Unanswered Fastest Way to lose weight with minimal muscle?

[SouthPawSD]

Hey all,

So looking to lose some weight, college baseball coach wants me to drop down about 15/20 lbs to improve my athleticism. Kind of a weird circumstance, but basically as a baseball pitcher I have gotten too big from all the power lifting things they have had me doing (makes no sense, right? anyways...) and want me more lean and flexible.

I have already come to grips with the fact I will lose muscle and strength, but when they are paying for your college you jump through all the hoops they give you.

Current ideas I have are:

Lyle Mcdonald's Rapid Fat loss diet ( a version on PSMF)
Carb cycling with maint days and -1500 cal days
Slight deficit (1000-500) with large amounts of cardio everyday

as for fat burning supplements:
ECA and T3 (50mg-100mg/day) or
possibly clen (80mcg 2wks on, 2 off) and T3 (taper 50mg-100mg/wk)

Test P 175mg/wk to help maintain muscle

Workout:
Basically fullbody 2-3 times a week
Baseball practice 5 days a week


Yes I know I will lose muscle with these extreme measures. I am ok with that, that is actually part of the goal.

Anyways what ideas would anyone add? I feel like the best will include high levels of cardio. Also leaning towards workout days with more cals to workout harder.

Keto I feel like would compromise my workouts and energy levels too much.

So the question, what would you do??

 

[THOR 70]

I’d stay away from the heavy stims as they could fry your cns and affect performance long term. Add anavar if you can source it. AAS and cal deficit at your age you should drop 20lbs in 4 weeks and keep more muscle than you think. Also, lay off the beer

 

[SouthPawSD]

I’d stay away from the heavy drums as they could fry your cns and affect performance long term. Add anavar if you can source it. AAS and cal deficit at your age you should drop 20lbs in 4 weeks and keep more muscle than you think. Also, lay off the beer

I'm guessing by heavy drums you mean the fat burners? haha Ya I'm still up in the air about those, but as a college student you have to live and die by caffeine sometimes!

I have legit anavar on hand, totally forgot about it. Would you add that to the low dose test?

and you just have to take the fun out of everything with the beer! just as long as you dont say the girls too!

 

[Beau]

Honestly, I would combine Keto with IF, and go heavy on the healthy fats.

Determine based on BMR, then drop 400 to 500 calories, but stay low card - with a possible 1X week re-feed.

Your energy will not suffer.

 

[THOR 70]

I'm guessing by heavy drums you mean the fat burners? haha Ya I'm still up in the air about those, but as a college student you have to live and die by caffeine sometimes!

I have legit anavar on hand, totally forgot about it. Would you add that to the low dose test?

and you just have to take the fun out of everything with the beer! just as long as you dont say the girls too!

Yes fixed it. Yes add to test. Anavar increases lipolysis. No, girls will aid in your cardio

 

[LeanEngineer]

girls will aid in your cardio

That's about the only cardio i do ha

 

[HIT4ME]

Lyle's protocol is very effective and should allow you to loose 3-4 pounds a week on it's own.

The T3 and drugs aren't necessary, if there is any chance you could be tested.

It MAY be difficult to do a PSMF if you have an athlete's activity level though. Leptin will go through the roof and you will become ravenous.

Muscle loss on a PSMF will be pretty minimal. Your strength will drop and you will deflate because of the glycogen depletion. The first two weeks you will think you are burning muscle like mad, because your strength will drop precipitously due to glycogen depletion. After 2 weeks you will stabilize and you may even be able to start gaining strength from that new baseline after that point.

I did a PSMF for about 6 months a couple years ago. If you want any help...feel free to ask here or in a DM.

 

[HIT4ME]

Also, your assumption that high levels of cardio will improve results and that keto will hinder results are a little off.

A PSMF will be the minimum level of caloric intake you need to retain lean tissue, but it has near 0 carb or fat intake so it will hinder your workouts just as much as a keto diet, maybe even moreso.

But if you need 2500 calories a day and you eat 800-1000, you will have a 1500 calorie a day deficit. That is a big deficit and burning that through exercise is tough.

However, as an athlete you may be putting in hours and hours in activity already, and if that is the case, a PSMF may be extremely difficult on a couple of levels, and not the right approach directly.

Not sure a low carb approach is right either in this situation for many of the same reasons.

More information on your activity levels, height, weight, age, bodyfat levels, etc. would be helpful.

 

[SouthPawSD]

Also, your assumption that high levels of cardio will improve results and that keto will hinder results are a little off.

A PSMF will be the minimum level of caloric intake you need to retain lean tissue, but it has near 0 carb or fat intake so it will hinder your workouts just as much as a keto diet, maybe even moreso.

But if you need 2500 calories a day and you eat 800-1000, you will have a 1500 calorie a day deficit. That is a big deficit and burning that through exercise is tough.

However, as an athlete you may be putting in hours and hours in activity already, and if that is the case, a PSMF may be extremely difficult on a couple of levels, and not the right approach directly.

Not sure a low carb approach is right either in this situation for many of the same reasons.

More information on your activity levels, height, weight, age, bodyfat levels, etc. would be helpful.

Hey thanks for the feedback and info! Ya as I reread some of what I wrote I realized sleep deprivation can kick in real quick ha

So stats:
6'4"
260
4 point bodyfat scale puts me at 15-20% bf
Lifting stats 1RM
Squat 615lb
Deadlift 650lbs
Power clean 305lbs
Bench 315lbs

Typical week
Full body lifting Mon Wed Fri. 60-90min workout. Lots of medball throws now
Baseball practice is about 60mins of throwing/drill then kind of just hanging around for 2 more hours
Tues Thurs 30-45mins of speed agility work

Now that I'm not so sleep depriy I've thought about TKD, with the carbs focused around my most intense workout of the day.

Honestly open to anything as well so fire away.

 

[HIT4ME]

OK, so, is your diet pretty locked in tight? I mean, do you tend to eat the same things day in and day out?

I am just thinking out loud here...

At that weight and height, I would guess your TDEE is somewhere around 3300-3700 cals/day pretty easily. Maybe even as high as 4000 calories.

If this were me, another strategy I MAY consider is to aim for the low end of that, or maybe at most a 200 calorie/day deficit for 5 days of the week and then throw in 2 days a week where you pretty much fast or limit the calories to 500/day.

At 500 calories/day that would put you in a 3,000 calorie deficit for that day, which is about 0.86 pounds of fat/day. Even if you pick 2 sedentary days to fast/modified fast, you would likely burn 2700 calories and a 2,200 calorie deficit is over a half pound.

If you use this approach, I would front load high protein and moderately high fats on the day following the fast and backload the majority of your carbs.

One other thought I have - have you logged your food intake? It is one of the pillars of any successful diet - and you may be surprised at what you eat right now and just how fast it comes off if you have even with a smaller deficit. If you start off logging and get results, you may find you don't need to take extreme measures at all. A lot of this is about slowly building habits that pull you toward your goal, rather than swimming up stream.

 

[Jcollis]

Something isn’t right here.
“but when they are paying for your college you jump through all the hoops they give you.”
They are paying for your college so your willing to do what they want. So considering all that, your plan Is to risk it all with PEDs as a tested athlete to lose a couple pounds, TO DO WHAT THEY WANT?!

how about just do what they want, eat less, more cardio. Or don’t.

 

[THOR 70]

Something isn’t right here.
“but when they are paying for your college you jump through all the hoops they give you.”
They are paying for your college so your willing to do what they want. So considering all that, your plan Is to risk it all with PEDs as a tested athlete to lose a couple pounds, TO DO WHAT THEY WANT?!

how about just do what they want, eat less, more cardio. Or don’t.

I’m assuming he has aspirations after college, or he feels he needs PEDs to stay competitive and keep his scholarship. Honestly, I sort of wished I would have juiced in college. Ton of guys do it and probably necessary for most to go pro. My life would have definitely been on a different trajectory...better, or worse depending how things would have played out.

Sounds like he is already been juicing with his numbers so no need to try and convince him other wise is how I look at it

 

[HIT4ME]

Something isn’t right here.
“but when they are paying for your college you jump through all the hoops they give you.”
They are paying for your college so your willing to do what they want. So considering all that, your plan Is to risk it all with PEDs as a tested athlete to lose a couple pounds, TO DO WHAT THEY WANT?!

how about just do what they want, eat less, more cardio. Or don’t.

I was thinking this angle a little too - so I see where you are coming from, but the fact of the matter is that collegiate athletes are a pretty elite group in a lot of cases, and in order to perform the way they do, 80% or more of them will require some enhancement. Get into a pro-level situation and I'd say it is more like a 99% of them require drugs.

Remember back in 1999 when Mark Macguire was crushing homeruns and they found androstenedione in his locker and it was all over the news? Well, everyone thought that NO ONE in baseball needed steroids and the only reason Macguire was such a slugger was because he was juicing. Then Canseco came out with his book and it turned out that everyone and their brother was juiced. People denied, until a bunch of Hall of Fame athletes took a big hit.

Steroids are even prevalent in the upper levels of high school sports - if you are the best of the best, you are gonna do whatever it takes to get a shot at the life that being an elite athlete can provide.

And yes, he could lose it during a drug test, but many, many people are getting away with it. The risk of taking drugs and having a 5% chance (realistically much less) of losing your scholarship is much better than the risk of under performing and having an 80% chance of losing it.

 

[SouthPawSD]

Something isn’t right here.
“but when they are paying for your college you jump through all the hoops they give you.”
They are paying for your college so your willing to do what they want. So considering all that, your plan Is to risk it all with PEDs as a tested athlete to lose a couple pounds, TO DO WHAT THEY WANT?!

how about just do what they want, eat less, more cardio. Or don’t.

Yes I get your logic, but and messed up as it sounds the school is the one providing the juice, and that was when I first got on it was when they guaranteed notice before tests and compounds that would be cleared by that time.

Also I'm of the opinion that if your not willing to take all risks necessary to get better than you don't want it bad enough. Especially in baseball, where PEDs have been rampant at the pro level. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just lying to themselves.

I'm not attacking either, just stating my opinion on the matter. But yes if they weren't supplying it now I wouldn't be on it.

I was thinking this angle a little too - so I see where you are coming from, but the fact of the matter is that collegiate athletes are a pretty elite group in a lot of cases, and in order to perform the way they do, 80% or more of them will require some enhancement. Get into a pro-level situation and I'd say it is more like a 99% of them require drugs.

Remember back in 1999 when Mark Macguire was crushing homeruns and they found androstenedione in his locker and it was all over the news? Well, everyone thought that NO ONE in baseball needed steroids and the only reason Macguire was such a slugger was because he was juicing. Then Canseco came out with his book and it turned out that everyone and their brother was juiced. People denied, until a bunch of Hall of Fame athletes took a big hit.

Steroids are even prevalent in the upper levels of high school sports - if you are the best of the best, you are gonna do whatever it takes to get a shot at the life that being an elite athlete can provide.

And yes, he could lose it during a drug test, but many, many people are getting away with it. The risk of taking drugs and having a 5% chance (realistically much less) of losing your scholarship is much better than the risk of under performing and having an 80% chance of losing it.

Couldn't agree more. This is just the world we live in now.

 

[SouthPawSD]

OK, so, is your diet pretty locked in tight? I mean, do you tend to eat the same things day in and day out?

I am just thinking out loud here...

At that weight and height, I would guess your TDEE is somewhere around 3300-3700 cals/day pretty easily. Maybe even as high as 4000 calories.

If this were me, another strategy I MAY consider is to aim for the low end of that, or maybe at most a 200 calorie/day deficit for 5 days of the week and then throw in 2 days a week where you pretty much fast or limit the calories to 500/day.

At 500 calories/day that would put you in a 3,000 calorie deficit for that day, which is about 0.86 pounds of fat/day. Even if you pick 2 sedentary days to fast/modified fast, you would likely burn 2700 calories and a 2,200 calorie deficit is over a half pound.

If you use this approach, I would front load high protein and moderately high fats on the day following the fast and backload the majority of your carbs.

One other thought I have - have you logged your food intake? It is one of the pillars of any successful diet - and you may be surprised at what you eat right now and just how fast it comes off if you have even with a smaller deficit. If you start off logging and get results, you may find you don't need to take extreme measures at all. A lot of this is about slowly building habits that pull you toward your goal, rather than swimming up stream.

I really like this idea, and kind of think it would be the best as of right now for me.

Yes I log food year round, I'm currently taking in 3500 cals a day and maintaining really nice.

and by the front/backloading, you mean first meal after breaking fast=high protein meal and then say... last meal of the that day back load the carbs?

 

[HIT4ME]

I really like this idea, and kind of think it would be the best as of right now for me.

Yes I log food year round, I'm currently taking in 3500 cals a day and maintaining really nice.

and by the front/backloading, you mean first meal after breaking fast=high protein meal and then say... last meal of the that day back load the carbs?

Yes - so if you're fasting and you break the fast with carbs, it often just leads to you looking for more and more carbs and things can get out of hand. High protein and moderately high fat early will help avoid this, in theory. Not saying you have to 100% avoid carbs, but make it more about protein and fats and at least minimal complex carbs.

Then later in the day, eat more carbs and replenish stores.

Also, if you do this, you may be surprised to find that your training suffers more the day after the fast then the actual day that you fast, it may be worth playing with.

Ideally, if you can tolerate it, I would think it would look like: Fast Day - Break fast with protein/fats - Train - backload with higher carbs post training to replenish muscle glycogen. Not saying you HAVE to do it this way, just a strategy.

 

[HIT4ME]

If you log everything, would you mind sharing a couple days worth of eating, macros, etc.?

 

[SouthPawSD]

If you log everything, would you mind sharing a couple days worth of eating, macros, etc.?

Sorry took me a minute to figure out the best way to post it!

I eat the same thing every day for lunch and breakfast unless I'm not home and traveling so I'll just post one day. Dinner just happens to be what the wife makes and since I was maintaining I didn't log it perfectly. Just estimations.

Also just realized it is in German... Trying to learn that language sorry I figure you can figure out which macros are what since they sound about the same.

Definitely looks like a poor college man's diet for sure with the ramen every day!

 

[THOR 70]

Drop the ramen. Pure inflammatory poison! Eat rice instead

 

[SouthPawSD]

Drop the ramen. Pure inflammatory poison! Eat rice instead

Ya its one of those things I had but had to eat until it is all gone! only have like 3 more packages haha

 

[HIT4ME]

Ok, so, I see a few little things here that are just kind of practice-makes-perfect items with dieting.

1. We don't really have a full log of what you eat here - it's just a log of a couple things during the day, but you have whatever at night. This is pretty typical, but if it goes in your mouth you should log it. It isn't about judging you as good or bad, but you estimate that you are eating 3,500 and maintaining - but we only have roughly 2,300 calories in the log and we don't know if you're eating 1,000 calories at the other meals or 2,000 calories.

2. You have a high caloric requirement, which allows you to get away with a lot - and you are. Are you eating 2 packages of ramen at a time? It may fit your macros, but it isn't really helping you.

3. If you were to eat more broccoli, kale, etc. and rice or a small amount of pasta even, and less ramen and frozen hashbrowns - you would be more full on less food and overall much healthier.

4. I'm moderately OK with the sliced ham, but it's still processed meat - there are better options out there.

5. Even despite the nitpicking, your macros are actually pretty good for a 2300 calorie diet.

Do you snack often? How does eating 3 meals a day feel to you? Is it enough? It is a little bit of "broscience" to say that you should be eating 6 meals a day, but I find that for some people eating 1-2 meals a day fits their mentality and for other people, having 4-5 meals fits their mentality better. If you are snacking and not logging it, I may consider cutting each meal down by 200-300 calories and allowing for a 200-300 calorie snack during the day, and potentially at night. These are not "free" - eat something healthy still, but having the plan to eat more often gives you less time between meals to avoid snacking. If you don't snack and 3 meals is working for you - then disregard this entire paragraph.

I would seriously get some more veggies in your diet too. I would consider using real potatoes instead of hash browns (although the nutrition on those isn't horrible - but are you cooking these in oil???), and look to rice or maybe some actual pasta instead of Ramen.

The good thing in your shoes is this. You could tighten this diet up to be health, and lose weight on a level of food that would make most people not even feel like they're dieting. If you cut to 3,000 calories/day for 5 days out of the week, that's 2500 calories in deficit or more = 2/3 of a pound per week.

Then if you semi-fast for 2 days a week at 500 calories/day - that would be another 6,000 calories or another 1 2/3 pound of fat loss in those two days. Total for a week = 2 1/3 pound of fat loss/week.

 

[Derek Wilson]

That's good. Like it.

 

[TheMovement]

Dont you receive free access to an Athletic Trainer and a Certified Strength and Conditioning coach? Id honestly go there.

Your diet and nutrition should be covered as well right on campus. Not to discredit any of the responses but if you are indeed a scholarship athlete then use the free resources that are CREDIBLE! We had all the above and a Registered Dietitian who specialized in athletic nutrition.