FACTS FROM THE MONKEY STUDY (rad140)

YoungThor

YoungThor

Well-known member
I’m stupid and should’ve read the study before I stared taking rad, but it’s better late than never.

Things I learned:
  • .1mg per kg of body weight is close to 80% as effective as 1mg per kg of body weight. I’m 203 lbs. or about 92 kg. So I can take 9mg and expect almost 80% the results I would get from 92mg.
  • I’ll just copy and paste this point - “Given the well-established relationship between oral androgen use and liver stress indicators, we were quite pleased that at a dose 10-fold greater than the fully effective dose we saw minimal liver enzyme elevations.” So it’s pretty damn safe for the liver.
  • It did mess with lipids, as expected.
  • 6
    [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc.
    Object name is ml-2010-002508_0006.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4018048/bin/ml-2010-002508_0006.jpg[/IMG]
    As you can see lean tissue increase is dose dependent but the increase is not that huge after .1mg per kg of body weight. Changes in fat do occur but are pretty much statistically insignificant. So it’s better at promoting muscle gain compared to burning fat.
  • They observed a mean weight increase of 10% in just 28 days of testing. So that’d be equal to me gaining 20 pounds in 28 days. But I know I’m not a monkey haha.

    Anyway, for anyone interested in rad140, I hope this information helps. I started my cycle by using 15mg a day and felt great, but it was recommended I try 30mg a day. This spiked my blood pressure severely and I felt like hopping off the cycle. But I went back down to 10mg and will continue the ride at that dose. I feel good at this dose and if I’m anything like a lab monkey or a lab rat then 10mg is all I should need. I hope this was informative for anyone who is interested in what I consider to be by far the strongest sarm.
 
Most of this is non sense and these animals studies can’t be compared to humans and people need to stop comparing. The first argument is a real joke and any real trial can confirm that.
 
Mathb33 said:
Most of this is non sense and these animals studies can’t be compared to humans and people need to stop comparing. The first argument is a real joke and any real trial can confirm that.
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I don’t think it’s a joke. I believe sarms have a maximum effective dose that’s relatively low and if you go beyond that you’re just asking for more side effects.

Some people were talking in a thread recently about how old witch used to post about taking up to 50mg of lgd and 50mg of ostarine. I think that’s pretty pointless. Taking huge sarms doses isn’t going to turn it into dbol or winstrol. They’re best kept low so you can get the modest results you were hoping for and avoid the nasty side effects you were hoping to avoid. That’s the point of sarms.
 
But the last point from the study is pretty meaningless. I just put it up for fun. Of course humans aren’t going to have a 10% body weight increase when using rad for 28 days. Maybe if you’re a 100 pound girl you can achieve that. But a 200 something pound guy can’t expect that.
 
Ive done LGD and rad up to 45-50mg each and I’d say it’s getting pointless past 30mg and it becomes extremely toxic. I can certainly say that RAD at 10mg will not yield similar results as 25-30mg. Far from it. I’d say that rad and lgd at 10mg is extremely weak. Overall sarms are bad from my POV and my experience with them. They also are more toxic than 90% of people realise.
 
Mathb33 said:
Ive done LGD and rad up to 45-50mg each and I’d say it’s getting pointless past 30mg and it becomes extremely toxic. I can certainly say that RAD at 10mg will not yield similar results as 25-30mg. Far from it. I’d say that rad and lgd at 10mg is extremely weak. Overall sarms are bad from my POV and my experience with them. They also are more toxic than 90% of people realise.
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I agree about them being more toxic than people think. I’m concerned about with rad is kidney issues. There’s a lot of people online claiming they got really bad mid-lower back pain while on rad, and they believe it’s kidney issues. But of course none of them got blood work. The study I read didn’t even mention kidneys. But there’s so many people making that claim. I can’t ignore it.
 
Beard360 said:
Really depends on the sarm. Ostarine@50mgs is a lot safer than rad@50plus.



It's fine ime,even@50mgs.
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Now be completly honest like your life depends on it, did you get bloodworks on ostarine and rad? I hardly doubt it. Everyone comments on how this sarm or this sarm isn’t toxic but nobody got bloodwork done to even know
 
Ostarine at 50-60mg was harder on my lipids panels and liver enzyme than 600mg of deca and 400mg test.
 
Mathb33 said:
Ostarine is the sarm that’s got the nastiest effects on lipids panel and liver enzyme. It’s toxic garbage.
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^This^

I truly believe SARMS are a waste of time and the only reason ppl use it is because it’s “legal” and easy to get.
 
Beard360 said:
Hey, I'll su


I've experienced fat loss, less joint pain and mild muscle gain with it,but nothing spectacular,and few sides. These reports of toxicity from sarms, especially osta are bogus. How does anybody know it was the sarms causing problems and not the gram plus of injectables, orals,drinking on cycle,not controling BP on cycle,dehydration and poor diet...
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exactly!...or if what they are taking is even what it says it is...
 
Beard360 said:
Hey, I'll su


I've experienced fat loss, less joint pain and mild muscle gain with it,but nothing spectacular,and few sides. These reports of toxicity from sarms, especially osta are bogus. How does anybody know it was the sarms causing problems and not the gram plus of injectables, orals,drinking on cycle,not controling BP on cycle,dehydration and poor diet...
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Because there’s plenty of people here like me that were getting bloodwork done on sarms (not with other gear line you say). I don’t drink alcohol. I don’t smoke. I don’t want ANY processed food and I am at least as healthy as you or more and I am completly obsessed with this lifestyle. sarms are trash.
 
A big problem is that a lot of what is out there may be underdosed or not even the compound you think you are buying, even if there is a COA.
 
Sarms will mess with your lipids. I got bloodwork on a stupid dose of Sarms (I don't want to say how much because I feel quite stupid about it) , and my lipids were screwed. The liver was fine. They are quite liver safe. AND. You are not getting anything more from stupid doses, than you would from low doses. At least, that was how it was with me. The OP is right. Keep the doses as low as possible, that's the point of Sarms. It won't make you ronnie at any dosage. Nope. Get your mild gains, your recomp, with the lowest dosage possible. That's a win. No more than 20mgs I say. I am currently doing 10 mg Rad and 10 mg LGD with 250mg test, and frankly, I want to eliminate one of the sarms. Maybe I will.
 
Mathb33 said:
Because there’s plenty of people here like me that were getting bloodwork done on sarms (not with other gear line you say). I don’t drink alcohol. I don’t smoke. I don’t want ANY processed food and I am at least as healthy as you or more and I am completly obsessed with this lifestyle. sarms are trash.
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so because they didnt work for you sarms are trash?
 
Supposedly the first human trials will be completed this year for rad140. So by the end of 2020 we may see the first studies on humans come out. I’m actually just gonna play it safe and hop off until then. There’s so much information out there on AAS that I regret not starting a cycle of something like test and tbol or anavar. Oh well, back to the natty life.

I’m most concerned with kidney and heart issues related to blood pressure with rad. I’m not alone when I say rad140 really spikes blood pressure, but of course not everyone is as sensitive to this as I am.
 
And both Beard and Mathb could be right. There are people who run massive amounts of anadrol for years and are fine and there people who do the same thing and suddenly die at 40.

To be honest, basically all sarms feel toxic to me, but that’s me. Lgd might be the exception to that but I can’t justify taking that either because it’s not a powerful enough drug to make it worth shutting down my natural test. The results aren’t worth it for me.
 
When I took 33mg of lgd and 6mg of yk11 for 12 weeks, I was shocked that my lipids were not that affected. They took a hit but no where near as bad as I expected. And my liver was fine. But I still felt pretty sh1tty for a lot of the cycle, but that again comes back to me having blood pressure issues on all these sarms. For those that don’t get blood pressure issues, consider yourself lucky.
 
Documented liver injury for both lgd 4033 and rad 140:

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The presence of lgd and rad were confirmed in both cases with no contaminants
 
Rebuild said:
Documented liver injury for both lgd 4033 and rad 140:

Invalid Link Removed

The presence of lgd and rad were confirmed in both cases with no contaminants
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Wow, great add. I’m definitely stopping while I’m still ahead. We know next to nothing about sarms and what we think we know is often false. It’s what vendors want the truth to be, but the reality of the matter is that they are most likely way more toxic than we initially thought, while not even coming close to providing the results that traditional AAS give.
 
Beard360 said:
You sound like an emotional teenage girl
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That escalated quickly...



Back to the point, i have a theory on why generally people find SARMS weak when compared to AAS.

Remember that AAS have both AR mediated and non AR mediated (igf 1 increase, glucocorticoid inhibition) positive effects when it comes to building muscle and burning fat while SARMS are pure AR (androgen receptor) activators and produce no non-AR Mediated effects, and therefore we perceive them as "weaker".

IMHO sarms should be stacked with anabolics that have strong non AR mediated effects, like dbol or tren to get that synergistic effect.
 
YoungThor said:
Wow, great add. I’m definitely stopping while I’m still ahead. We know next to nothing about sarms and what we think we know is often false. It’s what vendors want the truth to be, but the reality of the matter is that they are most likely way more toxic than we initially thought, while not even coming close to providing the results that traditional AAS give.
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I totally agree and feel toxic on any sarm at any dosage. My plan is to only use test and mild orals from now on. Maybe EQ down the road.
 
Ways to get me to read a thread:

#1 - Include the word "Monkey" in the title.
 
Mathb33 said:
No I’m not. 95% of people never got bloodwork done on sarms so their reputation is faked and is a big joke.
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You’re just making up numbers and talking out of your ass lol.....

Sarms are extremely liver toxic....

I have gotten bloodwork done with every Sarms cycle I have done (6+) and my liver enzymes were anywhere from 100% to 600% above the high end of normal. My HDL and LDL were wrecked.

S23 gave me jaundice and I was pissing out protein and bilirubin.

This is with drinking a gallon+ of water everyday, and taking a liver guard every single cycle.

I don’t drink or smoke.

Yes, everyone’s body is different. Whoever says they had no change in their liver enzymes either has a iron liver or are lying to sell products (Tony Huge).

I have read countless logs where elevated ALT and AST were extremely high.

injectable Sarms were no better, if anything they were more harsh on my liver enzymes, Lipids and SHBG.
 
Geoffr said:
You’re just making up numbers and talking out of your ass lol.....

Sarms are extremely liver toxic....

I have gotten bloodwork done with every Sarms cycle I have done (6+) and my liver enzymes were anywhere from 100% to 600% above the high end of normal. My HDL and LDL were wrecked.

S23 gave me jaundice and I was pissing out protein and bilirubin.

This is with drinking a gallon+ of water everyday, and taking a liver guard every single cycle.

I don’t drink or smoke.

Yes, everyone’s body is different. Whoever says they had no change in their liver enzymes either has a iron liver or are lying to sell products (Tony Huge).

I have read countless logs where elevated ALT and AST were extremely high.

injectable Sarms were no better, if anything they were more harsh on my liver enzymes, Lipids and SHBG.
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whatever happened to tony huge?
 
johnny412 said:
whatever happened to tony huge?
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They just came out with a second documentary on him. I didn’t know there was a first one until I heard about the new one coming out. It was done by Vlad Yudin, the guy who directed all the generation iron movies.
 
Geoffr said:
You’re just making up numbers and talking out of your ass lol.....

Sarms are extremely liver toxic....

I have gotten bloodwork done with every Sarms cycle I have done (6+) and my liver enzymes were anywhere from 100% to 600% above the high end of normal. My HDL and LDL were wrecked.

S23 gave me jaundice and I was pissing out protein and bilirubin.

This is with drinking a gallon+ of water everyday, and taking a liver guard every single cycle.

I don’t drink or smoke.

Yes, everyone’s body is different. Whoever says they had no change in their liver enzymes either has a iron liver or are lying to sell products (Tony Huge).

I have read countless logs where elevated ALT and AST were extremely high.

injectable Sarms were no better, if anything they were more harsh on my liver enzymes, Lipids and SHBG.
Click to expand...
Sarms are a lot of hype. If everything you said is true (I do believe you), then that raises the question, why not just take oral AAS? The only reason I can think of is the semi-legality of sarms. But anyone who’s willing to obtain illegal AAS and possess them, and knows the truth about how toxic sarms are, would be better off just using the illegal drug. At least they’ll get better results for the risk they take.

Actually, I think it might be the case that dbol and winstrol are less toxic than sarms. Now that sounds crazy, but you’re not the first person I’ve heard mention sever liver issues from s23. I think you’d be less likely to encounter a problem of that severity taking things that we’ve always regarded as super toxic, like anadrol even. Anavar and tbol are probably as safe or safer than most sarms. This is a hypothesis of course. We need more blood work with sarms. But I think it could very well be the case that four weeks of dbol would give way better gains than 12 weeks of lgd, and you’d probably encounter less toxicity.
 
Geoffr said:
You’re just making up numbers and talking out of your ass lol.....

Sarms are extremely liver toxic....

I have gotten bloodwork done with every Sarms cycle I have done (6+) and my liver enzymes were anywhere from 100% to 600% above the high end of normal. My HDL and LDL were wrecked.

S23 gave me jaundice and I was pissing out protein and bilirubin.

This is with drinking a gallon+ of water everyday, and taking a liver guard every single cycle.

I don’t drink or smoke.

Yes, everyone’s body is different. Whoever says they had no change in their liver enzymes either has a iron liver or are lying to sell products (Tony Huge).

I have read countless logs where elevated ALT and AST were extremely high.

injectable Sarms were no better, if anything they were more harsh on my liver enzymes, Lipids and SHBG.
Click to expand...
Huh I think you got the wrong guy? I was pointing out exactly the same thing as you. And most people saying sarms didn’t affect their bloods didn’t get bloods . And yes good observation the 95% was a number I just shooted on top of my head. Everything you’ve said I think the same.
 
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Mathb33 said:
Huh I think you got the wrong guy? I was pointing out exactly the same thing as you. And most people saying sarms didn’t affect their bloods didn’t get bloods . And yes good observation the 95% was a number a just like this on top of my head. Everything you’ve said I think the same.
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Yeah he didn’t realize you guys are in agreement.
 
Geoffr said:
You’re just making up numbers and talking out of your ass lol.....

Sarms are extremely liver toxic....

I have gotten bloodwork done with every Sarms cycle I have done (6+) and my liver enzymes were anywhere from 100% to 600% above the high end of normal. My HDL and LDL were wrecked.

S23 gave me jaundice and I was pissing out protein and bilirubin.

This is with drinking a gallon+ of water everyday, and taking a liver guard every single cycle.

I don’t drink or smoke.

Yes, everyone’s body is different. Whoever says they had no change in their liver enzymes either has a iron liver or are lying to sell products (Tony Huge).

I have read countless logs where elevated ALT and AST were extremely high.
Click to expand...
YoungThor said:
Sarms are a lot of hype. If everything you said is true (I do believe you), then that raises the question, why not just take oral AAS? The only reason I can think of is the semi-legality of sarms. But anyone who’s willing to obtain illegal AAS and possess them, and knows the truth about how toxic sarms are, would be better off just using the illegal drug. At least they’ll get better results for the risk they take.

Actually, I think it might be the case that dbol and winstrol are less toxic than sarms. Now that sounds crazy, but you’re not the first person I’ve heard mention sever liver issues from s23. I think you’d be less likely to encounter a problem of that severity taking things that we’ve always regarded as super toxic, like anadrol even. Anavar and tbol are probably as safe or safer than most sarms. This is a hypothesis of course. We need more blood work with sarms. But I think it could very well be the case that four weeks of dbol would give way better gains than 12 weeks of lgd, and you’d probably encounter less toxicity.
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I think you hit the nail on the head, legality. For me it’s just ease of mind, they are legal to posses and purchase so I feel better about having them and also subconsciously I believe “hey if they are legal they can’t be that bad” which is stupidity.

Also I know Sarms work and my bloodwork always returns to normal after a few months off. With that being said I don’t know the long term effects which is scary but for whatever reason I keep coming back after a few months. I keep chasing that feeling, because rad140 gets me stupid vascular in the gym and the workouts are amazing.

I guess the one question I have would be is what are the long term effects of raising your AST and ALT for 2-3 months, twice a year?

I know the liver can repair itself/regenerate but what kind of real damage can be done every time you raise the values, also since there are no long term studies done I think that’s another reason why people continue to use sarms, ignorance is bliss.
 
Geoffr said:
I think you hit the nail on the head, legality. For me it’s just ease of mind, they are legal to posses and purchase so I feel better about having them and also subconsciously I believe “hey if they are legal they can’t be that bad” which is stupidity.

Also I know Sarms work and my bloodwork always returns to normal after a few months off. With that being said I don’t know the long term effects which is scary but for whatever reason I keep coming back after a few months. I keep chasing that feeling, because rad140 gets me stupid vascular in the gym and the workouts are amazing.

I guess the one question I have would be is what are the long term effects of raising your AST and ALT for 2-3 months, twice a year?

I know the liver can repair itself/regenerate but what kind of real damage can be done every time you raise the values, also since there are no long term studies done I think that’s another reason why people continue to use sarms, ignorance is bliss.
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That’s a very hard question to answer. All I can say is that we rarely ever see (I can’t think of an example) chronic PED users need a liver transplant. Instead, the severe cases usually end in heart failure. Kidney issues are also not unheard of but I don’t know if the drugs are directly damaging to the kidneys or if it’s the result of chronically high blood pressure. Either way, I do believe raising your liver enzymes for 4-6 months a year will have some kind of long term consequence if you continue to do this for several years or decades. It might not result in some kind of extreme health issue but it can’t be good.

And dude I know what you mean, rad140 was awesome and I was only on it for 2.5 weeks. Pumps were amazing, I felt like a beast in the gym. But my blood pressure issues made me feel like I was gonna have a heart attack.
 
Here are my liver enzymes on LGD
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The back pains are called back pumps. Taurine helps a lot
"back pumps" are cramp-like pain during training in the lower back muscle (erector spinae), which you can get from almost any PH or steroid, and which are a very typical side. many, if not all, steroids increase erythrozyte count (red blood cells) drastically. this increases overall blood volume, blood pressure etc
 
user567 said:
Here are my liver enzymes on LGD
Invalid Link Removed

The back pains are called back pumps. Taurine helps a lot
"back pumps" are cramp-like pain during training in the lower back muscle (erector spinae), which you can get from almost any PH or steroid, and which are a very typical side. many, if not all, steroids increase erythrozyte count (red blood cells) drastically. this increases overall blood volume, blood pressure etc
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But my back pain is in the mid-lower back and only on the right side and seems to stick around all day. Do you think that it could still be back pumps? It’s definitely possible that a lot of inexperienced rad users confuse back pumps for kidney pain but who knows.
 
user567 said:
Here are my liver enzymes on LGD
Invalid Link Removed

The back pains are called back pumps. Taurine helps a lot
"back pumps" are cramp-like pain during training in the lower back muscle (erector spinae), which you can get from almost any PH or steroid, and which are a very typical side. many, if not all, steroids increase erythrozyte count (red blood cells) drastically. this increases overall blood volume, blood pressure etc
Click to expand...
And thanks for posting the blood work. Looks like your liver stays perfectly healthy, just like the monkeys that used rad. You got a monkey liver! Do you drink alcohol at all or do abstain completely while using sarms?
 
user567 said:
Here are my liver enzymes on LGD
Invalid Link Removed

The back pains are called back pumps. Taurine helps a lot
"back pumps" are cramp-like pain during training in the lower back muscle (erector spinae), which you can get from almost any PH or steroid, and which are a very typical side. many, if not all, steroids increase erythrozyte count (red blood cells) drastically. this increases overall blood volume, blood pressure etc
Click to expand...

That’s crazy your enzymes are not effected. All the sources I have used are legit vendors, MA being the most common source. I never get back pumps, how everyone responds differently, interesting.
 
YoungThor said:
And thanks for posting the blood work. Looks like your liver stays perfectly healthy, just like the monkeys that used rad. You got a monkey liver! Do you drink alcohol at all or do abstain completely while using sarms?
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I drink once a week.

Google LGD and back pumps. Read through all of them. I know your on RAD but its the same principle. Mine really got bad and taurine all but got rid of them.

Whats your blood pressure?
 
Geoffr said:
That’s crazy your enzymes are not effected. All the sources I have used are legit vendors, MA being the most common source. I never get back pumps, how everyone responds differently, interesting.
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My enzymes are perfect until i start PCT and they start to creep up from the SERMS. After a few weeks on Clomid they are high normal
 
user567 said:
My enzymes are perfect until i start PCT and they start to creep up from the SERMS. After a few weeks on Clomid they are high normal
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user567 said:
I drink once a week.

Google LGD and back pumps. Read through all of them. I know your on RAD but its the same principle. Mine really got bad and taurine all but got rid of them.

Whats your blood pressure?
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Idk man, I didn’t bother to check. Last cycle I did where I felt like this I checked at least once a week and I was often hitting 155/95. I know that doesn’t seem that crazy to some but it’s enough to effect my heart rate a lot and my breathing. It just makes me uncomfortable in so many ways.

I guess you didn’t see the post, but I hopped off the rad about two days ago. I was only a little over two weeks in and I’m gonna wait to resume until the first human study is published, which will hopefully happen sometime in late 2020.
 
YoungThor said:
Idk man, I didn’t bother to check. Last cycle I did where I felt like this I checked at least once a week and I was often hitting 155/95. I know that doesn’t seem that crazy to some but it’s enough to effect my heart rate a lot and my breathing. It just makes me uncomfortable in so many ways.

I guess you didn’t see the post, but I hopped off the rad about two days ago. I was only a little over two weeks in and I’m gonna wait to resume until the first human study is published, which will hopefully happen sometime in late 2020.
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You're only checkin it once a week? Blood pressure fluctuates during the day and night, After you eat, after you sleep, after a workout, And you can forget about getting a normal reading at the docs office "White coat hypertension" And of course on cycle, I check 3 times a day on cycle, Its that chronic HBP that will ruin you, Got mine under control with carditone even if it spikes above normal, but that's just me..If you are having rapid heart beat and hypertension even in times of relaxation, Screw that then man!
 
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