First ever PH cycle (HiTech 1-AD) - help with PCT please

[ThePersian]

Hi guys, long first post for a new guy, but I want to keep it detailed. Two weekends ago I decided to do a PH cycle for the first time ever. I’ve been lifting seriously since about 2010 (currently lift 4-5 days/week) while monitoring diet/macros (currently eating ~maintanence), and now being 29, I figured I would give this a try. My realistic goal for the first cycle is not to put a ton of mass on, but rather just to see how I respond during & after a 4-week cycle to a mild PH before considering another one in the future. Expectations are obviously low, as they should be.

I spent a few days doing the research on various websites/forums, looking into good beginner PH’s, dosing, etc. Before ordering, I went and got a blood test done (CBC, lipids, metabolic panel, urinalysis…should have done testosterone) as recommended by nearly everyone. Everything was good and in range. So, here’s what I ordered:

PH: 1-AD by Hi-Tech Pharma, which is 75mg 1-Andro decanoate + 50mg laxogenin (2 per day, 1 at ~12pm and ~9pm). Started this on July 21, 2016. Nothing else.

Cycle Support: Cycle Armor by Lecheek Nutrition (2 per day, 1 capsule taken together with each 1-AD). There are definitely better options out there, and I'm open to suggestions.

PCT: SUP3R PCT by Olympus Labs (probably will do 5 tabs, 2x a day unless 10, 1x day is suggested)
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After doing more research once my orders arrived, I realized that I missed one important thing that I keep seeing on the forum and other places– SERM, which I now realize is very important, especially when I go through threads here and see the dosages/stacks that people are on.

Again, my goal for my very first cycle is just to see how I respond. I understand that my expectations should not be high, and that’s perfectly fine for my first run. If I do another, it won’t be until later this year or early next year. So, right now I would be taking in 150mg 1-Andro (minus a bit due to the decanoate contributing to the 75mg mass in each tablet), and I definitely realize that’s at least half of what most people dose it at.

So my question: Since I intend to keep my 1-AD dose low for my first cycle, would the SUP3R PCT by itself suffice as my only PCT for 4 weeks, or is there no debating that a SERM is required? I have seen some other websites saying that an OTC PCT is fine for only 1-andro at low doses, but otherwise SERM is mandatory. Also, is there some sort of “mg threshold” for 1-andro where a SERM like Nolva is absolutely required? If I’m being a complete idiot and should just stop and switch over to PCT or something similar now, then please tell me. Thanks!

 

[AntM1564]

1 AD is very mild. You will see mixed responses on whether or not you need a SERM with it. I ran it, logged it on here, when it first came out. I would opt for a SERM, always. What may be mild for one may not be mild for you. An OTC product can be beneficial, but should not be the foundation of PCT, that should be a SERM.

My PCT was a SERM, DAA and AlphaMax XT. I recovered nicely, backed by blood work. Don't listen to people that say they used an OTC and they feel fine. The real results are in the blood work. Throughout PCT, my lifts were still going up and I kept on most of the weight from the cycle. I would start the SERM right away and introduce AlphaMax XT in the second week. Some start their OTC product right away, but you may not need to due to the SERM. AlphaMax XT is very similar to Super PCT as they are both all in on products that increase free test, contain an AI and control estrogen.

 

[ThePersian]

Appreciate the reply. Yeah, I have definitely seen mixed reviews, with those strongly advocating a SERM taking it with a much higher dose than what I intended, whereas those saying OTC PCT would be sufficient at a low dose due to the mildness of the PH.

Is it worth speaking to an endocrinologist about 1-DHEA and getting their opinion about PCT, or would they just not care about you since you only intend to use it for anabolic purposes? I was actually considering making an appointment with one since I just started the 1-AD last Thursday.

 

[tysons93]

From what ive read the majority of ppl say that u dont need a serm untill you get to around 600mg + but im not a doctor idk. In my amateur opinion the dose your running at for only 4 weeks u shouldnt need one but yea u should ask an endocrinologist if u can

 

[ThePersian]

From what ive read the majority of ppl say that u dont need a serm untill you get to around 600mg + but im not a doctor idk. In my amateur opinion the dose your running at for only 4 weeks u shouldnt need one but yea u should ask an endocrinologist if u can

Yeah, I've noticed the same, ~600mg and no questions about SERMs. As a first time user, I'm interesting in knowing if this low dose would still shut down my own body's production of testosterone over the course of 4 weeks, or if it happens regardless of how much/little you take. I would hope that the massive ingredient profile of Olympus Labs' SUP3R PCT would do a good job especially with a full 3.1g of D-AA in there. I'll definitely admit, I could have done some more research beyond what I had just taken note off over a few days of reading.

 

[rascal14]

You can buy a SERM for cheaper than your entire cycle. I personally wouldn't run any cycle no matter how mild without some form of a PCT with a SERM.

 

[DirtyWilly]

Might get a little pooped on for this, but I don't believe in SERMs for mild PHs.

Just seems like using a bazooka to go after a mosquito when your body already has all of the tools it needs to make a quick, potentially better balanced recovery. Side effects from low-T are serious, there's bound to be fallout in some individual who didn't use a SERM so don't let me mislead anyone.

Just not a fan of SERMs in general, the idea of putting selective estrogen in my body doesn't sit well with me. Guess my thinking is if the compound wasn't enough to make dramatic gains, do you really need a SERM?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Id base my decision on post-cycle bloods. Depending on how great my suppression was, I may either low dose a SERM, or standard dose.

Id find a low dose SERM feasible because, even if the suppression was not too severe, I still have little idea how fast I may recover naturally.

PCT is not just about "maxing out test", but getting sh1t up and running ASAP.

 

[DirtyWilly]

Right on, that's kinda what I found through my blood work.

Took a mild PH for 7 weeks, total T went from 600 to 250, considered it just enough to not need a SERM and went the PCT only route. Bit of a gamble, but I'm back to 650 after 3 months.

 

[rascal14]

$25-30 for Clomid and Nolva as PCT > $65 blood work.

You'll need blood work after either one no matter what, so may as well use the SERM, get a better chance of recovery, and save money at the same time.

 

[DirtyWilly]

Haha, can't argue with that.

 

[AntM1564]

It blows my mind that people skip on SERMS. Like mentioned, they are probably one of the cheapest component of the cycle and is the most important in regards to health and maybe even maintaining the results. Also, a single purchase is usually good for two or two and a half cycles.

 

[Dma378]

Right on, that's kinda what I found through my blood work.

Took a mild PH for 7 weeks, total T went from 600 to 250, considered it just enough to not need a SERM and went the PCT only route. Bit of a gamble, but I'm back to 650 after 3 months.

Don't forget to mention where your gains went...

 

[Dma378]

Might get a little pooped on for this, but I don't believe in SERMs for mild PHs.

Just seems like using a bazooka to go after a mosquito when your body already has all of the tools it needs to make a quick, potentially better balanced recovery. Side effects from low-T are serious, there's bound to be fallout in some individual who didn't use a SERM so don't let me mislead anyone.

Just not a fan of SERMs in general, the idea of putting selective estrogen in my body doesn't sit well with me. Guess my thinking is if the compound wasn't enough to make dramatic gains, do you really need a SERM?

 

[DirtyWilly]

PRE, END of cycle, and POST PCT. Was closer to $220 including the lipids. Great learning experience, not something I'd have to do every time now that I have a base.

Gains were maintained and I even pushed though plateaus well after PCT weighing less. Problem now is I've lost so much weight I can't hang onto anything. I'm down another 10lbs (20lbs total) since the end of the cycle and it's showing in my lifts. Look great, feel great, probably in the teens for body fat but that dream of 405 on bench is fading away. I gladly accept the former.

 

[DirtyWilly]

That's exactly why I used the word believe.

Can you honestly explain the science behind putting an approved cancer treatment selective estrogen compound into your body? I don't even think the white coats that invented the stuff can. I'll take the blood work for $220 Alex.

 

[rascal14]

Clomid is regularly prescribed to increase testosterone in males.

 

[Dma378]

Clomid is regularly prescribed to increase testosterone in males.

That was easy

 

[unreal89]

You can buy a SERM for cheaper than your entire cycle. I personally wouldn't run any cycle no matter how mild without some form of a PCT with a SERM.

^^ this.

 

[Dma378]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16422830

A more detailed study:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/854351

I mean sure, want to wait 3 months and do it the slow natural way, great. But why would you even run a cycle of hormones if a SERM threatens you in some way? Just illogical. Whatever ph you consider mild, is still certainly loaded with more sides and symptoms than Clomid.