First cycle AAS (PRO’s WELCOME!)

Abomination66

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I think you may have forgotten that OP took PH's in the past. In that case 250 will be underwhelming for him, guaranteed.
In your case, 450 is not 250. I got bloods after 250mg/w for 10 weeks and I had 850 total test in blood serum.
IMHO, best is to use test as a base -or up to 500 and stack on top more potent stuff.
Well funny thing here, ive actually started to use 400 mgs/week of the hcg vial and im already noticing morning wood, overall sense of wellbeing, more strenght etc my testosterone was normal before this, but i just noticed that i would be better off in the higher ranges i want to be high test forever (as long as possible) the thing is when i used ph’s my balls hurted like hell, and i was too underknowledged at the age of 18.

i took erase pro (OTC AI) when on and as pct because i was thinking of esteogen as my enemy and that was real stupid estrogen is good in normal ranges for men (strenght,joints,sexdrive etc) the thing im wondering about is that the ph’s might hurted my gonads but hurted my pituitary less and now the hcg might be restoring something in my gonads(?) idunno but i love the hcg even as a solo before i start my REAL testosterone cycle way more prepared than last time.
 

Abomination66

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Yup. Test plus oral. I got a decent amount of my first test cycle but I started at 400 with prop too, and ended at 650.

I’d rather see a good old fashioned test/500 cycle
Or Tbol or Var plus 300test cycle.
Something simple but effective.
Could you mention a good oral with low liver toxicity that will yield somekinda tbol gains ( hardening,definition) i can get the tbol right now if i want but also curious using some prohormone again the newer ones that claims to have 0 toxicity. thing im looking for is to keep the inner organs as healthy as possible and for natty test i will use hcg im considering staying on low doses forever. Iknow about the desentisation but i will try to pin as few and little each week to keep my body from getting too used to it.
 
hairygrandpa

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Well funny thing here, ive actually started to use 400 mgs/week of the hcg vial and im already noticing morning wood, overall sense of wellbeing, more strenght etc my testosterone was normal before this, but i just noticed that i would be better off in the higher ranges i want to be high test forever (as long as possible) the thing is when i used ph’s my balls hurted like hell, and i was too underknowledged at the age of 18.

i took erase pro (OTC AI) when on and as pct because i was thinking of esteogen as my enemy and that was real stupid estrogen is good in normal ranges for men (strenght,joints,sexdrive etc) the thing im wondering about is that the ph’s might hurted my gonads but hurted my pituitary less and now the hcg might be restoring something in my gonads(?) idunno but i love the hcg even as a solo before i start my REAL testosterone cycle way more prepared than last time.
Happens also when jumping on test. Here comes the bummer: After awhile on test, libido goes south -and the fiddling to get it back up begins. Mark my words. Open a thread when it happens and I may jump in to help get "willy" back up. In the meanwhile, enjoy!
 

Abomination66

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Happens also when jumping on test. Here comes the bummer: After awhile on test, libido goes south -and the fiddling to get it back up begins. Mark my words. Open a thread when it happens and I may jump in to help get "willy" back up. In the meanwhile, enjoy!
Yeah thats quite a bummer too.. so after a while on the hcg my libido will drop ? and for you on trt how do you keep the libido in check ? Ive read a post mentioning the best choice would be using prop 50-75 mg ED because the body is naturally producing test everyday so it puts the body in a more «natural» environment. But im also guessing this theory is short lived the body should desensitize after a short while.

also the guy on this forum using 75 mg tren and 500 test enth his libido dropped down to bottom zero BUT when he changed it up to using 75 mg test prop a day with the tren his libido went from zero to the extremes, this thing everybody talking about «tren dick» is either just extreme libido or non-existing, so im thinking if you inject test prop everyday while on a low dose tren , maybe with a shbg lowering compund like proviron you probably have the mentality of a rapist lol.
 
hairygrandpa

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Yeah thats quite a bummer too.. so after a while on the hcg my libido will drop ? and for you on trt how do you keep the libido in check ? Ive read a post mentioning the best choice would be using prop 50-75 mg ED because the body is naturally producing test everyday so it puts the body in a more «natural» environment. But im also guessing this theory is short lived the body should desensitize after a short while.

also the guy on this forum using 75 mg tren and 500 test enth his libido dropped down to bottom zero BUT when he changed it up to using 75 mg test prop a day with the tren his libido went from zero to the extremes, this thing everybody talking about «tren dick» is either just extreme libido or non-existing, so im thinking if you inject test prop everyday while on a low dose tren , maybe with a shbg lowering compund like proviron you probably have the mentality of a rapist lol.
IMHO, no matter what compound caused the high libido, the body fights to get into homeostasis.
As soon as the body figured out how to keep that unnatural surge in check, you perceive your normal libido as low after being "hyper-sexualized" from a compound. Think of it as this: After 6-7 weeks, any oral ceases to give results in the hypertrophy department (diminished returns). Same happens in the "willy" department.
You will be forced to switch compounds to get the body out of balance again.
 

Chrisbenches

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This sounds like a waste of time mate. Through some DBol or Drol in there and realize some gainz!
 
Matthersby

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will use hcg im considering staying on low doses forever. Iknow about the desentisation but i will try to pin as few and little each week to keep my body from getting too used to it.
Please don’t do that.
I’ll be honest, I noticed zero difference in recovery using HCG, its delicate and a pain in the ass, and there’s a lot of evidence it’s fully suited in just 1-2 blasts day 1 and 2 of PCT.
it’s not the miracle drug many think it is to be used long term.
TRT there is some benefit to it though but mainly cosmetic.
 
Matthersby

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Recovery to solid natural numbers should be goal #1 and as many of us realized too late, 8 week cycles with short esters and orals will help you with recovery over 16 week Deca or EQ cycles.
TRUST ME, if you do this long enough you’ll have time to use these other drugs because you’ll be on TRT. Avoid that as long as you can, and while I commend you using HCG, many have thought, “why don’t I just run this all the time and I’ll never get suppressed!” And it didn’t work out well for them
 

Abomination66

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Please don’t do that.
I’ll be honest, I noticed zero difference in recovery using HCG, its delicate and a pain in the ass, and there’s a lot of evidence it’s fully suited in just 1-2 blasts day 1 and 2 of PCT.
it’s not the miracle drug many think it is to be used long term.
TRT there is some benefit to it though but mainly cosmetic.
Any dangers staying on low dose for a long time matt ?
 

Abomination66

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Tits, blood clots and likely later on ED. IMHO, just cycle it to be sure.
Alright thanks. i think a 10 week run wont hurt too bad though staying on 350-400 a week, i remember when using ph’s i did not get gyno but that also depends if these substances converted to estrogen or not..

i remember when i used erase pro my dick literally died out because the lack of estrogen, and when coming off my nipples got kinda puff prob because of estrogen rebound i also had ED issues when using mk-677 and i did find out that this was because of prolactin as soon as i threw in dopamine with the mk my boners were full and raging hard again lol, im assuming this might be an issue with the hcg aswell.
 

jtbull

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Can you get away with say 400 test and 400 deca without caber? Also this will sound dumb but mg per mg as price is a bit different which provides better strength gains deca or eq? or instead of 400/400 would test at 800 per week be better or way too many sides? I did not really notice any at 400 per week or 450 per week.
 
Mathb33

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Can you get away with say 400 test and 400 deca without caber? Also this will sound dumb but mg per mg as price is a bit different which provides better strength gains deca or eq? or instead of 400/400 would test at 800 per week be better or way too many sides? I did not really notice any at 400 per week or 450 per week.
The story about caber absolutely needed with deca is stupid bro. As long as your E is in check your prolactin won’t get out of range. The blast I’m finishing right now had NPP AT 600mg and I never needed anything like caber. I made sure I controlled my estrogen with a close look at my AI / bloodworks and I was fine. Some people are prone to estrogen going crazy and prolactin will follow will all. You should always have caber on hand though, obviously.
 
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Mathb33

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Also if I can suggest something, you should always choose NPP over deca. It’s just superior, less bloat, clears faster in your body, less sides overall. Less time required on it also.
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

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Also if I can suggest something, you should always choose NPP over deca. It’s just superior, less bloat, clears faster in your body, less sides overall. Less time required on it also.
NPP shits on Deca.
 
Matthersby

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If I were saving NPP from a burning building, I would laugh and leave Deca behind to burn alive. As long as npp made it out ok, that’s all that matters.
 

Abomination66

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Can you get away with say 400 test and 400 deca without caber? Also this will sound dumb but mg per mg as price is a bit different which provides better strength gains deca or eq? or instead of 400/400 would test at 800 per week be better or way too many sides? I did not really notice any at 400 per week or 450 per week.
Lol this thread is becoming more like an forum, i would leave the deca,

caber is a scary drug imo when it comes to the blood valve system you could end up with serious issues with caber, test at 800 for u we really dont know, nobody here does, it can put you in a little over natural range or 5-6 times higher i have doubled my testosterone with 250 mgs of test and feel unreal. so go get your bloods done imo.
 
chem.jr.

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Also if I can suggest something, you should always choose NPP over deca. It’s just superior, less bloat, clears faster in your body, less sides overall. Less time required on it also.
NPP shits on Deca.
This. Never ran deca. Even my first time around i went with npp and even though it meant 1.5-2ml per week instead of 1 it was so worth it. Got a vial of deca dropped on me and put it in the middle of a cycle and was so much crappier/ sloppier than npp. Crazy how short acting esters make such a difference. The older i get the more i like shorter acting esters, except for my standard 200mg of trt that is always* run. Thats the only long ester i will run and am actually enjoying the extra estro bc gains are easier. Anyways- NPP > Deca
 

jtbull

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whats a good amount of npp? Is it mg per mg like deca? was thinking 300-400mg deca.
 
Matthersby

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whats a good amount of npp? Is it mg per mg like deca? was thinking 300-400mg deca.
For some reason, I don’t see monster gains on nandrolones, they seem mild to me. So 300 would be comfortable and helpful but I see no reason you can’t push it after week 4 to 450-500. I still get no sides at 525 so this time I may go 600. 350 is a solid starting point just a little boost in gains.
 

CroLifter

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So as i see that this is the topic of conversation and i wont take away from the thread a lot...

500 test vs (300 test 200 npp) in terms of strength/muscle gains?

a quick question for @Matthersby ?
 

Abomination66

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So as i see that this is the topic of conversation and i wont take away from the thread a lot...

500 test vs (300 test 200 npp) in terms of strength/muscle gains?

a quick question for @Matthersby ?
300 test 200 npp i would assume blows the 500 test...
 
Matthersby

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So as i see that this is the topic of conversation and i wont take away from the thread a lot...

500 test vs (300 test 200 npp) in terms of strength/muscle gains?

a quick question for @Matthersby ?
Npp is stronger. I just go 200test / npp500
 

CroLifter

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Npp is stronger. I just go 200test / npp500
That is interesting. You guys are speaking from experience so i respect that.

studies done on test vs deca show that at 300mg each test is stronger at promoting strength gains while they are similar in size gains.

but i guess that in the case of test + npp 1+1=3
 
Matthersby

Matthersby

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That is interesting. You guys are speaking from experience so i respect that.

studies done on test vs deca show that at 300mg each test is stronger at promoting strength gains while they are similar in size gains.

but i guess that in the case of test + npp 1+1=3
Ok. Studies are one things, years and years of collective anecdotal data are entirely another.
- we know you don’t run nandrolones without test or you get nasty I wanted sides due to no test base. How much test is up to each individual. Collectively, most of us have realized a TRT dose would suffice. Something around 200. Typically no sides present at that dose.
- let’s say based on your individual situation, your body can handle a total of 900-1000mg total androgens floating around your body before everything is saturated and sides increase dramatically.
- This one is up for a lot of debate but MANY of us have realized high doses of test exacerbate sides from stronger compounds.
- so ya, you could do 50/50 split of 450 test 450 npp. But if NPP is 1.25x stronger than test, wouldn’t you want to do 300/600?
I know I would, and I KNOW I’ll have less issues and more gains because I’ve tried it both ways.
 

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