First Injectible cycle - test/tren?

Disturb

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So, I had plans to run trest but Im not 100% sure I'm ready for that. Maybe for my next cycle in 2019/2020. In the mean time I plan to cross over into the dark side and start pinning. That said, I'm looking to do a test/tren cycle as below. I'm looking to lean up a bit but I really want strength.

Week 1-12 500mg/wk Test E with a test P kickstart

Week 1-12 300mg/wk Tren E with a tren A kickstart

Week 1-12 40mg Torem ED

I've read quite a bit about both test and tren, a lot of which says to run Tren higher than test(for both gains and sides) , but then I've also read that there's not a whole of reason to run a trt dose of test at like 200mg/wk(which also makes sense). Much of what I've read suggests 500mg/wk of test and those who had run lower, like 300 or 400, had wished that did just start at 500. But obviously, if Im running that much test, I don't want to run more tren, especially on a first tren cycle. Thoughts or suggestions?
 
DemntedCowboy

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So, I had plans to run trest but Im not 100% sure I'm ready for that. Maybe for my next cycle in 2019/2020. In the mean time I plan to cross over into the dark side and start pinning. That said, I'm looking to do a test/tren cycle as below. I'm looking to lean up a bit but I really want strength.

Week 1-12 500mg/wk Test E with a test P kickstart

Week 1-12 300mg/wk Tren E with a tren A kickstart

Week 1-12 40mg Torem ED

I've read quite a bit about both test and tren, a lot of which says to run Tren higher than test(for both gains and sides) , but then I've also read that there's not a whole of reason to run a trt dose of test at like 200mg/wk(which also makes sense). Much of what I've read suggests 500mg/wk of test and those who had run lower, like 300 or 400, had wished that did just start at 500. But obviously, if Im running that much test, I don't want to run more tren, especially on a first tren cycle. Thoughts or suggestions?
Looks good, but if this is your first cycle. I would drop the tren. Also whats your age, height, weight, and lifting experience?
 
booneman77

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if you're not ready for trest, you're not ready for tren... theyre quite similar in terms of "difficulty"

First cycle, hell no to tren or trest. stick to test solo.
 

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Yeah...no one on here is going to green light you for tren on a 1st pin cycle. Especially E...because then you are stuck in the nightmare for a week. Ive been pinning for 15 years and wont touch tren E again. Ive tried to use it several times...but it is a horror show. Trust me..please listen..tren can absolutely destroy you..physically, emotionally, and sexually. It really and truly is...a dance with the devil...for some people. If your dead set on tren...which would be dumb...start at 100 of A eod....see what that is like..see if you are going to be able to handel the sides.
 
Matthersby

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Yeah...no one on here is going to green light you for tren on a 1st pin cycle. Especially E...because then you are stuck in the nightmare for a week. Ive been pinning for 15 years and wont touch tren E again. Ive tried to use it several times...but it is a horror show. Trust me..please listen..tren can absolutely destroy you..physically, emotionally, and sexually. It really and truly is...a dance with the devil...for some people. If your dead set on tren...which would be dumb...start at 100 of A eod....see what that is like..see if you are going to be able to handel the sides.
100 freaking percent this^^^

I’ve been running cycles for almost 10 years, and I still don’t mess with Tren unless there’s a really good reason and my life is prepared for whatever havoc I will unleash on it. If you do AT SOME POINT in the future, always with Ace first. Honestly, the one time I have ran tren, or trest(a dozen times with that one) or Deca for that matter, I always go short ester, 19nors are a handful and if something goes wrong, you’re 3 days away from relief. To this day, I’ve never ran long estered 19nors, in my opinion short are worth the extra few dollars, and I don’t want to run them for 16 weeks. Plus I love needles so it doesn’t phase me. You can’t put a price on peace of mind.
 
Matthersby

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You want to start off with a bang, Test @ 500/week - Oral Winnie @50-60/day.
For me, damn near same results and with waaaay less sides. It won’t transform you like Tren will, but dial in your diet good and you’ll look amazing by week 6
 
Hyde

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Why do all these newbies wanna use tren right out the gate???

OP, save the tren for a very important competition or goal later in your future. It’s not a free ride - I loved oral Trenavar. Crazy strength, drive, libido. And I broke up with my gf of 4 years, moved out, demanded a raise at work, and just generally lost most all empathy or emotion beyond loosely controlled anger.

Trenbolone costs more than physical sides like acne. It will deeply affect your psyche.
 

swimfan65

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Why do all these newbies wanna use tren right out the gate???

OP, save the tren for a very important competition or goal later in your future. It’s not a free ride - I loved oral Trenavar. Crazy strength, drive, libido. And I broke up with my gf of 4 years, moved out, demanded a raise at work, and just generally lost most all empathy or emotion beyond loosely controlled anger.

Trenbolone costs more than physical sides like acne. It will deeply affect your psyche.
Dude thats only on the oral. For real...on tren E 400 a week...i was laying in bed with complete insomnia for days...beet red...sweating...with a painful erection...crying...my emotions could have had me comitted. Thats real talk...it screwed me up so bad...and im a big mother trucker who has taken gear for damn near 2 decades. I thought i was billy bad ass till a met that beast.
 

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I'm 5'10 230 ~16%body fat. 29 Yo. Lifting off and on since a teenager but have been very consistent the past 4 years.

I've ran 1/4/epi a few times, dermacrine/epistane, winstrol, and there was one more that was my first cycle but idr what it was.

Also, I think part of some of the "newbie fascination" with tren is in part the forum bros. I read about about guys my age run tren and their results are awesome. And I'll read stuff like "you only get one first cycle so make it count" etc, so if I'm gonna make it count I'm gonna go big. I like winstrol but even joint supps and fish oil it raped my joints. Really not looking for thst again.

All that said, if I wouldn't be running tren/trest, what compound do you guys suggest that would have a similar(though obviously weaker) leaning/recomp effect while have similar strength gains?
 
Hyde

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Dude thats only on the oral. For real...on tren E 400 a week...i was laying in bed with complete insomnia for days...beet red...sweating...with a painful erection...crying...my emotions could have had me comitted. Thats real talk...it screwed me up so bad...and im a big mother trucker who has taken gear for damn near 2 decades. I thought i was billy bad ass till a met that beast.
Yeah, I could have stopped anytime, unlike Enanthate. Trenavar converts directly to trenbolone at 20-30% it’s believed. 200mg/day was like 40-50 tren/day. I was sweating constantly, steel libido, took forever to finish, acne, always winded, elevated bp, dumb strong.
 
Matthersby

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Why do all these newbies wanna use tren right out the gate???

OP, save the tren for a very important competition or goal later in your future. It’s not a free ride - I loved oral Trenavar. Crazy strength, drive, libido. And I broke up with my gf of 4 years, moved out, demanded a raise at work, and just generally lost most all empathy or emotion beyond loosely controlled anger.

Trenbolone costs more than physical sides like acne. It will deeply affect your psyche.
Sold! Makes me want to run it!
 
Hyde

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Sold! Makes me want to run it!
Lol might as well pin tren ace; Tvar was just legal and affordable enough so I figured it was the best way to get my feet wet with tren. I knew it should be tren on paper, but I was still surprised when I had all the sides and effects
 
Matthersby

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Lol might as well pin tren ace; Tvar was just legal and affordable enough so I figured it was the best way to get my feet wet with tren. I knew it should be tren on paper, but I was still surprised when I had all the sides and effects
I hate not having control over anger and emotions, it’s why I’ve run most everything but tren just the once. I will be running it when I compete in a year, but I can’t justify it any other time. Plenty of compounds give me strength and cuts. Nothing beats it of course, but it’s like a nuke, you really shouldn’t use it unless you really need to.
 
Renew1

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I've never run an injectable, so I'm looking for the one thing that can screw me up more than any other!
 
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Disturb

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I like clowning as much as the next guy but constructive feedback would be great. If you all think tren is far too powerful, I can appreciate that, but please follow mathersby and suggest an alternative
 
DemntedCowboy

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I like clowning as much as the next guy but constructive feedback would be great. If you all think tren is far too powerful, I can appreciate that, but please follow mathersby and suggest an alternative
I think most of us did. TEST ONLY for a first cycle.
 

jmero2

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You want to start off with a bang, Test @ 500/week - Oral Winnie @50-60/day.
For me, damn near same results and with waaaay less sides. It won’t transform you like Tren will, but dial in your diet good and you’ll look amazing by week 6
My first cycle right there! Still to this day winnie and test are king.. I may sprinkle in halodrol or epistane in place of winnie but most of the time it's test/winnie.
 
Renew1

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That was the point of my post. Look, none of us are stupid here. You can read just as easy as we can write. We have this same exact conveesation way too often. And each one is logged for your reading pleasure. Why would you think you are somehow different from all of the other newbs that we stressed DON'T RUN TREN FOR FIRST INJECTABLE CYLCE?

You felt achy from Winny? That is nothing compared to what you could feel like.
Test IM.
Winny, Epistane, or even something like hdrol moderately high. The choices are endless. And these are all great compounds.
 

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I think most of us did. TEST ONLY for a first cycle.
OK. But I've ran dermacrine and 4-andro before. Obviously that's not the same as running say, 500mg/week of test, but it's basically the same compound in the end. I'll look to see if there is any specific difference as obviously 500mg test is much more than I would get on either compound.

That was the point of my post. Look, none of us are stupid here. You can read just as easy as we can write. We have this same exact conveesation way too often. And each one is logged for your reading pleasure. Why would you think you are somehow different from all of the other newbs that we stressed DON'T RUN TREN FOR FIRST INJECTABLE CYLCE?
Well a couple reasons, as I've noted. Not to mention I've even seen suggestions for things like tren/trest for early cycles or noting how they did it as an early cycle and made it seem like others should follow suit. Like I said before, people talk about how you only get one first cycle, so make it count.

I guess I keep reading contradictory information; some people say "**** it go big or go home", others say "slow and stead wins the race". You ask what the difference is; its that for as many people who will say not run it, you will have the same amount that do.

You felt achy from Winny? That is nothing compared to what you could feel like.
Test IM.
Winny, Epistane, or even something like hdrol moderately high. The choices are endless. And these are all great compounds.
I appreciate the suggestions, but ive ran 2 of the 3 you suggested. Good results with both, and I'll have a look at hdrol, but I've looked into quite a few compounds and compared potential sides/gains. If I was looking to bulk then I'd be looking at something different, but with my goal being more of a recomp (and yes I understand that diet has a larger effect on this), a lot of the more wet and mass building compounds I ruled out.
 

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I think the whole "you only get 1 first cycle so make it count" thing is mostly subjective.

Beyond that, if there is any truth to it, it would be because your androgen receptors havent experienced exogenous/supraphysialogical hormones yet and might respond a little better the first time. If youve already ran some phs then that boat has already set sail bro.

Id suggest you forget about that saying. Its dumb. Looking goods great bit health should come first.

Ive ran a few ph cycles myself and am getting ready to do my first pin cycle beyobd my trt treatment and im personally going to go with test and win or epi as well.
 
Chados

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Why do all these newbies wanna use tren right out the gate???

OP, save the tren for a very important competition or goal later in your future. It’s not a free ride - I loved oral Trenavar. Crazy strength, drive, libido. And I broke up with my gf of 4 years, moved out, demanded a raise at work, and just generally lost most all empathy or emotion beyond loosely controlled anger.

Trenbolone costs more than physical sides like acne. It will deeply affect your psyche.
People think it's some magic thing.. It's actually quite a hard compound to understand.. Why am I not adding weight? Why am I feeling like a 7 year old girl? Why do I think my girlfriend is cheating?

Tren is not a steroid it's something else.. Obviously dosing is the key here but some people are just to sensitive regardless.

Whenever these people actually feel what some of us felt they either never touch tren again or they drop the dosage a lot.. You live and you learn.

300 is to me a quite safe dose but I think 200 is where you want to be on a first tren run.
 
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Dude thats only on the oral. For real...on tren E 400 a week...i was laying in bed with complete insomnia for days...beet red...sweating...with a painful erection...crying...my emotions could have had me comitted. Thats real talk...it screwed me up so bad...and im a big mother trucker who has taken gear for damn near 2 decades. I thought i was billy bad ass till a met that beast.
I strongly believe 400 is the magic spot for sides for most people. That and higher and you get (all) the sides you mentioned. At 200 I got nothing though.
 
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You want to start off with a bang, Test @ 500/week - Oral Winnie @50-60/day.
For me, damn near same results and with waaaay less sides. It won’t transform you like Tren will, but dial in your diet good and you’ll look amazing by week 6
Honestly if you don't bulk on tren and you take say 200mg I think winstrol beats it. The time tren shines is when you build on it cause then you look like a freak, when you undereat or maintenance it doesn't really come close to a bulking scenario.

I always suggest primo for a cut because it's not only more efficient than tren but also comes with far less sides even at higher dose. Optimal would be to stack both but were trying to survive here ey?
 
booneman77

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Tren is/was designed for livestock, not humans... that should be enough of a warning to anyone who thinks they should run it first haha
 
Hyde

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I like clowning as much as the next guy but constructive feedback would be great. If you all think tren is far too powerful, I can appreciate that, but please follow mathersby and suggest an alternative
We did, brother.

Test only, or with any of a slew of dry orals. Winstrol gets the crowd favorite, but Var is a great option, or low dose Sdrol, or Msten, or DMZ (I have recomped all 3 times I’ve used DMZ, it is a great partitioner).

Primo is the safest injectable you could stack w test, but even a topical like Androhard (estered Androsterone & EpiAndro) will definitely promote a harder dryer look (its like $60 for a bottle that will last 10+ weeks at 6 pumps/day).

Test kicked with winnie, then add Androhard for the rest of the cycle. There you go. If you don’t wanna do a TD, use Var last 6 weeks at a moderate dose.
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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I'm 5'10 230 ~16%body fat. 29 Yo. Lifting off and on since a teenager but have been very consistent the past 4 years.

I've ran 1/4/epi a few times, dermacrine/epistane, winstrol, and there was one more that was my first cycle but idr what it was.

Also, I think part of some of the "newbie fascination" with tren is in part the forum bros. I read about about guys my age run tren and their results are awesome. And I'll read stuff like "you only get one first cycle so make it count" etc, so if I'm gonna make it count I'm gonna go big. I like winstrol but even joint supps and fish oil it raped my joints. Really not looking for thst again.

All that said, if I wouldn't be running tren/trest, what compound do you guys suggest that would have a similar(though obviously weaker) leaning/recomp effect while have similar strength gains?
When it comes to your endocrine system the American "go big or go home" on your first cycle theory is nutz.

As someone else mentioned drugs are your Ace card, you want to go up the dose-strength of compound route slowly... As you build tolerance slower and get more gains. REMEMBER Minumum Effective Dose.

Why not Test and say NPP or I just got some DHB (1-Test Cyp) not liver toxic and won't give you "eyes of the bull". I just ran a Tren Ace cycle 200mg weekly, I drove like a mad man and by 3rd-4th week in was losing temper with loved ones... Need Ativan and meditation. F*ck if I run Tren A again I'm giving my wife my keys and taking Lyft to work and use grocery delivery (don't want to kill some slow ass mofo at Walmart, got little ones to stick around for).

On the plus side, strength, vascularity, and confidence improve, helps fat loss too. Killed my appetite, so had to add EQ in to fix. Yet the psychological sides and liver toxicity are pretty harsh...
 

Disturb

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Test only or test deca 300/400
I considered deca but decided it would be better for a bulk.

Honestly if you don't bulk on tren and you take say 200mg I think winstrol beats it. The time tren shines is when you build on it cause then you look like a freak, when you undereat or maintenance it doesn't really come close to a bulking scenario.

I always suggest primo for a cut because it's not only more efficient than tren but also comes with far less sides even at higher dose. Optimal would be to stack both but were trying to survive here ey?
More efficient than tren? Do tell. Im not super familiar with primo but I don't remember seeing it as an anchor or cornerstone of someones cycle, more like icing on the cake.

We did, brother.

Test only, or with any of a slew of dry orals. Winstrol gets the crowd favorite, but Var is a great option, or low dose Sdrol, or Msten, or DMZ (I have recomped all 3 times I’ve used DMZ, it is a great partitioner).

Primo is the safest injectable you could stack w test, but even a topical like Androhard (estered Androsterone & EpiAndro) will definitely promote a harder dryer look (its like $60 for a bottle that will last 10+ weeks at 6 pumps/day).

Test kicked with winnie, then add Androhard for the rest of the cycle. There you go. If you don’t wanna do a TD, use Var last 6 weeks at a moderate dose.
What would be the difference than between Androhard and Test? The end goal there is test as those are both used as bases, so wouldn't I just be better off with test, or more test?

I honesty thought about Including anavar at the last 4 weeks of this cycle to shine/polish me up real nice like. Only problem is that it's expensive, which isn't really as much of a problem as much as the fact that it is likely to be expensive winstrol lol.

When it comes to your endocrine system the American "go big or go home" on your first cycle theory is nutz.

As someone else mentioned drugs are your Ace card, you want to go up the dose-strength of compound route slowly... As you build tolerance slower and get more gains. REMEMBER Minumum Effective Dose.

Why not Test and say NPP or I just got some DHB (1-Test Cyp) not liver toxic and won't give you "eyes of the bull". I just ran a Tren Ace cycle 200mg weekly, I drove like a mad man and by 3rd-4th week in was losing temper with loved ones... Need Ativan and meditation. F*ck if I run Tren A again I'm giving my wife my keys and taking Lyft to work and use grocery delivery (don't want to kill some slow ass mofo at Walmart, got little ones to stick around for).

On the plus side, strength, vascularity, and confidence improve, helps fat loss too. Killed my appetite, so had to add EQ in to fix. Yet the psychological sides and liver toxicity are pretty harsh...
Im not familiar with 1-test to be honest but I have looked at running Test/NPP/Mast as that seems good but then I didn't really want to run 3 compounds at once. Test/NPP could be good though. Only other thing Is I think I remember reading dosages fairly high on NPP; like between 600mg - 1gm /week. That was also a bit off putting.
 
Chados

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I considered deca but decided it would be better for a bulk.



More efficient than tren? Do tell. Im not super familiar with primo but I don't remember seeing it as an anchor or cornerstone of someones cycle, more like icing on the cake.



What would be the difference than between Androhard and Test? The end goal there is test as those are both used as bases, so wouldn't I just be better off with test, or more test?

I honesty thought about Including anavar at the last 4 weeks of this cycle to shine/polish me up real nice like. Only problem is that it's expensive, which isn't really as much of a problem as much as the fact that it is likely to be expensive winstrol lol.


Im not familiar with 1-test to be honest but I have looked at running Test/NPP/Mast as that seems good but then I didn't really want to run 3 compounds at once. Test/NPP could be good though. Only other thing Is I think I remember reading dosages fairly high on NPP; like between 600mg - 1gm /week. That was also a bit off putting.
Primo is more efficient at keeping muscle during a cut. Tren eats food up meaning you'll have to eat more making a cut harder.. Obviously both works its just stressful for the body and a bit disappointing cause when you bulk on tren you literally turn in to a monster but under eating doesn't do very much and it feels like running almost anything else. Sure 600 would probably still make a difference but that's an extremely high dose for a first run and I doubt you'll make it side free even at 400. It's not worth the sides, not with tren trust me on this
 
Renew1

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OK. But I've ran dermacrine and 4-andro before. Obviously that's not the same as running say, 500mg/week of test, but it's basically the same compound in the end. I'll look to see if there is any specific difference as obviously 500mg test is much more than I would get on either compound.


Well a couple reasons, as I've noted. Not to mention I've even seen suggestions for things like tren/trest for early cycles or noting how they did it as an early cycle and made it seem like others should follow suit. Like I said before, people talk about how you only get one first cycle, so make it count.

I guess I keep reading contradictory information; some people say "**** it go big or go home", others say "slow and stead wins the race". You ask what the difference is; its that for as many people who will say not run it, you will have the same amount that do.



I appreciate the suggestions, but ive ran 2 of the 3 you suggested. Good results with both, and I'll have a look at hdrol, but I've looked into quite a few compounds and compared potential sides/gains. If I was looking to bulk then I'd be looking at something different, but with my goal being more of a recomp (and yes I understand that diet has a larger effect on this), a lot of the more wet and mass building compounds I ruled out.
4 Andro and Dermacrine is not the same as running IM Test.
You'll have people recommend things, both good and bad. Opinions differ.

But here, today, what I can tell you for sure is that I see a group of solid guys on here (both practical experience and research-wise) who are giving you very solid advice. (Heck 6 of these guys here represent combined experience of probably 100 years!).
The value of that can't be overstated.
 
Hyde

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Disturb you need to do some more research. Forget the thought process of “this is a test base and so is 4dhea so they’re all the same”. They aren’t. If they were, guys wouldn’t bother to pin Trest Ace when they could rub some Dermacrine on and get jacked AF. Even a compound’s delivery method or ester changes the effects to a degree.

Androsterone and Epiandrosterone are very androgenic, similar to Masteron - they primarily carry DHT functions. Libido, energy, drive, hardening, strength, fat-burning. You could pin Masteron for a similar effect, but the Androhard gel is a great value for someone not getting stage ready trying to save some coin.
 

Disturb

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Primo is more efficient at keeping muscle during a cut. Tren eats food up meaning you'll have to eat more making a cut harder.. Obviously both works its just stressful for the body and a bit disappointing cause when you bulk on tren you literally turn in to a monster but under eating doesn't do very much and it feels like running almost anything else. Sure 600 would probably still make a difference but that's an extremely high dose for a first run and I doubt you'll make it side free even at 400. It's not worth the sides, not with tren trust me on this
I was talking about primo for the 600-1gm range. My starting dose of tren was gonna be 300gm/wk.
4 Andro and Dermacrine is not the same as running IM Test.
You'll have people recommend things, both good and bad. Opinions differ.

But here, today, what I can tell you for sure is that I see a group of solid guys on here (both practical experience and research-wise) who are giving you very solid advice. (Heck 6 of these guys here represent combined experience of probably 100 years!).
The value of that can't be overstated.
Disturb you need to do some more research. Forget the thought process of “this is a test base and so is 4dhea so they’re all the same”. They aren’t. If they were, guys wouldn’t bother to pin Trest Ace when they could rub some Dermacrine on and get jacked AF. Even a compound’s delivery method or ester changes the effects to a degree.

Androsterone and Epiandrosterone are very androgenic, similar to Masteron - they primarily carry DHT functions. Libido, energy, drive, hardening, strength, fat-burning. You could pin Masteron for a similar effect, but the Androhard gel is a great value for someone not getting stage ready trying to save some coin.
I wasn't trying to say that they were the same thing, what I meant was, their end goal is the same: increased test.

Also, why do people say, "bro do more research", as if asking questions and my thread here alone wasn't apart of my research lol
 
Renew1

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I was talking about primo for the 600-1gm range. My starting dose of tren was gonna be 300gm/wk.




I wasn't trying to say that they were the same thing, what I meant was, their end goal is the same: increased test.

Also, why do people say, "bro do more research", as if asking questions and my thread here alone wasn't apart of my research lol
Its obvious by your response that you believed that the effects should be the same. That's just not true.
Like was suggested, you need to forget what you think you know about some of the connections/similarities/ target of some of these compounds, and just focus on the individual effects of what each compound actually does. It will be less confusing.

He wasn't trying to be rude by saying that you needed to study more... just honest.
Some of what you think you know, you really don't.
Most people have been there at some point.
 
Chados

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I think primo at 600 and if you have to add tren go 300 as before.. Don't stretch the tren and get sides instead add something milder to it. Alternative is to Finnish with winstrol
 
Hyde

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I was talking about primo for the 600-1gm range. My starting dose of tren was gonna be 300gm/wk.




I wasn't trying to say that they were the same thing, what I meant was, their end goal is the same: increased test.

Also, why do people say, "bro do more research", as if asking questions and my thread here alone wasn't apart of my research lol
Because there are hundreds if not thousands of threads already asking for the same beginner advice already on this site alone. We aren’t snowflakes and most of that previously given advice still applies to your scenario.

It’s not wrong to make a thread and ask at all; I’m only asking you to try to have an open mind if you do.

Consider 4dhea - it DOES convert to test. AND a whole slew of other hormones. Do you have an infinite amount of enzymes necessary for that conversion? Of course not, nor can you predict the actual percentage of conversion to test specifically - something most people don’t consider when they try to take ever larger amounts of 4DHEA to get higher test levels. It sounds good on paper, but it doesn’t hold water in the real world.
 
Matthersby

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I considered deca but decided it would be better for a bulk.



More efficient than tren? Do tell. Im not super familiar with primo but I don't remember seeing it as an anchor or cornerstone of someones cycle, more like icing on the cake.



What would be the difference than between Androhard and Test? The end goal there is test as those are both used as bases, so wouldn't I just be better off with test, or more test?

I honesty thought about Including anavar at the last 4 weeks of this cycle to shine/polish me up real nice like. Only problem is that it's expensive, which isn't really as much of a problem as much as the fact that it is likely to be expensive winstrol lol.


Im not familiar with 1-test to be honest but I have looked at running Test/NPP/Mast as that seems good but then I didn't really want to run 3 compounds at once. Test/NPP could be good though. Only other thing Is I think I remember reading dosages fairly high on NPP; like between 600mg - 1gm /week. That was also a bit off putting.
Test / NPP was my next suggestion. Literally side effect free for me. Keep prami in hand and didn’t even need it at 550 NPP
 
Matthersby

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I considered deca but decided it would be better for a bulk.



More efficient than tren? Do tell. Im not super familiar with primo but I don't remember seeing it as an anchor or cornerstone of someones cycle, more like icing on the cake.



What would be the difference than between Androhard and Test? The end goal there is test as those are both used as bases, so wouldn't I just be better off with test, or more test?

I honesty thought about Including anavar at the last 4 weeks of this cycle to shine/polish me up real nice like. Only problem is that it's expensive, which isn't really as much of a problem as much as the fact that it is likely to be expensive winstrol lol.


Im not familiar with 1-test to be honest but I have looked at running Test/NPP/Mast as that seems good but then I didn't really want to run 3 compounds at once. Test/NPP could be good though. Only other thing Is I think I remember reading dosages fairly high on NPP; like between 600mg - 1gm /week. That was also a bit off putting.
Not knocking at all, but the source you’ve mentioned running multiple injectables first cycle simply for receptor responsiveness and running 600 and up of NPP; is just plain bad advice. I hope it wasn’t here on AM(where harm reduction and progressive thinking are paramount)

I’ve ran just about everything besides halodrol, anadrol, pheraplex, primo, EQ and maybe 1 or 2 drugs. I’ve used Trest more than anyone I’ve ever heard of on any board.
This last cycle I ran was my 25th and I didn’t even consider going over 600npp.

Start with test, and maaaaaaybe run an oral or a easy to manage injectable.
 

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