Experienced users: Pleae Help a stupid noob who made a mistake :) + epi stack log

[dman1]

info about me:
I am 21years old 6 foot tall and weigh around 210-215 lbs in the morning high teens bf%
Been lifting since i was 16 Ive bench pressed 250 and squatted 365 ass to grass naturally so i have a base
this will be my 2nd cycle i ran 6 weeks of epi at 40-50mg no PCT(yes stupid but I didnt inform myself and its my fault but thank god i feel completely fine in all areas) which actually shrank my bad pubertal gyno, it came back after i stopped (in hindsight, DUH brb estrogen rebound and no PCT)but not back to the original size

My goals:
reduce pubertal gyno some more if possible or atleast keep it from getting worse and
lose 10-15lbs fat for boxing, gain as much muscle in the process emphasis on GAIN, the reason im running a somewhat aggressive cycle(not as aggressive as my soon to be hospitalized gym buddy lol) is that i dont want to just maintain i want to cut fat and gain muscle as stupid as it sounds and i have my mind set on this

What i have now:
OL EP15tane one bottle 15mg per cap, 120 caps, OL Sup3r PCT one bottle, nolva enough for 20/20/10/10 pct , 2 bottles CEL cycle assist

My planned cycle:
Ep15tane 60/60/45/45/30/15 or any other way that uses the entire bottle within 4-8 weeks but
yes for now i think tapered DOWN to make it kick in faster and try to minimize estrogen rebound. Please let me know if my logic is faulty and what kind of dosing of the 15mg/cap 120 cap bottle would lead to the most gains with as little E-rebound as possible. Slow and steady for 6-8 weeks or high dose for 4-6?
AND
either one bottle of OL super Epi andro again within 4-8 weeks whatever dosing schedule you guys say is best for gains
OR(based on what experienced bros say will lead to most gains)
Halodrol at a moderate dose something like 25/25/50/50/75/75 to complement strength and gains from epi( my initial set up for the halo option is very low dose in the beginning as i would be on a high dose of epi at first and i dont want to stress my body more than necessary for my goals)

and yes the stack HAS to be super dry because of the gyno issue. also question do halo and epi have synergy or do they compete for the same androgen receptor?
Support supps:
Cel cycle assist used as directed
PCT:
nolva 20/20/10/10 and sup3r pct


Please give feedback on my plan, what you would change in terms of dose schedule for as much gains as possible with the least risk of gyno(NOT reduce i am definitely using the entire epi bottle and stacking it with something as i want a little more gains then this alone would permit)

Once my questions have been answered and im ready to go i will do a detailed log for you guys
thnks again ahead of time for the responses

 

[dman1]

im very stubborn with my goals btw because i need to fit into the 201lb weight class( which means i can weigh 205-210 if you consider water cuts for weigh ins)for boxing and obviously it would be beneficial to be as muscular as possible with as little fat as possible

 

[Abraham67]

How old are you? You have a post from November stating you at 18?

 

[Aaron.Cole]

How old are you? You have a post from November stating you at 18?

This. How old are you, really, OP?

 

[dman1]

Not bout to get banned pretty sure its against the rules to post about AAS or PH if youre under 21, but i am not 18 anymore thats for sure.
thing is i got sick of my ****ing gyno and the options are surgery or a chemicaal solution and i chose the one i could afford, things were really bad for me before that
Now if you guys don want to help me with my cycle thats fine but i'll still do it i might just mess myself up .
currently gravitating toward just running ep15tane t 60/60/45/45/30/15 to make the hormonal imbalance at the end of the cycle as small as possible and reduce E-rebound, plus i read epi kicks in faster when run at higher dosages, do not want to run halo as that would be too many moving parts and risks, i could always run more epi

 

[yates84]

Not bout to get banned pretty sure its against the rules to post about AAS or PH if youre under 21, but i am not 18 anymore thats for sure.
thing is i got sick of my ****ing gyno and the options are surgery or a chemicaal solution and i chose the one i could afford, things were really bad for me before that
Now if you guys don want to help me with my cycle thats fine but i'll still do it i might just mess myself up .
currently gravitating toward just running ep15tane t 60/60/45/45/30/15 to make the hormonal imbalance at the end of the cycle as small as possible and reduce E-rebound, plus i read epi kicks in faster when run at higher dosages, do not want to run halo as that would be too many moving parts and risks, i could always run more epi

Ok....you're going to taper off epistane? Why not taper up and run a proper serm pct? What are you doing messing with hormones when you're so young?

 

[dman1]

My gyno was so bad that it didnt make me care about the other risks, at the time i would have given 10 years of my life to be rid of it. also please understand that i have been researching gear and lurking forums since i was 16 always had access to gear but restrained myself until i was sure that the risks went from catastrophic to acceptable(atleast for me) and yes permanent shutdown although highly unlikely to occur is something im prepared to deal with im planning on blasting and cruising as soon as i have my own place anyway

 

[yates84]

My gyno was so bad that it didnt make me care about the other risks, at the time i would have given 10 years of my life to be rid of it. also please understand that i have been researching gear and lurking forums since i was 16 always had access to gear but restrained myself until i was sure that the risks went from catastrophic to acceptable(atleast for me) and yes permanent shutdown although highly unlikely to occur is something im prepared to deal with im planning on blasting and cruising as soon as i have my own place anyway

Bro...Epistane is not a gyno treatment, you need raloxifene and exemestane to treat your gyno. Another cycle will just aggravate it more! Have you read my pct thread? I've got a step by step gyno protocol in there you can follow. Get your nips right first before you think about cycling again.

 

[dman1]

Ok....you're going to taper off epistane? Why not taper up and run a proper serm pct? What are you doing messing with hormones when you're so young?

thank you for your respectful and considerate reply, I am running a serm PCT nolva actually but the thing is im not exactly sure if nolva and epi affect estrogen through the same pathway, so although nolva may modulate the estrogen receptor, epi has ai like qualities so if i go off i will probably need a suicide inhibitor to prevent estro rebound and the serm would only be there to make the test come back.

what am i doing with hormones? its not that im messing with other types of gear that can bring back my gyno, i am just running a compound that i have run before successfully and doing it right this time. i know the risks and tbh i am ready to take them even if i regret it later, that is what being an adult is about. to make your choices and have to live with your consequences, when youre a child your parents make choices for you or prevent the consequences from ****ing you over too bad if you make a bad choice.

besides that there are a ton of guys at my university that juice and it just pisses me off how little they know about training or dedication but how easy it is for them to get to where i am or further(although they shrink back down after lol (#whatispct)

 

[dman1]

Bro...Epistane is not a gyno treatment, you need raloxifene and exemestane to treat your gyno. Another cycle will just aggravate it more! Have you read my pct thread? I've got a step by step gyno protocol in there you can follow. Get your nips right first before you think about cycling again.

Well it took care of my gyno 80% and when i stopped it only came back to half the original size so i agree with you but the thing is epi worked for my gyno AND it gave me some gains which i cant say for letro or other AI's/serms

 

[dman1]

Bro...Epistane is not a gyno treatment, you need raloxifene and exemestane to treat your gyno. Another cycle will just aggravate it more! Have you read my pct thread? I've got a step by step gyno protocol in there you can follow. Get your nips right first before you think about cycling again.

You have been respectful, not bashed me and tried to give good advice, i will sit and think on it. my ep15tane is still unopened if i decide not to run it i will sell it to a friend. If i decide not to follow your advice it is not because of it's lack of quality but because i am young reckless and accept the risks

side note: people always tell younger folks who want to go on hormones to just lift natty because their hormone levels are peaking, but for me ive been lifting since i was 13 the gains are just not there anymore, epi is just so darn temptng because it can solve all my problems but also cause a whole bunch of new ones

 

[Aaron.Cole]

Well it took care of my gyno 80% and when i stopped it only came back to half the original size so i agree with you but the thing is epi worked for my gyno AND it gave me some gains which i cant say for letro or other AI's/serms

Get in on that thread if you haven't bro. It's wicked helpful. As well as his Andros and SARMs threads.

And wasn't meaning to be disrespectful, but it really makes a difference to know age when trying to give any kind of help or encouragement. . .

 

[dman1]

Get in on that thread if you haven't bro. It's wicked helpful. As well as his Andros and SARMs threads.

And wasn't meaning to be disrespectful, but it really makes a difference to know age when trying to give any kind of help or encouragement. . .

no im not taking offense from anyone in this thread, i am very willing to listen. im not quite the "im gonna do what i want and you cant stop me" type teen. if i hear enough convincing arguments i will certainly reconsider and run a PCT gyno reversal especially since i did not pct after my first epistane cycle i just tapered off, i feel fine but the pct plan wont hurt in case im shut down but dont know it. but at this point im still slightly leaning toward epi since i 1. dished out the cash already 2. know it works on my gyno while i dont know if serms or AI's will for some people it doesnt 3. think that i recovered just fine last time and didnt even pct which im planning to this time 4. gains and no gyno>no gyno no gains 5. willing to bet that my liver and testes young and healthy to bounce back just fine
BUT i get that it comes with substantial risks and if someone here can prove that they are actually likely to happen to me then i reconsider but so far all i see are dozens of dudess in the gym my age on stuff who are fine

 

[dman1]

ok guys thanks for all the help im going to run this: form yates84
Gyno Reversal Protocol
Ralox - 120mg ed
Exemestane - 12.5mg eod
*One should follow this protocol until lumps have subsided. At which point the Ralox dose should be reduced to 60mg ed and continued for another 4 weeks, and exemestane should be continued at 12.5mg eod for another 6 weeks. Continuing the exemestane for 2 weeks after discontinuing the Ralox helps prevent rebound

will get bloods done and reevaluate taking anything in a year
it just sucks that the only other guy in my weightclass(201) on my boxing team is a juiced out 25 year old

 

[Blergs]

dont use AI , just do ralox for a 3ish month period and re asses situation.
if off cycle dont use an ai and crash estro, but on cycle always use one for things that convert. i would rec no aas right now
and i would rec dex as ai when on cycle and ralox for this issue and for pct nolva and clomid combo. you can get them all from sponsors here. i use cem mostly.

 

[StanleyG]

ok guys thanks for all the help im going to run this: form yates84
Gyno Reversal Protocol
Ralox - 120mg ed
Exemestane - 12.5mg eod
*One should follow this protocol until lumps have subsided. At which point the Ralox dose should be reduced to 60mg ed and continued for another 4 weeks, and exemestane should be continued at 12.5mg eod for another 6 weeks. Continuing the exemestane for 2 weeks after discontinuing the Ralox helps prevent rebound

will get bloods done and reevaluate taking anything in a year
it just sucks that the only other guy in my weightclass(201) on my boxing team is a juiced out 25 year old

This looks like a good plan but as blegs asked, do you need the ai? Didi i miss it , did you post your e2 levels?

 

[dman1]

This looks like a good plan but as blegs asked, do you need the ai? Didi i miss it , did you post your e2 levels?

not sure but this is what yates84 protocol was. i always heard you need to bombard your gyno with letro but there are several ways to get rid of it: take something to bind to the E-receptor, take an aromatase inhibitor or take something dht based. but yes i believe i need an ai because i might have high estro but i definitely have high T too, im a big kid, gain muscle easy, started puberty very early and look like im in my late twenties so its probably the excess aromatase that keeps converting my T levels that are just fine into E

 

[StanleyG]

not sure but this is what yates84 protocol was. i always heard you need to bombard your gyno with letro but there are several ways to get rid of it: take something to bind to the E-receptor, take an aromatase inhibitor or take something dht based. but yes i believe i need an ai because i might have high estro but i definitely have high T too, im a big kid, gain muscle easy, started puberty very early and look like im in my late twenties so its probably the excess aromatase that keeps converting my T levels that are just fine into E

Im all for managing your e2 with an ai while you treat it with Ralox IF you need too. Only if you need too. You should really get blood work so you know for sure you have too before you just take it (the stane).

 

[Blergs]

not sure but this is what yates84 protocol was. i always heard you need to bombard your gyno with letro but there are several ways to get rid of it: take something to bind to the E-receptor, take an aromatase inhibitor or take something dht based. but yes i believe i need an ai because i might have high estro but i definitely have high T too, im a big kid, gain muscle easy, started puberty very early and look like im in my late twenties so its probably the excess aromatase that keeps converting my T levels that are just fine into E

tell me which one makes sense:

option 1) your off any steroids so your estro will be at its natty levels, and you use an AI like letro to crash your whole bodies estro levels just to starv the glands only in the breast area. (estro is used for many functions in the body btw)
or
option 2) you use a SERM like ralox or tamox to block JUST the glands your trying to starve and shrink the gyno, while leaving estrogen alone and letting your body use it for its many bodily functions.

the question isnt will letro work.. the question is , is it a stupid out dated protocal that does work.... well yes it is and it does...

use a SERM off cycle of trying to shring gyno.
and know this whether letro or SERM, alot fo gyno wont shrink much and will need to be cut ou to be fully gone, regardles of which option you use.

 

[Blergs]

You need blood work. dont just assume IMO.

 

[dman1]

tell me which one makes sense:

option 1) your off any steroids so your estro will be at its natty levels, and you use an AI like letro to crash your whole bodies estro levels just to starv the glands only in the breast area. (estro is used for many functions in the body btw)
or
option 2) you use a SERM like ralox or tamox to block JUST the glands your trying to starve and shrink the gyno, while leaving estrogen alone and letting your body use it for its many bodily functions.

the question isnt will letro work.. the question is , is it a stupid out dated protocal that does work.... well yes it is and it does...

use a SERM off cycle of trying to shring gyno.
and know this whether letro or SERM, alot fo gyno wont shrink much and will need to be cut ou to be fully gone, regardles of which option you use.

Thank you for the info, got it.

 

[Blergs]

No prob. good luck. feel free to pm if you think I can help somehow!

 

[x82bones]

Raloxifene worked wonders for me in the past. ran a 2 month protocol and reduced quarter sized lump to less than a pea. has stayed that way during current cycle of test and winstrol cut. if I were you I would stay away from the prohormones until gyno has cleared up and until youre a little older.

 

[dman1]

tell me which one makes sense:

option 1) your off any steroids so your estro will be at its natty levels, and you use an AI like letro to crash your whole bodies estro levels just to starv the glands only in the breast area. (estro is used for many functions in the body btw)
or
option 2) you use a SERM like ralox or tamox to block JUST the glands your trying to starve and shrink the gyno, while leaving estrogen alone and letting your body use it for its many bodily functions.

the question isnt will letro work.. the question is , is it a stupid out dated protocal that does work.... well yes it is and it does...

use a SERM off cycle of trying to shring gyno.
and know this whether letro or SERM, alot fo gyno wont shrink much and will need to be cut ou to be fully gone, regardles of which option you use.

isnt raloxifene expensive to make and therefore commonly faked?

 

[StanleyG]

isnt raloxifene expensive to make and therefore commonly faked?

cem.....

 

[B5150]

Ok....you're going to taper off epistane? Why not taper up and run a proper serm pct? What are you doing messing with hormones when you're so young?

guy just told you he wasn't 21!