Fat loss after Holidays - 1st approach to Intermittent Fasting

Dark_Ansem

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alternate day fasting(ADF): 24 hours eating/24 hour fast repeat
eat stop eat: one or two 24 hour fasts per week on nonconsecutive days (basically a less aggressive alternate day fast)
intermittent fasting(IF): train fasted, have your biggest meal post workout and you have an eating window 4-8 hours long.

what to eat during a fast? stimulants, water, fiber, anything with no calories. you can toss in some vegetables when you first start to make it easier, just dont cook them with butter or something, that defeats the point of fasting.

what are they used for? all of them are used for burning fat. you can toss in a day or two of fasting per week on a bulk and turn it into a lean bulk. how long can they be used for? forever, the secret is that as long as your still hitting decent macros in IF you can maintain your metabolism. with ADF, you reset your metabolism every other day when you eat so your metabolism never slows. you can get down to pretty low bodyfat by using these methods, with ADF fat loss of 2lbs per week is very much doable without losing muscle. your weight will zig zag tho from a lack of carbs on fast day and you will lose a lot of water weight. if you dont eat enough carbs on your eat day you may start to look flat after some time, but all you have to do is skip a fasting day (eat 3 days in a row) and you get a glycogen supercompensation effect so u look even bigger.
so, after those holidays, I'd like to do some IF (intermittent fasting). Matter is, I train in the evening and want to take protein with water + bcaa after each weight training. Any help on how I should setup my fasting/training regime?
 

amateurfreak

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If you're doing lean gains version of IF, just eat 1 or 2 meals before your workout followed by a large post workout meal. Like it was recommended to you in another thread, Martin has a bunch of different layouts on his website and in the PDF. One of them is actually for people who train in the evening. Don't over think the diet because it really isn't that hard to follow but I would suggest taking the time to read the information available. As for ADF, I don't have any experience with that so I'll let someone else chime in.
 

Dark_Ansem

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this is the base protocol


12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).

I have to adjust it for me that train around 7.30 pm, whether it's weights or cardio.

after training I take the BCAA+protein I guess.
 

amateurfreak

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You could always push your 8hr meal window further back i.e. 2-10, 3-11, etc. You could also shorten the window to less then 8hrs if you go to sleep earlier as well. It's highly adaptable to your lifestyle.
 

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mm I'd say that eating window should be like 14-22/13.30-21.30 because, with showever and everything, a lot of time is lost.
 
huggy77

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I would also recommend making that 12-1 PM meal carb free... Most important part of IF, don't under eat. Make sure you get you calories...
 

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no carbs at all?
 
Geoforce

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no carbs at all?
I really like low carb diets or carb cycling. I always do best on them. Matter of fact I'm getting ready to do UD 2.0 again and three days of my week will essentially be no carbs or trace carbs.

As for the IF stuff (which I utilize close to year round, even during UD 2.0) you really need to read leangains for the information at best. And then remember to not get too anal about the window. The best part as was said earlier is how adaptable it is. And if lunch cuts your window a bit short or long either way I wouldn't sweat it.
 
bla55

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I really like low carb diets or carb cycling. I always do best on them. Matter of fact I'm getting ready to do UD 2.0 again and three days of my week will essentially be no carbs or trace carbs.

As for the IF stuff (which I utilize close to year round, even during UD 2.0) you really need to read leangains for the information at best. And then remember to not get too anal about the window. The best part as was said earlier is how adaptable it is. And if lunch cuts your window a bit short or long either way I wouldn't sweat it.
Gave him the book for IF, he wasn't interested in reading it.
 

Dark_Ansem

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I really like low carb diets or carb cycling. I always do best on them. Matter of fact I'm getting ready to do UD 2.0 again and three days of my week will essentially be no carbs or trace carbs.

As for the IF stuff (which I utilize close to year round, even during UD 2.0) you really need to read leangains for the information at best. And then remember to not get too anal about the window. The best part as was said earlier is how adaptable it is. And if lunch cuts your window a bit short or long either way I wouldn't sweat it.
read the book, but still have some doubts tbh. can you post what you do?
 

Dark_Ansem

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makes sense I guess
 
bla55

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LOL, now after I tried helping, showed the ropes, provided with a book, gave info, to top it all off, he goes on a neg'ing vendetta on me. Hilarious. Going far in life, kid. Going far in life.
 

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Really thinking about giving IF a go this year, a lot people rave about it
I cannot post links yet, but for your convenience
On training days (3x/week), eat maintenance + 20%
• Keep carbs high, protein moderate and fat low. Carbs should be the dominant
macronutrient this day.
• Split the meals so that you get 60-80% of total calorie intake in the post-workout period,
either by eating one pre-workout meal of 20% of total calorie intake per the example
provided earlier. If you workout in the evening, eat two meals, each of 20% total calorie
intake, and then one big meal of 60% post-workout.
• Good food choices this day includes sweet potatoes, oatmeal, and other sources of
complex carbs and lean protein sources such as chicken, fat-trimmed beef and white fish.
Don’t be afraid to add some carb dense treats in the post-workout period, such as cereal,
low fat ice cream and similar foods. You get to eat quite a lot post-workout and there’s no
use being extremely obsessive by only eating “clean” foods.
On rest days (4x/week), eat maintenance – 20%
• Keep protein high, fat moderate and carbs low. Protein should be the dominant
macronutrient this day.
• Split the meals so that you get 35% of total calorie intake and at least (body weight x 0.4)
grams of protein in your first meal.
• Add some low or moderate intensity cardio to speed up fat loss.
• Good food choices this day includes lots of veggies, moderate amounts of fruit and berries,
lean and fattier type of meats like ground beef and fish like salmon, whole eggs and egg
whites, and good fat sources like avocado, olives and almonds.
• Always end this day with a slow digesting protein source such as casein or meat with some
veggies to slow digestion.
EDIT: just stating the obvious, but this comes from the author's PDF "the Leangains approach final". He's also got a book in the works, unsure if he has completed it yet.

the protocols are over the main website of the author.

this is day 1 for me. let's see if the hype is matched.

apparently BCAA before workout don't count as feed time.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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this is the base protocol


12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).

I have to adjust it for me that train around 7.30 pm, whether it's weights or cardio.

after training I take the BCAA+protein I guess.
Do I have to follow this meal plan even on non-training days?
 

Dark_Ansem

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day 0/1 passed. was cranky up til the first meal lol.
I have to say I expected more weight loss but, to be fair, I have more bf than what author recommends.
 

joh408

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It was day 1 man. Takes a bit to get used to fasting but it works. I've lost about 10 pounds in 3 weeks. Just tough it out for a bit to see if this diet works for you.
 

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day 0/2. am 200g more than yesterday :p
 
bla55

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So, you're accessing the efficiency of a diet based on a 2 day result?
 
Geoforce

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I like to actually assess my diets by the hour. If I haven't lost a pound in an hour I'll assume the diet is crap :dunno:
 

Dark_Ansem

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No. I am trying to make a day-by-day log by registering everything.
 
bla55

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I like to actually assess my diets by the hour. If I haven't lost a pound in an hour I'll assume the diet is crap :dunno:
01.04.2013, Minute: 660; haven't felt much of a change from Minute 559. Will re-access the situation on 661, although I feel slightly hungrier than 558.

Edit: Minute 665, I feel less hungry than on 558. May be due to the coffee I just drank, but I am not 100% positive.
 

Dark_Ansem

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I like to actually assess my diets by the hour. If I haven't lost a pound in an hour I'll assume the diet is crap :dunno:
I think this was sarcasm aimed at me ;)
 
Geoforce

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I think this was sarcasm aimed at me ;)
Yeah, but it's common place if you're just starting out and a common problem. Whether it's supplements, diets, training, whatever changes don't take place overnight and over or under reacting to the lack of changes often makes things worse. Come in with a solid plan, stick to it for a while to give it a chance to honestly gauge your response, then make adjustments.

I need to drop some fat. I didn't get that extra fat overnight. And I won't get ripped overnight. It's a process.
 

Dark_Ansem

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Yeah, but it's common place if you're just starting out and a common problem. Whether it's supplements, diets, training, whatever changes don't take place overnight and over or under reacting to the lack of changes often makes things worse. Come in with a solid plan, stick to it for a while to give it a chance to honestly gauge your response, then make adjustments.

I need to drop some fat. I didn't get that extra fat overnight. And I won't get ripped overnight. It's a process.
then again, I wasn't passing any judgment. to be accurate one should register often info and then make an average.
 

Dark_Ansem

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Day 0/3. A bit more weight again? I dunno. Trying to cope with fasting in a better way.
 

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day 0/4: the last day was kinda cheated because my sis wanted a pizza before she left and my parents nade nothing else to eat, so a lot of carbs on a non-training day. no weight loss at all, in fact, some weight increase. ah well.

I still would like someone who does leangains AND trains in the evening to share their eating regime, if they please :)
 
jswain34

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day 0/4: the last day was kinda cheated because my sis wanted a pizza before she left and my parents nade nothing else to eat, so a lot of carbs on a non-training day. no weight loss at all, in fact, some weight increase. ah well.

I still would like someone who does leangains AND trains in the evening to share their eating regime, if they please :)
There is literally a layout for this on Martins website...its really not hard dude. Leangains is honestly really simple, its so simple that you feel like it can't be that simple so you try and overcomplicate it (if that makes sense). I did the same thing when I first started. Seriously...its THAT simple.
 

Dark_Ansem

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I know I posted it in the previous page. I guess it is the same layout for workout and non-workout days.

BTW

Day 1: down again, by very little. today is a wo day so I kinda expect a good meal after the evening workout :p

EDIT: for referencing purposes, the actual guide is here. obviously not mine blah blah blah. nice to see it archived in a blog for a change :)
 
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Dark_Ansem

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day 2. almost a whole kg down. I did think I had fallen into the overeat sin, however. will try harder today.
 
huggy77

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perhaps letting us know what you ate, when you ate it would be helpful as well...

I am always curious to see how people handle their eating windows and carb consumption.
 

Dark_Ansem

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tried to follow it by the book. lots of carbs, moderate protein and trying to keep fat as low as possible.
 
Geoforce

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tried to follow it by the book. lots of carbs, moderate protein and trying to keep fat as low as possible.
I can't open that link at work, but the first thing I would do is lower carbs and increase protein intake. I have no idea why one would try to keep fat as low as possible either.
 

Dark_Ansem

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on Workout days the author says that Carbs should be the highest priority, protein middle and fat lowest.

straight from author pdf, for your convenience.
On training days (3x/week), eat maintenance + 20%
• Keep carbs high, protein moderate and fat low. Carbs should be the dominant
macronutrient this day.
• Split the meals so that you get 60-80% of total calorie intake in the post-workout period,
either by eating one pre-workout meal of 20% of total calorie intake per the example
provided earlier. If you workout in the evening, eat two meals, each of 20% total calorie
intake, and then one big meal of 60% post-workout.
• Good food choices this day includes sweet potatoes, oatmeal, and other sources of
complex carbs and lean protein sources such as chicken, fat-trimmed beef and white fish.
Don’t be afraid to add some carb dense treats in the post-workout period, such as cereal,
low fat ice cream and similar foods. You get to eat quite a lot post-workout and there’s no
use being extremely obsessive by only eating “clean” foods.

On rest days (4x/week), eat maintenance – 20%
• Keep protein high, fat moderate and carbs low. Protein should be the dominant
macronutrient this day.
• Split the meals so that you get 35% of total calorie intake and at least (body weight x 0.4)
grams of protein in your first meal.
• Add some low or moderate intensity cardio to speed up fat loss.
• Good food choices this day includes lots of veggies, moderate amounts of fruit and berries,
lean and fattier type of meats like ground beef and fish like salmon, whole eggs and egg
whites, and good fat sources like avocado, olives and almonds.
• Always end this day with a slow digesting protein source such as casein or meat with some
veggies to slow digestion.
 
bla55

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Fats and Protein are the predominant nutrients on any day that you are not training. And carbs shouldn't be added until close to workout period, which means in your first meal they should be close to null.
 
Geoforce

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Well that makes more sense than what I read your post as which read to me like high carbs every day. I do best on carb cycling or low carb diets when it comes to fat loss. Obviously I'd increase these on workout days, but even then if I'm trying to lose fat I rarely go overboard with them.
 

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I wonder if this can be applied also for those who train in the evening, considering that the 2nd meal is still supposed to be around 2hrs before the workout. or I am mistaken?
 
Geoforce

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I wonder if this can be applied also for those who train in the evening, considering that the 2nd meal is still supposed to be around 2hrs before the workout. or I am mistaken?
You're making this too complicated. I train in the afternoon. Window is from 12-8. If you train later just adjust your window. Eat however you want to just make it within an 8 hour window. That's intermittent fasting.

The details are entirely up to you. You can pretty much adjust any diet to make it IF. You just switch everything to be within the window.
 

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that's simply not possible. Every diet I have done was like "eat tibetan fungi, madagascarian meat and north pole's water. put everything into a cauldron, stick counter-clockwise and eat only during a full moon".
whatever I want to eat in a 8-period window as long as I say around 2000 calories in the whole period... it's just wrong :p
 
Geoforce

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that's simply not possible. Every diet I have done was like "eat tibetan fungi, madagascarian meat and north pole's water. put everything into a cauldron, stick counter-clockwise and eat only during a full moon".
whatever I want to eat in a 8-period window as long as I say around 2000 calories in the whole period... it's just wrong :p
Planets used to revolve around the Earth, thinking they revolved around the sun was just wrong :)
 
Ape McGrapes

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I don't see the point of "eat 25% of cals in your first meal, then biggest meal PWO" blah blah blah.

I just started LG, and I just eat 3 balanced meals in the 8 hour window, with 2 extra protein shakes.

Eating a consistent diet seems more important to me, than the whole % bull****.

Eat healthy and train whenever you want in your 8 hour window.
 
bla55

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I don't see the point of "eat 25% of cals in your first meal, then biggest meal PWO" blah blah blah.

I just started LG, and I just eat 3 balanced meals in the 8 hour window, with 2 extra protein shakes.

Eating a consistent diet seems more important to me, than the whole % bull****.

Eat healthy and train whenever you want in your 8 hour window.
Well, then you didn't quite start LG, you started "an intermittent fasting" diet. Because LG does have the focus on eating the most after your workout exactly because of replenishing your body caloric needs after intense exercise.

But that is the diet's premise. Nothing wrong with choosing a different approach but that particular approach is the main concept of LG.
 
Ape McGrapes

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Well, then you didn't quite start LG, you started "an intermittent fasting" diet. Because LG does have the focus on eating the most after your workout exactly because of replenishing your body caloric needs after intense exercise.

But that is the diet's premise. Nothing wrong with choosing a different approach but that particular approach is the main concept of LG.
Fair enough, but I don't see the huge significant difference it would totally make. Like I said, I think consistency is more the key, and for those of us who are to busy to adhere to the % rules, or who cant grasp the idea without making it more difficult than needed; This is the way to go.

The fast is the most important part anyway; right?
 
bla55

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Fair enough, but I don't see the huge significant difference it would totally make. Like I said, I think consistency is more the key, and for those of us who are to busy to adhere to the % rules, or who cant grasp the idea without making it more difficult than needed; This is the way to go.

The fast is the most important part anyway; right?
Yep, I follow a bit of the same indeed. I don't gun for the 25% because I get quite starving by 1PM so I end up eating about 30 - 40%, and then just skip my "preworkout" meal and have a handful of peanuts instead.

I do, although, load up big time on my last meal(s) - if you count the immediately post workout shake as a meal - and try to balance it out as having just fat and protein in the early meal and then do some carbs on the latest one whenever I workout.
 
huggy77

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Yep, I follow a bit of the same indeed. I don't gun for the 25% because I get quite starving by 1PM so I end up eating about 30 - 40%, and then just skip my "preworkout" meal and have a handful of peanuts instead.

I do, although, load up big time on my last meal(s) - if you count the immediately post workout shake as a meal - and try to balance it out as having just fat and protein in the early meal and then do some carbs on the latest one whenever I workout.
man up! on your weight training days save those calories for when you are done training and you have all sorts of good hormones flowing due to exercise....

the best part about IF is the hormonal boosts it gives a natural trainee....

The honorable prophet Dr. John Berardi had a nice write-up on this...

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting
 
huggy77

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and for the record, after a week or two you wont be that hungry when you break fast...
 
Ape McGrapes

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IM around maintenance calories, and about 150g carbs. Slowly dropping carbs week by week. Just cut out my milk in my two shakes, except for PWO. That should bring me around 100g for week 2. Ill maybe drop another 25g next week and leave it there. IDK though, since I'm on recompadrol.

Replacing the milk with an extra 1/2 cup 4% cottage cheese.
 
bla55

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and for the record, after a week or two you wont be that hungry when you break fast...
I've been on it for quite a while. I don't suffer much during the morning, but once the first bite goes in I have a very very hard time to stop eating... Maybe it's the anabeta, who knows.

Ape McGrapes
IM around maintenance calories, and about 150g carbs. Slowly dropping carbs week by week. Just cut out my milk in my two shakes, except for PWO. That should bring me around 100g for week 2. Ill maybe drop another 25g next week and leave it there. IDK though, since I'm on recompadrol.

Replacing the milk with an extra 1/2 cup 4% cottage cheese.​


Have you tried Almond milk? I found that to be a very good and tasty (vanilla flavor unsweetened is delicious with cookies and cream whey) replacement for the milk with no sugar, no carbs and some very good fats.
 
Ape McGrapes

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I've been on it for quite a while. I don't suffer much during the morning, but once the first bite goes in I have a very very hard time to stop eating... Maybe it's the anabeta, who knows.



Have you tried Almond milk? I found that to be a very good and tasty (vanilla flavor unsweetened is delicious with cookies and cream whey) replacement for the milk with no sugar, no carbs and some very good fats.
[/INDENT]
I have thought about it. Ill be grocery shopping tomorrow for the usual Ground Turkey, Chicken, Sweet Potato's etc... I'm balling on a budget though, so if I can fit it I will. Really though, I tend to slam the shakes back in between meals, so water wouldn't bother me. Probably need to get my water intake up too.
 

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