First cycle expected mass gain

[Whriley67]

I have 5 10ml bottles of 250 mg/ml
Was told to run 500mg per week pinning every 3 days (500 mg per week) 12 weeks
I’m 175 6’ and 53 yrs old . First ever cycle
Seems like a lot. Was thinking doing 250mg every 4 days for 10 weeks or 7-8 pins per month. For 12 weeks that’s about 23 pins

That’s 2 12 week runs. (I’ll take 10 weeks off between cycles)
Is that good first cycle?
I’ve read of gains of 20-30 pounds possible with 15 - 20 real muscle after water loss.

what’s realistic? Assume diet is right and workout is right

 

[elo76]

I'm guessing you have already done your due diligence and have everything lined out for support supps and PCT right?

Have you ever ran anything at all hormonal?

 

[Heybros1]

You might keep 3 to 6 pounds if you do it right.

 

[KvanH]

Well the time off between cycles is too short for my liking. I would do 10 week cycle - 4 week pct - 14 week 'rest/regroup' - new cycle (if still wanting to do one) - minimum of 4 week pct.

 

[elo76]

Well the time off between cycles is too short for my liking. I would do 10 week cycle - 4 week pct - 14 week 'rest/regroup' - new cycle (if still wanting to do one) - minimum of 4 week pct.

Agree. A good rule to follow is.
Time on + PCT = Time off
(12+4) = 16

Also, there's one thing jumping out at me here....I would be very wary of running my first cycle of test at 53 unless I was planning on TRT in the future.

 

[Renew1]

I'm Really in agreement with the last two comments ↑↑↑.

..... And you're trying to follow one cycle up, as closely as possible with another.

Be aware that you could end up without a properly functioning hormonal system when you're done.

 

[Whisky]

Agree with all the comments above.......

few things to note:

- you’ve not said what test ester but based on the dosing protocol we can assume cyp or e.....if so then after the 12 weeks you would have to wait at least 2 (if not 3 or 4) weeks for the test to clear your system enough so your pct has a fighting chance to restart your hpta. Minimum would be clomid/nolva for 4 weeks (5 or 6 would be my suggestion) and already we are at between 6 weeks and 10 weeks before you finish pct after your last pin. Your own hormones will not have recovered before your 10 weeks ‘off’ is up bro. Not even close.

- I’m assuming you have a proper pct. you should have on cycle support. With test only to be fair you don’t need as much but at your age (I’m almost 40, I mean that with respect) the body doesn’t handle stress as well as it does in its 20s so protecting blood pressure (probably the main issue on test only) is important.

- I’m assuming you have an ai and know how to use it? If you don’t then do not start a cycle without one. No one wants to be growing titties at any age.

there’s some positives here

- test only is a great shout for a first cycle

- pin 2x a week is the standard approach for test e or cyp (theres debate over whether smaller amounts more frequently is more beneficial but test cyp 2x pw is standard and what a lot of us do)

no one can say what’ll you’ll gain or keep. Too many variables

- how much water you hold
- your genetics
- how far off your natural genetic limit you are
- individual response to test
- nutrition and training plan
- are you counting lean contractile tissue or any weight?

first cycles tend to add a bit more but it just varies person to person brother

 

[KvanH]

Never mind the ester, he didn't even disclose it's test But yeah, seems obvious.

This is kind of like shouting in the wind as OP hasn't given any answers yet, but I'll just add that if looking to recover your endocrine system from 12 week cycle, it would be very wise to use HCG throughout the cycle. Injected about every 3rd day. Someone with experience on that can give dosing guidelines if needed.

About the possible gains; like stated above there's a lot of variables and giving accurate numbers is impossible, but I'd say the 20 lbs you mentioned is a strecth. Probably not impossible if all stars are in line, but not likely. If when all is said and done with pct behind, you have 10 lbs more lean mass, I'd call it a success.

 

[Hyde]

What’s your PCT, what’s your AI, what’s your means of controlling blood pressure?

Tamoxifen, Exemestane, & Ayush Herbs Carditone are some recommendations here.

Revive Sups Heart product is probably the most relevant all-in-one cardiovascular support I know of. If you can spare the coin, use this instead of Carditone. It has Arjuna for bp control as well, but also has real doses of K2, Coq10, Curcumin, Olive extract, some D3 & Apigenin.

You should be planning on needing TRT after these cycles because at your age it’s a real possibility you may not recover your natural hormone production optimally.

Lastly, even if you are 10% bodyfat, 175 at 6” is pretty small. My concern, knowing nothing about you, is that you are an undereater. You will not grow without eating enough excess food. The drugs aren’t magic; the castle needs bricks to be built. Steroids are the workers, training is the foreman’s instructions for how to lay it out, but calories/nutrition are the bricks needed.

 

[Whisky]

Never mind the ester, he didn't even disclose it's test But yeah, seems obvious.

This is kind of like shouting in the wind as OP hasn't given any answers yet, but I'll just add that if looking to recover your endocrine system from 12 week cycle, it would be very wise to use HCG throughout the cycle. Injected about every 3rd day. Someone with experience on that can give dosing guidelines if needed.

About the possible gains; like stated above there's a lot of variables and giving accurate numbers is impossible, but I'd say the 20 lbs you mentioned is a strecth. Probably not impossible if all stars are in line, but not likely. If when all is said and done with pct behind, you have 10 lbs more lean mass, I'd call it a success.

hcg is a great addition to any cycle in my opinion.
I use it year round while blasting and cruising, not to make any eventual recovery easier, it just keeps the plums full and I like the sound of them slapping onto her ass cheeks when I’m going full Jack hammer

 

[KvanH]

hcg is a great addition to any cycle in my opinion.
I use it year round while blasting and cruising, not to make any eventual recovery easier, it just keeps the plums full and I like the sound of them slapping onto her ass cheeks when I’m going full Jack hammer

Makes them numb also apparently = )

Agree on the hcg usefulness on any cycle. I think the need for it increases as the cycle lenght increases and for a 12 week cycle it would really be important with the leyding cells and all. I've kind of kept about 8 weeks as some kind of borderline, where 8+ weeks really should have hcg in it. But that figure might just be made up in my mind to justify myself not pinning hcg while I do my 6-8 week PH runs (cojõnes still fat and well )

 

[Whisky]

Makes them numb also apparently = )

Agree on the hcg usefulness on any cycle. I think the need for it increases as the cycle lenght increases and for a 12 week cycle it would really be important with the leyding cells and all. I've kind of kept about 8 weeks as some kind of borderline, where 8+ weeks really should have hcg in it. But that figure might just be made up in my mind to justify myself not pinning hcg while I do my 6-8 week PH runs (cojõnes still fat and well )

haha, yeah not sure I’ve ever seen a timescale tbh.

when i pct’d I’ve done so having used hcg and having not and it was far easier on hcg tbh.

 

[Whriley67]

I'm guessing you have already done your due diligence and have everything lined out for support supps and PCT right?

Have you ever ran anything at all hormonal?

Many years ago
Androstat poppers
To be honest, didn’t know they were steroids
But loved the fact no matter how hard I worked I wasn’t sore. Now I have DOMS if I think about working hard

pct info is as varied as cycle info
I need it I don’t need it

Have yet to find just legit real supportive data
Seems to boil down to Everyone is different so do what works for you...

 

[Renew1]

Many years ago
Androstat poppers
To be honest, didn’t know they were steroids
But loved the fact no matter how hard I worked I wasn’t sore. Now I have DOMS if I think about working hard

pct info is as varied as cycle info
I need it I don’t need it

Have yet to find just legit real supportive data
Seems to boil down to Everyone is different so do what works for you...

Nah....

You're in the Right Spot brother.

You'll get some good info right here.

 

[Whisky]

Many years ago
Androstat poppers
To be honest, didn’t know they were steroids
But loved the fact no matter how hard I worked I wasn’t sore. Now I have DOMS if I think about working hard

pct info is as varied as cycle info
I need it I don’t need it

Have yet to find just legit real supportive data
Seems to boil down to Everyone is different so do what works for you...

to be honest bro the basics of pct are the same for everyone.....

yeah there’s tweaks and additions but the basics stay the same

 

[Whriley67]

to be honest bro the basics of pct are the same for everyone.....

yeah there’s tweaks and additions but the basics stay the same

I’m not as concerned about pct as I am over doing the test.
If I can take 250/week at 1/2ml 2 times a week to get the same results as 500 I’d rather do that. I’ve read some things suggesting you can max out with low doses and higher doses don’t do more for you ... again... maybe I’ve researched too much?

 

[wfreiling]

Keep it simple
Basic test cycle+ basic nolva pct
No need to over complicate in my opinion. As others have said before you pull the trigger make sure you’re ready for TRT. If not you’ve made it to 50 without AAS so maybe it’s better left untouched.

 

[Renew1]

I’m not as concerned about pct as I am over doing the test.
If I can take 250/week at 1/2ml 2 times a week to get the same results as 500 I’d rather do that. I’ve read some things suggesting you can max out with low doses and higher doses don’t do more for you ... again... maybe I’ve researched too much?

PCT is More Important in some ways than the cycle.

PCT is Very Important.

 

[Renew1]

I’m not as concerned about pct as I am over doing the test.
If I can take 250/week at 1/2ml 2 times a week to get the same results as 500 I’d rather do that. I’ve read some things suggesting you can max out with low doses and higher doses don’t do more for you ... again... maybe I’ve researched too much?

Brother, you haven't researched too much.
Not at all.

It just seems you've been researching in the wrong places.

You'll get good info Right Here.

 

[Whisky]

I’m not as concerned about pct as I am over doing the test.
If I can take 250/week at 1/2ml 2 times a week to get the same results as 500 I’d rather do that. I’ve read some things suggesting you can max out with low doses and higher doses don’t do more for you ... again... maybe I’ve researched too much?

unless you want to end up on trt then pct is far more important that the test bro. Aside from actually giving yourself the best chance to fully recover your own hormone production, the speed at which you do it will determine a lot of how much gained muscle you actually keep.....

 

[Whriley67]

Agree with all the comments above.......

few things to note:

- you’ve not said what test ester but based on the dosing protocol we can assume cyp or e.....if so then after the 12 weeks you would have to wait at least 2 (if not 3 or 4) weeks for the test to clear your system enough so your pct has a fighting chance to restart your hpta. Minimum would be clomid/nolva for 4 weeks (5 or 6 would be my suggestion) and already we are at between 6 weeks and 10 weeks before you finish pct after your last pin. Your own hormones will not have recovered before your 10 weeks ‘off’ is up bro. Not even close.

- I’m assuming you have a proper pct. you should have on cycle support. With test only to be fair you don’t need as much but at your age (I’m almost 40, I mean that with respect) the body doesn’t handle stress as well as it does in its 20s so protecting blood pressure (probably the main issue on test only) is important.

- I’m assuming you have an ai and know how to use it? If you don’t then do not start a cycle without one. No one wants to be growing titties at any age.

there’s some positives here

- test only is a great shout for a first cycle

- pin 2x a week is the standard approach for test e or cyp (theres debate over whether smaller amounts more frequently is more beneficial but test cyp 2x pw is standard and what a lot of us do)

no one can say what’ll you’ll gain or keep. Too many variables

- how much water you hold
- your genetics
- how far off your natural genetic limit you are
- individual response to test
- nutrition and training plan
- are you counting lean contractile tissue or any weight?

first cycles tend to add a bit more but it just varies person to person brother

Test e is what I’m taking.
Once again advice is all over
AI needed and the guy I’m getting it from is only a couple years younger and runs 500/week
And say he doesn’t use the other
What ai is suggested?
What pct is suggested?
Is there a file somewhere that spells this out?
My test is low enough that about 10 years ago with a lack of sleep and over drinking a day or two before my blood work my test was low enough for scrip. But the amount was so low it wasn’t worth the effort to pin.

I’m doing this at 53 because I’m looking to get some life back and some size and be functional at the same time. I was considering sarms too but couldn’t get consistent info there wither

natural supps all claim to be the best../ and nothing is consistent there either

feeling like it’s not worth the effort or risk to do anything at this point

It’s very discouraging

 

[KvanH]

Pct determines how much you keep the muscle you gained. So it determines was the cycle worth it.

Pct determines or at least partly determines will you end up on trt.

Pct determines or at least can determine will you get bitch tits.

Pct can determine if you get depressed after cycle.

Pct may impact will you get erectile disfunction.

I say 'worry' about the pct good lad.

 

[Whriley67]

Pct determines how much you keep the muscle you gained. So it determines was the cycle worth it.

Pct determines or at least partly determines will you end up on trt.

Pct determines or at least can determine will you get bitch tits.

Pct can determine if you get depressed after cycle.

Pct may impact will you get erectile disfunction.

I say 'worry' about the pct good lad.

I’m all ears on the pct needed and when to start and how much to take...
Of course I also need to now find a supply of that...

 

[Marne40]

All the info you’re looking for is right here, in this thread, from experienced dudes. Run the least effective dose of test, follow with a SERM PCT (tamoxifen, clomid). Either one of those are sold by board sponsors here. Take a little while and look through the supplement companies and decide which one you want to use. As Renew said, look for more info right here on these boards. You’ll be hard pressed to find anyone here in any of these threads recommending any dangerous cycles or drugs. It’s in your best interest to read a bunch though so you can decide what’s best for you.

 

[Renew1]

I’m all ears on the pct needed and when to start and how much to take...
Of course I also need to now find a supply of that...

I recommend Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) at 40/40/30/20 those are daily mg doses divided into 4 weeks.
Even safer would be to add another week at 20mg per day.

This is a good, reliable, safe place to get it:


Invalid Link Removed

 

[KvanH]

I’m all ears on the pct needed and when to start and how much to take...
Of course I also need to now find a supply of that...

Tamoxifen or Clomiphene or Toremifene if you want to get fancy. These are all SERMs = Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator. They 'tell' your brain to increase Lutenizing Hormone and thus kickstart your balls to produce test. Clumsy explanation, but don't bother to get too scientific for now. Tamox and Tore will protect you from gyno also. Clomid is in theory the best at kickstarting test production.

Tamox 4 weeks 20 mg / day Edit: higher dosing is playing it more safe. Go with @Renew1 s dose succestion. This is just what I've done.

Clomi 4 weeks 50 mg / day

Tore 4 weeks 80 mg / day (someone correct/validate, I'm not so versed on Tore).

Check out the board sponsors; MA research chems, Supreme labs, Premier Research Chems and there are probably others.

Start taking the serm 3-4 weeks from the last pin of test (again someone correct/validate, I haven't pinned test).

You can add some natural test booster if you like, it can help with mood and stuff for a bit. And some cortisol control supp is never a bad idea to incorporate to pct.

There are other factors too for a proper pct as training hard and eating enough to keep as much gains as possible that was acquired while being juiced to the gills (lol, 500 mg test / week is nothing crazy just felt like saying that).

You should use the search function on this forum and you'll find good info on pct and about everything you need. I can look up and link some good threads here when I get home, if I remember them and find them easily.

 

[wfreiling]

I recommend Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) at 40/40/30/20 those are daily mg doses divided into 4 weeks.
Even safer would be to add another week at 20mg per day.

This is a good, reliable, safe place to get it:


Invalid Link Removed

This is what you need. I can vouch for their nolva as well. Solid advice.

 

[Whisky]

Test e is what I’m taking.
Once again advice is all over
AI needed and the guy I’m getting it from is only a couple years younger and runs 500/week
And say he doesn’t use the other
What ai is suggested?
What pct is suggested?
Is there a file somewhere that spells this out?
My test is low enough that about 10 years ago with a lack of sleep and over drinking a day or two before my blood work my test was low enough for scrip. But the amount was so low it wasn’t worth the effort to pin.

I’m doing this at 53 because I’m looking to get some life back and some size and be functional at the same time. I was considering sarms too but couldn’t get consistent info there wither

natural supps all claim to be the best../ and nothing is consistent there either

feeling like it’s not worth the effort or risk to do anything at this point

It’s very discouraging

@Renew1 and @KvanH have set this out nicely for you brother. It is what i would also have said.

keep reading through old threads on here and although you will always find variances, you will see an overwhelming commonality on the basics.

for you these are:

- test e, pin 250mg each pin, twice a week (500mg a week total) is a standard good first cycle dose for test only, where you see guys running less it’s often because they are taking either an oral or another injectable which is adding more to the cycle.

- the fine gents have set out a variety of pct options. You can use any. Some people get emotional on clomid, personally I was fine with either. The key is get this in your hand before that first pin goes near your ass.

- the gap between your last pin and your pct is also important. Test e doesn’t leave your system fully for 30-50 days (it varies a bit). For at least 2-3 weeks (if not more) there is no point taking anything to kickstart your hpta as the testosterone will prevent that happening, so wait the 3 weeks then start pct

- an ai wasn’t discussed much. The reason you see
Conflicting advice is that it varies - some guys don’t need an ai at all on 500mg test, others would need some on 250mg a week. An ai acts to reduce your estrogen (there are a few different types, suicidal and non suicidal for example) but basically you only need one to stop your estrogen getting too high and causing gyno (male breasts). When estrogen gets high you’ll feel a sensitivity in your nipples and a soft putty forming behind the nipple, at this point dose a small amount of ai (I like aromasin at 12.5mg) and monitor. If it doesn’t go within a day dose it again. It should go and wait for it to come back. Then dose again. You’ll settle into a routine of how much ai you need and when by week 4 normally

 

[Alan1]

Your PCT should consist of you getting in your car and driving to your nearest clinic or physician that specializes in hormone replacement so you can get on TRT. I mean, so you're going to do a traditional PCT to try to get back to your testosterone levels which most assuredly are already on the lower end of a standard reference range? I guess I just don't see the point in all this hoopla about rockin' a "proper PCT, brah" when our guy is 53. For younger guys, sure. But just run your cycle and then plan on doing replacement from here on out (or very mild blast/cruises, perhaps). *I also just noticed you mention bloodwork from like 10 years ago showing test level low enough to get a prescription, along with the drinking and sleep. It's 10 years later now and I'd pretty much guarantee your levels are still low, even minus the other lifestyle factors. Again, you're 53 and I'd bet most 53 year olds that are looking to maintain/improve their physical being could benefit from even low dose TRT.

Yes, I'm being mildly facetious with the above but let's be real...he's not going to do a cycle at this point, do PCT, and be feeling awesome and expect to retain much of anything going forward being full natty yo at 53.

I also think it would be asinine to start at 500mg/wk. Start at 250mg, two 125mg shots per week and go from there. You can always increase if you feel good and are tolerating the lower dose well. Maybe I'm more risk averse, but would be a little concerned about side effects (both perceptible and imperceptible) at that higher dose.

 

[Renew1]

Your PCT should consist of you getting in your car and driving to your nearest clinic or physician that specializes in hormone replacement so you can get on TRT. I mean, so you're going to do a traditional PCT to try to get back to your testosterone levels which most assuredly are already on the lower end of a standard reference range? I guess I just don't see the point in all this hoopla about rockin' a "proper PCT, brah" when our guy is 53. For younger guys, sure. But just run your cycle and then plan on doing replacement from here on out (or very mild blast/cruises, perhaps). *I also just noticed you mention bloodwork from like 10 years ago showing test level low enough to get a prescription, along with the drinking and sleep. It's 10 years later now and I'd pretty much guarantee your levels are still low, even minus the other lifestyle factors. Again, you're 53 and I'd bet most 53 year olds that are looking to maintain/improve their physical being could benefit from even low dose TRT.

Yes, I'm being mildly facetious with the above but let's be real...he's not going to do a cycle at this point, do PCT, and be feeling awesome and expect to retain much of anything going forward being full natty yo at 53.

I also think it would be asinine to start at 500mg/wk. Start at 250mg, two 125mg shots per week and go from there. You can always increase if you feel good and are tolerating the lower dose well. Maybe I'm more risk averse, but would be a little concerned about side effects (both perceptible and imperceptible) at that higher dose.

REALLY??

How old are you, brah??

Because I'm closer to his age than you probably are, and PCT works Great.

If more people would go the suggested route, instead of rushing ahead to point "Z", things would generally go much better for them.

 

[Hyde]

Your PCT should consist of you getting in your car and driving to your nearest clinic or physician that specializes in hormone replacement so you can get on TRT. I mean, so you're going to do a traditional PCT to try to get back to your testosterone levels which most assuredly are already on the lower end of a standard reference range? I guess I just don't see the point in all this hoopla about rockin' a "proper PCT, brah" when our guy is 53. For younger guys, sure. But just run your cycle and then plan on doing replacement from here on out (or very mild blast/cruises, perhaps). *I also just noticed you mention bloodwork from like 10 years ago showing test level low enough to get a prescription, along with the drinking and sleep. It's 10 years later now and I'd pretty much guarantee your levels are still low, even minus the other lifestyle factors. Again, you're 53 and I'd bet most 53 year olds that are looking to maintain/improve their physical being could benefit from even low dose TRT.

Yes, I'm being mildly facetious with the above but let's be real...he's not going to do a cycle at this point, do PCT, and be feeling awesome and expect to retain much of anything going forward being full natty yo at 53.

I also think it would be asinine to start at 500mg/wk. Start at 250mg, two 125mg shots per week and go from there. You can always increase if you feel good and are tolerating the lower dose well. Maybe I'm more risk averse, but would be a little concerned about side effects (both perceptible and imperceptible) at that higher dose.

I told him to take Tamoxifen for PCT in my first post. He goes on to bitch that nobody is telling him what to take.

I told him he should plan on TRT instead, but he dodged that subject entirely too.

OP likes to ask questions but isn’t big on listening to answers, or reading them even apparently.

Don’t worry, he’ll make it to the clinic on his own within a year or so when he’s in a hormonal mess anyway.

 

[Whriley67]

@Renew1 and @KvanH have set this out nicely for you brother. It is what i would also have said.

keep reading through old threads on here and although you will always find variances, you will see an overwhelming commonality on the basics.

for you these are:

- test e, pin 250mg each pin, twice a week (500mg a week total) is a standard good first cycle dose for test only, where you see guys running less it’s often because they are taking either an oral or another injectable which is adding more to the cycle.

- the fine gents have set out a variety of pct options. You can use any. Some people get emotional on clomid, personally I was fine with either. The key is get this in your hand before that first pin goes near your ass.

- the gap between your last pin and your pct is also important. Test e doesn’t leave your system fully for 30-50 days (it varies a bit). For at least 2-3 weeks (if not more) there is no point taking anything to kickstart your hpta as the testosterone will prevent that happening, so wait the 3 weeks then start pct

- an ai wasn’t discussed much. The reason you see
Conflicting advice is that it varies - some guys don’t need an ai at all on 500mg test, others would need some on 250mg a week. An ai acts to reduce your estrogen (there are a few different types, suicidal and non suicidal for example) but basically you only need one to stop your estrogen getting too high and causing gyno (male breasts). When estrogen gets high you’ll feel a sensitivity in your nipples and a soft putty forming behind the nipple, at this point dose a small amount of ai (I like aromasin at 12.5mg) and monitor. If it doesn’t go within a day dose it again. It should go and wait for it to come back. Then dose again. You’ll settle into a routine of how much ai you need and when by week 4 normally

Very solid guys! Thanks all
Much appreciated !!! Hope to share a success story with you...!

 

[KvanH]

Your PCT should consist of you getting in your car and driving to your nearest clinic or physician that specializes in hormone replacement so you can get on TRT. I mean, so you're going to do a traditional PCT to try to get back to your testosterone levels which most assuredly are already on the lower end of a standard reference range? I guess I just don't see the point in all this hoopla about rockin' a "proper PCT, brah" when our guy is 53. For younger guys, sure. But just run your cycle and then plan on doing replacement from here on out (or very mild blast/cruises, perhaps). *I also just noticed you mention bloodwork from like 10 years ago showing test level low enough to get a prescription, along with the drinking and sleep. It's 10 years later now and I'd pretty much guarantee your levels are still low, even minus the other lifestyle factors. Again, you're 53 and I'd bet most 53 year olds that are looking to maintain/improve their physical being could benefit from even low dose TRT.

Yes, I'm being mildly facetious with the above but let's be real...he's not going to do a cycle at this point, do PCT, and be feeling awesome and expect to retain much of anything going forward being full natty yo at 53.

I also think it would be asinine to start at 500mg/wk. Start at 250mg, two 125mg shots per week and go from there. You can always increase if you feel good and are tolerating the lower dose well. Maybe I'm more risk averse, but would be a little concerned about side effects (both perceptible and imperceptible) at that higher dose.

We just don't know much about OP's condition and OP doesn't seem to be in favor of trt. Best would be to go take blood test first, and if levels are ok enough, do the cycle, do the best job at pct and go take bloods again. If recovered - nice. If not recovered, it's trt time just like several members noted first thing that it's a possibility. And if levels are not ok in the before cycle bloods, then start trt right away or fight it through like been done to this day (if really don't want trt). Imo

 

[Alan1]

REALLY??

How old are you, brah??

Because I'm closer to his age than you probably are, and PCT works Great.

If more people would go the suggested route, instead of rushing ahead to point "Z", things would generally go much better for them.

I'll just say I'm over 40 and flattered you called me brah. Makes me feel like I've still got it!

I was a bit emphatic in my reply above, and I'm not totally against PCT. For younger guys and those dead set against TRT, by all means put as much effort/thought into a solid PCT as your actual cycle. But I still think best case scenario is you "recover" back to typical 53 year old test levels, which is going to be on the low end of things (and he already said he tested clinically low 10 years ago). Why not strongly consider TRT, unless you're a genetic superman and have abnormally high test levels naturally. That said, I've benefitted tremendously from being on TRT close to 10 years now so maybe I'm a tad biased in that regard.

 

[Renew1]

I'll just say I'm over 40 and flattered you called me brah. Makes me feel like I've still got it!

I was a bit emphatic in my reply above, and I'm not totally against PCT. For younger guys and those dead set against TRT, by all means put as much effort/thought into a solid PCT as your actual cycle. But I still think best case scenario is you "recover" back to typical 53 year old test levels, which is going to be on the low end of things (and he already said he tested clinically low 10 years ago). Why not strongly consider TRT, unless you're a genetic superman and have abnormally high test levels naturally. That said, I've benefitted tremendously from being on TRT close to 10 years now so maybe I'm a tad biased in that regard.

I think most of us are biased in some way with our stance. Otherwise most of our answers would sound the same.

As for me personally, I'm not dead-set against TRT at all.
I actually went to get ALL of my #s checked, and they were all great (except D-3 was a little low).
Test was HIGH, and I'm no kid. LOL
But when I went in, I actually thought (with my symptoms) that I had finally killed my endogenous Test, and I was fine with whatever they said ... Including TRT.

Anyway ... Thanks for your perspective.