in stone is clomid for pct. I'm sure those AI's you listed would work well and I would probably use one of those but still maybe have exemestane on hand or to at least run durning pct.
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Oh yeah man do the research and get what you want! If your going to spend the cash, get what you want. Just take your time and don't jump into it til your ready and have it planned out. Yeah keep the exemestane or adex on hand
 
Individuals vary, but it is highly unlikely that the 2 step 4-DHEA is going to give you Estrogen problems. You *need* to have Exemestane on hand always, just in case, but I wouldn't use an RC/Pharm AI for a DHEA cycle. OTC "AI's" don't give the immediate impact you need for breast tissue related issues anyway. So then you end up playing "Guess Yo Estro" by needlessly popping capsules which may actually inhibit progress ( Estrogen does good things). Unless you know your levels, stay off an AI - if you notice symptoms, open the Aromasin for immediate damage control.

If you're that worried, either Add Epiandro, or switch to it as a Base. It imparts some AI on it's own.

PCT is about getting your HPTA "pumping" again. There is one thing that does this the best, and nothing you add to it can make it better - SERMs. Clomid is better for jump starting, but Nolva protects breast tissue better... they both affect LH in different ways. There is some good data that using both in PCT is the best way. Again, for the DHEAs, with the SERMs protecting you, you don't need an AI in PCT (but you do have it in the cabinet, remember?) :)
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Individuals vary, but it is highly unlikely that the 2 step 4-DHEA is going to give you Estrogen problems. You *need* to have Exemestane on hand always, just in case, but I wouldn't use an RC/Pharm AI for a DHEA cycle. OTC "AI's" don't give the immediate impact you need for breast tissue related issues anyway. So then you end up playing "Guess Yo Estro" by needlessly popping capsules which may actually inhibit progress ( Estrogen does good things). Unless you know your levels, stay off an AI - if you notice symptoms, open the Aromasin for immediate damage control.

If you're that worried, either Add Epiandro, or switch to it as a Base. It imparts some AI on it's own.

PCT is about getting your HPTA "pumping" again. There is one thing that does this the best, and nothing you add to it can make it better - SERMs. Clomid is better for jump starting, but Nolva protects breast tissue better... they both affect LH in different ways. There is some good data that using both in PCT is the best way. Again, for the DHEAs, with the SERMs protecting you, you don't need an AI in PCT (but you do have it in the cabinet, remember?) :)
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I've thought about adding Epiandro to this cycle but with it being my first one probably just gonna stick with the 1/4 DHEA combo. I'm definitely gonna have Exemestane on hand for this but hopefully won't need it. I know some estrogen is good which is why this AI thing is confusing me. If I go with OL sup3r pct and OL Ar1macare Pro would that be over kill because they both contain AI's even though they are OTC? I don't want to over complicate this more than it needs to be, I just want to take the right precautions and have the right stuff to get the most out of it and be protected.

Only reason I'm so worried about estro sides is the fear of a large loss of libido and gyno because my nipples have that kinda "soft look" I guess is the best way to describe it. They look fine when it's cold out or what not but normally they have a softer look. Could be higher bf% or water retention, no nipple rocks, they aren't really sensitive or anything so I should be fine but I had some gyno during puberty with nipple rocks but they went away afterwards.

I'm thinking:

Weeks 1-8

1/4 DHEA combo either Super Mandro/Andro the Giant or if OL comes out with there's soon
OL Ar1macare Pro during cycle with Exemestane on hand

Weeks 9-12

PCT:
Clomid 50/50/25/25 with OL Sup3r PCT

13-16
Maybe a natty stack with OTC AI in case of estro rebound after Clomid?
 
Alright so getting this cycle all together looking to start it hopefully Monday the 21st. Still a little unsure about AI on pct I've seen people use them on pct and other times no AI because of possible rebound after pct?

This is what I'm looking at running so far:

Weeks 1-8:
-Super Mandro
-Andro the Giant
-OL Ar1mcare Pro for on cycle support, unless another support supp is recommended
-Letrone or possible Exemestane on hand

Weeks 9-12:
-Clomid 50/50/25/25
-OL Sup3r Pct, same goes for this if something better is recommended instead.
-Letrone weeks 11-14 to round it out maybe throw in another natty booster with this pct if advised.

Thanks for the feedback guys, wanna make this a good run to bust through the 240 lb plateau and make some solid gains.
 
There is no "Letrone or Exemestane on hand". One is a plant based product, that if it works in people, probably needs to be dosed for a long time to see an effect. The other is a pharmaceutical drug that will immediately whack the Aromatase Enzyme when your nipples start to get sensitive without you touching them all the time.

You're worried about Gyno, but don't have Nolva?

Here's my simple PCT for a DHEA cycle: Clomid 40/30/20/20 (My source is 40mg/Ml) Nolva 20/15/10/10/10EOD/10EOD (EOD=Every Other Day). If you want to make the second week the same as the first, go ahead - won't hurt. 'Tis it - pretty simple. N=1, do what makes you comfortable though.
 
Ok so everything looks good except have Exemestane on hand for AI and add Nolva to Pct with Clomid running it two extra weeks past Clomid? What about an AI during pct and my support sups like Ar1mcare Pro and Sup3r Pct? Are those all good?
 
StormBringer0 said:
Ok so everything looks good except have Exemestane on hand for AI and add Nolva to Pct with Clomid running it two extra weeks past Clomid? What about an AI during pct and my support sups like Ar1mcare Pro and Sup3r Pct? Are those all good?
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I like OL super pct and OL armicare pro. That's what I used on cycle and using in pct
 
Burnfire said:
I like OL super pct and OL armicare pro. That's what I used on cycle and using in pct
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Yeah they seem to be a pretty good pair to run on cycle and pct. I'll probably go with those just getting pct and AI straight and I should be good to go.

I guess I could run Epiandro instead of 4-DHEA to limit estro problems, or run all three but for my first cycle I would prefer to run just two compounds. I like the idea of 4-DHEA being a test base for my first cycle though.
 
Yes sir make sure you have a good ai and you'll be good. Then clomid as well for pct maybe some OL epic unleashed
 
Burnfire said:
OL legend 4/4/8/8
Into
Trest 75/75/75/125/150/200
Halofire 75/75/75/75/75/75
OL armicare pro
Exemestane 12.5mg e3d

Pct
Clomid 50/50/25/25
OL super pct
OL epic unleashed
Click to expand...

I like the idea of taking Exemestane every other day or 3rd day though hopefully I won't need to use it at all unless problems pop up. I know your cycle was more extreme with trest.
 
Also if anyone minds pm me so I can verify my sources for pct that would be awesome. Right now only thing I'm looking at are RC which are fine if they are from a legit source.
 
StormBringer0 said:
I like the idea of taking Exemestane every other day or 3rd day though hopefully I won't need to use it at all unless problems pop up. I know your cycle was more extreme with trest.
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Correct start taking the exemestane if problems like itchy nips start happening
 
StormBringer0 said:
Ok so everything looks good except have Exemestane on hand for AI and add Nolva to Pct with Clomid running it two extra weeks past Clomid? What about an AI during pct and my support sups like Ar1mcare Pro and Sup3r Pct? Are those all good?
Click to expand...

PCT is about Homeostasis. Let the Clomid get the boys at full tilt again, let the Nolva protect the Breast Tissue (as well as HPTA help) as your body clears any excess Estrogen via the CYP Enzymatic pathway. No need for an AI in PCT IMO (at least for DHEAs - Stronger stuff is out of my wheel house). As far as the other stuff like Liver care, Lipid care, etc.. Yeah, I take a bunch of separates for that, because I don't like individual stuff in 'All in Ones', but if you find one you like, sure. I also pretty much consider a lot of that stuff as daily staples - so for me Daily>On Cycle Support>PCT Support varies very little... I just basically back off the Liver stuff. Those products are fine that you mentioned.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
PCT is about Homeostasis. Let the Clomid get the boys at full tilt again, let the Nolva protect the Breast Tissue (as well as HPTA help) as your body clears any excess Estrogen via the CYP Enzymatic pathway. No need for an AI in PCT IMO (at least for DHEAs - Stronger stuff is out of my wheel house). As far as the other stuff like Liver care, Lipid care, etc.. Yeah, I take a bunch of separates for that, because I don't like individual stuff in 'All in Ones', but if you find one you like, sure. I also pretty much consider a lot of that stuff as daily staples - so for me Daily>On Cycle Support>PCT Support varies very little... I just basically back off the Liver stuff. Those products are fine that you mentioned.
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Had my wisdom teeth taken out so I've been out for a few days but in continuing my research I believe I've located pharma clomid, nolva, and adex so if anyone wants to dm me so I can see if my sources are g2g that would be sweet.

If I am able to get these then I'll go with those for pct and AI and include the OL support products. Also if I get these I would contemplate making the cycle stronger maybe adding in Epi andro for weeks 5-8 or picking up another bottle of 1 DHEA so I would run three bottles of that over 8 weeks to make it stronger. Maybe something like..

Weeks 1-8
Andro the Giant
330/330/330/330/330/330/330/330
Super Mandeo
330/330/330/330/330/330/330/330
OL Ar1mcare Pro
Adex on hand

Weeks 5-8
Androvar 300-400 mg a day
Or
Spread another bottle of Super Mandro out over the 8 weeks

Pct
Clomid
50/50/25/25
Nolva
20/20/10/10/10 eod/10 eod
OL Sup3r Pct

Adex AI not during pct unless needed? Maybe EOD during weeks 5-8 on cycle?
 
Never used Arimidex, seems overboard for a DHEA cycle even if just used in an emergency. You can't find Aromasin? I told you my opinion about AI's for DHEA cycles, either on cycle or in PCT - Not Unless Needed. EpiA imparts some AI on it's own.
 
Not sure if I'm gonna stack Epi with this or run a third bottle of 1 DHEA. Having trouble finding pharma Aromasin is the problem but I'm able to locate pharma Arimidex which is why I'm considering that. If I use that I would probably run it weeks 5-8 on cycle maybe .5 EOD maybe taper into .25 EOD weeks 7-8 then start Clomid/Nolva PCT since I shouldn't need the Arimidex on PCT. I'm still on the lookout for Aromasin though which I would choose over Adex for sure.
 
Alright think I have everything situated, gonna place my order tonight with the plan of starting next Monday. I'm open to any changes or suggestions and thanks to everyone who helped out. Just wanna get this thread finalized with the plan of starting a fresh one as a log/review so people won't have to go through all the text in this one as I tend to ramble haha..

As of now going with:

Weeks 1-8
Andro the Giant
330/330/330/330/330/330/330/330
Super Mandro
330/330/330/330/440/440/550/550 (open to suggestions)
OL Ar1mcare Pro EOD weeks 1-4 then every day 5-8
Arimidex weeks 5-8 .5 eod/.5 eod/.25 eod/.25 eod (still trying to find pharma exemestane if I do things would change)

Pct
Clomid
50/50/25/25
Nolva
20/20/10/10/10 eod/10-5 eod
OL Sup3r pct

Don't think I'll need adex in there hopefully.
Thanks again guys
 
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