Faith and Gear Use

[peter01]

Been struggling with this as of late and would like others opinions.

Long story short, I've been slowly working on my faith over the past few years. But it wasn't until I hit rock bottom that I fully submitted myself to the Lord. I'm slowly picking up the pieces and am waiting for Him to guide me in the right direction. I have given up everything and am putting God and my wife and children first in my life.

I stopped all gear use. I was cruising on trt at 150mg, but decided to pct and try to restart my own production again. All self administered.

I never used gear for vanity or pride. Always low doses to keep making progress in the gym. At my age and test levels, there is little to no progress without it.

Would like to resume trt/cruise in the future but would like others experience on the matter.

All comments welcome, even the anticipated flame.

 

[Caldwood]

I totally see your point on wanting to be clean and "sober" if you will in the eyes of the Lord. I'm assuming your point of quitting your aas use was your stronger belief and having faith. Wanting to be a clean vessel. In my honest opinion I don't see the issue in the use of aas to support your attempt at trying to have a natural healthy and happy lifestyle. Natural being what your body should be doing but it just isn't cutting it. That is the case in alot of men and technology as well as advances in medical understanding allow us to know these things and either treat them medically or personally. Tamato / tomato in my opinion. I say go for your happiness and your health. You will be that much better for not only your family but your faith and Lord as well. Now if you were to go on a 5 PED blast and claim your cause not for vanity or personal gain I would call bull****, but your cause and use I would understand.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

One perspective is that anything can become a vice, to the point where you almost worship it, and that should be avoided, but just because something has the potential to become a vice doesn't mean you necessarily have to completely cut it out of your life. I view it like drinking; some people probably shouldn't even have one drink, but others can have a few drinks a few times a week and not run into issues with drunkenness and addiction. Hell, food can be a vice for some people; some people essentially die (over time) from eating too much food, but that doesn't mean food is evil or God dislikes food. If you were willing and able to give it up, and plan to use it responsibly, not letting it become something you worship or something that hurts other people around you or puts them at risk, then I can't really tell you you can't use it again. If you were really struggling to give it up at all, then there may be more of an argument that giving it up could help rid you of a vice and bring you closer to God, but it seems that you did give it up, and have your heart in the right place. I personally don't think there's anything "sinful" about using gear in a responsible manner, much in the same way I don't think there's anything sinful about having a a glass of wine or a beer, just be careful not to let it become your primarily focus or ruler in life. That's my $0.02, I hope it helps.

 

[tyga tyga]

Hey peter01 ! Glad to see you've posted again!

Romans 13:1-13:4

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval

If your TRT is prescribed then your use holds no wrong. However, IF it's illegal then check it against scripture. We're called to obey laws of the land for God put these laws in place.

You know you can PM me we've had great convo in the past!

 

[peter01]

I totally see your point on wanting to be clean and "sober" if you will in the eyes of the Lord. I'm assuming your point of quitting your aas use was your stronger belief and having faith. Wanting to be a clean vessel. In my honest opinion I don't see the issue in the use of aas to support your attempt at trying to have a natural healthy and happy lifestyle. Natural being what your body should be doing but it just isn't cutting it. That is the case in alot of men and technology as well as advances in medical understanding allow us to know these things and either treat them medically or personally. Tamato / tomato in my opinion. I say go for your happiness and your health. You will be that much better for not only your family but your faith and Lord as well. Now if you were to go on a 5 PED blast and claim your cause not for vanity or personal gain I would call bull****, but your cause and use I would understand.

One perspective is that anything can become a vice, to the point where you almost worship it, and that should be avoided, but just because something has the potential to become a vice doesn't mean you necessarily have to completely cut it out of your life. I view it like drinking; some people probably shouldn't even have one drink, but others can have a few drinks a few times a week and not run into issues with drunkenness and addiction. Hell, food can be a vice for some people; some people essentially die (over time) from eating too much food, but that doesn't mean food is evil or God dislikes food. If you were willing and able to give it up, and plan to use it responsibly, not letting it become something you worship or something that hurts other people around you or puts them at risk, then I can't really tell you you can't use it again. If you were really struggling to give it up at all, then there may be more of an argument that giving it up could help rid you of a vice and bring you closer to God, but it seems that you did give it up, and have your heart in the right place. I personally don't think there's anything "sinful" about using gear in a responsible manner, much in the same way I don't think there's anything sinful about having a a glass of wine or a beer, just be careful not to let it become your primarily focus or ruler in life. That's my $0.02, I hope it helps.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

It is not a vice at all. Only did so to improve my quality of life, which it did.

My concerns are whether the benefits outweigh the risks.

The clean vessel logic is a concern. I see your point about it addressing an underlying medical condition. Low test levels in this case. I am prone to depression and at times it consumes me. But in all fairness, the addition of test did not improve this. Test never gave me that "conquer the world feeling". At least not at the doses I was using.

The second concern is the legality of it. I tried the legit trt route, but budget doesn't allow it. Current insurance does not cover much in the way of trt. And as much as I try to convince myself otherwise, acquiring the gear any other way will eventually bring me problems. Maybe its a low risk, but at this moment, I fear hurting myself or my family again.

 

[peter01]

Hey peter01 ! Glad to see you've posted again!

Romans 13:1-13:4

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval

If your TRT is prescribed then your use holds no wrong. However, IF it's illegal then check it against scripture. We're called to obey laws of the land for God put these laws in place.

You know you can PM me we've had great convo in the past!

Tyga, so good to hear from you!

did not think you would remember me. Its been quite a while!

Had to read those verses a few times to understand. But I follow.

I suppose I have my answer.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

It is not a vice at all. Only did so to improve my quality of life, which it did.

My concerns are whether the benefits outweigh the risks.

The clean vessel logic is a concern. I see your point about it addressing an underlying medical condition. Low test levels in this case. I am prone to depression and at times it consumes me. But in all fairness, the addition of test did not improve this. Test never gave me that "conquer the world feeling". At least not at the doses I was using.

The second concern is the legality of it. I tried the legit trt route, but budget doesn't allow it. Current insurance does not cover much in the way of trt. And as much as I try to convince myself otherwise, acquiring the gear any other way will eventually bring me problems. Maybe its a low risk, but at this moment, I fear hurting myself or my family again.

Regarding the "clean vessel," what is it about using test that is "unclean?" That it has some potential negative health effects? Doesn't that make almost everything unacceptable? Is drinking a large soda sinful because it's bad for you? A candy bar? Etc. The legality of it is a different issue, and I'd say that, personally, it seems like the biggest and most relevant concern is that it could hurt your family at some point, even if it's unlikely. You want to provide for your family and help them, not hurt them. As for the whole "follow every law of the land all the time or you will face judgement," issue, does that also mean that you never drive over the speed limit in your car? That's a law of the land; is driving a little over the speed limit sinful? More people would probably say that driving too fast puts people in danger, and a hefty fine or penalty for that could hurt your family and/or other people, but it the act of just driving a hair over the posted speed limit sinning? Is jaywalking sinful? Etc. I don't mean to play devil's advocate, pardon the pun, for the sake of argument, but just to help us all think this over and come to as accurate and educated of a conclusion as possible. At the end of the day, if you think it puts your family at risk, even some small risk, then that may be your answer; it seems like you really care about them and don't want to put them at risk or in any danger. From a legal aspect, if you get caught doing something illegal, your family may suffer for it. I think that's where the legality aspect tyga mentioned comes into play. If there was no way you could possibly be caught, and no penalty for it (not sure why it'd be illegal at that point, but it's just hypothetical), should you still not use it because the law of the land dictates it? What about countries where the laws are in stark contrast to scripture? What of laws that require you to worship foreign Gods, or rulers/laws that require you to kill or steal from other people? Should these laws be obeyed because they are the laws of the land? I enjoy these sort of conversations.

 

[peter01]

I believe the scripture tyga quoted applies only if the laws coincide with God's laws. Otherwise, God's laws would supercede.

Regarding the clean vessel logic. I do believe God made us all a certain way. I was not blessed with the genetic makeup or test levels of a bodybuilder. For all I know, this may have been for a reason. Trying to circumvent this by chemical means is contrary to how God made me. Whether I am blasting 1g or running a low dose cruise makes no difference. At one point i will be judged. And i do believe this will be discussed.

And to clarify, yes, I am concerned that at one point my luck will run out and I may fall for a controlled delivery. How can I claim to follow Christ when I am risking the loss of my job and legal consequences. I'm the sole provider to my family. I don't even have any savings to cover attorneys costs.

Maybe I'm going off on a tangent or have become super paranoid. But the more I discuss this, the clearer things are becoming.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I believe the scripture tyga quoted applies only if the laws coincide with God's laws. Otherwise, God's laws would supercede.

Regarding the clean vessel logic. I do believe God made us all a certain way. I was not blessed with the genetic makeup or test levels of a bodybuilder. For all I know, this may have been for a reason. Trying to circumvent this by chemical means is contrary to how God made me. Whether I am blasting 1g or running a low dose cruise makes no difference. At one point i will be judged. And i do believe this will be discussed.

And to clarify, yes, I am concerned that at one point my luck will run out and I may fall for a controlled delivery. How can I claim to follow Christ when I am risking the loss of my job and legal consequences. I'm the sole provider to my family. I don't even have any savings to cover attorneys costs.

The more I discuss this, the clearer things are becoming.

If God made us all a certain way, and doing anything to improve on this "state of being" for lack of a better word, is contrary to God's will, does this only apply to chemical assistance? Is taking creatine not also trying to circumvent this? Citrulline? Bacopa, Noopepet, etc? Taking medication for diabetes or antibiotics for an infection? Are those last two not using chemicals to circumvent how God made you? It reminds me of the story of the man drowning and the boats from the Pursuit of Happiness. Is it possible that God gave us these tools, "natural" or otherwise, to help us? That's ignoring legality of course, as there are legal and illegal ways of obtaining many of these substances.

The risking of hurting your family by doing something illegal is a VERY valid concern, and that may be your answer to this question. If the other parts speak to you personally, then they're valid reasons, but I'm just not personally sold on the other concerns about the way God made us, but it's not me who is asking this question haha.

 

[peter01]

Yes the legality is the major difference in all those scenarios.

 

[NurseGray]

Legality is the only issue I see with AAS use. Medically I consider it safe. Morally I consider it just fine and faith wise I don't see an issue either. The lord provided you with test in your body it's what makes us men and we are made in his image so I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Yes the legality is the major difference in all those scenarios.

Ok, that makes sense. I was just confused if you were perhaps thinking that using anything, especially something "unnatural/chemical" to alter/improve your natural state of being was somehow contrary to God's will, regardless of how you obtained/acquired it, which I think can be a bit of a slippery slope leading to not using any supplements or medications at all, but it seems that this isn't your reasoning. Props for really caring about the well-being of your family man. That seems like the biggest factor at play here.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Legality is the only issue I see with AAS use. Medically I consider it safe. Morally I consider it just fine and faith wise I don't see an issue either. The lord provided you with test in your body it's what makes us men and we are made in his image so I see nothing wrong with it.

Pretty much. Of course, abusing AASs is bad, but abusing anything is bad, and there are a plethora of things that can be abused that people don't even think twice about most of the time. If AAS were somehow magically legalized tomorrow, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

 

[peter01]

Ok, that makes sense. I was just confused if you were perhaps thinking that using anything, especially something "unnatural/chemical" to alter/improve your natural state of being was somehow contrary to God's will, regardless of how you obtained/acquired it, which I think can be a bit of a slippery slope leading to not using any supplements or medications at all, but it seems that this isn't your reasoning. Props for really caring about the well-being of your family man. That seems like the biggest factor at play here.

I appreciate your last few sentences.

This is will be a major sacrifice for me. Lifting is the only hobby I enjoy. I've been doing it most of my life. Only time I made any progress was with the test.

Its a shame that its so misunderstood. Even finding a knowlegable doctor is difficult.

 

[NurseGray]

Pretty much. Of course, abusing AASs is bad, but abusing anything is bad, and there are a plethora of things that can be abused that people don't even think twice about most of the time. If AAS were somehow magically legalized tomorrow, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

So true. People are prescribed methadone among countless other drugs that are far more harmful that any AAS. Family is the most important thing and they are the only reason I choose to keep everything legal. I imagine AAS being legal in the future the way things are going on the recreational route. I just can't fathom why women can get monthly injections to regulate their hormones to not produce babies and they are against guys regulating their hormones to make muscle it's literally the same thing with different results

 

[tyga tyga]

??*

Some of the responses.

Don't seek for clarity from the internet, Peter. Instead, take it to the alter, pray for discernment regarding your question. If you feel a tiny inkling of guilt, the spirit is working on you.

Proverbs 3:11
My son, do not despise the LORD’s disciplineor be weary of his reproof,

Prov. 5:12 and you say, “How I hated discipline,and my heart despised reproof!

Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light,and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,

Prov. 10:17 Whoever heeds instruction is on the path to life,but he who rejects reproof leads others astray.

Prov. 12:1 **Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

Key word being reproof (correction)

 

[peter01]

Tyga,

In all fairness, the end result is the same. I believe everyone agrees that following the law would be the best way to honor myself and my family. It just so happens that it also coincides with honoring God.

FYI, that tiny inkling of guilt as you say has appeared many a times. Unfortunately I don't heed its warning until it is too late and the damage is done. I greatly wish to listen this time.

I've struggled with how the spirit works within us. This makes sense. So thank you for using the feeling of guilt as an example. Funny thing is I was not concerned about it until after I stopped completely.
I'd like to think my crashing test levels make me think more clearly.

 

[tyga tyga]

Conviction is a funny thing. We either ignore it or we listen.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

����*

Some of the responses.

Don't seek for clarity from the internet, Peter. Instead, take it to the alter, pray for discernment regarding your question. If you feel a tiny inkling of guilt, the spirit is working on you.

Proverbs 3:11
My son, do not despise the LORD’s disciplineor be weary of his reproof,

Prov. 5:12 and you say, “How I hated discipline,and my heart despised reproof!

Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light,and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,

Prov. 10:17 Whoever heeds instruction is on the path to life,but he who rejects reproof leads others astray.

Prov. 12:1 **Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

Key word being reproof (correction)

I agree that he shouldn't base his decisions on what people on the internet say, but other people, even on the net, can be a good way to educate ourselves and maybe be introduced to certain ideas or things we were not aware of. Many times I have talked with other people who have helped me make decisions, but the people I can call mentors have made it clear that, while they can give advice and suggestions, or even say what they'd do, they will not tell me what I should do, as only I can make that decision. That doesn't mean that we should never seek out new information or approaches/ideas. In fact, it is very possible that God could speak to us, even if indirectly, through our interactions and conversations with other people. Discussion with others could also help to clear up any misconceptions or misreadings we may have, as I know I have read things that have confused me, but became much more clear after discussing them with other people.

TL;DR:
While I wouldn't say it's wise to make decisions based on what random internet strangers say, even internet conversations can help us to strengthen, and perhaps even change or build upon, our beliefs and expand our knowledge. It's not a replacement for prayer, meditation, etc, but it can be a useful adjunct/supplement.

 

[youngandfree]

I believe the scripture tyga quoted applies only if the laws coincide with God's laws. Otherwise, God's laws would supercede.

Regarding the clean vessel logic. I do believe God made us all a certain way. I was not blessed with the genetic makeup or test levels of a bodybuilder. For all I know, this may have been for a reason. Trying to circumvent this by chemical means is contrary to how God made me. Whether I am blasting 1g or running a low dose cruise makes no difference. At one point i will be judged. And i do believe this will be discussed.

And to clarify, yes, I am concerned that at one point my luck will run out and I may fall for a controlled delivery. How can I claim to follow Christ when I am risking the loss of my job and legal consequences. I'm the sole provider to my family. I don't even have any savings to cover attorneys costs.

Maybe I'm going off on a tangent or have become super paranoid. But the more I discuss this, the clearer things are becoming.

You should listen to the Holy Spirit talking to you.

 

[Afi140]

??*

Some of the responses.

Don't seek for clarity from the internet, Peter. Instead, take it to the alter, pray for discernment regarding your question. If you feel a tiny inkling of guilt, the spirit is working on you.

Proverbs 3:11
My son, do not despise the LORD’s disciplineor be weary of his reproof,

Prov. 5:12 and you say, “How I hated discipline,and my heart despised reproof!

Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light,and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,

Prov. 10:17 Whoever heeds instruction is on the path to life,but he who rejects reproof leads others astray.

Prov. 12:1 **Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

Key word being reproof (correction)

to all of Tygas posts.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Random question tyga, but is your name based on William Blake's poem The Tyger (Tyger Tyger)?

 

[Piston Honda]

This guy was on the gas, then some nerve damage on a flight and then he looks like this. Convenient time for him to find Jesus too. Welcome home to Buffalo, Larry. (Lex)

 

[peter01]

Had no idea he was paralyzed...for years no less. I hope he has found peace.