First Cycle: 231mg of SubQ Test Propionate a Week

Nac

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this is a study for weight loss in long term (5-8 year) trt recipients? Your doing a 3 week semi trt dose 🤷
Yes, I don't think anyone on this forum will dispute the benefits of inj testosterone. So not sure exactly how this study is relevant specifically here, either.
 

AnaBrolicHK

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this is a study for weight loss in long term (5-8 year) trt recipients? Your doing a 3 week semi trt dose 🤷
It seems I don't need much more than 350mg. A lot of people are on 120-150mg a week or less for TRT so 350 is well past that.

The study was just to point out that fat loss on testosterone does happen.

Up to 237lbs this morning! Got some extra calories in yesterday after a late night kettlebell workout. Figured I might as well ride the gains train. I'll try and measure myself up today and then again in two weeks.
 

BBiceps

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It seems I don't need much more than 350mg. A lot of people are on 120-150mg a week or less for TRT so 350 is well past that.

The study was just to point out that fat loss on testosterone does happen.

Up to 237lbs this morning! Got some extra calories in yesterday after a late night kettlebell workout. Figured I might as well ride the gains train. I'll try and measure myself up today and then again in two weeks.
lol, you don’t think we know that? We also know is that it doesn’t happen overnight as soon as you do a shot, it takes time, so your 3 week cycle is still pointless.
 

AnaBrolicHK

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Regardless of what you think is pointless or not, this is working, and astonishingly well. Prop peaks in 12 hours and with ED dosing I've been able to keep levels up well. My results have vastly surpassed my expectations! I didn't expect to lose so much fat and gain muscle and weight at the same time. Now I don't want to come off in two weeks! :cry:
 

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OK, believe what you want buddy. Your opinion really doesn't matter to me. Just my health and my results.

Other benefits: I seem to be sleeping deeper and I need fewer hours of sleep overall. Weird. Social anxiety is way down too which was unexpected. Also I'm starting to get some vascularity in the arms, which I've never had before!

I'll go ahead and post before and after pics in two weeks.
 
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Whisky

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OK, believe what you want buddy. Your opinion really doesn't matter to me. Just my health and to my results
if you look at it this way, pro bb’s who clearly have hyper response to gear and amazing genetics don’t achieve the results you are claiming, you can see why we might all be a touch sceptical of the immediately fat melting, muscle building claims you’re making 🤷
 

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if you look at it this way, pro bb’s who clearly have hyper response to gear and amazing genetics don’t achieve the results you are claiming, you can see why we might all be a touch sceptical of the immediately fat melting, muscle building claims you’re making 🤷
Yeah I wasn't even aware of how crazy my results sounded, so I was surprised by the response from other members here. I thought I'd get good results since this is my first cycle, but this is way beyond what I expected to happen. I wonder if it's the Clomid. Are other people using UGL gear? I'm really very happy with the way this cycle is going. Seriously considering blast and cruise life :eek:


I'm thinking it's probably healthier to go on and off like in the study above, just at higher dosages.

Interestingly my strength gains haven't been anywhere near as impressive.

My voice has also gotten a LOT deeper. The real test will be in two weeks when my brother sees me and goes WTF
 
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Whisky

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Yeah I wasn't even aware of how crazy my results sounded, so I was surprised by the response from other members here. I thought I'd get good results since this is my first cycle, but this is way beyond what I expected to happen. I wonder if it's the Clomid. Are other people using UGL gear? I'm really very happy with the way this cycle is going. Seriously considering blast and cruise life :eek:


I'm thinking it's probably healthier to go on and off like in the study above, just at higher dosages.

Interestingly my strength gains haven't been anywhere near as impressive.
that study is only over 5 months which is very short to compare a monthly cycling option. It also didn’t take into account the hormone swings and impact on one would feel with hormones up and down like a two dollar Hooker
 

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that study is only over 5 months which is very short to compare a monthly cycling option. It also didn’t take into account the hormone swings and impact on one would feel with hormones up and down like a two dollar Hooker
Very valid points. I'm going to taper off and based on my previous experiment with Andriol and Clomid, I should recover very, very quickly once I come off the taper. That's as far as how I feel: I haven't had my hormone levels checked and don't know where they'll be when I come off. Going to get my HDL/LDL/hematocrit done soon though. Better safe than sorry. My blood pressure is perfect at least!
 
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Smont

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I made a post and then deleted it, I decided I should just be a spectator lol
 

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Controlled calories tightly yesterday and maintaining approximately the same weight today: just under 237 lbs. Noticing much faster nail growth and my acne from the beginning of the cycle has healed at an astonishing rate.
 
Smont

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Ok I couldn't spectate from the sidelines.

So am I getting this right, in 14 days you gained 7lbs while slashing fat, your nails grow faster and your voice got deeper, acne set in and then healed like magic, you banged 3 waitresses from the diner down the street at the same time, won the lottery and got inducted into the basketball hall of Fame!
 
Nac

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Ok I couldn't spectate from the sidelines.

So am I getting this right, in 14 days you gained 7lbs while slashing fat, your nails grow faster and your voice got deeper, acne set in and then healed like magic, you banged 3 waitresses from the diner down the street at the same time, won the lottery and got inducted into the basketball hall of Fame!
That's pretty much exactly what all the study subjects linked in this thread have reported too. 3 waitresses *is* statistically significant.
 

AnaBrolicHK

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you banged 3 waitresses from the diner down the street at the same time
I wish that was one of the benefits.

Posted this US Army study in another thread here:


300mg of Test E for six weeks led to an average of 3.4kg of weight gain and a bodyfat percentage decrease of 0.7%. The best responders for each variable may have gained 3.9kg and lost 1.2% bodyfat, respectively (based on the Standard Error).

Daily prop is a lot more stable as far as blood levels of testosterone vs. weekly pinning with Test E, and due to the lighter ester weight, 350mg of prop is significantly more testosterone than 300mg of Test E. If gains really do come on fastest in the first three weeks, my results really aren't that unusual are they?

Also interesting is that 100mg a week of Deca led to a little fat loss, but 300mg actually led to a little fat gain.

Of course, small study size (30 subjects) yada yada but we don't have all that much research to go on, especially not on healthy men.

My entire reason for posting this thread was to log for myself what doing things my way instead of the 500mg for 12 weeks modern broscience approach would do for me, and those who read along. I didn't know what would happen. Turns out that for some people, you don't need to seriously damage your heart and fertility for some results. Of course if you wanna go IFBB Pro, more sacrifices have to be made...but that was never my goal. I just wanted to add some lbs of lean muscle and maybe lose some fat since my progress had slowed down significantly.

I now also know I need to keep sleeping regular hours and leave the tobacco out of my life if I want to maximize my success, with or without exogenous testosterone in my life. Lack of sleep especially really fucked with me and I need to not do that. I had no idea how bad tobacco was for gains though!
 
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BBiceps

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Ok I couldn't spectate from the sidelines.

So am I getting this right, in 14 days you gained 7lbs while slashing fat, your nails grow faster and your voice got deeper, acne set in and then healed like magic, you banged 3 waitresses from the diner down the street at the same time, won the lottery and got inducted into the basketball hall of Fame!
I think this superstar only been 1 week on cycle so far, which makes his results even more impressive, luckily for us other mortals he will only do 2 more weeks otherwise it would be too unfair…
 
KvanH

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Ok I couldn't spectate from the sidelines.

So am I getting this right, in 14 days you gained 7lbs while slashing fat, your nails grow faster and your voice got deeper, acne set in and then healed like magic, you banged 3 waitresses from the diner down the street at the same time, won the lottery and got inducted into the basketball hall of Fame!
I call that a summer holiday. I mean pretty basic stuff for me, don't know about you guys..
 
Smont

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I wish that was one of the benefits.

Posted this US Army study in another thread here:


300mg of Test E for six weeks led to an average of 3.4kg of weight gain and a bodyfat percentage decrease of 0.7%. The best responders for each variable may have gained 3.9kg and lost 1.2% bodyfat, respectively (based on the Standard Error).

Daily prop is a lot more stable as far as blood levels of testosterone vs. weekly pinning with Test E, and due to the lighter ester weight, 350mg of prop is significantly more testosterone than 300mg of Test E. If gains really do come on fastest in the first three weeks, my results really aren't that unusual are they?

Also interesting is that 100mg a week of Deca led to a little fat loss, but 300mg actually led to a little fat gain.

Of course, small study size (30 subjects) yada yada but we don't have all that much research to go on, especially not on healthy men.

My entire reason for posting this thread was to log for myself what doing things my way instead of the 500mg for 12 weeks modern broscience approach would do for me, and those who read along. I didn't know what would happen. Turns out that for some people, you don't need to seriously damage your heart and fertility for some results. Of course if you wanna go IFBB Pro, more sacrifices have to be made...but that was never my goal. I just wanted to add some lbs of lean muscle and maybe lose some fat since my progress had slowed down significantly.

I now also know I need to keep sleeping regular hours and leave the tobacco out of my life if I want to maximize my success, with or without exogenous testosterone in my life. Lack of sleep especially really fucked with me and I need to not do that. I had no idea how bad tobacco was for gains though!
The only thing all your studies don't take into account is that even the most genetically gifted person on the planet can only gain about a half to 1lb muscle tissue per week. Gaining water weight, fuel storage and mineral retention is weight, but it's not muscle. Your getting those imaginary Dr Tony huge gains. And even that's a stretch because I've never seen anyone make changes in there physique on 2 weeks of trt. You are literally the most genetically gifted person on the planet. I don't know what you do for a living but you definitely missed your calling cus you should be Mr Olympia in a year or 2
 
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KvanH

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I'm just curious if starscream, dolberman or ripdandouchaine ring a bell in anybody's head
With the studies yes, but not otherwise. Also with under the Doucheine handle he was telling about all the gear he has used. But who knows 🤷‍♂️

Also this account has been created in 2014. And this member or handle or what ever is way more chill. But maybe it's the account SS uses when not on his period.
 
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Smont

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With the studies yes, but not otherwise. Also with under the Doucheine handle he was telling about all the gear he has used. But who knows 🤷‍♂️

Also this account has been created in 2014. And this member or handle or what ever is way more chill. But maybe it's the account SS uses when not on his period.
Ok lol I thought I was getting taken for a ride on another starscream handle. I did not notice 2014, soooo..... He's serious?

We need before and after pictures here because I also recently recomped about a 7-10lb swing. The results in my before and after are very obvious, only difference is it took me 6+ months to do
 
KvanH

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Ok lol I thought I was getting taken for a ride on another starscream handle. I did not notice 2014, soooo..... He's serious?

We need before and after pictures here because I also recently recomped about a 7-10lb swing. The results in my before and after are very obvious, only difference is it took me 6+ months to do
He's super cereal, it seems.
 
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Whisky

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The only thing all your studies don't take into account is that even the most genetically gifted person on the planet can only gain about a half to 1lb muscle tissue per week. Gaining water weight, fuel storage and mineral retention is weight, but it's not muscle. Your getting those imaginary Dr Tony huge gains. And even that's a stretch because I've never seen anyone make changes in there physique on 2 weeks of trt. You are literally the most genetically gifted person on the planet. I don't know what you do for a living but you definitely missed your calling cus you should be Mr Olympia in a year or 2
based on this thread yes

based on working out 20 years with great nutrition and training but 25% bf 🤷 maybe not such amazing genetics

who da fcuk knows what’s going on here.

defo not SS though. Writing style totally different imo
 
Carnivorecon

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What you lot don't know is his coach is vince del monte! He's making dem dere 41lbs of "dry muscle" gains
 

AnaBrolicHK

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The only thing all your studies don't take into account is that even the most genetically gifted person on the planet can only gain about a half to 1lb muscle tissue per week. Gaining water weight, fuel storage and mineral retention is weight, but it's not muscle. Your getting those imaginary Dr Tony huge gains. And even that's a stretch because I've never seen anyone make changes in there physique on 2 weeks of trt. You are literally the most genetically gifted person on the planet. I don't know what you do for a living but you definitely missed your calling cus you should be Mr Olympia in a year or 2
I don't know how much is water, but we'll see when I come off I guess! Curious to see how much weight I keep on and if the fat rebounds.

As for working out for 20 years...not continuous. It's actually 26 years since I started. Went from a skinny 145lb 14 year old to a fat 245 at my max a few years ago. I've never been particularly lean, even when I did cardio like crazy and dropped to 175lbs I still had a little gut. It's only in the last year or so that I realized the permabulk mentality I've had since the 90s had to go! Part of that is the older guys I was around telling me to eat more for size.

I was counting every calorie for a while and made some solid progress recomping. My weight was pretty much stagnant for months until I started this cycle. I'm really happy about the fat loss, especially the visceral fat loss. The extra muscle is definitely nice as well. My forearms have never looked better.

I'm curious to see what the next two weeks bring. I feel like my body has completely adjusted to the new dose and I don't feel it as strongly as I did a week ago. Perhaps two weeks is where the progress slows on daily prop due to the much more even blood levels vs test e. Time will tell. I've definitely never looked better at this weight though.
 
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KvanH

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I don't know how much is water, but we'll see when I come off I guess! Curious to see how much weight I keep on and if the fat rebounds.

As for working out for 20 years...not continuous. It's actually 26 years since I started. Went from a skinny 145lb 14 year old to 245 at my max a few years ago. I've never been particularly lean, even when I did cardio like crazy and dropped to 175lbs I still had a little gut. It's only in the last year or so that I realized the permabulk mentality I've had since the 90s had to go! Part of that is the older guys I was around. I was counting every calorie for a while. My weight was pretty much stagnant for months until I started this cycle. I'm really happy about the fat loss, especially the visceral fat loss.

I'm curious to see what the next two weeks bring. I feel like my body has completely adjusted to the new dose and I don't feel it as strongly as I did a week ago.
How do you estimate you've lost visceral fat?

Just in case, maybe you've adjusted to the test dose in terms of how it makes you feel, but gains wise you're only getting started. At least you're running a real cycle dose now with the 350 mg a week. I'd run it for 8 weeks at minimun.
 
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AnaBrolicHK

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How do you estimate you've lost visceral fat?

Just in case, maybe you've adjusted to the test dose in terms of how it makes you feel, but gains wise you're only getting started. At least you're running a real cycle dose now, with the 350 mg a week. I'd run it 8 weeks at the minimun.
My gut has gotten much smaller, as well as the fat on top of it. If my gains slow in the next two weeks I'll come off as planned. I do have enough test prop for another 3 weeks or so and can get more easily if need be...I can definitely see how steroids could be addictive now. The progress has me tempted to bump up to 500mg.
 
KvanH

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My gut has gotten much smaller, as well as the fat on top of it. If my gains slow in the next two weeks I'll come off as planned. I do have enough test prop for another 3 weeks or so and can get more easily if need be...I can definitely see how steroids could be addictive now. The progress has me tempted to bump up to 500mg.
No need to bump up, 350 mg is a decent dose for first cycle, especially if not a long cycle. The lenght however.. But you do you.
 

BBiceps

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No need to bump up, 350 mg is a decent dose for first cycle, especially if not a long cycle. The lenght however.. But you do you.
Also, it’s way too unfair if he does bump it to 500 and do a 8 week cycle, can you imagine?! Nobody would be able to compete with this gifted mass monster… 🙄
 
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Smont

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I don't know how much is water, but we'll see when I come off I guess! Curious to see how much weight I keep on and if the fat rebounds.

As for working out for 20 years...not continuous. It's actually 26 years since I started. Went from a skinny 145lb 14 year old to a fat 245 at my max a few years ago. I've never been particularly lean, even when I did cardio like crazy and dropped to 175lbs I still had a little gut. It's only in the last year or so that I realized the permabulk mentality I've had since the 90s had to go! Part of that is the older guys I was around telling me to eat more for size.

I was counting every calorie for a while and made some solid progress recomping. My weight was pretty much stagnant for months until I started this cycle. I'm really happy about the fat loss, especially the visceral fat loss. The extra muscle is definitely nice as well. My forearms have never looked better.

I'm curious to see what the next two weeks bring. I feel like my body has completely adjusted to the new dose and I don't feel it as strongly as I did a week ago. Perhaps two weeks is where the progress slows on daily prop due to the much more even blood levels vs test e. Time will tell. I've definitely never looked better at this weight though.
The progress does not slow for 12+ weeks, your delusional
 
Smont

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You start a cycle with water, glycogen and mineral retention. None of your gains in the first 2 weeks are muscle, it's cosmetic. 4,6,8,10,12 and so on is when your building actual muscle tissue. If your rediculous theories and half ass studies were correct then everyone could just take 3 week cycles of test and superdrol and add 30lbs of muscle 5 times a year and be bigger the Ronnie Coleman after 2 years of training.

You need a psychiatric evaluation
 

BBiceps

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You start a cycle with water, glycogen and mineral retention. None of your gains in the first 2 weeks are muscle, it's cosmetic. 4,6,8,10,12 and so on is when your building actual muscle tissue. If your rediculous theories and half ass studies were correct then everyone could just take 3 week cycles of test and superdrol and add 30lbs of muscle 5 times a year and be bigger the Ronnie Coleman after 2 years of training.

You need a psychiatric evaluation
Don’t forget the daily fat melting action that happened from the first shot, it must be true because he pinched his arm fat for proof… 🤔
 
KvanH

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You made me doubt myself some, but the scale doesn't lie.
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My tummy and love handles have been an issue for a while and while I've made very solid progress over the last year, I haven't lost any significant fat for a few months until now.
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I do a pinch thing where I pinch my arm between my index and thumb and hold it up to my face. My arm is much larger than when I started.

SubQ leads to higher peak levels than IM.
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🎵 Yummy yummy yummy I pin prop in my tummy, and I see gains in the first day 🎵
 
Whisky

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I usually try to be supportive and encouraging but there's no way any of this is real.
normally I’d agree but my guess is that it is genuine.

I think the OP is reasonably smart and well educated (in his opinion). His perception of steroid users is the classic gym bro and not that smart.

He’s read a few studies and assumes the rest of use don’t do this is because we aren’t smart enough to actually understand it and we rely on outdated bro science.

however, what he’s missing is that actually many recreational steroid users are extremely smart and successful. We understand the studies but we understand that what should happen on paper doesn’t always translate and that small scale studies don’t match up to years of real world data across millions of users.

I respect anyone for trying something new and challenging the ‘normal’. However, his desire for it to work is blinding his perception of the results (for example, at 25% body fat even if he lost 5lbs pure fat in a week or two it wouldn’t be noticeable).

just my guess anyway
 
Smont

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normally I’d agree but my guess is that it is genuine.

I think the OP is reasonably smart and well educated (in his opinion). His perception of steroid users is the classic gym bro and not that smart.

He’s read a few studies and assumes the rest of use don’t do this is because we aren’t smart enough to actually understand it and we rely on outdated bro science.

however, what he’s missing is that actually many recreational steroid users are extremely smart and successful. We understand the studies but we understand that what should happen on paper doesn’t always translate and that small scale studies don’t match up to years of real world data across millions of users.

I respect anyone for trying something new and challenging the ‘normal’. However, his desire for it to work is blinding his perception of the results (for example, at 25% body fat even if he lost 5lbs pure fat in a week or two it wouldn’t be noticeable).

just my guess anyway
Jesus, I'm just gonna unwatch this thread, it's hurting my head and I don't want to keep insulting someone that isint trolling. Adios
 

BBiceps

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normally I’d agree but my guess is that it is genuine.

I think the OP is reasonably smart and well educated (in his opinion). His perception of steroid users is the classic gym bro and not that smart.

He’s read a few studies and assumes the rest of use don’t do this is because we aren’t smart enough to actually understand it and we rely on outdated bro science.

however, what he’s missing is that actually many recreational steroid users are extremely smart and successful. We understand the studies but we understand that what should happen on paper doesn’t always translate and that small scale studies don’t match up to years of real world data across millions of users.

I respect anyone for trying something new and challenging the ‘normal’. However, his desire for it to work is blinding his perception of the results (for example, at 25% body fat even if he lost 5lbs pure fat in a week or two it wouldn’t be noticeable).

just my guess anyway
Lol, I think it’s a little of both “thinking he’s smart” and also being delusional. He have obviously no idea how to diet and want this too work so bad he’s making things up in his head and seeing results that’s not there, but, even though the results is only in his head he’s happy about it so the “cycle” is actually “working” (in his head)… If he’s happy about the none results the cycle was a success (for him), I just wish he didn’t log it so other new guys read this and think it works.
 
Whisky

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Lol, I think it’s a little of both “thinking he’s smart” and also being delusional. He have obviously no idea how to diet and want this too work so bad he’s making things up in his head and seeing results that’s not there, but, even though the results is only in his head he’s happy about it so the “cycle” is actually “working” (in his head)… If he’s happy about the none results the cycle was a success (for him), I just wish he didn’t log it so other new guys read this and think it works.
well that’s the issue with forums generally, what people are claiming works when we have zero photographic evidence gives a false impression (same as a fitness influencer gaining a load of mass on gear but claiming natty, people then believe it can be done when it can’t).

fortunately there are enough on here that log legitimately to balance it out.
 

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Been holding the same weight for a few days while eating at maintenance: it's still a sped up recomp, which I'm very happy about. Noticed some bloat a few days ago and I believe it was due to fluctuation in dose due to some of the oil leaking out, so I've started Z-tracking my shots. Much less oil loss that way when shooting a full ml.

I am well aware that steroid users tend to be more educated and wealthier than the average bear. NAC and Whisky both seem like bright individuals. It's also very much human nature to follow the herd and do what everyone else does. I couldn't find a log anywhere on the web of anyone else who'd tried a short cycle as their first cycle (and believe me, I've looked), so I had to try it for myself. It's the scientist in me. That and my desire to minimize the effects on my heart and natural testosterone production. If I later need to go on TRT, so be it, but I'd like to keep the balls going naturally for as long as I can.

Are the results massively obvious? Of course not. Is there a detectable improvement in my rate of progress since before I got on? Absolutely. Perhaps using the term 'melting' for my early fat loss got under a few people's skins. Yes, I noticed a rapid change in my belly fat in the first week while my weight was going up, and then I noticed fat loss on other sites on my body. I genetically hold fat in my belly and lovehandles, so it was a pleasant surprise to see some of this fat come off, and quite rapidly vs my previous rate of fat loss. Basically the test has just turned the knob up a little. I've still got a long road ahead for sure.

I've made major changes in a year, but progress is slow and steady and had stagnated some. I don't know how much of the net 5lbs weight gain so far is water, and I won't know until I come off, but I'm happy with the way things have gone so far. I look a little better for sure. I also don't know how much fat is going to come back on and how much muscle is going to come off when the cycle ends, due to hormonal shifts, but I'll know soon enough.

Stronger in the gym today as well: noticed a significant improvement on incline bench, pulldowns and dips in particular. I'm curious to see if there's an effect on DOMS. I'm definitely getting stronger faster than I would have without the test. I don't think I'll have effects this significant on my next test cycle, but who knows? I'm not planning on trying any other compounds in the future (especially not orals) since they are damn near impossible to get into the country atm and I don't want to mess with anything UGL. I can legally bring gear back in from overseas pharmacies, but that's not something I'll be able to do in the foreseeable future.

Oh, there are some confounding variables: I stopped using alcohol, cannabis and tobacco, so some of the rapid weight gain early on may have been due to cutting the smokables out of my life, and perhaps hormonal shifts from cutting out the alcohol. I've smoked two spliffs (with tobacco) and four pints since I started, but got my **** together again and I've cut them out. I also stopped staying up 20 hours at a stretch and got my sleep together.
 
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AnaBrolicHK

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Weight down 2 lbs today. I look kind of flat, so I think it's glycogen depletion from yesterday's workout. Gonna need the foam roller today for sure...

Found an old thread on another forum yesterday. Turns out there was a fair bit of discussion and even use of short cycles around ten years ago, and it's likely they're still used by professional athletes subject to testing. Someone suggested a short two-week cycle was good for getting through sticking points, while others said they made solid gains that dropped off some after four weeks. There's also apparently a point in time (8 weeks, iirc) where myostatin levels slow things down massively. I'll see how I'm doing at four weeks. I'm open to extending the cycle, but if I notice a slowdown in effects in week four I'll come off.
 
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Weight down 2 lbs today. I look kind of flat, so I think it's glycogen depletion from yesterday's workout. Gonna need the foam roller today for sure...

Found an old thread on another forum yesterday. Turns out there was a fair bit of discussion and even use of short cycles around ten years ago, and it's likely they're still used by professional athletes subject to testing. Someone suggested a short two-week cycle was good for getting through sticking points, while others said they made solid gains that dropped off some after four weeks. There's also apparently a point in time (8 weeks, iirc) where myostatin levels slow things down massively. I'll see how I'm doing at four weeks. I'm open to extending the cycle, but if I notice a slowdown in effects in week four I'll come off.
professional athletes have a completely different approach due to testing but mainly due to the required outcomes. They are only looking for the 1% boost that is the difference between first and last in elite sport. The difference wouldn’t be visible aesthetically but if it takes 0.5s off the 100m sprint time then for them it’s worth it.
 

AnaBrolicHK

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While that's certainly one way to look at it, another is that a short cycle/low dose (Neil Armstrong and his team took Andriol capsules after long races, sometimes dissolved in olive oil) is effective enough for professional athletes to risk it all.

I'm certainly less sore than expected today, which is nice. My first hard gym workout since the start of the cycle.
 
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