Estrogen control help

[stankyleg]

A little background here. I've been studying hormones, unofficially, but pretty seriously for about the last 15 years, I'm guessing. I've been on TRT for some time. I'm 46 years old. I'm probably the leanest I've been in years. I guess about 4 years ago I noticed that if I take my testosterone dose anything above 160 mg, I start to get a gyno flare up. This feels extremely low. I have read multiple posts on here of people taking 400 and 500 mg a week and not having estrogen issues. I don't feel like I should be having estrogen issues at 200 mg a week. My blood work shows that my estrogen is in range. It also shows that my SHBG is a touch on the low side. Is there anything I can alter with my diet, or supplement with that would help correct this problem, or if anybody has any insight as to its potential root, I would love to know. I do not want to live on a selective estrogen receptor modulator. Aromatose inhibitors, except when dosed too high, are pretty and effective. Dame problem exists If I'm doing my TRT dose with a low dose of var. I'm assuming this would have something to do with estrogen metabolism and my livers ability to efficiently remove estrogen from my bloodstream, or the low sexual hormone binding globulin. Another used to be some serious medical geniuses in here like matrix and people like that. Hopefully one of them will see this.

 

[cruze1911r1]

@sns8778

Sns inhibit-e is an excellent daily use supp. I take 3 caps per day. While running 350mg test per week the inhibit-e has kept me gyno free

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Aromatose inhibitors,

so I have two things you can look into. but first...

I'm just thinking you are a little sensitive to the estrogen. remember too that progesterone can go up with estrogen so sometimes it can be what's causing the sensitive nips. (I assume you are referring to itchy nips etc., not an actual gyno flare up)
1.If its a real flare up and gyno is growing making for sore to the touch growths under the nipple, then supps, Serms, AIs may have little effect.
2. consider having the mass surgically removed if warranted.

If the above two things do not apply, I LOVE apex 6oxo TD Arimahex.

the really great thing about it is that it levels out your epi-test ratio and thus is a great way to normalize sex hormones.

also look at Stanogen, its a TD epi-andro that's pretty good at lowering estrogen by a small amount. maybe that can be enough to keep things working in the sack by not crushing your estrogen with such a low dose of test.

www.apex-alchemy.com

 

[Jeremyk1]

The problem with hormones is it’s so complicated, no one can give you a definitive answer. It could be that even though your estrogen is in the normal range, it may be too high for you. It could be SHBG, with that running low, you may have higher activity even though the level is normal. I know for a lot of people it seems that if you can get “more androgenic” like adding DHTs, you may be able to tolerate more estrogen. In a lot of cases, it seems the balance of androgen to estrogen can be a larger factor, so you may need to use non-aromatizing compounds instead of test.

You’ll probably have to experiment if you want to get to the root. Or maybe just throw in an AI and you’ll probably be fine.

 

[stankyleg]

The problem with hormones is it’s so complicated, no one can give you a definitive answer. It could be that even though your estrogen is in the normal range, it may be too high for you. It could be SHBG, with that running low, you may have higher activity even though the level is normal. I know for a lot of people it seems that if you can get “more androgenic” like adding DHTs, you may be able to tolerate more estrogen. In a lot of cases, it seems the balance of androgen to estrogen can be a larger factor, so you may need to use non-aromatizing compounds instead of test.

You’ll probably have to experiment if you want to get to the root. Or maybe just throw in an AI and you’ll probably be fine.

Thanks bro. Actually, the ai will lower it, but I lose libido and my joints hurt. It's weird. It's only in the last few yrs. I'll see if I can add a lil mast.

 

[cruze1911r1]

Thanks bro. Actually, the ai will lower it, but I lose libido and my joints hurt. It's weird. It's only in the last few yrs. I'll see if I can add a lil mast.

Have you tried exemestane/aromasin?

 

[cruze1911r1]

Thanks bro. Actually, the ai will lower it, but I lose libido and my joints hurt. It's weird. It's only in the last few yrs. I'll see if I can add a lil mast.

For real though, inhibit-e is $21 for a month supply and works to promote healthy estrogen metabolism. It modulates instead of crashing e2

 

[Hyde]

I’m not sure I understand what you don’t understand, given all the observations you’ve laid out.

You have old existing gyno (as do I). This means it just needs to flare, which will happen way easier than growing brand new tissue.

You have lower SHBG. Lower SHBG is, higher free test will be relative to total. You raise your test over 160, free T gets too high. You add a DHT derivative that quickly lowers SHBG like Var, your free T is going to also go up.

When your free test is going up, aromatization will too - more estrogen, more ER agonism of that old gyno, and it flares. It doesn’t matter that your estrogen is “in range”. It doesn’t matter what other people can take; drug metabolism is totally individual. I can’t even take 150mg test with split shots; I need to take it over 3-5 little baby slinpin shots in a week to not need an AI or something to compete with the estrogen.

So if you want to run more test, you will need to take a SERM, Proviron or Rad140 to compete for the ER, or use an AI, Masteron, Primo, or DHB to inhibit aromatization.

You could probably run 200 test with 100-200 mast e no problem. You only want enough of the mast to get the total mg where you want, or you will be too dry and get joint pain same as overuse of an AI. Primo & DHB are a bit more estrogen neutral, not as suppressive to it as mast is per mg.

 

[sns8778]

Thanks bro. Actually, the ai will lower it, but I lose libido and my joints hurt. It's weird. It's only in the last few yrs. I'll see if I can add a lil mast.

A lot of prescription AI's will lower libido.

As @cruze1911r1 mentioned, and I'm glad its working great for him, a lot of people use Inhibit-E on their TRT regimens to help with modulating estrogen. It won't crash estrogen too low like a prescription AI, and it helps with libido in a lot of people too.

 

[Hyde]

I think Hyde nailed this. I had a flare up on 125mg of test-c 2x/week. I added 50mg of Proviron 25mg/2x day and 1-2 Letrone capsules/day and I've been gyno free and still have a good libido. I'm gonna get some Inhibit e because so many people give it rave reviews and it's cheaper than Letrone.

Proviron is a good tool for cycles where lipids might be getting skewed anyway, but I just want to caution you or anyone to watch your individual response to how it affects lipids if considering longterm use.

I haven’t used Inhibit E, but I have felt positive effects/relief from ingredients like DIM, I3C, etc, so I would expect it to be a realistic longterm option (as far as promoting healthy estrogen metabolism). It’s priced to be an affordable staple as well.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

I usually will do everything in my power to absolutely crash estrogen and then I slowly taper the ai dose until I feel the best. I’m rare though. I feel fine with fully crashed estrogen. No joint issues, no energy issues. Only night sweats and some insomnia. 1mg of letro every day for a month straight didn’t even give me issues. But now I know enough of my body, on cycle I usually dose 1mg letro on shot days. On my doctor prescribe trt I use adex.
I have had great success in the past on self prescribed trt using apex arimahex (the td 6-oxo). I highly recommend that as a fix

 

[SweetLou321]

There is also some data in teen boys linking gyno more so to IGF-1 levels and free E2 levels. The lower SHBG could mean high free E2 levels. Adding more test or var could increase IGF-1 and/or increase free E2 levels, leading to a flare.

 

[Hyde]

There is also some data in teen boys linking gyno more so to IGF-1 levels and free E2 levels. The lower SHBG could mean high free E2 levels. Adding more test or var could increase IGF-1 and/or increase free E2 levels, leading to a flare.

That’s what I said.

More test in a low SHBG environment means more free test. Which wouldn’t flare gyno…if it stayed that way. But it’s not, because he’s getting flare ups - that means the greater free t is getting aromatized to E2, which itself can be an issue and is also a primary rate limiter for GH to IGF1 conversion. Your E2 is tanked, you get no gains from GH, because IGF1 stays tanked.

Using an AI or competitively inhibiting aromatization with something like Masteron prevents the elevated E2, which limits IGF1 conversion. Using a SERM like Raloxifene also lowers IGF1 expression.

I’m not disagreeing with what you are saying at all; I just don’t want the OP to overly complicate this.

Take some Inhibit E or something akin and see if he can handle 200mg test/wk then. When he wants to blast, he can do any of the above recommendations to get the total gear dosage he desires.

 

[LeanEngineer]

For real though, inhibit-e is $21 for a month supply and works to promote healthy estrogen metabolism. It modulates instead of crashing e2

Plus 1 for Inhibit E. We carry at Strong Supplement Shop as well with a nice write up on it:

Inhibit-E by Serious Nutrition Solutions

Inhibit-E by Serious Nutrition Solutions is available once again to support your body's estrogen control! Order Now! Same Day Shipping!

www.strongsupplementshop.com

 

[Spell3ound]

Plus 1 for Inhibit E. We carry at Strong Supplement Shop as well with a nice write up on it:

Inhibit-E by Serious Nutrition Solutions

Inhibit-E by Serious Nutrition Solutions is available once again to support your body's estrogen control! Order Now! Same Day Shipping!

www.strongsupplementshop.com

Never heard of this Inhibit E .. im getting a Gyno rebound from doing a Gyno reversal protocol.. it seemed to work..but I made the mistake of tapering off of only nolvadex.. now its been about 2 month later..and my gyno is coming back...I ordered Letro and arimidex...AND nolva cause Ive read its best to take a serms and IA together..... any help would be appreciated ... ive been natty for over 15 years.. and I just want to stop this gyno from getting worse.. if you need any more infro let me know...glad to tell you what you would need to know...

 

[sns8778]

Never heard of this Inhibit E .. im getting a Gyno rebound from doing a Gyno reversal protocol.. it seemed to work..but I made the mistake of tapering off of only nolvadex.. now its been about 2 month later..and my gyno is coming back...I ordered Letro and arimidex...AND nolva cause Ive read its best to take a serms and IA together..... any help would be appreciated ... ive been natty for over 15 years.. and I just want to stop this gyno from getting worse.. if you need any more infro let me know...glad to tell you what you would need to know...

Inhibit-E is a great and very popular product that has a lot of great feedback on it.

The write up is very detailed, you can read the full writeup here if you'd like:

Inhibit-E - 90 caps | Serious Nutrition Solutions

Advanced Anti-Estrogen Control Support. Optimize Natural Testosterone Levels. Supports Healthy Estrogen Regulation & Metabolism.

seriousnutritionsolutions.com

When it comes to gyno protocols like what you're referencing, its important to distinguish whether you're talking prescription medication or research chemicals, bc with research chemicals there is always the chance of them not being what they're supposed to be. Not knocking them, just reality.

Inhibit-E is a great supplement for helping support estrogen control and helping improve proper estrogen metabolism, but it is very different than the drugs/chemicals that you are mentioning.

 

[Jeremyk1]

Never heard of this Inhibit E .. im getting a Gyno rebound from doing a Gyno reversal protocol.. it seemed to work..but I made the mistake of tapering off of only nolvadex.. now its been about 2 month later..and my gyno is coming back...I ordered Letro and arimidex...AND nolva cause Ive read its best to take a serms and IA together..... any help would be appreciated ... ive been natty for over 15 years.. and I just want to stop this gyno from getting worse.. if you need any more infro let me know...glad to tell you what you would need to know...

A lot of people have more luck with raloxifene over tamoxifen. I think I’m the odd one out, but tamoxifen works better for me. But you may get better results using raloxifene. But yeah, I’d taper down the SERM and throw in an AI. I like exemestane, but any should work okay, just don’t overdo it. If you can get it to clear up, I’d taper down the AI as well and start on Inhibit E for better healthy estrogen metabolism in the long term.

 

[Nac]

Never heard of this Inhibit E .. im getting a Gyno rebound from doing a Gyno reversal protocol.. it seemed to work..but I made the mistake of tapering off of only nolvadex.. now its been about 2 month later..and my gyno is coming back...I ordered Letro and arimidex...AND nolva cause Ive read its best to take a serms and IA together..... any help would be appreciated ... ive been natty for over 15 years.. and I just want to stop this gyno from getting worse.. if you need any more infro let me know...glad to tell you what you would need to know...

Keep in mind that SERMs like tamoxifen and ralox might work great whilst youre using them, but as soon as you stop them your gyno will simply return because the hormonal environment causing it is no longer being "inhibited" in doing so. To properly address your gyno with a longterm solution youll probably need to get it surgically removed.

 

[Spell3ound]

A lot of people have more luck with raloxifene over tamoxifen. I think I’m the odd one out, but tamoxifen works better for me. But you may get better results using raloxifene. But yeah, I’d taper down the SERM and throw in an AI. I like exemestane, but any should work okay, just don’t overdo it. If you can get it to clear up, I’d taper down the AI as well and start on Inhibit E for better healthy estrogen metabolism in the long term.

first off...thanks for helping me out man......................Ive tried 3 months of Ralox and it did nothing...I only got results with Letro and Nolva..but I made the mistake of ending the tapering off with Nolva..and not Letro (Ai) now i got Letro and Nolva AND arimidex... ive had the flare up since 3-4 days...the stuff is taking so long to get here! im thinking letro 2.5 until it goes down...then 1.25 with 40 nolva..then taper off towards the end with Arimidex this time.... how long until its to late for it to calm down the gyno? is 4 days

 

[Nac]

..then taper off towards the end with Arimidex this time.

Do you honestly think this relatively minor detail will be the cure to your gyno coming back once you stop the drug treatment?

 

[Spell3ound]

Do you honestly think this relatively minor detail will be the cure to your gyno coming back once you stop the drug treatment?

Why is it a minor detail? Last time I made the mistake of tapering off with nolvadex. And it cause gyno rebound... So I'm thinking ending and tapering off with a AI would balance things out in the end...

 

[Nac]

Why is it a minor detail? Last time I made the mistake of tapering off with nolvadex. And it cause gyno rebound... So I'm thinking ending and tapering off with a AI would balance things out in the end...

Perhaps Im misunderstanding your situation.

Youve had pre-existing gyno? If so, then your bodys natural environment has caused it, right?

 

[Spell3ound]

I had abit of gyno from going on test when I was younger.. (15 years ago) and I would always get my right nipple get sensitive sometimes...always bugged me...so I decided to try a gyno protocol ... Nolvadex and letro together...and taper off ... It worked too...lump shrunk..and wasnt noticable... but like i said...i tapered off my gyno protocol with Nolvadex... and I got a rebound in my damn LEFT nipple this time....where I never had sensitivity in that one... I did research and some people rebound when they get off of Nolvadex... and ive read that it would be better to taper off with an IA and not a Serms... so now I started letro and nolva to calm down my flare up (its working too...been 2 days ad already feel a difference) so im thinking of going another week with letro and nolva.....than taper off nolva and contineu with the AI...and slowly taper off the AI to finish off.... im not on gear ..ive never touched it since 15 years ago..... im starting to regret doing that gyno protocol now...