First methyl compound?

Fartknocker

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For a first time ds, methylated ph user. Where would be a good place to start. I have a few andro and sarm cycles under my belt. In no hurry to dip my toes in that water but just researching for something maybe late this year. Hexadrone, dmz, m1a or msten maybe. Most likely be on a lean bulk.
 
Smont

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For a first time ds, methylated ph user. Where would be a good place to start. I have a few andro and sarm cycles under my belt. In no hurry to dip my toes in that water but just researching for something maybe late this year. Hexadrone, dmz, m1a or msten maybe. Most likely be on a lean bulk.
Personal preference really, just don't start with the strongest or you got nowhere to go after.

Ideas, all solo.

Hdrol 75mg for 6weeks.
Epistane 30mg for 6 weeks.
Msten 20mg for 4-6 weeks.

Those are all good starters, pick one. Stack with either

4 andro 330mg or epiandro 500-1000mg.

Only combo I wouldn't do is epistane/epiandro, too dry
 
bigbeaph

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Personal preference really, just don't start with the strongest or you got nowhere to go after.

Ideas, all solo.

Hdrol 75mg for 6weeks.
Epistane 30mg for 6 weeks.
Msten 20mg for 4-6 weeks.

Those are all good starters, pick one. Stack with either

4 andro 330mg or epiandro 500-1000mg.

Only combo I wouldn't do is epistane/epiandro, too dry
Good advice there OP. With 1ad being available in the uk that might be a good next step too. Non-methyl, less sides than most, but methyl ds type gains.
 
AnabolicGuru

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Personal preference really, just don't start with the strongest or you got nowhere to go after.

Ideas, all solo.

Hdrol 75mg for 6weeks.
Epistane 30mg for 6 weeks.
Msten 20mg for 4-6 weeks.

Those are all good starters, pick one. Stack with either

4 andro 330mg or epiandro 500-1000mg.

Only combo I wouldn't do is epistane/epiandro, too dry
Yup, this. Personally though, epistane causes me a fair share of sides, so I’d be cautious with it.
 
Apsmith4992

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Halo at 75 isnt bad... no water and I didnt get crap for sides on it at 100
 

Fartknocker

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Having a hard time finding some of that. Are Msten gains keepable long term?
 
AnabolicGuru

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Having a hard time finding some of that. Are Msten gains keepable long term?
“Keepable” is a bit of a controversial thing in my opinion. It will depend on the individual and the work ethic they have following the cycle. Although I will say that wetter compounds will typically be less “keepable” in the sense that you will likely shed more water when discontinuing use.
 
Old Witch

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Keepability of gains has a lot to do with increases in muscle protein synthesis vs increases in glycogen storage. You will inevitably soften as the glycogen cannot be retained nearly as well, but if that’s all the steroid had brought to the party, you’ll basically end up back at square one very quickly regardless of what else you might try to do.
 

JoePaul39

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Keepability of gains has a lot to do with increases in muscle protein synthesis vs increases in glycogen storage. You will inevitably soften as the glycogen cannot be retained nearly as well, but if that’s all the steroid had brought to the party, you’ll basically end up back at square one very quickly regardless of what else you might try to do.
Being on trt helps significantly with keeping gains too doesn’t it?
 
bigbeaph

bigbeaph

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Keepability of gains has a lot to do with increases in muscle protein synthesis vs increases in glycogen storage. You will inevitably soften as the glycogen cannot be retained nearly as well, but if that’s all the steroid had brought to the party, you’ll basically end up back at square one very quickly regardless of what else you might try to do.
I think the confusion on the subject has to do with the definition of "gains". One might say the scenario you have described didnt lose gains bc there were no gains....built muscle will still be muscle to maintain after cycle...like you said...glycogen/water is a passing effect
 
Old Witch

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I think the confusion on the subject has to do with the definition of "gains". One might say the scenario you have described didnt lose gains bc there were no gains....built muscle will still be muscle to maintain after cycle...like you said...glycogen/water is a passing effect
Exactly. If it’s all water and no tissue, there is no gain.
 

Fartknocker

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Is something like 15-20mg of msten without any test base at all going to be a horrible idea?
 
Renew1

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Is something like 15-20mg of msten without any test base at all going to be a horrible idea?
It won't hurt you, but you might feel crappy. ... Especially toward the end.
 

Fartknocker

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Thing is im not gonna pin. Dont really wanna mess with trest at this point and i feel like andros are kinda pointless. Maybe some cardarine. I never have bp issues so i might just be drinking lots of coffee. I have 60 ml at 15mg per ml. Later this year i was thinking just start at 15 and go as long as i can still eat
 

Fartknocker

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If there are any other good options id love to hear some opinions
 

jrock645

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If there are any other good options id love to hear some opinions
Ill never run anything without pinning again. Both of my last two oral cycles i felt like a dead man walking by day 17. Im over 3 weeks in on current pinning cycle and still feel good. Theres a reason they say test is best.
 

Fartknocker

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I just cant at the moment with the family situation. My old lady would kill me. She would be very understanding if it was prescribed though. I guess im just biding my time. At 40 thats probably not far off for me
 

jrock645

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I just cant at the moment with the family situation. My old lady would kill me. She would be very understanding if it was prescribed though. I guess im just biding my time. At 40 thats probably not far off for me
Understandable but tough to make a recommendation. Some people can run the stuff without a base and feel ok. I could 10 years ago. Only 1 way to find out.
 
RickyBlobby

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PRO msten at 20mg a day and 7 alpha ace at 30mg a day. Alongside aromasin 12.5mg eod ramping up as needed.

You won’t recognize yourself after 6 weeks. Your receptors are fresh, take advantage of that and GET YOUR DIET IN POINT.

💯
 

Fartknocker

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7 alpha is trest right? Is that transderm or oral?
 

Fartknocker

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PRe has both. Id prefer the convenience of oral but im sure transderm is better and easier on my system?
 

Fartknocker

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Im a little scared of trest like i said earlier. I know its my best option. I have plenty of aromasin and nolva on hand but id assume itd be a good idea to get some ralox if i went that way? Anything else? Not prami or caber needed?
 
Renew1

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Im a little scared of trest like i said earlier. I know its my best option. I have plenty of aromasin and nolva on hand but id assume itd be a good idea to get some ralox if i went that way? Anything else? Not prami or caber needed?
Personally, if it were me (and I had plenty of cash) I'd get Ralox and Inhibit-P. With what you've already got, you should be more than covered.
 
RickyBlobby

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PRO msten at 20mg a day and 7 alpha ace at 30mg a day. Alongside aromasin 12.5mg eod ramping up as needed.

You won’t recognize yourself after 6 weeks. Your receptors are fresh, take advantage of that and GET YOUR DIET IN POINT.

💯
 

bradleyt1

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Get 4-AD not 4-andro.. 4-andro is dhea bullshit that barely feels anything like test.. 4-AD on the other hand directly converts in 1 step
 
Renew1

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Get 4-AD not 4-andro.. 4-andro is dhea bullshit that barely feels anything like test.. 4-AD on the other hand directly converts in 1 step
He's talking about Trest, not 4-Andro. ... And Trest makes 4AD feel like BS in comparison. Not that he's trying to feel anything from it ... He's just trying to avoid lethargy (which any of the 3 would accomplish).
 

Fartknocker

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Get 4-AD not 4-andro.. 4-andro is dhea bullshit that barely feels anything like test.. 4-AD on the other hand directly converts in 1 step
Im not really seeing that around. Also hard to tell if they are really just 4 andro labeled as 4 ad
 

Fartknocker

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Ok so i think i got my cycle planned out here. Let me know how stupid i am please.

Synergy trest ace td at 20mg ed to start
Msten at 15 mg ed to start.
I figure on maybe doubling the trest by week 3 and the msten maybe to 20. Hoping to make it 5 to 6 weeks.

Support is cel cycle assist, inhibit p and 500 mg tudca ed.

I have weird 11mg aromasin tabs so ill start probably 2 a week. Up it to eod if i increase trest or notice any symptoms.

Pct is nolva 20/20/10/10 with probably a few days at 40 to start. Natty test booster throughout and rebirth and letrone after nolva stops.

Only really done a few cycles of sarms and epiandro so this is by far my most potent run and wanted to keep doses as low as possible while still putting on some good lean pounds. Have been fortunate and kept most all gains from previous sarm cycles.


Also wasnt really sure about dosing schedule. Do i need to split dosing up twice a day for both or can i get away with say the trest am and msten pm?
 
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jrock645

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20mg of trest TD is going to be pretty pointless imo.
 

Fartknocker

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I realize that. Was going for mostly helping the lethargy and all around crappiness of msten.
 
Smont

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I realize that. Was going for mostly helping the lethargy and all around crappiness of msten.
20mg won't help with that. 50minium. Unless you got that alpha ace version, apparently 30mg of that is plenty
 
Smont

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Have you used msten? Not everyone feels crappy on it.
 

Fartknocker

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Just says trestolone acetate. Nope ive never used either. What do you recommend dose timing for both?
 
Smont

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That's the regular transdermal trest.

I would do 25mg trest and 10mg msten 2xday for 6 weeks. I'd also take 12.5mg exemestane eod. If it was my cycle
 
Renew1

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I realize that. Was going for mostly helping the lethargy and all around crappiness of msten.
20mg of Trest Ace TD is plenty to fight lethargy.
 
Renew1

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20mg won't help with that. 50minium. Unless you got that alpha ace version, apparently 30mg of that is plenty
Smont, the Alpha Ace (or 7Alpha Ace) is just Trestolone Acetate. The "7Alpha" part is merely referring to the chemical structure of Trestolone (7Alpha).

It is way stronger (in effects) than the OL Tr3st non estered version.
 
Smont

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Smont, the Alpha Ace (or 7Alpha Ace) is just Trestolone Acetate. The "7Alpha" part is merely referring to the chemical structure of Trestolone (7Alpha).

It is way stronger (in effects) than the OL Tr3st non estered version.
Ok so it's the same as the pre stuff. I completely agree with you then. I've seen ppl get good results with that at 30mg a day. In that case 10mg of each 2x a day would be gtg
 
Smont

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Smont, the Alpha Ace (or 7Alpha Ace) is just Trestolone Acetate. The "7Alpha" part is merely referring to the chemical structure of Trestolone (7Alpha).

It is way stronger (in effects) than the OL Tr3st non estered version.
What's the half life on the ace? Can that go1x a day. I hate doing transdermal and really hate multiple doses per day
 
Renew1

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What's the half life on the ace? Can that go1x a day. I hate doing transdermal and really hate multiple doses per day
If I remember correctly, it is 8-12 hrs. So 2× daily would probably be optimal, but I generally do once a day, AM because it has a slight stimulation effect on me, and my sleep is easily disturbed.
 

Fartknocker

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What's the half life on the ace? Can that go1x a day. I hate doing transdermal and really hate multiple doses per day
Yeah once a day in the morning would really be much easier as i wouldnt wanna worry about sleeping with the old lady or washing it off before absorbed in a pre sleep shower

Do you know how long until its fully absorbed? Or when its generally safe to wash the area without wasting all of it?
 
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Smont

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Yeah once a day in the morning would really be much easier as i wouldnt wanna worry about sleeping with the old lady or washing it off before absorbed in a pre sleep shower

Do you know how long until its fully absorbed? Or when its generally safe to wash the area without wasting all of it?
With transdermals I usually get up, take a hot shower, apply the transdermal and then I hit the gym about 45 minutes later. I can't really say how long before it's fully absorbed I just knew 45 minutes was enough for it to dry and I didn't feel like I was sweating it out. I've done that with the Olympus Labs version which is not ace, and I've done it with dermacrine. I have not personally used the trst ace transdermal on myself
 

Fartknocker

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Would anybody suggest maybe staggering the starting point of the cycle for either compound? Like starting the trest a week earlier than the msten and continue for a week after?
 

Fartknocker

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Should i be dosing aromasin from the get go even if i get no high e sides? Ive read it can build up and hit a point where ur fighting to get it under control. I was assuming the msten being a pretty powerful dht would help as well?
 

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