Fat in pre/post nutrition
- Thread starter Jeffrw
- Start date
Jeffrw
New member
glenihan said:
I'm assuming then you haven't read some of bobo's posts in regards to gylcogen "depletion" (or lack thereof) during excercise?
There are several things that can be accomplished with addition of fats. Many healthy dietary fats help release stored body fat. A nice chunk of energy from weightlifting comes from intramuscular triglycerides and ffa. So it's reasonable that consuming healthy fats before a weight training session would increase both workout energy and fat burning. Not to mention healthy fats's effect on natural testosterone. And considering that the body is a fat burning mode post-workout, consuming a substance that will help the body release even stored adipose seems good to me. Healthy fats have also been shown to enhance recovery as well. ANother reason they might be a good addition to a post-workout meal/drink.
I'm simply looking for more information/experience/testimonials on the use of fat around workout times.
I think it's a very overlooked nutrient by many of us.
t-bone2
Member
Could you point to the posts you're referring to where he specifically refers to the use of FATS in regard to glycogen "depletion?" I've never heard anyone with more than a rudimentary knowledge of nutrition advocating fats pre- or PWO, including Bobo. Perhaps you have more recent data, however.Jeffrw said:
Some useful data can be found below (and make sure you check out posts 937 and 961):
Invalid Link Removed
Jeffrw
New member
t-bone2 said:
In like every thread he argues against using sugar and high GI carbs and talks how we don't get depleted as much as we think, he usually slips in that because of the nature of weighlifting we get the majority of energy from ffa. I'll post a link in a minute.
*EDIT* Good link, nice read. However in regards to specific fats (I don't think I saw any mentioned in that link, just the generic term "fat") I am refering to an MCT pre-workout (like extra virgin coconut oil) and olive oil pwo.
glenihan
Registered User
i don't see how that translates into using fats near your workout .. those oxidized FFA's were already in your body ... fat is too inefficient of an energy source to give you extra energy for a workout if its just consumed .. it really slows down digestion .. this means any protein and carbs consumed post workout will take longer to get into your system and be utilized .. totally negates the purpose of using whey protein
Mulletsoldier
Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
Well, my own opinion is that fats, whether liquid or solid have no place in Pre/Post WO nutrition. On the Bobo side, I am not sure where you would have heard him say that, I believe actually he has stated a few times his disagreement with having fats anywhere near Pre/Post WO nutrition.
In terms of the FFAs, he was speaking of glycolytic stores last for approximately 30-50 seconds of a lift, and oxidation takes place until failure of the muscle is reached. He was speaking about FFAs b/c the common belief is that our body is completely depleted of glycogen after a workout, when in fact it is not. That doesn't mean you should ingest fats Pre/Post-WO however, you read the posts/research wrong.
In terms of the FFAs, he was speaking of glycolytic stores last for approximately 30-50 seconds of a lift, and oxidation takes place until failure of the muscle is reached. He was speaking about FFAs b/c the common belief is that our body is completely depleted of glycogen after a workout, when in fact it is not. That doesn't mean you should ingest fats Pre/Post-WO however, you read the posts/research wrong.
Mulletsoldier
Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
The point I was trying to make is the metabolization of fats and carbohydrates are not in the same in so far as providing your body with fuel before a workout.
rkieltyk
Member
Adding fat calories to meals after exercise does not alter glucose tolerance.
* Fox AK,
* Kaufman AE,
* Horowitz JF.
Division of Kinesiology, The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2214, USA.
A single session of exercise increases insulin sensitivity for hours and even days, and dietary carbohydrate ingested after exercise alters the magnitude and duration of this effect. Although increasing systemic fatty acid availability is associated with insulin resistance, it is uncertain whether increasing dietary fat availability after exercise alters the exercise-induced increase in insulin sensitivity. The purpose of this study was to determine whether adding fat calories to meals after exercise alters glucose tolerance the next day. Seven healthy men cycled 90 min at 66 +/- 2% peak oxygen uptake followed by a maximum of five high-intensity intervals. During the hours after exercise, subjects ingested three meals containing either low-fat (5% energy from fat) or high-fat (45% energy from fat) foods (Low-Fat and High-Fat groups, respectively). Each diet contained the same amount of carbohydrate and protein. An oral glucose tolerance test was performed the next morning. Muscle glycogen and intramuscular triglyceride (IMTG) concentrations were measured in muscle biopsy samples obtained immediately before exercise and the next morning. The day after exercise, muscle glycogen concentration was identical in High-Fat and Low-Fat (393 +/- 70 and 379 +/- 38 mmol/kg dry wt). At the same time, IMTG concentration was approximately 20% greater during High-Fat compared with Low-Fat (42.5 +/- 3.4 and 36.3 +/- 3.3 mmol/kg dry wt; P < 0.05). Despite the addition of approximately 165 g of fat to meals after exercise ( approximately 1,500 kcal) and a resultant elevation in IMTG concentration, glucose tolerance was identical in High-Fat and Low-Fat (composite index: 8.7 +/- 1.0 and 8.4 +/- 1.0). In summary, as long as meals ingested in the hours after exercise contain the same carbohydrate content, the addition of approximately 1500 kcal from fat to these meals did not alter muscle glycogen resynthesis or glucose tolerance the next day.
PMID: 14978010 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
edit: citations
* Fox AK,
* Kaufman AE,
* Horowitz JF.
Division of Kinesiology, The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2214, USA.
A single session of exercise increases insulin sensitivity for hours and even days, and dietary carbohydrate ingested after exercise alters the magnitude and duration of this effect. Although increasing systemic fatty acid availability is associated with insulin resistance, it is uncertain whether increasing dietary fat availability after exercise alters the exercise-induced increase in insulin sensitivity. The purpose of this study was to determine whether adding fat calories to meals after exercise alters glucose tolerance the next day. Seven healthy men cycled 90 min at 66 +/- 2% peak oxygen uptake followed by a maximum of five high-intensity intervals. During the hours after exercise, subjects ingested three meals containing either low-fat (5% energy from fat) or high-fat (45% energy from fat) foods (Low-Fat and High-Fat groups, respectively). Each diet contained the same amount of carbohydrate and protein. An oral glucose tolerance test was performed the next morning. Muscle glycogen and intramuscular triglyceride (IMTG) concentrations were measured in muscle biopsy samples obtained immediately before exercise and the next morning. The day after exercise, muscle glycogen concentration was identical in High-Fat and Low-Fat (393 +/- 70 and 379 +/- 38 mmol/kg dry wt). At the same time, IMTG concentration was approximately 20% greater during High-Fat compared with Low-Fat (42.5 +/- 3.4 and 36.3 +/- 3.3 mmol/kg dry wt; P < 0.05). Despite the addition of approximately 165 g of fat to meals after exercise ( approximately 1,500 kcal) and a resultant elevation in IMTG concentration, glucose tolerance was identical in High-Fat and Low-Fat (composite index: 8.7 +/- 1.0 and 8.4 +/- 1.0). In summary, as long as meals ingested in the hours after exercise contain the same carbohydrate content, the addition of approximately 1500 kcal from fat to these meals did not alter muscle glycogen resynthesis or glucose tolerance the next day.
PMID: 14978010 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
edit: citations
Mulletsoldier
Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
rkieltyk said:
Great study, two things though. 1) I said nothing about fats, liquid or not, having any inhibitory effects on glycogenesis, and that is not my quam with fats Pre/Post WO. 2) You cited a study which focused on aerobic activity which entails a different response in the body in terms of FFA oxidation and glycogenesis than weighlifting. Also, to harken back to point one, the study does not deal with the main issue of lipid ingestion Pre-WO in so far as body composition consequences (or more specifically the processes therein). So while the study has some applicability, there is not much in terms of the application we are talking about.
Fats are just not the ideal energy source for our application, and can have some negative effects and should not be used for Pre/Post WO nutrition IMO.
P.S. You should also cite studies when you bring them up.
Popa Murph
Member
For me it depends on when I work out. If it's an AM workout no fat Pre/Post, if it's a evening workout I will have it in my pre-workout meal not in PWO though. That's just because I generally try to eat carbs early in the day and fats in the evening.
Mulletsoldier
Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
rkieltyk said:
Yes, but the 90 min base exercise wasn't intervals.
And it's no biggie obviously, just when you cite people can research further if they choose.
alan aragon
Member
In most cases, I really don't think a small amount of fat is gonna be detrimental either pre or postworkout. It's a matter of proportion. If fat is the dominant macro on either end, then I'd say you're doing thing ass-backwards.
juggernaut333
Member
heck,theres a million training and dietary myths that have been and continue to be blown out of the water and shown to be false,so its always good to keep an open mind
personally the biggest thing i see flawed with this would be(again this is me personally and my stomach)the fact that even thinking about drinking oil or any other type of fat either pre or especially post workout makes me wanna hurl.noooo thank you
personally the biggest thing i see flawed with this would be(again this is me personally and my stomach)the fact that even thinking about drinking oil or any other type of fat either pre or especially post workout makes me wanna hurl.noooo thank you
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
Jeffrw said:
Fats slow down digestion.
Liquid fats, solid fats, it doesn't matter, they're all liquid fats by the time they make it to the intestine.
If taken in abundance, it becomes more feasible for them to skip the absorption step and leave the body (to put it cleanly). So taking pre/post workout fats will not only slow absorbtion, but hinder it as well.
Mulletsoldier
Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
Nitrox said:
I personally never said anything like that, merely pointing out Fats are not the optimal Pre/Post-WO nutrition energy source, and if too much is present on a consistent basis you could have some negative consequences.
Mulletsoldier
Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
Nitrox said:
Ahh gotcha. Sorry for the assumption.