First cycle

Jumantz13

New member
Awards
0
Hello everyone I am currently 21 years old 190 lbs and around 18-20% body fat. I have been thinking about starting my first cycle listed in the picture below. I am just wondering what everyone thinks of it and if anyone could give some advice? Thank you all. I have been training for around 2 years 4 months. But I have always been active and played sports. What do y’all think?
 

Attachments

match

match

Active member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
You're gonna get some good advice here, and it looks like you've got a cycle planned out with at least some thought, which tells me that you've done some homework and probably already made your purchases and will go ahead with this cycle regardless of the advice you hear.

So, I'll let the guys with the real AAS experience give their advice about the cycle. My contribution will be to ask you some questions which will save those guys some time because they'll be able to give you better advice since they'll have more information.

1. What are your goals with this cycle?
2. You stated you've been training for 2y 4m, do you track every workout (exercise, weight, reps, sets)?
3. How often do you lift?
4. How often do you do cardio?
5. How good is your diet, and do you track your macros?
7. What is your plan for your diet during the cycle to help you achieve your goals?
8. Do you drink alcohol, if so how often?
9. Do you get enough sleep each night?
10. Have you gotten precycle bloodwork done, if so it would be good to post the results here.

My personal opinion is: you probably still have a LOT of gains that you could make naturally and save a cycle for later (perhaps never even needing to do one). You can get a ton of amazing advice here to improve your training, diet, and lifestyle that can get you amazing results (without having to deal with hormonal fluctuations and a bunch of new variables that you'll have to keep track of and worry about).

You're young. You probably still have a ton of natural testosterone flowing through your veins, and perhaps you've barely even tapped into your natural resources and utilized what you've already got. You sound like you've got drive and motivation, you should focus on getting the most out of your diet, training and rest regimens right now.

Either way, I'll check in on this and offer encouragement and advice where I can (and when you do get advice from guys that have posted here 1k or 10k times, give them your full attention and be open to having your mind changed).
 

natureman4

New member
Awards
0
You're gonna get some good advice here, and it looks like you've got a cycle planned out with at least some thought, which tells me that you've done some homework and probably already made your purchases and will go ahead with this cycle regardless of the advice you hear.

So, I'll let the guys with the real AAS experience give their advice about the cycle. My contribution will be to ask you some questions which will save those guys some time because they'll be able to give you better advice since they'll have more information.

1. What are your goals with this cycle?
2. You stated you've been training for 2y 4m, do you track every workout (exercise, weight, reps, sets)?
3. How often do you lift?
4. How often do you do cardio?
5. How good is your diet, and do you track your macros?
7. What is your plan for your diet during the cycle to help you achieve your goals?
8. Do you drink alcohol, if so how often?
9. Do you get enough sleep each night?
10. Have you gotten precycle bloodwork done, if so it would be good to post the results here.

My personal opinion is: you probably still have a LOT of gains that you could make naturally and save a cycle for later (perhaps never even needing to do one). You can get a ton of amazing advice here to improve your training, diet, and lifestyle that can get you amazing results (without having to deal with hormonal fluctuations and a bunch of new variables that you'll have to keep track of and worry about).

You're young. You probably still have a ton of natural testosterone flowing through your veins, and perhaps you've barely even tapped into your natural resources and utilized what you've already got. You sound like you've got drive and motivation, you should focus on getting the most out of your diet, training and rest regimens right now.

Either way, I'll check in on this and offer encouragement and advice where I can (and when you do get advice from guys that have posted here 1k or 10k times, give them your full attention and be open to having your mind changed).
I agree with Match's advice, and will also defer to guys who are more experienced than I am. Answering the questions posed above will help us understand what may be best for you, especially *why* you want to do a cycle at this time, but my instinct is you're probably still too young to be messing with your HPTA axis and are not close to your genetic potential.
 

Jumantz

New member
Awards
0
You're gonna get some good advice here, and it looks like you've got a cycle planned out with at least some thought, which tells me that you've done some homework and probably already made your purchases and will go ahead with this cycle regardless of the advice you hear.

So, I'll let the guys with the real AAS experience give their advice about the cycle. My contribution will be to ask you some questions which will save those guys some time because they'll be able to give you better advice since they'll have more information.

1. What are your goals with this cycle?
2. You stated you've been training for 2y 4m, do you track every workout (exercise, weight, reps, sets)?
3. How often do you lift?
4. How often do you do cardio?
5. How good is your diet, and do you track your macros?
7. What is your plan for your diet during the cycle to help you achieve your goals?
8. Do you drink alcohol, if so how often?
9. Do you get enough sleep each night?
10. Have you gotten precycle bloodwork done, if so it would be good to post the results here.

My personal opinion is: you probably still have a LOT of gains that you could make naturally and save a cycle for later (perhaps never even needing to do one). You can get a ton of amazing advice here to improve your training, diet, and lifestyle that can get you amazing results (without having to deal with hormonal fluctuations and a bunch of new variables that you'll have to keep track of and worry about).

You're young. You probably still have a ton of natural testosterone flowing through your veins, and perhaps you've barely even tapped into your natural resources and utilized what you've already got. You sound like you've got drive and motivation, you should focus on getting the most out of your diet, training and rest regimens right now.

Either way, I'll check in on this and offer encouragement and advice where I can (and when you do get advice from guys that have posted here 1k or 10k times, give them your full attention and be open to having your mind changed).
You're gonna get some good advice here, and it looks like you've got a cycle planned out with at least some thought, which tells me that you've done some homework and probably already made your purchases and will go ahead with this cycle regardless of the advice you hear.

So, I'll let the guys with the real AAS experience give their advice about the cycle. My contribution will be to ask you some questions which will save those guys some time because they'll be able to give you better advice since they'll have more information.

1. What are your goals with this cycle?
2. You stated you've been training for 2y 4m, do you track every workout (exercise, weight, reps, sets)?
3. How often do you lift?
4. How often do you do cardio?
5. How good is your diet, and do you track your macros?
7. What is your plan for your diet during the cycle to help you achieve your goals?
8. Do you drink alcohol, if so how often?
9. Do you get enough sleep each night?
10. Have you gotten precycle bloodwork done, if so it would be good to post the results here.

My personal opinion is: you probably still have a LOT of gains that you could make naturally and save a cycle for later (perhaps never even needing to do one). You can get a ton of amazing advice here to improve your training, diet, and lifestyle that can get you amazing results (without having to deal with hormonal fluctuations and a bunch of new variables that you'll have to keep track of and worry about).

You're young. You probably still have a ton of natural testosterone flowing through your veins, and perhaps you've barely even tapped into your natural resources and utilized what you've already got. You sound like you've got drive and motivation, you should focus on getting the most out of your diet, training and rest regimens right now.

Either way, I'll check in on this and offer encouragement and advice where I can (and when you do get advice from guys that have posted here 1k or 10k times, give them your full attention and be open to having your mind changed).
9. I did get precycle blood work done and my test was 560 ng/dL
8. Sleep most of the time I am pretty good on. Typically 8-9 hours of sleep.
7. I do drink alcohol but not too often maybe once every two weeks.
6. My plan for my diet is to eat around 180-200 G protein and around 3500 cals but it’s all still under work.
5. My diet could use some work without a doubt. Between being in school, work, and working out it seems to be a struggle. That part I am still trying to figure out.
4. I don’t do cardio very often. Maybe once a week.
3. Currently I am lifting 6 times a week push,pull,legs, rest, push, pull, legs.
2. I do track all my workouts and have two full notebooks so far.
1. My goals are to gain size but also lean out a little.
 
Renew1

Renew1

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
9. I did get precycle blood work done and my test was 560 ng/dL
8. Sleep most of the time I am pretty good on. Typically 8-9 hours of sleep.
7. I do drink alcohol but not too often maybe once every two weeks.
6. My plan for my diet is to eat around 180-200 G protein and around 3500 cals but it’s all still under work.
5. My diet could use some work without a doubt. Between being in school, work, and working out it seems to be a struggle. That part I am still trying to figure out.
4. I don’t do cardio very often. Maybe once a week.
3. Currently I am lifting 6 times a week push,pull,legs, rest, push, pull, legs.
2. I do track all my workouts and have two full notebooks so far.
1. My goals are to gain size but also lean out a little.
Why are you using 2 different accounts??
 
match

match

Active member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
Okay, that info gives us a lot to work with.

Your training regimen sounds like it's good, perhaps too much but that really depends on your frequency. As long as you're able to recover and you're not seeing your lifts go down over time (or getting joint problems, sprains, etc), you're probably doing something that can work. There's always room for improvement, but you can dive deeper into that as you progress and learn over time.

Your diet is going to be the deciding factor here, and not having that really dialed in, means you're likely going to not get nearly the gains from your training that you could be (with, or without gear).

You gotta get that sorted out and you have to give yourself time to not just start a new diet, but get in the habit of tracking it properly (along with your weight). If you're missing meals, or eating too much or too little, you're not setting yourself up for success. The guys who discuss your cycle will most likely encourage you to fix your diet before you even consider using the gear. The alcohol is only going to go against your progress, but you gotta decide how serious you are about your physique/strength/athletic goals. If your physique is more important than partying and getting wasted/buzzed, then your actions should reflect that. If alcohol is more important than your training/diet, then you really shouldn't use any gear.

I also recommend that, once you get your diet figured out (and make the decision about alcohol), you decide if you want to focus on building muscle or losing fat. You can waste a lot of time trying to do both at once (called recomping, which is sub-optimal). There's a great youtube channel called Renaissance Periodization that I highly recommend you check out. They've got some great lectures on diet and bulking/cutting plans.

That's all I've got for now. I'm sure others will chime in soon enough with more advice.
 
gphagan1

gphagan1

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I agree with Match on all of the factors he pointed out.
I can guarantee you that at your age you haven’t reached your full natural potential. Getting your diet and training in order are the number one factor in building your physique, not the anabolics. The problem with starting anabolics so young is that it will definitely effect your HPTA and sometimes guys start too young and end up on TRT, not all but some, which is a lifetime decision. But none of us can truly say how your system will be affected.
I know your training 6 days a week push, pull, legs. Could you give some more details on your actual workouts ( Program you may be following, exercises, weights, rep range, are you progressively increasing lifts etc.)? We could probably start there with advice and then look at diet.
As far as build muscle and lose fat, that’s the typical recomp. that many desire. That is absolutely not the best mindset when just starting, ( less than 5 years experience) and so young. I would say look at a cut if you are 18%-20%, and after dropping some fat consider a clean bulk. Really the only person that should be thinking recomp. is when you’ve reached the size and body fat level you want, and your maintaining that weight while slowly dropping a little more fat. Your years away from that.
Let us help with your work out and diet and maybe help you dial some things in.
Now as far as the cycle you’ve laid out….it definitely looks like you’ve done your research.
I’ll go ahead and offer some advice just in case you don’t want to listen to the other advice and you go ahead anyway.
Your layout looks pretty good, but I would adjust a couple of things.
I always recommend to start with Testosterone only for a first cycle, 12 weeks, that way you can see how Test affects you. You could start at 400-500 a week and that’s a good start.
I do like Tbol, but when and if you add orals it’s better to run them the last 4-6 weeks, because they can come with sides that you don’t want to deal with in the beginning of a cycle.
Your PCT looks pretty good and I see you know not to add the Ai unless you have high estrogen symptoms. So with those minor tweaks that’s really a fairly safe first cycle……
But again let us help you dial in training and diet, and you might be surprised what your body can accomplish over the next year. You are in that new gain territory, and this is the most optimal time in your life to build muscle naturally. Take advantage of that while you can.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I would diet down before you start your cycle, if you start trying to gain at your current bodyfat then your most likely going to add fat more then muscle. When bodyfat is high then typically insulin sensitivity is poor and that screws up your ability to properly transport nutrients, you store fat and all of these things in conjunction lead to increased side effects on cycle.

Ideally you want your bf super low at the beginning of a bulk, but for most of us 8-12% is a good starting point. Once you get over 15% and your abs are no longer visible it's time to pull the plug on the cycle.

Acne and gyno are usually the sides associated with higher bf.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
As far as the cycle you listed. I don't like it, definitely not terrible but not ideal for a first cycle.

Testosterone @300-400mg weeks 1-14
If you wanna use tbol save it for the end, weeks 12-17 use tbol, this will keep anabolics in your system while testosterone is clearing out and it will also make your cycle stronger at the end when the higher dose is actually needed, in the beginning of a cycle your dose is the lowest. If you Kickstart with a oral, now your cycle gets weaker after you discontinued the oral.

Start pct week 18
 
klbsa

klbsa

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
Do a quick 4 week low mg cycle of dbol (20-30mg a day…… Just make sure you have some AI products in case your nipples start getting sore….. Probably won’t but you never know.

my advice for every “first cycle” is the same for everyone. A strong fast acting steroid for 3-4 weeks.
 

Jumantz

New member
Awards
0
As far as the cycle you listed. I don't like it, definitely not terrible but not ideal for a first cycle.

Testosterone @300-400mg weeks 1-14
If you wanna use tbol save it for the end, weeks 12-17 use tbol, this will keep anabolics in your system while testosterone is clearing out and it will also make your cycle stronger at the end when the higher dose is actually needed, in the beginning of a cycle your dose is the lowest. If you Kickstart with a oral, now your cycle gets weaker after you discontinued the oral.

Start pct week 18
Would you recommend pinning one or two times a week?
As far as the cycle you listed. I don't like it, definitely not terrible but not ideal for a first cycle.

Testosterone @300-400mg weeks 1-14
If you wanna use tbol save it for the end, weeks 12-17 use tbol, this will keep anabolics in your system while testosterone is clearing out and it will also make your cycle stronger at the end when the higher dose is actually needed, in the beginning of a cycle your dose is the lowest. If you Kickstart with a oral, now your cycle gets weaker after you discontinued the oral.

Start pct week 18
Would you recommend pinning 200mg twice a week or 400mg once?
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Would you recommend pinning one or two times a week?

Would you recommend pinning 200mg twice a week or 400mg once?
As frequently as you can deal with. I use to pin 2x week and if I went over 300mg test I would get some high estrogen side effects. So I break it down to daily or every other day pins and no more estrogen problems.

Most people once a week is asking for problems, many people can handle twice a week but everybody does good with daily and every other day injection. Without being said nobody wants to pin daily on their first cycle you can probably get away with twice a week
 

Jumantz

New member
Awards
0
I agree with Match on all of the factors he pointed out.
I can guarantee you that at your age you haven’t reached your full natural potential. Getting your diet and training in order are the number one factor in building your physique, not the anabolics. The problem with starting anabolics so young is that it will definitely effect your HPTA and sometimes guys start too young and end up on TRT, not all but some, which is a lifetime decision. But none of us can truly say how your system will be affected.
I know your training 6 days a week push, pull, legs. Could you give some more details on your actual workouts ( Program you may be following, exercises, weights, rep range, are you progressively increasing lifts etc.)? We could probably start there with advice and then look at diet.
As far as build muscle and lose fat, that’s the typical recomp. that many desire. That is absolutely not the best mindset when just starting, ( less than 5 years experience) and so young. I would say look at a cut if you are 18%-20%, and after dropping some fat consider a clean bulk. Really the only person that should be thinking recomp. is when you’ve reached the size and body fat level you want, and your maintaining that weight while slowly dropping a little more fat. Your years away from that.
Let us help with your work out and diet and maybe help you dial some things in.
Now as far as the cycle you’ve laid out….it definitely looks like you’ve done your research.
I’ll go ahead and offer some advice just in case you don’t want to listen to the other advice and you go ahead anyway.
Your layout looks pretty good, but I would adjust a couple of things.
I always recommend to start with Testosterone only for a first cycle, 12 weeks, that way you can see how Test affects you. You could start at 400-500 a week and that’s a good start.
I do like Tbol, but when and if you add orals it’s better to run them the last 4-6 weeks, because they can come with sides that you don’t want to deal with in the beginning of a cycle.
Your PCT looks pretty good and I see you know not to add the Ai unless you have high estrogen symptoms. So with those minor tweaks that’s really a fairly safe first cycle……
But again let us help you dial in training and diet, and you might be surprised what your body can accomplish over the next year. You are in that new gain territory, and this is the most optimal time in your life to build muscle naturally. Take advantage of that while you can.
Question. So if I decide not to do this cycle. How long is test and t bol good for before it expires generally?
 

Jumantz

New member
Awards
0
I agree with Match on all of the factors he pointed out.
I can guarantee you that at your age you haven’t reached your full natural potential. Getting your diet and training in order are the number one factor in building your physique, not the anabolics. The problem with starting anabolics so young is that it will definitely effect your HPTA and sometimes guys start too young and end up on TRT, not all but some, which is a lifetime decision. But none of us can truly say how your system will be affected.
I know your training 6 days a week push, pull, legs. Could you give some more details on your actual workouts ( Program you may be following, exercises, weights, rep range, are you progressively increasing lifts etc.)? We could probably start there with advice and then look at diet.
As far as build muscle and lose fat, that’s the typical recomp. that many desire. That is absolutely not the best mindset when just starting, ( less than 5 years experience) and so young. I would say look at a cut if you are 18%-20%, and after dropping some fat consider a clean bulk. Really the only person that should be thinking recomp. is when you’ve reached the size and body fat level you want, and your maintaining that weight while slowly dropping a little more fat. Your years away from that.
Let us help with your work out and diet and maybe help you dial some things in.
Now as far as the cycle you’ve laid out….it definitely looks like you’ve done your research.
I’ll go ahead and offer some advice just in case you don’t want to listen to the other advice and you go ahead anyway.
Your layout looks pretty good, but I would adjust a couple of things.
I always recommend to start with Testosterone only for a first cycle, 12 weeks, that way you can see how Test affects you. You could start at 400-500 a week and that’s a good start.
I do like Tbol, but when and if you add orals it’s better to run them the last 4-6 weeks, because they can come with sides that you don’t want to deal with in the beginning of a cycle.
Your PCT looks pretty good and I see you know not to add the Ai unless you have high estrogen symptoms. So with those minor tweaks that’s really a fairly safe first cycle……
But again let us help you dial in training and diet, and you might be surprised what your body can accomplish over the next year. You are in that new gain territory, and this is the most optimal time in your life to build muscle naturally. Take advantage of that while you can.
So currently I am following a push pull legs program made by Tristan huseby (a popular bodybuilder) currently doing around 3-4 sets 8-12 reps on my exercises. I progressively increase weights or Atleast try to every week if I am hitting 12 reps. Typically I’ll do a core lift (bench,deadlift,squat) then follow with 2/3 axillarys then hit biceps/triceps 2/3 axillarys. I don’t ever really one rep max but I have been doing 275 on bench 3X3 then. 315 for 3 X 6 on deadlift and 315 for 3X3 on squat. Hope this helps!
 
match

match

Active member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
So currently I am following a push pull legs program made by Tristan huseby (a popular bodybuilder) currently doing around 3-4 sets 8-12 reps on my exercises. I progressively increase weights or Atleast try to every week if I am hitting 12 reps. Typically I’ll do a core lift (bench,deadlift,squat) then follow with 2/3 axillarys then hit biceps/triceps 2/3 axillarys. I don’t ever really one rep max but I have been doing 275 on bench 3X3 then. 315 for 3 X 6 on deadlift and 315 for 3X3 on squat. Hope this helps!
Sounds like you have a fine program that you're working.

You'll get much more from focusing your energy and time getting your diet dialed in than you will from anything else (including gear). IDK the shelf life of the gear you bought, I saw you asked about that earlier, I'm sure you'll get a response on that from someone who knows.

I recommend you set the gear aside for later (or never if you decide you don't need it) and put your focus on that diet. Even if you DID use gear, the guys here will all back me up on this: getting the diet right will help you get better gains than the gear will; plus you don't risk anything with your health and natural hormone levels either.

TLDR: Great diet without gear > Poor diet with gear.
 
match

match

Active member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
And believe me, I get the excitement of wanting to use that stuff that you researched (and bought) because you have these goals and aspirations and you think the gear can get you there. And maybe it can help, and maybe you won't get sides at all.

But if you don't get your diet right you will never reach your full genetic (or enhanced) potential.

Everyone you see around you that has the kind of physique that you're striving for has their diet in check (whether because they put the time and effort into it, or just by blind luck because of the environment they grew up in and the food choices that were made for them early in life).
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Hey bro I've been waiting to chime in because I knew my bros would tell you the same thing I would. You need to listen to every word @match is telling you. Right now I spend $1000 dollars a month on food. You best believe my diet is in check. Everyone asks me what am I on what am I taking blah blah blah and that's what I tell them $1000 a month on food. Yea I'm on gear obviously but think about that a 12 week deca/test/dbol cycle cost me around 500. Did your 16 week cycle cost you what you should be spending monthly on your diet. I know it's boring and your probably rolling your eyes but right now I would love to be at your age natty then at my age enhanced
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
You have a good base, keep training hard, and focus on cutting some bodyfat naturally right now until you have abs. This will take some time but it will teach you how to manipulate your nutrition for your goals (if you know how to successfully cut, you now have the plan to bulk by reversing it, essentially).

Once you get lean enough, you will be primed to grow actual muscle. If you lean down to 165, then take steroids and it takes you up to 185, you will be way more jacked than now at your current 190. Don’t focus on the scale, focus on the mirror.

I was similar age, size, bodyfat, lifting experience when I started AAS. I really wish I had waited a couple more years to learn more about training and diet so I could have gotten more out of the gear and not spun my wheels so much. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Don’t be so anxious to play your ace card, because once you start drugs you will need to keep taking them to continue progressing.

That oil will stay good for several years. The Tbol will stay good for a decade at least, assuming these are stored in the dark in climate control like a basement or air-conditioned closet. They aren’t going bad anytime soon. And don’t pin with a 22g; that’s a damn harpoon. Use those to draw the oil and switch on a fresh 25g for injection so you lessen scar tissue buildup.
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Just looked at my GP test 250 vial this morning...I got in August and it doesn't expire till 2027! Way longer than I thought. So you shoukd be good don't know about the tbol tho I'm guessing it's gotta be atleast a few years
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
Just looked at my GP test 250 vial this morning...I got in August and it doesn't expire till 2027! Way longer than I thought. So you shoukd be good don't know about the tbol tho I'm guessing it's gotta be atleast a few years
I have no factual proof or anything, but my understanding has been, that oral steroids can last and stay effective for a long time. Like decades, if stored properly.
 
Last edited:
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I have no factual proof or anything, but my understanding has been, that oral steroids can last and stay effective for a long time. Like decades, if stored properly.
Facts.

Ever seen a woman take 10mg of Superdrol daily that was manufactured over a decade ago? Swoll AF. Orals last forever when properly stored.
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
I
I have no factual proof or anything, but my understanding has been, that oral steroids can last and stay effective for a long time. Like decades, if stored properly.
I don't doubt you because I hs
Facts.

Ever seen a woman take 10mg of Superdrol daily that was manufactured over a decade ago? Swoll AF. Orals last forever when properly stored.
No but I wish I could 😍
 

Jumantz

New member
Awards
0
Thank you everyone. I have decided to hold off for now and focus on my diet and use my natural potential more. I went out today and bought a **** ton of meal prepping stuff. (Rice,chicken,fruit,veggies). I do have a few more questions. What should my macros look like if I am trying to lose some fat but keep some of my muscle (I understand you can’t keep it all when losing fat). Then also is a tbol only cycle pointless ?
 

Jumantz

New member
Awards
0
Thank you everyone. I have decided to hold off for now and focus on my diet and use my natural potential more. I went out today and bought a **** ton of meal prepping stuff. (Rice,chicken,fruit,veggies). I do have a few more questions. What should my macros look like if I am trying to lose some fat but keep some of my muscle (I understand you can’t keep it all when losing fat). Then also is a tbol only cycle pointless ?
I am happy with my size and strength. I would like to keep most of that but I would really like to shred off some fat and look more defined
 
ZLB70

ZLB70

Member
Awards
0
Thank you everyone. I have decided to hold off for now and focus on my diet and use my natural potential more. I went out today and bought a **** ton of meal prepping stuff. (Rice,chicken,fruit,veggies). I do have a few more questions. What should my macros look like if I am trying to lose some fat but keep some of my muscle (I understand you can’t keep it all when losing fat). Then also is a tbol only cycle pointless ?
You can always try out some natural anabolics in the meantime while your waiting to run actual gear.

As far as diet I would keep protein 1g per pound of body weight and not be in too big of a deficit calorie wise if you’re trying to keep most muscle as possible
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
Thank you everyone. I have decided to hold off for now and focus on my diet and use my natural potential more. I went out today and bought a **** ton of meal prepping stuff. (Rice,chicken,fruit,veggies). I do have a few more questions. What should my macros look like if I am trying to lose some fat but keep some of my muscle (I understand you can’t keep it all when losing fat). Then also is a tbol only cycle pointless ?
Do you know your maintenance calorie amount? Meaning the amount of daily calories, where you don't lose or gain any weight? If you do, then one simple approach would be to consume 190 g of protein, 60 g of fats and fill up the rest remaining calories with carbs. It's a bit individual how much fat and carbs people do best with, so you could consume less or more fat/carbs, but you'd have to know which amounts work for you. Then you start to decrease calories from carbs or/and fat as you progress on your cut and your metabolism slows down. Or increase activity, either via general activity (aka NEAT) or via increasing cardio. That's a short explanation, but that's it in a nutshell.

Enough protein and enough of stimulus (gym WO) will retain muscle.
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Diet is 90% of the battle. You can out diet substandard training but you can't out train a shiv diet. I find eating the same meals every day really helps. With an anything goes cheat day once per week. Go with a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (based on goal weight not actual weight if your trying to lose fat). It makes it so much easier to tweak the diet and add in a piece of fruit for 100 Cals of extra carbs or take out the peanut butter from a shake etc.

Every meal has to be something you look forward to though or it won't work. Eat steak or chicken thighs over just chicken breast as they are more tasty. My preworkout meal is a wholemeal wrap with hazelnut spread and peanut butter all wrapped around a banana. Still lost 24 lbs in the last six to seven weeks. Its about getting your protein in and maintaining a deficit.

At the end of the day the best diet is the one you will stick to.
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
To make it easy in the beginning just try a 1:1 ratio of protein to carbs so if you eat 200 grams of protein eat that many carbs as well with healthy fats added in. Try that for a few weeks and see how it goes. It's real basic but that way you won't get overwhelmed or confused. Remember protein is most important and trust me at your age you can put on muscle while in a cut if your protein is high enough and your training your ass off. No alcohol..it is the absolute worst thing for muscle growth. Every time you drink your just putting poison into your muscles I'm not exaggerating either
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Thank you everyone. I have decided to hold off for now and focus on my diet and use my natural potential more. I went out today and bought a **** ton of meal prepping stuff. (Rice,chicken,fruit,veggies). I do have a few more questions. What should my macros look like if I am trying to lose some fat but keep some of my muscle (I understand you can’t keep it all when losing fat). Then also is a tbol only cycle pointless ?
People already covered you on starter macros (BW Protein is a good ballpark, 60 fats is plenty, then carbs for the rest and manipulate carbs and some fat down as you need to keep losing).

Don’t do oral only cycles, and don’t waste your time with natural anabolics. Those are for older lifetime naturals who don’t mind spending a ton of cash for 1% improvements. They also aren’t as useful for someone your age who isn’t low T, who essentially is anabolic enough as it is.

When you eventually run a proper cycle someday, that will blow past every possible gain you’d have from anything natural, or even silly short oral cycles, all in one fell swoop.

Be patient and build your foundation to use steroids optimally when you have the knowledge to say it’s time with confidence; play the long game.
 
match

match

Active member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
Thank you everyone. I have decided to hold off for now and focus on my diet and use my natural potential more. I went out today and bought a **** ton of meal prepping stuff. (Rice,chicken,fruit,veggies). I do have a few more questions. What should my macros look like if I am trying to lose some fat but keep some of my muscle (I understand you can’t keep it all when losing fat). Then also is a tbol only cycle pointless ?
I think you're making the right choice.

All of the posts above mine here are great. You can keep it simple to start, and definitely cut out the alcohol.

When you have time, start watching this lecture series. It will help you really dial things in. You can start to adjust your diet to follow the principles you'll learn as you go.


For now, get started with meal prep and tracking your food intake and your weight. The more important you make your diet: the better your results are going to be.
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
This is what I just finished up cooking and making for the week. Going to try and do this weekly.
Are those paragraphs supposed to be in line? They don't fully match, or I just don't understand how they go to together, if they're meant to.

If you eat every 2 h, when do you work out? I don't know when you go to sleep, but if I ate my last meal at 8pm, when cutting, I'd be starving in the middle of the night.

Jerky that amounts to 9 g of protein is a very small snack. Will probably have you hungrier, than without it.

Other than that, I see some good choices and it's good to have protein on every meal. The total macros and kcals would be very beneficial to know (for you).
 
Last edited:
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Don't be afraid to season. Make those chicken and rice dishes as tasty as possible. I'm using a chipotle seasoning on my steak and chicken just now and it makes the world of difference. Can be a little high in sodium but for your goals won't break the bank.
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
This is what I just finished up cooking and making for the week. Going to try and do this weekly.
This is a really good start just watch the sugar intake with the fruit. I personally don't use protein powder because gram for gram whoke food is still cheaper and better but i also remember what it was like to be your age.lol. what I do is spend 2 hours on Monday abd Thursday prepping food for the week and weekend. Because we all know we don't have the time to do it everyday. You will lean that Tupperware and microwaves are some of the best inventions ever
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
This is a really good start just watch the sugar intake with the fruit. I personally don't use protein powder because gram for gram whoke food is still cheaper and better but i also remember what it was like to be your age.lol. what I do is spend 2 hours on Monday abd Thursday prepping food for the week and weekend. Because we all know we don't have the time to do it everyday. You will lean that Tupperware and microwaves are some of the best inventions ever
Plus protein powder shakes have very low satiety effect, which may become an issue on a cut. Funnily enough, I've been drinking a whey shake every morning for the last 10+ years or something (except when on a cut) and one of the reasons is, that it's been the cheapest protein source I could find. No other protein source has been that low of a price per gram. The last 6-12 months the whey prices have been going way up. I think I need to do some recalculation.
 
Last edited:
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
This is a really good start just watch the sugar intake with the fruit.
I personally wouldn’t worry over some sugar from fruit, not for a 190lb hard-training 21 year old male, generally speaking. Fruit has fiber for gut health & lipid support, micronutrients, offers larger satiety than almost all other sugars and is a single ingredient non-processed natural food. Fructose from actual whole fruit doesn’t tend to be detrimental the way it is in all of the processed ways the food industry uses it.

He could probably eat a banana, apple, orange, and some berries every single day and still get ripped, at his age - his demographic usually just needs to focus on avoiding going out for fast food all the time and snacking on junk food or sugar drinks. Being consistent with making whole food choices will largely get him where he wants to go.
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
Eating a fruit is like putting money in the bank!
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
I personally wouldn’t worry over some sugar from fruit, not for a 190lb hard-training 21 year old male, generally speaking. Fruit has fiber for gut health & lipid support, micronutrients, offers larger satiety than almost all other sugars and is a single ingredient non-processed natural food. Fructose from actual whole fruit doesn’t tend to be detrimental the way it is in all of the processed ways the food industry uses it.

He could probably eat a banana, apple, orange, and some berries every single day and still get ripped, at his age - his demographic usually just needs to focus on avoiding going out for fast food all the time and snacking on junk food or sugar drinks. Being consistent with making whole food choices will largely get him where he wants to go.
Yea good point..I keep forgetting how young he really is which is the whole point of us telling him not to gear up. I eat fruit throughout the day I cover my oatmeal I frozen berries at night after I get home from the gym. That'll honestly be the hardest thing to give up when I change my diet in 2 weeks. ( started cardio last week.
 
LeanEngineer

LeanEngineer

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
Yea good point..I keep forgetting how young he really is which is the whole point of us telling him not to gear up. I eat fruit throughout the day I cover my oatmeal I frozen berries at night after I get home from the gym. That'll honestly be the hardest thing to give up when I change my diet in 2 weeks. ( started cardio last week.
Why would you need to give that up, if it'll be a hard thing to give up? Unless you mean like eating a ton of fruits in a day normally. I eat 2 fruits a day normally, before and after WO and have different berries with my oatmeal in the morning. When I start to lower calories on a cut, the fruit after WO is the first thing I remove, mostly due to convinience and a low impact on satiety. But I don't think I've ever (intentionally) removed the preWO fruit or the berries in my oatmeal.

Fruits are good, always, but of course too much is too much and what is too much, depends on the situation. Keto or low carb diet will have those out/to a minimun, of course.

Just having general convo on the topic, btw.
 
Last edited:

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Why would you need to give that up, if it'll be a hard thing to give up? Unless you mean like eating a ton of fruits in a day normally. I eat 2 fruits a day normally, before and after WO and have different berries with my oatmeal in the morning. When I start to lower calories on a cut, the fruit after WO is the first thing I remove, mostly due to convinience and a low impact on satiety. But I don't think I've ever (intentionally) removed the preWO fruit or the berries in my oatmeal.

Fruits are good, always, but of course too much is too much and what is too much, depends on the situation. Keto or low carb diet will have those out/to a minimun, of course.

Just having general convo on the topic, btw.
Yea gonna ramp up this cut in the next few weeks and the oatmeal with frozen fruit after is gonna be tough. I train after work in the evening so my post workout meal is the last one I eat before bed. O don't get to the gym until around 430 and gotta be in bed by 730 or 8 to be up at 230 to be at work by 4. It sucks but it is what it is.
 
match

match

Active member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
Yea gonna ramp up this cut in the next few weeks and the oatmeal with frozen fruit after is gonna be tough. I train after work in the evening so my post workout meal is the last one I eat before bed. O don't get to the gym until around 430 and gotta be in bed by 730 or 8 to be up at 230 to be at work by 4. It sucks but it is what it is.
According to Dr Mike with RP, post workout carbs are great for you. I can't imagine cutting out the post workout meal, esp if it was my last meal before bed.

Gonna sleep much better if your stomach isn't empty, unless I'm misunderstanding your plan.
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
According to Dr Mike with RP, post workout carbs are great for you. I can't imagine cutting out the post workout meal, esp if it was my last meal before bed.

Gonna sleep much better if your stomach isn't empty, unless I'm misunderstanding your plan.
No ill keep the post workout carbs but cut out the fruit and probably just do cream of rice instead. Yea there's no way I would cut them out completely and you're right there's nothing worse than going to bed hungry
 

Similar threads


Top