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First cycle (epi, halo, osta?)

Physiquenl

New member
Hello guys,

Started a topic a few days ago.
I have some more information now, and got some great help by yates84. I’m looking for a first cycle which give me gains, but don’t want an increase of bodyfat.

I have thought about more products, tr3st and dermatr3st were very interesting in my opinion but Yates recommended not to use this compouns in a first cycle. He suggested, beside Ep1stane, to do Halo. Which compound do you think is better for me according to my goals. I heard a lot of lethargie that comes along with epistane, can you do something about it?

OCT:
Epistane: 30/30/30/45/45
Arimacare: ? (is one bottle enought)
Taurine/pottasium/fish oil/milk thistle/hawhtorne berry?
Glucosamine/fish oil
Zink/magnesium
Vit D/C?
PCT:
Clomid or nolva?
Cortisol blocker?
Test booster/horney goat weed
Creatine

Read a lot but there is so much information on the internet that i’m looking for more insights. Since I have ten weeks between summer holiday and a holiday in October with parents in law i’m looking for a cycle which can be done in ten weeks, give me gains (aiming on like 5kg’s and less, same bodyfat or a little increase) and no water retention (superdrol?)

Read a lot about first cycles epistane but don’t have a lot of information about Halo and Ostarine. A (evolutionary) site claims to use ostarine as pct,

Thank you guys for help. I’m not here to ask stupid questions but to make it as save as possible with good results. In for log with before and after pics.
 
Subbed for other opinions
 
I ran Epi as my first cycle and it ended up going great, minimal sides with a lot of strength gains, for my dosing, I had it set at 30/45/45/45/45/45 and I used two bottles of Ar1macare pro at 4 caps a day throughout the cycle up until pct so 2 bottles was necessary for me
Overall on cycle looks good and for pct, I would suggest nolva at 40/40/20/20
I used Sup3r pct dosed at 4/4/3/3/2/1 by olympus labs so it lasts you two weeks longer than your serm and also daa is sufficient for a test booster.
This cycle would last you 12 weeks 6 on 6 off
I havent used either of the other two but other users on this forum suggested that epi was a good beginner cycle
 
xTrick said:
I ran Epi as my first cycle and it ended up going great, minimal sides with a lot of strength gains, for my dosing, I had it set at 30/45/45/45/45/45 and I used two bottles of Ar1macare pro at 4 caps a day throughout the cycle up until pct so 2 bottles was necessary for me
Overall on cycle looks good and for pct, I would suggest nolva at 40/40/20/20
I used Sup3r pct dosed at 4/4/3/3/2/1 by olympus labs so it lasts you two weeks longer than your serm and also daa is sufficient for a test booster.
This cycle would last you 12 weeks 6 on 6 off
I havent used either of the other two but other users on this forum suggested that epi was a good beginner cycle
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot! And what were your results? Can you decrease the off period to 4 weeks?
 
xTrick said:
I ran Epi as my first cycle and it ended up going great, minimal sides with a lot of strength gains, for my dosing, I had it set at 30/45/45/45/45/45 and I used two bottles of Ar1macare pro at 4 caps a day throughout the cycle up until pct so 2 bottles was necessary for me
Overall on cycle looks good and for pct, I would suggest nolva at 40/40/20/20
I used Sup3r pct dosed at 4/4/3/3/2/1 by olympus labs so it lasts you two weeks longer than your serm and also daa is sufficient for a test booster.
This cycle would last you 12 weeks 6 on 6 off
I havent used either of the other two but other users on this forum suggested that epi was a good beginner cycle
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this cycle. I love epi for lean, hard gains in size and strength. Definintely will need multiple bottles of ACpro (you'll def want the pro for the tudca) or CEL cycle assist + CEL tudca. Taurine is def a must as well as most people will start to get back/calf pumps around week 3-4. Lethargy could be a problem around that time as well... Personally, I don't think its such a long or ahrd cycle that you couldn't deal with it. You might drag getting out of bed most days at the end of the run but you'll still beast it in the gym for sure.

Pct is solid as well. I prefer nolva to clomid, personally, but many run either or even both. If nolva, 40/40/20/20; if clomid, 50/50/25/25 (or both - same doses). As far as the natty stuff for pct, I enjoy adding some natty anabolics to "keep the gains coming/staying". These are just a little boost while your hormones recover (sometimes mostly jsut peace of mind). I also like to add reduce XT for cortisol control as I had a very nasty pct at one time without it and never since. DAA is a no-go for me though as it gives me ugly sides itself and just makes me feel awful.
 
Physiquenl said:
Thanks a lot! And what were your results? Can you decrease the off period to 4 weeks?
Click to expand...

I ended up gaining a lean ten pounds of mass on this cycle and even through PCT, I managed to maintain almost all the mass I had gained. From what I learned, PCT for epi should be 6 weeks just because after the 4 weeks of your serm, you should still use the sup3r pct for two weeks longer to prevent what others call gyno rebound. However, I'm not sure if this is the only way to have your pct, perhaps you could get another members opinion on this as well
 
Yea either Halo or Epi for the first cycle is fine. I ran my first halo at 50/75/75/100/100/150 with no Test Base and i felt fine the entire time... gained about 8 poounds and lost like 4% body fat. Was a great run, and I'm sure epi will treat u similarly.
 
LGI damage control for liver. You can get 2 bottles of LGI for just about 1 bottle of OL. Epi run looks good. Taurine pwo if you start getting pumps. Controlled labs orange triad is a multi and a joint complex if youre looking for that. NOW omega-3's. IML ultra male, CEL pct assist, IML e-control.

Nolva: 20 - 20 -10 -10 - 0 - 0
e-control: 0 - 0 - 75 - 50 - 50 - 25
 
xTrick said:
I ended up gaining a lean ten pounds of mass on this cycle and even through PCT, I managed to maintain almost all the mass I had gained. From what I learned, PCT for epi should be 6 weeks just because after the 4 weeks of your serm, you should still use the sup3r pct for two weeks longer to prevent what others call gyno rebound. However, I'm not sure if this is the only way to have your pct, perhaps you could get another members opinion on this as well
Click to expand...

Thanks mate! Is a cortisol blocker needed afterwards to prevent gainloss
 
MTPMJM said:
Yea either Halo or Epi for the first cycle is fine. I ran my first halo at 50/75/75/100/100/150 with no Test Base and i felt fine the entire time... gained about 8 poounds and lost like 4% body fat. Was a great run, and I'm sure epi will treat u similarly.
Click to expand...

Wow would love results like that!
 
booneman77 said:
I totally agree with this cycle. I love epi for lean, hard gains in size and strength. Definintely will need multiple bottles of ACpro (you'll def want the pro for the tudca) or CEL cycle assist + CEL tudca. Taurine is def a must as well as most people will start to get back/calf pumps around week 3-4. Lethargy could be a problem around that time as well... Personally, I don't think its such a long or ahrd cycle that you couldn't deal with it. You might drag getting out of bed most days at the end of the run but you'll still beast it in the gym for sure.

Pct is solid as well. I prefer nolva to clomid, personally, but many run either or even both. If nolva, 40/40/20/20; if clomid, 50/50/25/25 (or both - same doses). As far as the natty stuff for pct, I enjoy adding some natty anabolics to "keep the gains coming/staying". These are just a little boost while your hormones recover (sometimes mostly jsut peace of mind). I also like to add reduce XT for cortisol control as I had a very nasty pct at one time without it and never since. DAA is a no-go for me though as it gives me ugly sides itself and just makes me feel awful.
Click to expand...

Which sides gave DAA to you? yates84 recommended me clomid since my background is low test levels.
 
Physiquenl said:
So which is better in your opinion winny or epi?

When I start Epi what would you recommend in macros?
Click to expand...
Epi. Winny is silly by itself.

If you don't already have your diet dialed, you shouldn't be running a cycle. The cycle is secondary to proper nutrition for your goals.

Physiquenl said:
Which sides gave DAA to you? yates84 recommended me clomid since my background is low test levels.
Click to expand...

Headaches, lethargy, general bad mood. Just crap feeling all the time.

Clomid is fine. It's usually the go to for low test reboots anyways so I agree that makes sense.
 
booneman77 said:
Epi. Winny is silly by itself.

If you don't already have your diet dialed, you shouldn't be running a cycle. The cycle is secondary to proper nutrition for your goals.



Headaches, lethargy, general bad mood. Just crap feeling all the time.

Clomid is fine. It's usually the go to for low test reboots anyways so I agree that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Ofcourse diet is on point but I'm curious for macros when on cycle? Finishing a mini cut now so don't know what to do then
 
Physiquenl said:
Thanks! Ofcourse diet is on point but I'm curious for macros when on cycle? Finishing a mini cut now so don't know what to do then
Click to expand...

Diet is not on point if you're trying to totally change your macros based on a random person's idea of what MIGHT work for YOU.

You should know what works for you. We can really only guess and hope.
 
Physiquenl said:
Thanks! Ofcourse diet is on point but I'm curious for macros when on cycle? Finishing a mini cut now so don't know what to do then
Click to expand...

Do you want to continue to cut or add a little bit of mass? I really only see two options with epistane, cut or recomp. Either keep your calories in a deficit or right around maintenance. Epistane isn't really geared toward a bulk imo
 
booneman77 said:
Diet is not on point if you're trying to totally change your macros based on a random person's idea of what MIGHT work for YOU.

You should know what works for you. We can really only guess and hope.
Click to expand...

I think we don't understand eacht other. Ussualy my diet is on point and everything is weighted. But because i'm new to ph and just asking if you get the best results in a deficit, maintenance or above maintenance it doesn't mean my diet is ***
 
yates84 said:
Do you want to continue to cut or add a little bit of mass? I really only see two options with epistane, cut or recomp. Either keep your calories in a deficit or right around maintenance. Epistane isn't really geared toward a bulk imo
Click to expand...

Little bit of mass, on logs other people said they increased more them ten pounds. But don't know if that is possible.
 
Physiquenl said:
I think we don't understand eacht other. Ussualy my diet is on point and everything is weighted. But because i'm new to ph and just asking if you get the best results in a deficit, maintenance or above maintenance it doesn't mean my diet is ***
Click to expand...

I never said your diet was bad, I'm just saying that if you're asking if you need to change it, then you're doing it wrong. You should have a goal in mind (cut bulk recomp etc) and a diet and compound that support that. Don't change the diet to support the compound, change the diet to suit the goal and add the compound as a helper
 
foofighter said:
Was thinking of trying epi but worried about the hairloss would halo be better any advice
Click to expand...

I recently read that due to its myotropic ratio Epi is 4.6 times LESS likely to cause androgenic side effects like hair loss and acne than Halo on mg by mg basis and I guess because mg dosages of Epi are usually half of those of Halo those sides are even less likely.
 
booneman77 said:
I never said your diet was bad, I'm just saying that if you're asking if you need to change it, then you're doing it wrong. You should have a goal in mind (cut bulk recomp etc) and a diet and compound that support that. Don't change the diet to support the compound, change the diet to suit the goal and add the compound as a helper
Click to expand...

Lean bulk
 
I've personally ran both.
EPI at 30,30,40,40,40,50
And halo at 50,75,75,75,100,100

Put on 14 pounds on EPI and 6lbs on halo. Both at the same caloric surplus. Strength gains were great on both but EPI blew halo away.

Both caused issues with sleep.
Back pumps were both taken care of with taurine. EPI caused more lethargy than halo if I recall. I also remember being way more shut down on EPI.
EPI is ROUGH on your joints.
EPI I got great strength and weight gain, Halo less sides, more strength, less weight.

I highly suggest some very good joint supports if you run EPI.
 
Physiquenl said:
I'm coming from Holland where it isn't illegal to own but it's only illegal to deal it.
Click to expand...

They still sell it in the UK but I don't know how your customs/import laws work. Up to you to try.
 
Physiquenl said:
One last question:

Epi, arimacare pro and super pct are al anti-estrogen, isn't that to much?
Click to expand...
Epi and armicare pro are fine together. You shouldn't be using all 3 at the same time anyway
 
Physiquenl said:
Since it costs a lot and arimacare is for 30 days, is it okay to run the first week on without or have a similar product which is cheaper?
Click to expand...

Don't go without, use a cheaper product if you have to but make sure you preload your cycle support for 2 weeks and run cycle support of some kind at least 2 weeks into pct. Your health isn't worth being cheap bro
 
yates84 said:
Don't go without, use a cheaper product if you have to but make sure you preload your cycle support for 2 weeks and run cycle support of some kind at least 2 weeks into pct. Your health isn't worth being cheap bro
Click to expand...

This. You should spend more on support and pct than the cycle itself. Don't get cheap and waste your organs.
 
can't get arimacare since it's sold out.

What is the difference between el1minate and ar1macare? and super pct is needed?
 
Physiquenl said:
can't get arimacare since it's sold out.

What is the difference between el1minate and ar1macare? and super pct is needed?
Click to expand...

elim and arim are completely different... elim is strictly arimistane IIRC and arim is an actual cycle support.
 
There are plenty of cycle support products out there - check Cycle Assist, Damage Control, plenty of others.

Otherwise you can just buy some OL TUDCA and run that alongside the Milk Thistle and NAC.
 
Physiquenl said:
And final question what about heart problems and blood pressure since i read that is a common side of epi
Click to expand...

that's what the cycle assist is for... do you not know what's in a good support supp?
 
If you want a good cycle assist Im a fan of organ shield for something fairly easy to find I used this with my first cycle which was actually h-drol.
 
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