First cycle regret

Jamesdunlop

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Hi Guys,

Posted a couple time about starting a cycle a couple months back. Completely ignored advise of all you guys (which I'm sorry for). I regret listening to the boys in the gym instead as you all anticipated. I started the 12 week cycle of 300mg test e twice a week and 300mg deca twice a week. And taking 2.5mg letrozole every 4 days as ai. I started this cycle on 3rd October 2018

I know I should have listened to you guys to start with and I'm gonna listen to you now if anyone is willing to help me.

I've made some really good gains but I'm starting to get sore nipps, they look slightly swollen and feel a bit sensitive but no lumps underneath. More like a burning sensation. Anyway my questions are, should i continue with the cycle? Maybe drop the deca or just go straight to pct? Or seek advise of doctor? Or will more letro help?

I'm just paranoid now that I've made the wrong decision about this cycle and I need advice going forward. Shoulda went with the test only first cycle as you all said, for that I'm sorry! Lol.

Help a brother out please!
 
RickyBlobby

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Wait, you've been on cycle for 8 months?
 

Whisky

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No, I'm from UK, 3rd October. Sorry should have clarified
Can’t ignore a fellow Brit.

Your nip issue is most likely prolactin rather estro bro. Deca (and tren like most 19-nors cause prolactin issues) for which you need caber (or prami) for that. Letro is an ai so won’t do sh1t for prolactin.

I’d try caber or prami and monitor first. If that doesn’t work then up the letro
 
RickyBlobby

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I would cut down to 300 test, 4-500 deca. I bet that fixes you up.
 

Jamesdunlop

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Can’t ignore a fellow Brit.

Your nip issue is most likely prolactin rather estro bro. Deca (and tren like most 19-nors cause prolactin issues) for which you need caber (or prami) for that. Letro is an ai so won’t do sh1t for prolactin.

I’d try caber or prami and monitor first. If that doesn’t work then up the letro
Thanks for helping us out bro!

So you reckon keep the cycle the same and just add in caber or prami, any idea where I could source this in the UK? If i get hold of this and it doesn't work I'll up the letro dosage. Is it a time sensitive issue?
 

Jamesdunlop

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I would cut down to 300 test, 4-500 deca. I bet that fixes you up.
Really? I thought if anything test should always be higher than deca? Don't mean any disrespect but what makes you say this? Just interested in the knowledge
 

Whisky

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Thanks for helping us out bro!

So you reckon keep the cycle the same and just add in caber or prami, any idea where I could source this in the UK? If i get hold of this and it doesn't work I'll up the letro dosage. Is it a time sensitive issue?
Obviously can’t source talk here bro but I get pharma from Asia sent over. Normally takes a week but you’ll want to address it quicker than that really. Whereabouts you live?
 

Jstrong20

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1200 total mgs is way to much do first cycle, you could have bunk letro and elevated estrogen, prolactin issues from the deca, or both. As stated above cut your doses. If it was me I would ditch the deca and just finish the cycle with test only. 600mhs of test will give great results. Also if that doesn’t cure the nips problem you know your femera is fake. Maybe throw some b6 in for the prolactin.
 
MarkoK87

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Running 1.2gr per week on first cycle is really reckless. Test dose is to high for first time, I done 3-4 cycles with deca and never run it over 500mg and you run it on first cycle 600mg :( You probably have bunk letro and estro levels are high and also prolactin levels are high, on your place I would drop deca and continue cycle but with lower dose of test, maybe 400mg per week.
 

Jamesdunlop

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Thanks guys will take the advise and drop the deca and run the test at 250mg twice a week for the last 4 weeks. Will get new source of letro, some prami and b6. Cheers for the help guys. I know it was a reckless cycle, guys at the gym use this cycle and I just jumped on the band wagon. Stupid and careless I know. Lesson definetly learned here!
 
flandersguy

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Always be prepared with a backup reserve of ancillaries. Always.
 

Jamesdunlop

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Yeah I've learned this the hard way. Thought I had it all under control. I don't think I was as prepared for this cycle as I originally thought.
 

Jamesdunlop

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Obviously can’t source talk here bro but I get pharma from Asia sent over. Normally takes a week but you’ll want to address it quicker than that really. Whereabouts you live?
Yeah I get you. I live in Scotland, near Glasgow? I've managed to order but I can't source quicker than a week?
 
hairygrandpa

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Thanks for helping us out bro!

So you reckon keep the cycle the same and just add in caber or prami, any idea where I could source this in the UK? If i get hold of this and it doesn't work I'll up the letro dosage. Is it a time sensitive issue?
Well, Prami is the devil (for a lot of people). Read about it beforehand. Caber is good stuff for most -but has a hefty price tag.
I took ONE drop of prami to scope tolerance. I felt like dying for one day. Caber gave me a boner -and lowered prolactin, win-win.
 

Whisky

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Well, Prami is the devil (for a lot of people). Read about it beforehand. Caber is good stuff for most -but has a hefty price tag.
I took ONE drop of prami to scope tolerance. I felt like dying for one day. Caber gave me a boner -and lowered prolactin, win-win.
Meant to tag you in this thread - your area of expertise
 
MarkoK87

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Thanks guys will take the advise and drop the deca and run the test at 250mg twice a week for the last 4 weeks. Will get new source of letro, some prami and b6. Cheers for the help guys. I know it was a reckless cycle, guys at the gym use this cycle and I just jumped on the band wagon. Stupid and careless I know. Lesson definetly learned here!
Never listen guys in the gym, 90% of them are reckless and brainless. When you starting cycle you MUST have everything on hand and before you even start cycle you also must have everything for your pct. Don t know what moron you need to be to advice first time user to use nandrolone on first cycle, that is just beyond me. Problem is, even if you drop deca now, deca will stay in your system long time. Try to find aromasin and run it immediately and drop test dose to 400mg and use b6 vitamin before bad time, b6 will at least decrease prolactin levels little, but you need higher dosage.
 
hairygrandpa

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To curb costs, I took only 0.125mg of caber eod, together with 500mg/d Vit B-6. It worked. Don't go higher with the vitamin B-6.

Although vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin and is excreted in the urine, long-term supplementation with very high doses of pyridoxine may result in painful neurological symptoms known as sensory neuropathy. Symptoms include pain and numbness of the extremities and in severe cases, difficulty walking. -source: Inet-
 
BloodManor

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Am guys hooking another brother up with gains and knowledge
 
xR1pp3Rx

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Well, Prami is the devil (for a lot of people). Read about it beforehand. Caber is good stuff for most -but has a hefty price tag.
I took ONE drop of prami to scope tolerance. I felt like dying for one day. Caber gave me a boner -and lowered prolactin, win-win.
beat me to it..prami is rough stuff.. try to get caber if its an option.
 

Jamesdunlop

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Getting caber ordered today through a friend wont have it till start of next week but picking some b6 up today. Done the reearch on prami, sounds rough! Will drop deca altogether and drop test to 250mg twice a week for the last 4 weeks.
Thanks for the help guys, greatly appreciated. Won't make this mistake again. Won't be listening to the guys at the gym anymore either.

Will Nolva be a suitable pct for the cycle I've done? 40mgs for first 2 weeks then 20mg for next 2 weeks?
 
MarkoK87

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Only nolva in pct is not that good, you must add some good test booster, ZMA also, a lot of vitamin C, maybe little clomid with nolva and start pct 2 weeks after last injection of test e and drop deca right now. Also adding sarm like cardinine in pct is not bad idea :)
 
RickyBlobby

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Really? I thought if anything test should always be higher than deca? Don't mean any disrespect but what makes you say this? Just interested in the knowledge
Nah that's just a myth. As long as you manage estrogen and prolactin you are ok. High test = high estrogen which will intensify prolactin symptoms, including deca dick. The dosages I recommended have worked fine for many.
 
Chados

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Few things to clear up. Test should be lower because deca is just a much better steroid. Everything comes from testosterone with some molecule changes none of us (I assume) understand to any higher degree. You can run test and deca at the same amount but every time you raise test you'll increase sides just like you do with deca so keeping test low can give deca the chance to shine while avoiding sides as much as possible.

Another thing I wanna touch upon since people say the amount of gear is reckless on a first cycle. It's only reckless because you don't know how you respond but it's not reckless in terms of health if you go by the argument that you will go that high in future cycles. It's better to take a lot of gear (health wise) 2 or 3 times than go run long cycles with less muscle gains and keep cholesterol and blood pressure high for months at the time. It's also definitely worse to say well I do 5 (healthy cycles) and then I start adding more which automatically means more cycles.

The best option is to always keep steroids low and to do short cycles and after that never touch gear again, but if your goal is to put on 20lbs and quit its better to go all in 2-3 short 8 week cycles than having 3 20 week cycles at low dosage while your cholesterol is going high cause that's twice the amount of time and over one year on steroids.
 
Shiznitzz

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Few things to clear up. Test should be lower because deca is just a much better steroid. Everything comes from testosterone with some molecule changes none of us (I assume) understand to any higher degree. You can run test and deca at the same amount but every time you raise test you'll increase sides just like you do with deca so keeping test low can give deca the chance to shine while avoiding sides as much as possible.

Another thing I wanna touch upon since people say the amount of gear is reckless on a first cycle. It's only reckless because you don't know how you respond but it's not reckless in terms of health if you go by the argument that you will go that high in future cycles. It's better to take a lot of gear (health wise) 2 or 3 times than go run long cycles with less muscle gains and keep cholesterol and blood pressure high for months at the time. It's also definitely worse to say well I do 5 (healthy cycles) and then I start adding more which automatically means more cycles.

The best option is to always keep steroids low and to do short cycles and after that never touch gear again, but if your goal is to put on 20lbs and quit its better to go all in 2-3 short 8 week cycles than having 3 20 week cycles at low dosage while your cholesterol is going high cause that's twice the amount of time and over one year on steroids.
Chados dropping the bombs in this thread

+1 to you man
 

Jamesdunlop

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Few things to clear up. Test should be lower because deca is just a much better steroid. Everything comes from testosterone with some molecule changes none of us (I assume) understand to any higher degree. You can run test and deca at the same amount but every time you raise test you'll increase sides just like you do with deca so keeping test low can give deca the chance to shine while avoiding sides as much as possible.

Another thing I wanna touch upon since people say the amount of gear is reckless on a first cycle. It's only reckless because you don't know how you respond but it's not reckless in terms of health if you go by the argument that you will go that high in future cycles. It's better to take a lot of gear (health wise) 2 or 3 times than go run long cycles with less muscle gains and keep cholesterol and blood pressure high for months at the time. It's also definitely worse to say well I do 5 (healthy cycles) and then I start adding more which automatically means more cycles.

The best option is to always keep steroids low and to do short cycles and after that never touch gear again, but if your goal is to put on 20lbs and quit its better to go all in 2-3 short 8 week cycles than having 3 20 week cycles at low dosage while your cholesterol is going high cause that's twice the amount of time and over one year on steroids.
Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. So if you where in my position you would lower the test and keep deca higher? I definetly should have done more research! I was planning on dropping deca altogether and lowering test for the last 4 week's?

Never really thought about cycle length like that but makes total sense. I don't know if I'll ever do another cycle to be honest. I've kinda put myself off it with being so under prepared. It's actually stressful haha. But thanks for taking the time to clear that up!
 

Jamesdunlop

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So new source of letro is here today, anyone recommend dosage? It's 2.5mg a pop and a new brand from previous supplier. Was taking 1 every 4 days but got the sore nips.
Got the vitamin b6 today will add that in for the possible prolactin issue (Will keep it to no more than 500mg per day). Caber is ordered and will arrive start of next week

And as for pct I've went and picked that up so I'm prepared.. it's sis labs pct tablets, containing tamoxifen 20mg, clomiphene 50mg, mesterolone 25mg, tadalfil 7.5mg. So taking that 2 weeks after last injection along will plenty vitamin c, test booster, and zma tablets. Sound decent?
 
Sheriff Morri

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For a first timer your resources are amazing buddy.
 
Chados

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Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. So if you where in my position you would lower the test and keep deca higher? I definetly should have done more research! I was planning on dropping deca altogether and lowering test for the last 4 week's?

Never really thought about cycle length like that but makes total sense. I don't know if I'll ever do another cycle to be honest. I've kinda put myself off it with being so under prepared. It's actually stressful haha. But thanks for taking the time to clear that up!
Anytime.. Removing deca will put you at a safer place which I can't argue against right? The argument you'd have is that you wasted money and time doing so.

If you ask me for my unbiased opinion but more what I would do myself it'd be to lower the test and keep deca higher cause that would be how I would start and Finnish a cycle like that.
 
Chados

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So new source of letro is here today, anyone recommend dosage? It's 2.5mg a pop and a new brand from previous supplier. Was taking 1 every 4 days but got the sore nips.
Got the vitamin b6 today will add that in for the possible prolactin issue (Will keep it to no more than 500mg per day). Caber is ordered and will arrive start of next week

And as for pct I've went and picked that up so I'm prepared.. it's sis labs pct tablets, containing tamoxifen 20mg, clomiphene 50mg, mesterolone 25mg, tadalfil 7.5mg. So taking that 2 weeks after last injection along will plenty vitamin c, test booster, and zma tablets. Sound decent?
You could start pct right after the last injection and run it for 6 weeks. It might help recovery faster.
 

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Anytime.. Removing deca will put you at a safer place which I can't argue against right? The argument you'd have is that you wasted money and time doing so.

If you ask me for my unbiased opinion but more what I would do myself it'd be to lower the test and keep deca higher cause that would be how I would start and Finnish a cycle like that.
So it basically comes down to the safer option or most effective option?

With regards to the pct, what would be the benefit of starting immediately after last injection? I was told originally drop deca after 10 weeks and test after 12 weeks then start pct on week 14 to 18?
 
RickyBlobby

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So it basically comes down to the safer option or most effective option?

With regards to the pct, what would be the benefit of starting immediately after last injection? I was told originally drop deca after 10 weeks and test after 12 weeks then start pct on week 14 to 18?
Like I said earlier, 300test 400deca should treat you well. I’d rather see you use aromasin instead of letro because Letro crashes your estrogen hard and aromasin does a better job of keeping it somewhat in range.

Starting your SERM early gives your body a jumpstart on test production. People are under the impression that SERMS do nothing if you have steroids in your bloodstream but that has been disproven as of late.
 
Hyde

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Few things to clear up. Test should be lower because deca is just a much better steroid. Everything comes from testosterone with some molecule changes none of us (I assume) understand to any higher degree. You can run test and deca at the same amount but every time you raise test you'll increase sides just like you do with deca so keeping test low can give deca the chance to shine while avoiding sides as much as possible.

Another thing I wanna touch upon since people say the amount of gear is reckless on a first cycle. It's only reckless because you don't know how you respond but it's not reckless in terms of health if you go by the argument that you will go that high in future cycles. It's better to take a lot of gear (health wise) 2 or 3 times than go run long cycles with less muscle gains and keep cholesterol and blood pressure high for months at the time. It's also definitely worse to say well I do 5 (healthy cycles) and then I start adding more which automatically means more cycles.

The best option is to always keep steroids low and to do short cycles and after that never touch gear again, but if your goal is to put on 20lbs and quit its better to go all in 2-3 short 8 week cycles than having 3 20 week cycles at low dosage while your cholesterol is going high cause that's twice the amount of time and over one year on steroids.
IMG_1905.JPG


Gear use often has lifetime-affecting consequences for the HPTA. To intend to only use it a few times for gains that won’t meaningfully last when you stop using (provided you grew above your naturally supportable limit of course) is short-sighted. You can’t hold onto supraphysiological levels of muscle without the androgens required of such.
 
hairygrandpa

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So new source of letro is here today, anyone recommend dosage? It's 2.5mg a pop and a new brand from previous supplier. Was taking 1 every 4 days but got the sore nips.
Got the vitamin b6 today will add that in for the possible prolactin issue (Will keep it to no more than 500mg per day). Caber is ordered and will arrive start of next week

And as for pct I've went and picked that up so I'm prepared.. it's sis labs pct tablets, containing tamoxifen 20mg, clomiphene 50mg, mesterolone 25mg, tadalfil 7.5mg. So taking that 2 weeks after last injection along will plenty vitamin c, test booster, and zma tablets. Sound decent?
Those "sis labs pct" tabs have an interesting profile! One question: Why the hell LETRO??? Letro is like an atomic bomb compared to other AI's. Its the sulfuric acid compared to lemon juice.The: "start PCT when external test left the system" is bullsh1t. Start it right after your last shot and prolong it to 6-8 weeks. Nowadays guys cycle orals together with Serms to curb shutdown. Turns out Serms are stimulating HTPA even when on roids, so start PCT earlier and do it for longer.
No advise on letro dosage, because nobody uses it on cycle (maybe on Trestolone cycles -or to get rid of gyno).
 

Jamesdunlop

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Those "sis labs pct" tabs have an interesting profile! One question: Why the hell LETRO??? Letro is like an atomic bomb compared to other AI's. Its the sulfuric acid compared to lemon juice.The: "start PCT when external test left the system" is bullsh1t. Start it right after your last shot and prolong it to 6-8 weeks. Nowadays guys cycle orals together with Serms to curb shutdown. Turns out Serms are stimulating HTPA even when on roids, so start PCT earlier and do it for longer.
No advise on letro dosage, because nobody uses it on cycle (maybe on Trestolone cycles -or to get rid of gyno).
Interesting profile how?
I'm using letro as it was what was given to me as an AI, the guys reccomending the cycle use it so automatically I started using it. I'm in the middle of sourcing aromasin just now...think it's worth investing in with only 4 weeks left on cycle? Been using letro for 8 weeks but taking 2.5mg every 4 or 5 days

So much conflicting info out there with regards to pct timing... do you think my sis labs pct will be enough? And any idea on dosage? I'm not really wanting to ask the guys from the gym anymore as their info clearly isn't accurate.
 

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Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. So if you where in my position you would lower the test and keep deca higher? I definetly should have done more research! I was planning on dropping deca altogether and lowering test for the last 4 week's?

Never really thought about cycle length like that but makes total sense. I don't know if I'll ever do another cycle to be honest. I've kinda put myself off it with being so under prepared. It's actually stressful haha. But thanks for taking the time to clear that up!
You’ve been getting some great comment from experienced guys who know way more than me bro. But my personal view is that sensible cycles aren’t a one time gig. As Hyde says there is definitely the chance of permanent impact on the hpta so personally I made sure I was comfortable with that before I started, I also think that the ability to progress on aas compared to natty is so different that if you love to train it’s very hard to not touch anything again.

That said I personally think that sensible aas use can also be healthy.....my logic being that more lean mass and lower bf we know is better for us. As we age natural test declines and brings with it a decrease in lean mass and increase in bf.

Sensible is the key word above. That’s a tough balance as it is fun and always tempting to push the boundaries but in my mind

- good diet with plenty of micronutrients
- proper time off with bloods confirming return to homeostasis inbetween cycles 1-2 cycles a year max
- no drinking on cycle (with the harsher orals), why push it
- proper supports and ancillaries in place

Are things that help to minimise the negatives and maximise the benefits.

Oh and not listening to gym bros but taking the advice of the guys on here plus your own research (but I know you know that one now :)
 
Chados

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So it basically comes down to the safer option or most effective option?

With regards to the pct, what would be the benefit of starting immediately after last injection? I was told originally drop deca after 10 weeks and test after 12 weeks then start pct on week 14 to 18?
Yes that's correct.
Yes you can Finnish test a little later and let the deca leave your body. And the answer to pct was just answered by Ricky
 
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View attachment 175174

Gear use often has lifetime-affecting consequences for the HPTA. To intend to only use it a few times for gains that won’t meaningfully last when you stop using (provided you grew above your naturally supportable limit of course) is short-sighted. You can’t hold onto supraphysiological levels of muscle without the androgens required of such.
Well you're very unlikely and personally I've never heard of anyone gotten shutdown from one cycle regardless of length. suppression is important but it's not the most important thing to keep muscle, cortisol is. The thing im talking about is just how cholesterol affects you long term more than short and same with BP and how a lot of gear short term can be less harmful than a little gear long term and also more effective.
 
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Well you're very unlikely and personally I've never heard of anyone gotten shutdown from one cycle regardless of length. suppression is important but it's not the most important thing to keep muscle, cortisol is. The thing im talking about is just how cholesterol affects you long term more than short and same with BP and how a lot of gear short term can be less harmful than a little gear long term and also more effective.
Yeah, I’ve “heard” of guys not PCT’ing even after 12-16 weeks of test/deca, and maybe some orals thrown in and STILL not completely shutting themselves down and coming back. Some really lucky ones have come back in like a month (they could be fibbing, but I’ve known this one personally and doesn’t seem to be), not an excuse to be reckless..just the odds are in your favor. Be careful
 
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Yeah, I’ve “heard” of guys not PCT’ing even after 12-16 weeks of test/deca, and maybe some orals thrown in and STILL not completely shutting themselves down and coming back. Some really lucky ones have come back in like a month (they could be fibbing, but I’ve known this one personally and doesn’t seem to be), not an excuse to be reckless..just the odds are in your favor. Be careful
All those guys I bet had no bloodwork, but, I know guys that never pct and bounce back fine, it's a coin toss but why take the chance.
 
Hyde

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Well you're very unlikely and personally I've never heard of anyone gotten shutdown from one cycle regardless of length. suppression is important but it's not the most important thing to keep muscle, cortisol is. The thing im talking about is just how cholesterol affects you long term more than short and same with BP and how a lot of gear short term can be less harmful than a little gear long term and also more effective.
Our heads are in the right place, and I agree with you that less time over years spent with high bp and bad lipids = healthier.

But it’s a known fact that guys who cycle tend to reach andropause (ie Low T) sooner than the average guy never cycling. Again, just looking at averages because everyone is different. But everything being even, a guy who runs a few cycles will have low T sooner in life than if he hadn’t. And those years will be years with poor lipids unless he gets on TRT and moves his values into healthy ranges.

Running a few cycles = still risking worse lipids over lifetime, and still can’t hold muscles over natty level once off. I do not agree with you that cortisol is the primary governor. Cortisol can be terrible when on huge doses of gear and muscle can be insane. Levels of androgens matter most for muscular potential.
 
BarryBondsHOF

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All those guys I bet had no bloodwork, but, I know guys that never pct and bounce back fine, it's a coin toss but why take the chance.
Oh, I wasn’t trying to justify their bad habits. I was just trying to reassure OP that on his first cycle, barring extreme circumstances that he wouldn’t screw himself for life
 
hairygrandpa

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Interesting profile how?
I'm using letro as it was what was given to me as an AI, the guys reccomending the cycle use it so automatically I started using it. I'm in the middle of sourcing aromasin just now...think it's worth investing in with only 4 weeks left on cycle? Been using letro for 8 weeks but taking 2.5mg every 4 or 5 days

So much conflicting info out there with regards to pct timing... do you think my sis labs pct will be enough? And any idea on dosage? I'm not really wanting to ask the guys from the gym anymore as their info clearly isn't accurate.
The sis lab PCT is a combination of Serms with DHT and PDE5 inhibitor. Very good combo. Once a day is enough. Last two weeks of PCT I would do eod dosing. Apparently, Serms eod upps testosterone more than ed -and the cialis in the sis-stack will be a bit much, as it has a HL of 36hrs.
 

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Hi Guys, just wanted to ask one more question and thought I'd ask here cause all the details of cycle are already in this thread. I just wanted to know, is HCG injections prior to PCT nessecarry for my cycle? I'm coming off the test e in 2 weeks time and just wanted to know if I need hcg and if I didn't take it, what are the repercussions?
 

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Usually low test, high decca is much better than keeping them around the same, or you can keep your decca half your test dosage. It depeends on how you respond etc.

Anyway I wouldnt do decca at all on a first cycle unless your extremely lean or your trying to pack on size really fast for competition etc
 
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Hi Guys, just wanted to ask one more question and thought I'd ask here cause all the details of cycle are already in this thread. I just wanted to know, is HCG injections prior to PCT nessecarry for my cycle? I'm coming off the test e in 2 weeks time and just wanted to know if I need hcg and if I didn't take it, what are the repercussions?
Bro rule you’ll hear sometimes is over 10 weeks should use HCG. You could make the argument that any cycle could benefit from it.

It mimics LH so the testes stay sensitive to it instead of totally atrophying on cycle. So when you begin using your SERM that is upregulating your natural LH production, your nuts aren’t so shrunk & can kick back on quickly.

You’re investing in faster, more complete recovery. If you can obtain it, do so - YouTube someone on TRT self-administering; it’s very easy & painless.
 
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