First cycle AAS (PRO’s WELCOME!)

Abomination66

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So im about to do my first AAS cycle and going to share the compounds im going to use with you and the reasoning behind it all. And try to stay as healthy as possible trying to do so.

STATS:5’11 180 lbs 17%bf.Age 24. Consistently training for 6 years.

TESTOSTERONE MIX
enth,cyp,prop) 125 mg monday/125mg thursday so a total of 250 mg per week. Dont go here telling me that this is a trt dose this is going to double my testosterone (seen the studies) and also seems way healthier than doing 500 mgs/week which only will cause me to a higher AI dose and higher chance of raised hemoglobin,water retention, supression etc.

AROMASIN
As an AI i have set my cards on aromasin over arimidex, the reason behind this is that it is an suicidal ai unlike arimidex which does not cause estrogen rebound (from what ive read) it also seems a healthier alternative concerning lipids. What would be a good dosage concerning aromatizing from the hcg (500 ius/250 mgs test?)


HCG (HMG?)
On cycle to preserve LH and testicular function ive landed on hcg at 500 iu’s a week which are going to keep my gonads going strong but im also questioning HMG as it preserves both lh AND fsh and from some research i found out that the desentisation in hmg is far less than hcg but not as strong and quite expensive.

PCT
TOREMIFENE (triptorelin?)

ive landed on toremifene because i absolutely hate nolva pct it made me horrible after my first prohormone run i felt like absolute dogshit on it, so maybe toremifene would be a better option as for clomid seems like an even worse pct drug than nolvadex. the thought of triptorelin seems also interesting if anyone has experience let me know ! :)

In all this im also including a lot of iron rich foods potassium intake high to combat water retention vitamins and minerals just for general wellbeing.

So i hope i can get someone to fill me out on this subject what i should do and should not do. Cheers!.
 

Abomination66

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Can somebody help me on this does it seem ok ?
 
Matthersby

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You don’t seem to have any questions. Plus you stated not to tell you your dose is too low, so no one told you that it’s too low.
But I’m sure you’ll enjoy it and will be back for more.
Pretty standard.
Test aromasin hcg Torem.
I wouldn’t anticipate anything going crazy wrong.
 
hairygrandpa

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Dont go here telling me that this is a trt dose this is going to double my testosterone (seen the studies) and also seems way healthier than doing 500 mgs/week
-250mg/w = Suppressing HPTA for negligible gains. 500mg/w makes more sense
If insisting on 250mg/w:
-No AI needed if you use Proviron at 75mg/d, inhibits estro sides and frees test from binding to SHBG = more gains.
 

Abomination66

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-250mg/w = Suppressing HPTA for negligible gains. 500mg/w makes more sense
If insisting on 250mg/w:
-No AI needed if you use Proviron at 75mg/d, inhibits estro sides and frees test from binding to SHBG = more gains.
Ok but other than that does the cycle seem fine ? Im still insisting on taking 250 still though, i was responding to prohormones like no other and it was without a test base (idiotic iknow)
So im gonna see what just pure test can give me. Im gonna post pictures too thanks for the reply btw im considering proviron aswell.
 
hairygrandpa

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Ok but other than that does the cycle seem fine ? Im still insisting on taking 250 still though, i was responding to prohormones like no other and it was without a test base (idiotic iknow)
So im gonna see what just pure test can give me. Im gonna post pictures too thanks for the reply btw im considering proviron aswell.
You will be underwhelmed. Test is one of the least anabolic compounds if compared with most PH's. Having doubled the numbers of test in blood doesn't mean a thing. Unless you free up test with something like proviron, 250 is just a base to stack on, especially if you did PH's in the past.
Cycle looks sound as it is. Consider adding a oral like t-bol, var, wini and you have yourself a nice ride.
 
Godstrength

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-250mg/w = Suppressing HPTA for negligible gains. 500mg/w makes more sense
If insisting on 250mg/w:
-No AI needed if you use Proviron at 75mg/d, inhibits estro sides and frees test from binding to SHBG = more gains.
I think a happy medium of 375 mg/week is warranted. That's a good working dose and will bring good gains first cycle if its dosed properly.

Op I do think 250 will put you above your natural t levels but it will be negligible in terms of results in the gym and growth. Around 400ish is still a low side working dose but an effective cycle dose. I know you said you don't want to hear this but you're asking guys more knowledgeable than you who have done this what they think.
 

Abomination66

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I think a happy medium of 375 mg/week is warranted. That's a good working dose and will bring good gains first cycle if its dosed properly.

Op I do think 250 will put you above your natural t levels but it will be negligible in terms of results in the gym and growth. Around 400ish is still a low side working dose but an effective cycle dose. I know you said you don't want to hear this but you're asking guys more knowledgeable than you who have done this what they think.
Well knowledgeable is real hard to tell and each body responds differently, rich piana has also done this many times was he knowledgeable ? No. He was an absolute idiot and big abuser of AAS. He was thinking since he’s so big and strong everything he said goes, and many guys ended up hurting themself cuz of this jackass.

There are 2 types of people number 1 is the people just going with the roided guy in the neighbourhoods opinion like 500 mgs test and arimidex on cycle nolva for pct which in my experience is total bs. Or us other reading a TONNE of information before we try to do this as safe as possible. I am one of those, im not just thinking gains wohoo, im doing this sole and only to see how my body reacts to aas, and of course some nice and decent gains.
 
Godstrength

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Well knowledgeable is real hard to tell and each body responds differently, rich piana has also done this many times was he knowledgeable ? No. He was an absolute idiot and big abuser of AAS. He was thinking since he’s so big and strong everything he said goes, and many guys ended up hurting themself cuz of this jackass.

There are 2 types of people number 1 is the people just going with the roided guy in the neighbourhoods opinion like 500 mgs test and arimidex on cycle nolva for pct which in my experience is total bs. Or us other reading a TONNE of information before we try to do this as safe as possible. I am one of those, im not just thinking gains wohoo, im doing this sole and only to see how my body reacts to aas, and of course some nice and decent gains.
Ok my first cycle was 250 mg/week of mexican testosterona enanthate. For 10 weeks. Was it decent? Yeah I shoulda done a little more imo.

My cycle doses are moderate as are @hairygrandpa

So if you're dead set run the 250.
 
hairygrandpa

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Well knowledgeable is real hard to tell and each body responds differently, rich piana has also done this many times was he knowledgeable ? No. He was an absolute idiot and big abuser of AAS. He was thinking since he’s so big and strong everything he said goes, and many guys ended up hurting themself cuz of this jackass.

There are 2 types of people number 1 is the people just going with the roided guy in the neighbourhoods opinion like 500 mgs test and arimidex on cycle nolva for pct which in my experience is total bs. Or us other reading a TONNE of information before we try to do this as safe as possible. I am one of those, im not just thinking gains wohoo, im doing this sole and only to see how my body reacts to aas, and of course some nice and decent gains.
As @Godstrength said, we both are no mainstream bro-science followers. Less works good -but you have to be rational. 250mg test/w ALONE is enough to suppress your cojones -but not enough to reap optimal benefits.
You are using HCG and all ancillaries for a meager cruise dose of test, that is IMHO a waste.
You could up your natural production with a clomid cycle to the levels 250mg test could do.
 
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hairygrandpa

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Here what I consider to be a good recomp cycle for someone like you, who used PH's before:

-250mg/w test for 12 weeks
-tbol at 40mg/d 40/40/40/40/40
-proviron at 50mg/d throughout 12 weeks
-anavar at 30mg/d week 9-12
Probably no AI needed.
HCG if you want during cycle.

I would do a clomid PCT, instead of torem. Why? because torem is mostly available as RC, you never know what you got.

Also, clomid PCT different than others would do, like:

week 1-2 50mg/d
week 3-6 50mg eod
week 7-10 25mg e3d
for 2 weeks after last dose of clomid: exemestane 12.5mg e3d
 
Matthersby

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As @Godstrength said, we both are no mainstream bro-science followers. Less works good -but you have to be rational. 250mg test/w ALONE is enough to suppress your cojones -but not enough to reap optimal benefits.
You are using HCG and all ancillaries for a meager cruise dose of test, that is IMHO a waste.
You could up your natural production with a clomid cycle to the levels 250mg test could do.
This is where I’m at with this.
You want to make the most out of suppression. 250-750 makes no difference to shutdown, but 750 will yield gains that may actually be noticeable.
You’re shut down either way.
 
Mathb33

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When you first posted I came here and wrote a long paragraph. I ended up erasing it because I thought you looked like the guy that doesn’t want help or answers because he’ll do whatever he wants anyways and I think I was right. Just do your 250mg test only cycle, you’ll get some experience with time, you’ll learn and everything will make sense for you in a year or so.
 
Matthersby

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When you first posted I came here and wrote a long paragraph. I ended up erasing it because I thought you looked like the guy that doesn’t want help or answers because he’ll do whatever he wants anyways and I think I was right. Just do your 250mg test only cycle, you’ll get some experience with time, you’ll learn and everything will make sense for you in a year or so.
I remember doing test only run 2009. I’d used a lot of orals from 2002 to then.
I did it exactly right like OP. Hcg, AI, Serm plus 2-3 natty boosters. And all sorts of support supps.
I thought for sure I was going to be Mr Olympia in 12 weeks. I ate my ass off every 3 hours.
Gained 11lbs and I’m pretty sure not one person noticed I was using PEDs. And I was using 2.5x his dosage.

Later in the year I ran epistane and m-lmg with a little prop.
Put on 21lbs.
I’ve never cared to use test for anything else since then but to maintain function at a TRT dose.
If anything, both OP and I both gained experience from the first injectable Test cycle, but his conclusion will likely be the same as all of ours.
 
hairygrandpa

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In all honesty, I had not one single cycle that gave me the "click- your body looks suddenly different" results.
Where I am now is a sum of a lot of cruising and blasting over the years. Note, a blast is something like:
-Test: 400mg/w
-any oral at a moderate dose
-a PDE-5 inhibitor (Cialis/Viagra)
-10 IU insulin pre workout (I know, Insulin = the devil, say the guys shooting UGL gear and Chinese peptides, laughable)
Testosterone is for me a base to build on -or a cruise. Would never use it to actually gain muscles -and never above 500mg/w.
 

Abomination66

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As @Godstrength said, we both are no mainstream bro-science followers. Less works good -but you have to be rational. 250mg test/w ALONE is enough to suppress your cojones -but not enough to reap optimal benefits.
You are using HCG and all ancillaries for a meager cruise dose of test, that is IMHO a waste.
You could up your natural production with a clomid cycle to the levels 250mg test could do.
ok you also do know clomid supresses natural igf-1 and growth hormone right imo some of the worst side effects, the thought is of raising the cycle to lets say 400 is enogh to spike hemoglobin levels through the roof, also with higher dosages comes higher supression and side effects (which i already know you know of course)
 

Abomination66

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I remember doing test only run 2009. I’d used a lot of orals from 2002 to then.
I did it exactly right like OP. Hcg, AI, Serm plus 2-3 natty boosters. And all sorts of support supps.
I thought for sure I was going to be Mr Olympia in 12 weeks. I ate my ass off every 3 hours.
Gained 11lbs and I’m pretty sure not one person noticed I was using PEDs. And I was using 2.5x his dosage.

Later in the year I ran epistane and m-lmg with a little prop.
Put on 21lbs.
I’ve never cared to use test for anything else since then but to maintain function at a TRT dose.
If anything, both OP and I both gained experience from the first injectable Test cycle, but his conclusion will likely be the same as all of ours.
Interesting, the thing is that 250 seems to be a fine dose ive heard people are gaining actually more from a 4 week tbol cycle other than a 8 week 250 mg test cycle, BUT also having liver issues and the other sides from the tbol then imo you are adding more stress on the body, but also more lean gains/definition, the thing is when i ran prohormones i was expecting this BOOM feeling but no, i was only supressing myself and that was because i was an idiot for not running a test base with it, im really looking for this high test feeling i prob had when i was 18-20 yrs old natural. What do you think of a good oral i could add in ? dont want to do winstrol as i have heard are bad for joints...
 
hairygrandpa

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ok you also do know clomid supresses natural igf-1 and growth hormone right imo some of the worst side effects, the thought is of raising the cycle to lets say 400 is enogh to spike hemoglobin levels through the roof, also with higher dosages comes higher supression and side effects (which i already know you know of course)


I'm out.
 

Abomination66

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Here what I consider to be a good recomp cycle for someone like you, who used PH's before:

-250mg/w test for 12 weeks
-tbol at 40mg/d 40/40/40/40/40
-proviron at 50mg/d throughout 12 weeks
-anavar at 30mg/d week 9-12
Probably no AI needed.
HCG if you want during cycle.

I would do a clomid PCT, instead of torem. Why? because torem is mostly available as RC, you never know what you got.

Also, clomid PCT different than others would do, like:

week 1-2 50mg/d
week 3-6 50mg eod
week 7-10 25mg e3d
for 2 weeks after last dose of clomid: exemestane 12.5mg e3d
Yeah considering the tbol but for 5 weeks you mean ? At the end or the beginning ? Also tbol also lowers shbg that would make free test to be floating around. And yes i only did 2 PH cycles in the past so... and by the way i got my roidtest and have tested the torem its nearly pharm grade but in raw form. Now i only need to know how many mg per capsule if im gonna make each one at 2 mg.
 
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Abomination66

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You don’t seem to have any questions. Plus you stated not to tell you your dose is too low, so no one told you that it’s too low.
But I’m sure you’ll enjoy it and will be back for more.
Pretty standard.
Test aromasin hcg Torem.
I wouldn’t anticipate anything going crazy wrong.
No, the question is only if the cycle is good to go like any fine adjustments and so on. im going on for like 4-8 weeks on this if i want i could add some tbol at the end of it.
 
Matthersby

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ok you also do know clomid supresses natural igf-1 and growth hormone right imo some of the worst side effects, the thought is of raising the cycle to lets say 400 is enogh to spike hemoglobin levels through the roof, also with higher dosages comes higher supression and side effects (which i already know you know of course)
Congrats on doing some reading.
Now it’s time to go out and gain some real world application.
You’re in the rabbit hole of science right now.
Everyone here knows what these drugs do medically/biologically, what they lower and what they raise, because we’ve used them 60-70 damn times. Why in the hell are you on about hemoglobin? I’ve been on your proposed dose of testosterone for 3.5 years and my H&H has STILL not gone out of range yet.
Just pick a freaking SERM that will work best. That’s Clomid or Toremifene.

Your ONLY goal here is to put on as much muscle as you can in 12 weeks or lose as much fat as you can, and THEN try to keep a significant amount of it by administering a post cycle You do that by dosing a serm despite side effects, despite IGF-1 lowering, despite anything you may read endlessly for hours and hours a day.

You aren’t going to reinvent the wheel here. We’ve already been through this research phase you’re in right now and don’t care about all the little factoids you keep putting up.
You’re going to put on 6lbs and then lose 4 of them by overthinking this cycle to death with your own nonsense discrediting decades of anecdotal accounts.
Just do the cycle you want and stop asking what we think. Because we think this cycle is a pointless snoozefest that you’re going to suppress yourself for 3 months for.
 

Abomination66

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Congrats on doing some reading.
Now it’s time to go out and gain some real world application.
You’re in the rabbit hole of science right now.
Everyone here knows what these drugs do medically/biologically, what they lower and what they raise, because we’ve used them 60-70 damn times. Why in the hell are you on about hemoglobin? I’ve been on your proposed dose of testosterone for 3.5 years and my H&H has STILL not gone out of range yet.
Just pick a freaking SERM that will work best. That’s Clomid or Toremifene.

Your ONLY goal here is to put on as much muscle as you can in 12 weeks or lose as much fat as you can, and THEN try to keep a significant amount of it by administering a post cycle You do that by dosing a serm despite side effects, despite IGF-1 lowering, despite anything you may read endlessly for hours and hours a day.

You aren’t going to reinvent the wheel here. We’ve already been through this research phase you’re in right now and don’t care about all the little factoids you keep putting up.
You’re going to put on 6lbs and then lose 4 of them by overthinking this cycle to death with your own nonsense discrediting decades of anecdotal accounts.
Just do the cycle you want and stop asking what we think. Because we think this cycle is a pointless snoozefest that you’re going to suppress yourself for 3 months for.
no not everyone on this forums knows everything, and if you have been on my proposed dose and your hemoglobin is fine then what happens when you go higher ?
And who are you to know if im gonna put on 6lbs or 20 lbs everybody is different maybe not so dumb starting lower now higher later or matbe adding an oral into the cycle just to see how i feel on the test first ? and why be such a bitch on menopause for me asking questions about the cycle ? I have not attacked anyone on here so the respect is equally served.
 

Abomination66

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Congrats on doing some reading.
Now it’s time to go out and gain some real world application.
You’re in the rabbit hole of science right now.
Everyone here knows what these drugs do medically/biologically, what they lower and what they raise, because we’ve used them 60-70 damn times. Why in the hell are you on about hemoglobin? I’ve been on your proposed dose of testosterone for 3.5 years and my H&H has STILL not gone out of range yet.
Just pick a freaking SERM that will work best. That’s Clomid or Toremifene.

Your ONLY goal here is to put on as much muscle as you can in 12 weeks or lose as much fat as you can, and THEN try to keep a significant amount of it by administering a post cycle You do that by dosing a serm despite side effects, despite IGF-1 lowering, despite anything you may read endlessly for hours and hours a day.

You aren’t going to reinvent the wheel here. We’ve already been through this research phase you’re in right now and don’t care about all the little factoids you keep putting up.
You’re going to put on 6lbs and then lose 4 of them by overthinking this cycle to death with your own nonsense discrediting decades of anecdotal accounts.
Just do the cycle you want and stop asking what we think. Because we think this cycle is a pointless snoozefest that you’re going to suppress yourself for 3 months for.
no not everyone on this forums knows everything, and if you have been on my proposed dose and your hemoglobin is fine then what happens when you go higher ?
And who are you to know if im gonna put on 6lbs or 20 lbs everybody is different maybe not so dumb starting lower now higher later or matbe adding an oral into the cycle just to see how i feel on the test first ? and why be such a bitch on menopause for me asking questions about the cycle ? I have not attacked anyone on here so the respect is equally served.
 

Abomination66

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Congrats on doing some reading.
Now it’s time to go out and gain some real world application.
You’re in the rabbit hole of science right now.
Everyone here knows what these drugs do medically/biologically, what they lower and what they raise, because we’ve used them 60-70 damn times. Why in the hell are you on about hemoglobin? I’ve been on your proposed dose of testosterone for 3.5 years and my H&H has STILL not gone out of range yet.
Just pick a freaking SERM that will work best. That’s Clomid or Toremifene.

Your ONLY goal here is to put on as much muscle as you can in 12 weeks or lose as much fat as you can, and THEN try to keep a significant amount of it by administering a post cycle You do that by dosing a serm despite side effects, despite IGF-1 lowering, despite anything you may read endlessly for hours and hours a day.

You aren’t going to reinvent the wheel here. We’ve already been through this research phase you’re in right now and don’t care about all the little factoids you keep putting up.
You’re going to put on 6lbs and then lose 4 of them by overthinking this cycle to death with your own nonsense discrediting decades of anecdotal accounts.
Just do the cycle you want and stop asking what we think. Because we think this cycle is a pointless snoozefest that you’re going to suppress yourself for 3 months for.
no not everyone on this forums knows everything, and if you have been on my proposed dose and your hemoglobin is fine then what happens when you go higher ?
And who are you to know if im gonna put on 6lbs or 20 lbs everybody is different maybe not so dumb starting lower now higher later or matbe adding an oral into the cycle just to see how i feel on the test first ? and why be such a bitch on menopause for me asking questions about the cycle ? I have not attacked anyone on here so the respect is equally served.
 

Abomination66

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Congrats on doing some reading.
Now it’s time to go out and gain some real world application.
You’re in the rabbit hole of science right now.
Everyone here knows what these drugs do medically/biologically, what they lower and what they raise, because we’ve used them 60-70 damn times. Why in the hell are you on about hemoglobin? I’ve been on your proposed dose of testosterone for 3.5 years and my H&H has STILL not gone out of range yet.
Just pick a freaking SERM that will work best. That’s Clomid or Toremifene.

Your ONLY goal here is to put on as much muscle as you can in 12 weeks or lose as much fat as you can, and THEN try to keep a significant amount of it by administering a post cycle You do that by dosing a serm despite side effects, despite IGF-1 lowering, despite anything you may read endlessly for hours and hours a day.

You aren’t going to reinvent the wheel here. We’ve already been through this research phase you’re in right now and don’t care about all the little factoids you keep putting up.
You’re going to put on 6lbs and then lose 4 of them by overthinking this cycle to death with your own nonsense discrediting decades of anecdotal accounts.
Just do the cycle you want and stop asking what we think. Because we think this cycle is a pointless snoozefest that you’re going to suppress yourself for 3 months for.
no not everyone on this forums knows everything, and if you have been on my proposed dose and your hemoglobin is fine then what happens when you go higher ?
And who are you to know if im gonna put on 6lbs or 20 lbs everybody is different maybe not so dumb starting lower now higher later or matbe adding an oral into the cycle just to see how i feel on the test first ? and why be such a bitch on menopause for me asking questions about the cycle ? I have not attacked anyone on here so the respect is equally served.
 
Matthersby

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maybe not so dumb starting lower now higher later or matbe adding an oral into the cycle just to see how i feel on the test first ? .
It’s not dumb to be safe.
What I and about 4 other guys are saying is that is a really low dose that you are going to suppress yourself for.
You don’t get unlimited cycles. You get a handful of them and then you don’t recover one day and end up like the majority of us on TRT. If you are going to shut yourself down for 3 months, make it worth it with a dose that’s shown to be ridiculously safe and may actually yield some results.
I’m not a mean guy, I just get confused when I read a “tell me what you think of my cycle” thread and a half dozen of us tell you to bump your dose up, and then you start arguing about hemoglobin and lowered IGF-1. Nobody notices slightly lowered IGF-1, I make crazy gains guzzling 30 nolvadex a day. And NOBODY drops dead from a blood clot on their first test cycle. So hemoglobin is not a factor for you. Cruise for 4 years and then we’ll talk H&H.

Add Tbol if you don’t want to go above 250/ Test a week.

And you know I have another suspicion too.
A lot of times when guys are super adamant about a low dose, it’s because they have 1 vial and no resources to get more and want to convince themselves it will still suffice as a cycle. You see it a lot with orals, hell I’ve done it 10 years ago. I’ve been too cheap to buy 100 more tabs of Winnie and want to convince myself that a 25mg/day cycle will still work as a cycle. I’m sure that’s not the case with you, kudos on being cautious and doing the anti-BostinLoyd-thing....

And if you think about it, we kind of are menopausal from a hormonal standpoint.
 
Mathb33

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Dude you wanted experienced people to join in and give their thoughts and now that you have one of the most respected guy out here helping you but you’re denying everything he says wtf is wrong with you? "Who are you to say I’m gonna gain 6 lbs and not 20 lbs everyone is different" on 500mg test you would not add 20 lbs of LEAN TISSUE. NOT. HAPPENING. On 500 mg and a big bulk you might end up adding 12lbs lean tissue and 8 lbs of fat to get to your 20 lbs(lol) but forget about adding 20 lbs of muscle lmao TEST IS WEAK. 250mg will give you a little recomp effect, it’l boost Your strength a little, will boost your libido, you’re gonna add a few lbs, THATS IT. And if you end up adding 15-20lbs well most of it is fucking fat. Also what is this non sense you’re talking about regarding suppression? 250mg will have you SHUTDOWN just like 150mg would or just like 500mg would. SHUTDOWN. the only thing you’re right about is when you’re talking about your CBC (blood count) where your hemoglobins and hematocrit MIGHT elevate more on 500mg than it would on 250mg. Your system is gonna take a hit from that 250mg just like it would on 500mg. The goal is to make the MOST out of the cycle and then return to normal and healthy levels. It’s okay to be concerned about your hematocrit level go donate blood towards the middle of your cycle that’s it. But TBH Your blood count is not something you should worry about unless you’re on fucking trt for life like us because after your cycle everything will come back to normal.if you’re scared of these sides DO NOT DO STEROIDS. a friend of mine has to donate blood every 3 months for his hematocrit to remain in range while mine stay well in range up to 400mg. And when mine get out of range I go donate blood end of story.
 

Abomination66

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It’s not dumb to be safe.
What I and about 4 other guys are saying is that is a really low dose that you are going to suppress yourself for.
You don’t get unlimited cycles. You get a handful of them and then you don’t recover one day and end up like the majority of us on TRT. If you are going to shut yourself down for 3 months, make it worth it with a dose that’s shown to be ridiculously safe and may actually yield some results.
I’m not a mean guy, I just get confused when I read a “tell me what you think of my cycle” thread and a half dozen of us tell you to bump your dose up, and then you start arguing about hemoglobin and lowered IGF-1. Nobody notices slightly lowered IGF-1, I make crazy gains guzzling 30 nolvadex a day. And NOBODY drops dead from a blood clot on their first test cycle. So hemoglobin is not a factor for you. Cruise for 4 years and then we’ll talk H&H.

Add Tbol if you don’t want to go above 250/ Test a week.

And you know I have another suspicion too.
A lot of times when guys are super adamant about a low dose, it’s because they have 1 vial and no resources to get more and want to convince themselves it will still suffice as a cycle. You see it a lot with orals, hell I’ve done it 10 years ago. I’ve been too cheap to buy 100 more tabs of Winnie and want to convince myself that a 25mg/day cycle will still work as a cycle. I’m sure that’s not the case with you, kudos on being cautious and doing the anti-BostinLoyd-thing....

And if you think about it, we kind of are menopausal from a hormonal standpoint.
Hahah that makes alot of sense tbh, how is it like being on trt btw ? I had blood drawn after my ph run/runs and my test could have been higher i was normal but i have been constantly fatigued after i did them tbh,do you feel good on trt ? What was the age you started doing trt ? btw im not an american so my english is like 8/10 sorry if we had any misunderstandings.
 
Matthersby

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We wouldn’t be writing paragraph after paragraph to you if we were wanting to be nasty and rude to you, or didn’t care. I want to see everyone have good experiences with this stuff, just like I did, when I came on here 10 years ago I was showered with good information with nothing asked for in return.
I think you can get more out of your cycle, and I’m trying to do what was done for me by giving you my experiences as another perspective.
If I was condescending, I apologize; you shouldn’t be persecuted for being cautious.

Just consider anecdotal accounts just as informative as the science you are reading.
In a laboratory, every piece of data can show lowered IGF-1, but if 20 of us are staying otherwise, the science doesn’t matter.
This is simple, we want to gain muscle and lose fat. Many have tried to find other ways, but all we have that we know works, is cycle + AI + pct with serm.
I hovered around 600 on my first test only cycle and my labs were spotless. I gained about 1/3 of what I would on Superdrol and a little Trest. But I learned a lot and now I don’t run test high anymore.

But if I could go back, WITHOUT A DOUBT, I would crank that dose up to 750, since I shut myself down for 3 months regardless. Yes, maybe the first 4 weeks, play it safe with 250-450, but if nipples, nuts, and blood pressure are good, get the most of that cycle.
 
Matthersby

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Hahah that makes alot of sense tbh, how is it like being on trt btw ? I had blood drawn after my ph run/runs and my test could have been higher i was normal but i have been constantly fatigued after i did them tbh,do you feel good on trt ? What was the age you started doing trt ? btw im not an american so my english is like 8/10 sorry if we had any misunderstandings.
I started officially in 2015. I do it Doctor monitored currently although he doesn’t prescribe me. He simply works w me to make sure I’m healthy and keep my labs in order.
I love it, but I’m 40 and couldn’t imagine life without it.
However, if I could have cycled a little more responsibly and prolonged TRT until 45, I would have. I think a lot of us don’t admit it, but rely heavily on cialis for whatever reasons. And I impulsively take aspirin for fear of blood clots since I’ve been on a while. Even though I just had labs done 5 weeks ago and they were damn near perfect.
My quality of life for a 40 year old is top notch. My fear of dying prematurely is unfortunately a bit high. I love this hobby though so I take the risk and after I finish my goal of competing next April, I’m going to spend a year on 200mg a week and getting my health really dialed in. No blasts for along time after April. I want to live along time and getting swole is becoming less of a priority, being a successful man and good father is my biggest priority. But it will plague my existence if I don’t do one contest. I’ve wanted to for along time.

Try to keep your cycles 10 weeks or less. Use short esters and do 8 weeks runs after this 12 week test run. You get just a much out of them with less long term suppression.
 

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I started officially in 2015. I do it Doctor monitored currently although he doesn’t prescribe me. He simply works w me to make sure I’m healthy and keep my labs in order.
I love it, but I’m 40 and couldn’t imagine life without it.
However, if I could have cycled a little more responsibly and prolonged TRT until 45, I would have. I think a lot of us don’t admit it, but rely heavily on cialis for whatever reasons. And I impulsively take aspirin for fear of blood clots since I’ve been on a while. Even though I just had labs done 5 weeks ago and they were damn near perfect.
My quality of life for a 40 year old is top notch. My fear of dying prematurely is unfortunately a bit high. I love this hobby though so I take the risk and after I finish my goal of competing next April, I’m going to spend a year on 200mg a week and getting my health really dialed in. No blasts for along time after April. I want to live along time and getting swole is becoming less of a priority, being a successful man and good father is my biggest priority. But it will plague my existence if I don’t do one contest. I’ve wanted to for along time.

Try to keep your cycles 10 weeks or less. Use short esters and do 8 weeks runs after this 12 week test run. You get just a much out of them with less long term suppression.
Thank you kind sir ! i just gonna add a simple question here and maybe inform what i want to add, i want that good 16 year old feel (being only 24) i feel fatigued and lack of motivation to do anything and find it hard to build muscle even though ive been training for 8 years i have a decent physique, bu i am also considering using hcg for life with just an AI to get that alpha edge and good feeling ?(mainly what im looking for) Would it desensitise after a while or would this be a better option ?
 

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Dude you wanted experienced people to join in and give their thoughts and now that you have one of the most respected guy out here helping you but you’re denying everything he says wtf is wrong with you? "Who are you to say I’m gonna gain 6 lbs and not 20 lbs everyone is different" on 500mg test you would not add 20 lbs of LEAN TISSUE. NOT. HAPPENING. On 500 mg and a big bulk you might end up adding 12lbs lean tissue and 8 lbs of fat to get to your 20 lbs(lol) but forget about adding 20 lbs of muscle lmao TEST IS WEAK. 250mg will give you a little recomp effect, it’l boost Your strength a little, will boost your libido, you’re gonna add a few lbs, THATS IT. And if you end up adding 15-20lbs well most of it is fucking fat. Also what is this non sense you’re talking about regarding suppression? 250mg will have you SHUTDOWN just like 150mg would or just like 500mg would. SHUTDOWN. the only thing you’re right about is when you’re talking about your CBC (blood count) where your hemoglobins and hematocrit MIGHT elevate more on 500mg than it would on 250mg. Your system is gonna take a hit from that 250mg just like it would on 500mg. The goal is to make the MOST out of the cycle and then return to normal and healthy levels. It’s okay to be concerned about your hematocrit level go donate blood towards the middle of your cycle that’s it. But TBH Your blood count is not something you should worry about unless you’re on fucking trt for life like us because after your cycle everything will come back to normal.if you’re scared of these sides DO NOT DO STEROIDS. a friend of mine has to donate blood every 3 months for his hematocrit to remain in range while mine stay well in range up to 400mg. And when mine get out of range I go donate blood end of story.
Well of course it will be shutting me down as long as i go over my own production it would be a complete shutdown as long as im adding more than i would produce naturally (duh?)By supression im not only counting in testosterone something in your system might be elevated and somethings might be supressed while running aas im not an american so sorry for the misunderstandigs here and there but for you to be typing «wtf is wrong with you?» for me simply to be asking questions to something that can potentially harm me for life then you seriously should have a check if you really have 46 chromosones in stock.
 
Mathb33

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Thank you kind sir ! i just gonna add a simple question here and maybe inform what i want to add, i want that good 16 year old feel (being only 24) i feel fatigued and lack of motivation to do anything and find it hard to build muscle even though ive been training for 8 years i have a decent physique, bu i am also considering using hcg for life with just an AI to get that alpha edge and good feeling ?(mainly what im looking for) Would it desensitise after a while or would this be a better option ?
There’s no desensitization of receptors at low-medium dose of hcg (250-500ui a week). I’m not sure doing hcg your whole life would make sense unless you’re on trt and even then I’m not sure about it. If you’re feeling fatigued,weak, etc maybe you should see a doctor and have your levels tested you might be dealing with low test? That’s how it all started for me. When I started trt it gave me the feeling you’re talking about... felt like I was born again, refreshed, full or energy, libido was back, real erections, etc etc etc
 
Mathb33

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Well of course it will be shutting me down as long as i go over my own production it would be a complete shutdown as long as im adding more than i would produce naturally (duh?)By supression im not only counting in testosterone something in your system might be elevated and somethings might be supressed while running aas im not an american so sorry for the misunderstandigs here and there but for you to be typing «wtf is wrong with you?» for me simply to be asking questions to something that can potentially harm me for life then you seriously should have a check if you really have 46 chromosones in stock.
Indeed I came out harsh excuse me for that. You have to understand we deal with people who ask questions but then denies the answers they’re given on a daily basis here. No hard feeling my young brother
 

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There’s no desensitization of receptors at low-medium dose of hcg (250-500ui a week). I’m not sure doing hcg your whole life would make sense unless you’re on trt and even then I’m not sure about it. If you’re feeling fatigued,weak, etc maybe you should see a doctor and have your levels tested you might be dealing with low test? That’s how it all started for me. When I started trt it gave me the feeling you’re talking about... felt like I was born again, refreshed, full or energy, libido was back, real erections, etc etc etc
The strenght is fine, the erections are good, sleep is **** like never feeling fresh when i wake up regardless if its 8 or 12 hours, energy is as good as gone aswell and zero morningwood...but hey maybe ill give it a go, i dont want to be taking your whole day your info has really helped alot and opened up new ways for me to see it when it comes to aas, i like to be discussing this subject its an extremely interesting one to me atleast.
 
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If i was you I’d get full bloodwork panel.. this way you’d know if your problems are hormonal or not!
 
Matthersby

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The strenght is fine, the erections are good, sleep is **** like never feeling fresh when i wake up regardless if its 8 or 12 hours, energy is as good as gone aswell and zero morningwood...but hey maybe ill give it a go, i dont want to be taking your whole day your info has really helped alot and opened up new ways for me to see it when it comes to aas, i like to be discussing this subject its an extremely interesting one to me atleast.
10 years and I learn things every day here.
It’s been the best hobby I’ve ever had manipulating my body and changing how I look with hard training and diet and drugs. Maybe I’m a weirdo but I absolutely love this. It’s the best part of every day for me. I and love learning and discussing on here as well.

Something interesting for you to research is the dosage at which your natural production is brought to zero.
It’s alarming low, and may convince you to go ahead and take advantage of total shutdown. With some 19nors it’s as low as like 40mg/week and sperm counts + natural test production are brought to zero.
 

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10 years and I learn things every day here.
It’s been the best hobby I’ve ever had manipulating my body and changing how I look with hard training and diet and drugs. Maybe I’m a weirdo but I absolutely love this. It’s the best part of every day for me. I and love learning and discussing on here as well.

Something interesting for you to research is the dosage at which your natural production is brought to zero.
It’s alarming low, and may convince you to go ahead and take advantage of total shutdown. With some 19nors it’s as low as like 40mg/week and sperm counts + natural test production are brought to zero.


Yeah that is true 125-150 mg/week is enough to shut you down completely. Only thing im thinking and have seen studies of hcg actually preserving lutenizing hormonelh(only on trt doses) and then i know 19nors are a category of steroids just dont know what steroids go into that category do you mean nandrolones ? i will also be considering trt if i have low levels, but in theory should not trt actually be a better option for building muscle than natural production ? Since it stays anabolic all the time in the blood but natural production goes up in the morning down at night and other events for an instance winning a chess game,fotball game any sports activity.
 
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Yeah that is true 125-150 mg/week is enough to shut you down completely. Only thing im thinking and have seen studies of hcg actually preserving lutenizing hormonelh(only on trt doses) and then i know 19nors are a category of steroids just dont know what steroids go into that category do you mean nandrolones ? i will also be considering trt if i have low levels, but in theory should not trt actually be a better option for building muscle than natural production ? Since it stays anabolic all the time in the blood but natural production goes up in the morning down at night and other events for an instance winning a chess game,fotball game any sports activity.
Someone going on trt will usually have a little boost in lean tissue and overall body composition but that’s not because he’s more "Anabolic" but rather because he just went from low Test (300 and below) to optimal levels of a healthy men ( 300-1000) trt will usually put you in the high end of the range though 800-900. So let’s say a healthy male at 800 test levels went on trt and got the same levels from exogenous testosterone there would be no change in his life and his physique.
 

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Well, I prefer a nice even 1200.
Oh geez i would love to be natural at 1200, ive gotten hold of the insulin needles the thing is im gonna just shoot 100IUs and see what happens with me in the coming days just for an experiment tbh prob not gonna do **** the thing im curious about matt, my insulin needle goes from 5-50 units does it mean 10 units on the syringe is 100 IUs ? Its and 0,5 ml insulin syringe im gonna jab in my stomach and the hcg is 5000 iu/ml.
 

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Well, I prefer a nice even 1200.
ive gotten the hcg and the insulin syringes now im gonna try a shot of 250 ius hcg and see if it would happen something iknow iknow sounds funny its just a little experiment ive got loads of it so no bother. But i am confused with the doses it says 5000iu/1ml the syringe goes from 5-50 units is 25 units on the syringe 250 ius ?
 
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Yeah considering the tbol but for 5 weeks you mean ? At the end or the beginning ? Also tbol also lowers shbg that would make free test to be floating around. And yes i only did 2 PH cycles in the past so... and by the way i got my roidtest and have tested the torem its nearly pharm grade but in raw form. Now i only need to know how many mg per capsule if im gonna make each one at 2 mg.
T-bol at the beginning, as a kick and Anavar for hardening at the end. With a pause of 3 weeks in between to give liver a rest. Also good to try a lean bulk for the first 8 weeks -and then cutting the last 4 on Anavar.
Get Tudca and use it in the 3 weeks "oral-pause" at 750mg/d. Some NAC throughout at 1gr/d would be good too.

Both orals are mild in sides and do not aromatize. If you take proviron, no AI may be necessary. I guarantee you, a cycle like this has the best sides/gains ratio and is still considered "mild".
 

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Well, I prefer a nice even 1200.
ive gotten the hcg and the insulin syringes now im gonna try a shot of 250 ius hcg and see if it would happen something iknow iknow sounds funny its just a little experiment ive got loads of it so no bother. But i am confused with the doses it says 5000iu/1ml the syringe goes from 5-50 units is 25 units on the syringe 250 ius ?
 

Abomination66

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Well, I prefer a nice even 1200.
ive gotten the hcg and the insulin syringes now im gonna try a shot of 250 ius hcg and see if it would happen something iknow iknow sounds funny its just a little experiment ive got loads of it so no bother. But i am confused with the doses it says 5000iu/1ml the syringe goes from 5-50 units is 25 units on the syringe 250 ius ?
 

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