First Cycle, Is it a solid plan? (Help)

[TheVenom]

All of the articles and forums I've read basically all say something different. Since I'll be frequenting this forum henceforth, I figure ongoing feedback from you guys is a good idea. First, about me.

I'm 24 years old, and have been lifting (seriously) since I was 16. My father was into bodybuilding and tried to teach me at an even younger age but I didn't really put forth effort until I was 16. I'm 5'9" and my heaviest was 165-170, natty, clean diet. My natural T is very low for my age, I'd rather not talk numbers about it, from an injury in my adolescence where I lost a nut and damaged the other. Two years ago I suffered an injury that took a toll on me physically and mentally. As of a few weeks ago, I've turned that around and made the choice to get life back.

As of right now, I'm down to 145lbs. I'm doing full-body 5 days a week until I get my balance back and get used to the positive lifestyle change again. Then I'll be following 5/3/1 as I had the best strength gains. I'll be waiting until I'm at least up to 160 before I actually start my cycle, but want plenty of time to change the plan and make any adjustments, so I figure I'll go ahead and ask. I imagine the plan going something like this, with the goal of gaining strength and lean mass


Run Test.E for 8 weeks, dosing 500mg once weekly.

Week 9, I'll be clean of any AAS
The first day of week 10, I'll dose Nolva 100mg
Next 10 days will be Nolva 60mg, and the 10 days will be Nolva at 35.

I don't PLAN to run an AI but can go ahead and place an order for some in the event things get a little too wet. I'm open to suggestions as I've not been able to get a solid idea on which to use.

Also, I've realized since getting back into the swing of things that my joints aren't used to the weight anymore, and that AAS have a tendency to dry joints out. I take Move Free Advanced Plus MSM, thinking of maybe adding cissus, too. Or is Test.E not a burden on joints like some other AAS?

Any input is appreciated.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Hopping on a cycle will only make your low test worse. No offense, but I don’t even really believe your story. Go see an endocrinologist and see if they can help. If your story is true, you’ll get big on cycle, then shrink after; and your test will only be lower once you come off.

 

[The Express 42]

Do you plan on having kids one day? If so I would try to get that one nut up and working. One cycle may kiss your chances goodbye. That being said, you want to split your doses to 250mg twice a week for more stable blood levels. I think test e or c is a bit of a waste at 8 weeks. It won’t even kick in until week 3-5. I would only do 8 weeks if I was doing prop. Definitely suggest doing 12. Highly recommend some hcg to keep your one testicle running. Two shots of 250 hcg each week stop two weeks before pct. You will absolute need an AI such as Exemestane or Arimidex while on cycle. I also wouldn’t run a cycle without taking CEL cycle assist throughout. I think it is dumb to not start your AI immediately but to each their own. The only thing more dumb is your pct protocol. No reason to run Nolva over 40mg daily, maybe two weeks, then 2 weeks at 20mg and 2 at 10mg. You need to do ALOT of research before you touch anything. You’re going to put yourself in a real ****ty spot if you don’t. I’m 24 years old too wouldn’t run a test cycle again without monthly bloodwork to see how everything is going. Do some research dingleberries good heavens

 

[TheVenom]

Hopping on a cycle will only make your low test worse. No offense, but I don’t even really believe your story. Go see an endocrinologist and see if they can help. If your story is true, you’ll get big on cycle, then shrink after; and your test will only be lower once you come off.

Whether or not you believe me isn't my concern. I could pm you some nudes and my bloodwork if that would blow your skirt up. I was told since I'm "within normal levels" for the demographic of men who typically seek TRT, my insurance wouldn't cover it, but I could chose to pay out of pocket for it. That's the way the how and why was explained to me. Being at the low-end of normal range for someone almost twice my age may be fine and dandy for someone twice my age, but not a 24 year old.

We discussed long-term therapy and I'm not sure I'm stable enough to continuously afford it right now. Would I lose all of the progress I made shortly after ending my cycle or would it be a two steps forward, one step back situation?

 

[TheVenom]

Do you plan on having kids one day? If so I would try to get that one nut up and working. One cycle may kiss your chances goodbye. That being said, you want to split your doses to 250mg twice a week for more stable blood levels. I think test e or c is a bit of a waste at 8 weeks. It won’t even kick in until week 3-5. I would only do 8 weeks if I was doing prop. Definitely suggest doing 12. Highly recommend some hcg to keep your one testicle running. Two shots of 250 hcg each week stop two weeks before pct. You will absolute need an AI such as Exemestane or Arimidex while on cycle. I also wouldn’t run a cycle without taking CEL cycle assist throughout. I think it is dumb to not start your AI immediately but to each their own. The only thing more dumb is your pct protocol. No reason to run Nolva over 40mg daily, maybe two weeks, then 2 weeks at 20mg and 2 at 10mg. You need to do ALOT of research before you touch anything. You’re going to put yourself in a real ****ty spot if you don’t. I’m 24 years old too wouldn’t run a test cycle again without monthly bloodwork to see how everything is going. Do some research dingleberries good heavens

Thanks man, there's a lot of info out there and I'm having a hard time sifting through all of the bad information. Most articles I've read differ wildly from the previous and next ones. I get my bloodwork done every 3 months, monthly wouldn't be a problem at all though. From what I've read there isn't much evidence that anything can undo the damage because scar tissue is as "healed" as its going to get.

To be clear, I'm not trying to get huge. I'm in pretty good shape, I just know being stronger would greatly improve my quality of life and what skinny guy doesn't want to be a little bigger?

 

[The Express 42]

I don't know how well serms will work in your post cycle, consider your pre cycle testosterone levels are already very low. I am not a doctor but my gut tells me that your levels will remain very low once you get off the test serm or not. So you're pretty likely to waste all your gains and money spent on cycle. Sounds to me like you need to stay on test. There is a trt clinic that is a site sponsor. Try getting into talks with them, I think its something like $120 a month, worth it if your test is really so bad. I believe it is entourage medical

 

[TheVenom]

Holy crap $150/mo is a steal compared to the rates here. Thanks for the good direction.

 

[The Express 42]

Holy crap $150/mo is a steal compared to the rates here. Thanks for the good direction.

No problem obviously they have to consider you to be eligible and yeah I found them it is $120 a month. That will include the test, hcg, and AI too. Seem to be a pretty solid company. Id be curious to hear how hcg works for you as it may allow you to remain fertile while on test

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Share your bloodwork, we aren’t going to hate on you for it. How much was trt without insurance for you? And what type of physician was it that you were seeing? Hopefully it wasn’t a trt/hrt clinic.

 

[Renew1]

Hey brother, you are getting some very good advice here. It is always a very good idea to research cycling very thoroughly before you do it, but in your case, I'd say it is even more important. In any case, I wish you well.

 

[TheVenom]

So we're ruling out the idea of cycling being a typical experience for me? This was a fast turn in discussion lol

 

[AnabolicGuru]

So we're ruling out the idea of cycling being a typical experience for me? This was a fast turn in discussion lol

No. It’s just dumb because it would only make ur test lower in the long run. You’d slowly lose your gains after. If your real concern is low test, find a smart doctor to help you. You should also post ur bloodwork so we can see as well. Honestly, even if one testicle was removed, I’d still think the body would produce enough. The hypothalamus and pituitary both work really well at acknowledging issues and fixing them. If the hypothalamus would recognize low test, low sperm, low estro, etc. then it would send a signal to the pituitary to secrete more lh and fsh to my understanding. Your problem could just be due to bad diet, training, sleep, hormonal imbalances (prolactin, shbg, e2, etc) So I’d dig deeper into figuring out a real solution as opposed to one that would only worsen the issue.

 

[TheVenom]

These are my results from 2 months ago.

T-Serum: 505 ng/dl
Free-T : 20.5 pg/ml (not ng/dl)
TSH : 1.95 uiu/ml
Free-T4 : 1.29 ng/dl

I'm not seeing prolactin, e2, or shgb on the panels tested. Would the be under different names? I asked for "complete bloodwork" but the first time I got it done they didn't add the testosterone levels at all and I had to request them specifically to be tested on future labs. The only things that typically come up as slightly off is my BUN/Creatinine ratio and a high A/G ratio, but was told that's common in people with kidney stones, even when properly hydrated. And this is all done by my general practitioner. Wrong guy, wrong tests run too?

When I first started to get labs done my counts were all over the table, highs and lows, turns out from concurrent kidney infections, supposedly from stones. My serum test was sub-400. My wbc's, BUN/Cre, and A/G were wildly inconsistent as well. Could kidney health play a role in this?

Also, the remaining testicle was damaged both from trauma and necrosis of the one that was removed. I'm not sure how it all works down to the science. All I really know is that I was told the scar tissue on the remaining testicle won't reverse, and the delayed treatment of the necrotic one could have irreparably damaged the remaining one.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

These are my results from 2 months ago.

T-Serum: 505 ng/dl
Free-T : 20.5 pg/ml (not ng/dl)
TSH : 1.95 uiu/ml
Free-T4 : 1.29 ng/dl

I'm not seeing prolactin, e2, or shgb on the panels tested. Would the be under different names? I asked for "complete bloodwork" but the first time I got it done they didn't add the testosterone levels at all and I had to request them specifically to be tested on future labs. The only things that typically come up as slightly off is my BUN/Creatinine ratio and a high A/G ratio, but was told that's common in people with kidney stones, even when properly hydrated. And this is all done by my general practitioner. Wrong guy, wrong tests run too?

When I first started to get labs done my counts were all over the table, highs and lows, turns out from concurrent kidney infections, supposedly from stones. My serum test was sub-400. My wbc's, BUN/Cre, and A/G were wildly inconsistent as well. Could kidney health play a role in this?

Also, the remaining testicle was damaged both from trauma and necrosis of the one that was removed. I'm not sure how it all works down to the science. All I really know is that I was told the scar tissue on the remaining testicle won't reverse, and the delayed treatment of the necrotic one could have irreparably damaged the remaining one.

505ng/dl isn’t really that low. It’s not optimal for your age, but it’s at a decent point right now that could easily be brought up to 600+ naturally. I’m not sure about the free test since every lab has different methods of testing it, hence different reference ranges. I’d try to get more stuff checked to see if anything else is causing the symptoms. Prolactin, estradiol, shbg, dht, cortisol, etc.

 

[TheVenom]

Literally none of those are on the "complete blood work". What should I ask for next time to get these? Sex hormone test?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Literally none of those are on the "complete blood work". What should I ask for next time to get these? Sex hormone test?

I just tell my physician exactly which things I want tested. Some physicians tend to be stubborn and deny because they like being in charge; if that happens, I’d honestly look for a new one. I had seen a few physicians who wouldn’t test my prolactin after requesting it, only to find out it was high a few months down the road.

 

[TheVenom]

I just tell my physician exactly which things I want tested. Some physicians tend to be stubborn and deny because they like being in charge; if that happens, I’d honestly look for a new one. I had seen a few physicians who wouldn’t test my prolactin after requesting it, only to find out it was high a few months down the road.

Man you've all been really helpful. I'll do some research on what all needs to be tested and maybe start a new thread when I find a conclusion

 

[Choppedjunior]

505 Isnt terribly low. I have 550 and sometimes been in the Mid 400's. I Talked to an endo and my dr about this, they always gave me the brush off and i actually read my medical records and he started saying I had body dysmorphia as Im 6"2 and 170lbs and have had a personal trainer for a while and working out since i was like 15 im 28 now and always stressed to them i eat a ton and workout yet cant gain weight. Im not sure your case as id worry about the one nut issue. Ive only done Prohormones and SARMS so cant speak to pinning, but thats probably my next route if i care enough, ive lost some desire as it feels like a battle I cant win with drs. or my own body. PHs Ive gained a good amount and looked awesome but after cycle usually only retain around 4lbs or so, yes thats quite a bit but for the effort and risk on my body idk if its worth it. I am about to do one more MSTEN TD TREST and SARM cycle for 15 weeks (MSTEN only 4 weeks). If i dont gain and keep around 5 lbs or more. probably done with PHs then would consider pinning but seems like such a hassle.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

505 Isnt terribly low. I have 550 and sometimes been in the Mid 400's. I Talked to an endo and my dr about this, they always gave me the brush off and i actually read my medical records and he started saying I had body dysmorphia as Im 6"2 and 170lbs and have had a personal trainer for a while and working out since i was like 15 im 28 now and always stressed to them i eat a ton and workout yet cant gain weight. Im not sure your case as id worry about the one nut issue. Ive only done Prohormones and SARMS so cant speak to pinning, but thats probably my next route if i care enough, ive lost some desire as it feels like a battle I cant win with drs. or my own body. PHs Ive gained a good amount and looked awesome but after cycle usually only retain around 4lbs or so, yes thats quite a bit but for the effort and risk on my body idk if its worth it. I am about to do one more MSTEN TD TREST and SARM cycle for 15 weeks (MSTEN only 4 weeks). If i dont gain and keep around 5 lbs or more. probably done with PHs then would consider pinning but seems like such a hassle.

Honestly, if you’ve been working out that long and have those stats, somethings probably off. Are you tracking cals? Are you seeing a good personal trainer or just a dumb commercial gym one? And just start pinning if you want to run 15 week cycles man; that’s insanely long for stuff that kicks in right away and has relatively detrimental effects on overall health.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Man you've all been really helpful. I'll do some research on what all needs to be tested and maybe start a new thread when I find a conclusion

Total test, free test, lh, fsh, shbg, dht, estradiol, prolactin, cortisol, dhea, androstenedione, pregnenolone, progesterone, tsh, t3, t4, rt3. Those are all worth getting checked. If your physician can’t simply order that bloodwork for you, then you’ll be better off finding a new one. I’ve personally spoked to a fair amount of physicians, including endocrinologists, primary cares, trt clinics, etc and my current primary care is the most helpful and understanding.

 

[TheVenom]

I think once I figure out if an imbalance is causing my stunted T, and then get it fixed, I'd still consider running a cycle of test e. Assuming it is possible to get a solid base level to start from...

All of the reasonable suppliers carry Nolva in injectable form. Would there be a difference in dosing compared to oral due to bioavailability? Again, this won't be happening until I can determine it is a good idea AND a good time.