Unanswered Feeling shut down during cycle despite injecting daily test prop?

SpicedCider

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I'm currently several weeks into a cycle of DHB (~430 mg/wk), Anavar (just bumped up to 80 mg/day a few days ago), and last week I just added in 30 mg/day of test prop. However, despite the addition of test prop, I'm still experiencing symptoms of shutdown (sluggishness during cardio, overall blah mentality and negative outlook, basically no libido).

Shouldn't the test prop be taking care of this? Is 30 mg/day not enough? This should be giving me over 200 mg of test prop per week, which is more than what a lot of guys get for TRT. Does it sound like my test prop is bunk?

Thanks
 
nostrum420

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You're using large doses of compounds that cause lethargy and you just started prop as a base...

You should have been running at least some test the whole time. It's not magic; it's going to take some time to kick in even if it is a short ester.

Why did you choose those doses of var and DHB if you weren't running any test? Not trying to be rude but I don't understand the forethought that went into this cycle.

Next time start with test and add in other compounds slowly ie start at a low dose and work your way up. Again, I'm sorry if this is a little harsh but adding in a test "base" last is bass ackwards.
 
SpicedCider

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You're using large doses of compounds that cause lethargy and you just started prop as a base...

You should have been running at least some test the whole time. It's not magic; it's going to take some time to kick in even if it is a short ester.

Why did you choose those doses of var and DHB if you weren't running any test? Not trying to be rude but I don't understand the forethought that went into this cycle.

Next time start with test and add in other compounds slowly ie start at a low dose and work your way up. Again, I'm sorry if this is a little harsh but adding in a test "base" last is bass ackwards.
Well, a number of guys here say that a test base isn't really necessary. Obviously, in my case it is. I guess I'm just surprised that I'm not feeling the prop yet since it's been about a week since I started my daily injections.

I chose those doses because 400 mg/wk is considered to be a fairly standard starting dose for DHB, and I started the Anavar at 50 mg/day for the first couple weeks and have been slowly increasing the dose.
 
Old Witch

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The guys who are saying it’s not necessary are literally saying this is a feeling you can choose to deal with in other ways. And thats true. So it’s not “necessary” even if you feel like ****. You still need to do something.
 
jtmass

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Even I don't want to be rude, but, you're information is wrong. I was planning to run var (decided to stay natty at least for some more time) and wherever I searched, it's a norm that you have to run test even if you're running just var because your testies will shutdown.
 
nostrum420

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People are advocating against a Test base, now?? SMH
 
SpicedCider

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The guys who are saying it’s not necessary are literally saying this is a feeling you can choose to deal with in other ways. And thats true. So it’s not “necessary” even if you feel like ****. You still need to do something.
@Old Witch should I be feeling the test prop by now if I've been injecting 30 mg/day for about a week now? I'm trying to watch porn over here but my junk simply doesn't seem to care.
 
SpicedCider

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Even I don't want to be rude, but, you're information is wrong. I was planning to run var (decided to stay natty at least for some more time) and wherever I searched, it's a norm that you have to run test even if you're running just var because your testies will shutdown.
The funny thing is, I ran a TBol cycle back in the fall and didn't use a test base (just 2x/wk HCG injections, which I'm doing during this cycle as well), and I never really dealt with severe shutdown symptoms.
 
Old Witch

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Are you using cialis at all? You might want to do that.

I’m on 600mg test E and 400mg dhb and I won’t shoot with a hard rod without tadalafil. I probably should raise the dhb dosage, raise my AI dosage, or raise my test dosage.

But I’m not yet, because timing is what I’m going by. I don’t need to function at the moment.
 
SpicedCider

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Are you using cialis at all? You might want to do that.

I’m on 600mg test E and 400mg dhb and I won’t shoot with a hard rod without tadalafil. I probably should raise the dhb dosage, raise my AI dosage, or raise my test dosage.

But I’m not yet, because timing is what I’m going by. I don’t need to function at the moment.
@Old Witch I'm not using any Cialis yet. Unfortunately, I'm going to be out of town until the end of this week and won't be able to get any (even if I ordered it now) until I get back. Do you think 30 mg/day just isn't enough test prop for me to function normally on a cycle of ~420 mg/wk of DHB and 80 mg/day of Anavar?
 
Old Witch

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@Old Witch I'm not using any Cialis yet. Unfortunately, I'm going to be out of town until the end of this week and won't be able to get any (even if I ordered it now) until I get back. Do you think 30 mg/day just isn't enough test prop for me to function normally on a cycle of ~420 mg/wk of DHB and 80 mg/day of Anavar?
Likely the case is that it’s either not enough or too much.

What AI are you using?
 
xR1pp3Rx

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People are advocating against a Test base, now?? SMH
Its not that we are advocating against it. Rather its a personal choice.

As far as OP symptoms, I feel it has nothing to do with test. Instead I believe its dose related. Too bad though, once it starts its near impossible to turn around, less stopping your cycle. And as you mentioned, its a known issue with DHB, much like 1Andro.

my 2 cents, take cialis and lots of stimulants. you will still feel like chit, and really will still struggle with lethargy. be careful behind the wheel.
 
nostrum420

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Its not that we are advocating against it. Rather its a personal choice.

As far as OP symptoms, I feel it has nothing to do with test. Instead I believe its dose related. Too bad though, once it starts its near impossible to turn around, less stopping your cycle. And as you mentioned, its a known issue with DHB, much like 1Andro.

my 2 cents, take cialis and lots of stimulants. you will still feel like chit, and really will still struggle with lethargy. be careful behind the wheel.
I don't know that I agree it's nothing to do with test but everything else you said, I agree with 100%.
 
SpicedCider

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Likely the case is that it’s either not enough or too much.

What AI are you using?

No AI yet (I think the consensus on here a couple months ago was that an AI wouldn't be needed with me taking a relatively low dose of test prop). I have Arimidex on hand.
]
 
SpicedCider

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Its not that we are advocating against it. Rather its a personal choice.

As far as OP symptoms, I feel it has nothing to do with test. Instead I believe its dose related. Too bad though, once it starts its near impossible to turn around, less stopping your cycle. And as you mentioned, its a known issue with DHB, much like 1Andro.

my 2 cents, take cialis and lots of stimulants. you will still feel like chit, and really will still struggle with lethargy. be careful behind the wheel.
So you don't think the test prop is going to make any difference? Am I going to be better off not injecting it at all?

Is there any way I could have prevented this, or is it basically an inevitability of a DHB cycle?

Thanks
 
SpicedCider

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Its not that we are advocating against it. Rather its a personal choice.

As far as OP symptoms, I feel it has nothing to do with test. Instead I believe its dose related. Too bad though, once it starts its near impossible to turn around, less stopping your cycle. And as you mentioned, its a known issue with DHB, much like 1Andro.

my 2 cents, take cialis and lots of stimulants. you will still feel like chit, and really will still struggle with lethargy. be careful behind the wheel.
So you don't think the test prop is going to make any difference? Am I going to be better off not injecting it at all?

Is there any way I could have prevented this, or is it basically an inevitability of a DHB cycle?

Thanks
 
xR1pp3Rx

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So you don't think the test prop is going to make any difference? Am I going to be better off not injecting it at all?

Is there any way I could have prevented this, or is it basically an inevitability of a DHB cycle?

Thanks
i dont think test is going to help at this point. perhaps had you started with test at a middle dose say 400 and kept the DHB lower you may have thwarted some of it. IDK. everyone is different and only you can really answer this through trial and error for yourself.
 
SpicedCider

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i dont think test is going to help at this point. perhaps had you started with test at a middle dose say 400 and kept the DHB lower you may have thwarted some of it. IDK. everyone is different and only you can really answer this through trial and error for yourself.
The funny thing is, back in the fall I ran a T-Bol cycle for 10 weeks that ended at 100 mg/day dosing for the last week or so, and aside from some mild lethargy that kicked in around week 4 that went away after I started injecting HCG a couple times a week, I otherwise felt fine (maybe some mild anxiety once my dosing got pretty high).

Maybe DHB just isn't a good compound for me, since like you mentioned, some people are just more prone to lethargy with the 1-test compounds? I actually ran a "cycle" of oral 1-DHEA back in 2013 and it made me fairly lethargic after a weeks even at a low dose, so I'm thinking I simply might be one of those people.

Just out of curiosity, what other compounds would you recommend for someone whose goals are to gain quality, dry lean muscle (not really worried about massive strength increases and not a fan of the bloated/water weight-heavy look)? Is there anything out there on the level of DHB that isn't as known for causing lethargy?

Thanks
 
xR1pp3Rx

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my all time favorite.. TRESTOLONE.

it can be wet dependent on carb intake.. but if you keep them middle of the road, the gains are very dry and stellar.
 
SpicedCider

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my all time favorite.. TRESTOLONE.

it can be wet dependent on carb intake.. but if you keep them middle of the road, the gains are very dry and stellar.
Thanks for the tip, I'll consider that for my next cycle (or maybe even trest + T-Bol). Ironically enough, I had actually avoided trest in the past because I didn't want to have to worry about taking an AI as an ancillary during my cycle, but obviously I'm already taking an ancillary by injecting test prop ed to try and combat lethargy so it's whatever at this point.

It's too bad there's not a drug out there that acts as a much stronger T-Bol that doesn't cause severe lethargy.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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Thanks for the tip, I'll consider that for my next cycle (or maybe even trest + T-Bol). Ironically enough, I had actually avoided trest in the past because I didn't want to have to worry about taking an AI as an ancillary during my cycle, but obviously I'm already taking an ancillary by injecting test prop ed to try and combat lethargy so it's whatever at this point.

It's too bad there's not a drug out there that acts as a much stronger T-Bol that doesn't cause severe lethargy.
Im sure there are plenty of orals that you could take that wont cause that.. have you tried DMZ, msten, m1a, dianbol?

these are just a few of whats coming to mind.

Maybe OW will stop in and drop a laundry list for you.
 
SpicedCider

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Im sure there are plenty of orals that you could take that wont cause that.. have you tried DMZ, msten, m1a, dianbol?

these are just a few of whats coming to mind.

Maybe OW will stop in and drop a laundry list for you.
Haven't tried any of those you mentioned yet. I'm actually not opposed to pinning (currently injecting both the DHB and test prop), so I'm open to injectables as well.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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well in that case, tren dont make anyone sleepy lulz.
 
SpicedCider

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well in that case, tren dont make anyone sleepy lulz.
LOL tren sounds like it would be great, except for the mental sides and the heart side effects that adversely affect cardio performance. Those are literally the only 2 reasons I've stayed away from tren.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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the cardio thing does wear off after a week or two.. but its still there in the back ground like when you bend over to tie your shoes.. you come up for air before its over. Mental sides are no joke. I have issues when Im on it. I get jealous and mean.
 
SpicedCider

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well in that case, tren dont make anyone sleepy lulz.
LOL tren sounds like it would be great, except for the mental sides and the heart side effects that adversely affect cardio performance. Those are literally the only 2 reasons I've stayed away from tren.
the cardio thing does wear off after a week or two.. but its still there in the back ground like when you bend over to tie your shoes.. you come up for air before its over. Mental sides are no joke. I have issues when Im on it. I get jealous and mean.
I already have issues with self-esteem/self-confidence (never really had that much luck with girls most of my life and that combined with a natural lack of self-confidence makes me get pretty down on myself), so I'm thinking tren is something I should probably stay away from for that reason.
 
Old Witch

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LOL tren sounds like it would be great, except for the mental sides and the heart side effects that adversely affect cardio performance. Those are literally the only 2 reasons I've stayed away from tren.


I already have issues with self-esteem/self-confidence (never really had that much luck with girls most of my life and that combined with a natural lack of self-confidence makes me get pretty down on myself), so I'm thinking tren is something I should probably stay away from for that reason.
It’s pretty bad for your kidneys too, and your liver can’t break it down either... so yeah it’s all kinds of bad for you. Literally one of the worst and least healthy steroids. Basically the opposite of primobolan with the exact same kinds of results. Just a hell of a lot stronger. Taking 100mg of tren is like taking a couple grams of primo.
 
Old Witch

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I’ve seen guys who literally define their blast vs cruise by whether there’s tren in the cycle at that time or not.

If you think about it, that pretty much puts tren above all else.
 
Carnivorecon

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Wasn't there a study which ran var for 6 months and showed only suppression not shut down? could be wrong though.
 

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Wasn't there a study which ran var for 6 months and showed only suppression not shut down? could be wrong though.
I think I’ve seen people mention this but the dose was different if I remember correctly. Definitely wasn’t the 70+ mg/day we usually run.
 
MrManlet

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LOL tren sounds like it would be great, except for the mental sides and the heart side effects that adversely affect cardio performance. Those are literally the only 2 reasons I've stayed away from tren.
I just hopped on the 19nor train with TREST I thought tren would be too harsh at first, and although I guess TREST May be a little harder to dial in with AI and bloat, I figured since it was TRANSDERMAL that I’m taking it would be less harsh.
I’m a little early on this but today marks 1 week on trest td and I gotta say I already love it. If you’re experiencing lethargy get some trest and give it about a week and it will WAKE YOUR ASS UP.
I was on a DMZ only cycle and was DYING from lethargy and adding this trest has been a life saver man
 
SpicedCider

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It’s pretty bad for your kidneys too, and your liver can’t break it down either... so yeah it’s all kinds of bad for you. Literally one of the worst and least healthy steroids. Basically the opposite of primobolan with the exact same kinds of results. Just a hell of a lot stronger. Taking 100mg of tren is like taking a couple grams of primo.
Would you happen to know of an AAS that is just as effective (or close to it) as DHB at promoting lean muscle gains and for relatively few side effects but without the propensity for lethargy and libido decimation? (these are literally the only 2 sides I've noticed during my cycle)
 

jrock645

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Would you happen to know of an AAS that is just as effective (or close to it) as DHB at promoting lean muscle gains and for relatively few side effects but without the propensity for lethargy and libido decimation? (these are literally the only 2 sides I've noticed during my cycle)
You weren’t running test from the beginning though, right? That’s a very key detail and a fatal flaw in your set up. I don’t know that you can pin your symptoms solely on the compound you’re running. I think without test, you’d feel like this on most. Just my opinion.
 
SpicedCider

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I just hopped on the 19nor train with TREST I thought tren would be too harsh at first, and although I guess TREST May be a little harder to dial in with AI and bloat, I figured since it was TRANSDERMAL that I’m taking it would be less harsh.
I’m a little early on this but today marks 1 week on trest td and I gotta say I already love it. If you’re experiencing lethargy get some trest and give it about a week and it will WAKE YOUR ASS UP.
I was on a DMZ only cycle and was DYING from lethargy and adding this trest has been a life saver man
Good to hear, maybe I'll consider making trest the centerpiece of my next run. Maybe something wet (but not necessarily so) like treat in combination with a dry compound like Tbol is the way to go.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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now your cooking with gas!
 
SpicedCider

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You weren’t running test from the beginning though, right? That’s a very key detail and a fatal flaw in your set up. I don’t know that you can pin your symptoms solely on the compound you’re running. I think without test, you’d feel like this on most. Just my opinion.
Nope, I was hoping I'd be one of those guys who can get away with running compounds without a test base. Guess I learned the hard way that I'm not.

Also, I felt fine throughout most of 10-wk Tbol cycle that exceeded 100 mg/day at the end, so I was hoping I'd have better luck with this cycle.
 
Old Witch

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Would you happen to know of an AAS that is just as effective (or close to it) as DHB at promoting lean muscle gains and for relatively few side effects but without the propensity for lethargy and libido decimation? (these are literally the only 2 sides I've noticed during my cycle)
Well, test is the only thing that fits all the right places the right ways...

You need to find the correct ratio of test to DHB for you to feel good. With DHb in the mix your aromatization of the test you’re taking will rise, so you need to increase the AI dose proportionately versus test only.
 
Old Witch

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The lethargy is likely from your oral.

The libido loss is from estrogen.
 
SpicedCider

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The lethargy is likely from your oral.

The libido loss is from estrogen.
Thanks for the info. So I do need to be taking at least a low dose of Arimidex, then (maybe 0.5 mg eod)?

I was under the impression that I wouldn't need an AI (although I do have one on hand) on only 30 mg/day of test prop, but I'll start taking it if estrogen is one of the causes of my issues. I don't want to end up with man-boobs either.
 
Old Witch

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Thanks for the info. So I do need to be taking at least a low dose of Arimidex, then (maybe 0.5 mg eod)?

I was under the impression that I wouldn't need an AI (although I do have one on hand) on only 30 mg/day of test prop, but I'll start taking it if estrogen is one of the causes of my issues. I don't want to end up with man-boobs either.
Well, before you took the test prop, it was your own test turning into estrogen. Now for awhile it will be the prop, plus that which you still make until you’re shut down fully.


Also, it doesn’t matter how small the dose of test is, because you’re using other steroid compounds with it.

Once testosterone is introduced, it needs to be protected somehow. The body is trying to aromatize all of the androgens present; even those which cannot aromatize. So the testosterone ends up becoming estrogen, prolonging the lack of libido or performance etc.

To combat this, an AI would be the first choice. Adding proviron would be the next step. After that you ought to feel much better.

Until you stop the anavar, you’ll likely still be somewhat tired versus the usual. Possibly not, once the hormone issue is corrected.
 
Old Witch

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I said before I’m on 600mg Test E and 400mg DHB a week, and I can’t stay hard to cum without cialis. And it’s because of estrogen.

That being said, my libido is definitely working... I want the sex.

And, I have no lethargy whatsoever.

Everyone is different, but I highly doubt the dhb in and of itself is causing lethargy. In fact I’d bet my reputation on it.

If anything, it should make you kind of anxious, overly alert. Not unlike EQ, though much milder mg for mg in that regard in my experience.

Bloodwork would really help.
 
SpicedCider

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Well, before you took the test prop, it was your own test turning into estrogen. Now for awhile it will be the prop, plus that which you still make until you’re shut down fully.


Also, it doesn’t matter how small the dose of test is, because you’re using other steroid compounds with it.

Once testosterone is introduced, it needs to be protected somehow. The body is trying to aromatize all of the androgens present; even those which cannot aromatize. So the testosterone ends up becoming estrogen, prolonging the lack of libido or performance etc.

To combat this, an AI would be the first choice. Adding proviron would be the next step. After that you ought to feel much better.

Until you stop the anavar, you’ll likely still be somewhat tired versus the usual. Possibly not, once the hormone issue is corrected.
I said before I’m on 600mg Test E and 400mg DHB a week, and I can’t stay hard to cum without cialis. And it’s because of estrogen.

That being said, my libido is definitely working... I want the sex.

And, I have no lethargy whatsoever.

Everyone is different, but I highly doubt the dhb in and of itself is causing lethargy. In fact I’d bet my reputation on it.

If anything, it should make you kind of anxious, overly alert. Not unlike EQ, though much milder mg for mg in that regard in my experience.

Bloodwork would really help.
@Old Witch I appreciate the thorough explanation. Yeah, before the lethargy libido issues started, I noticed that I did feel a bit antsy at times and would sometimes have a hard time getting to sleep at night (but still, even these sides were hardly noticeable).

So in your opinion, is 0.5 mg of Arimidex dosed every other day likely to be a high/frequent-enough dose?

I have Proviron as well (hey, at least nobody can say I showed up to the party unprepared). I'm thinking I'll start taking maybe 80-100 mg/day when I wake up tomorrow.
 
Old Witch

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If you do 100mg a day, split it.

I’m taking 50mg a day upon waking only. Mainly because it’s expensive.

As far as Adex, 0.5mg EOD is a lot. Might be too much. Might not.

Usually that’s where I see others elsewhere telling people to start, personally I’m going up from 0.25mg e3D to 0.5mg e3d, and waiting four pins (12 days) to assess whether that’s enough for myself or not.

I usually recommend to start at 0.25-0.5mg E4D and see how it grabs you.

If you tank your estrogen, that won’t be fun for you either. Libido will be gone but then your joints will ache badly too and you’ll be very very tired.
 
Smont

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Well, a number of guys here say that a test base isn't really necessary. Obviously, in my case it is. I guess I'm just surprised that I'm not feeling the prop yet since it's been about a week since I started my daily injections.

I chose those doses because 400 mg/wk is considered to be a fairly standard starting dose for DHB, and I started the Anavar at 50 mg/day for the first couple weeks and have been slowly increasing the dose.
In your case it's still not necessary. In no case is it necessary. But it should pretty much always be in place. Any how. You just started test what do you expect. It could take a couple weeks till you feel right
 
Old Witch

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In your case it's still not necessary. In no case is it necessary. But it should pretty much always be in place. Any how. You just started test what do you expect. It could take a couple weeks till you feel right
That’s true. It could take another week for what’s wrong in there to be righted without adding an AI or anything like that.
 
SpicedCider

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If you do 100mg a day, split it.

I’m taking 50mg a day upon waking only. Mainly because it’s expensive.

As far as Adex, 0.5mg EOD is a lot. Might be too much. Might not.

Usually that’s where I see others elsewhere telling people to start, personally I’m going up from 0.25mg e3D to 0.5mg e3d, and waiting four pins (12 days) to assess whether that’s enough for myself or not.

I usually recommend to start at 0.25-0.5mg E4D and see how it grabs you.

If you tank your estrogen, that won’t be fun for you either. Libido will be gone but then your joints will ache badly too and you’ll be very very tired.
In your case it's still not necessary. In no case is it necessary. But it should pretty much always be in place. Any how. You just started test what do you expect. It could take a couple weeks till you feel right
That’s true. It could take another week for what’s wrong in there to be righted without adding an AI or anything like that.
Thanks. In that case, I might give the test prop at least a few more days to kick in before I start the Arimidex.

Besides the lethargy...how is the DHB treating you?
Pretty well; I've actually been sick with a cold virus during the past week and have been on a required out-of-town trip for school (so diet and workout routine are kind of off), but I'm definitely looking leaner/harder and starting to make gains. So far, the strength increases at the gym are the most noticeable effect.
 

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