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Esters and peak blood levels, Hex vs. Ace

yanbu

New member
I have a couple of questions about longer esters. Basically, I did a spreadsheet to compare doeses of Tren Hex to Tren Ace. (Invalid Link Removed) From this, it appears obvious that useing as little as 200 mgs a week split into 2 doses of hex gives much higher levels of tren in the system than using 75 mgs a day of tren ace. Even considering the ester weight, that is pretty good bang for the buck, and you wouldn't have to inject ed. Is this a fair comparison? Could I then get away with using 200 mgs a week, despite the fact that I am a fair sized (6'3" 245lb) guy?

By the way, the spreadsheet is a pretty good way to compare blood levels of any two steriods if anybody wants to download it, just plug in the half life and doesing. It is only set up for ED EOD and 2x a week doseing, though.
 
200mg Tren Hex per week > 525mg Tren Ace per week?

I think there is an error somewhere in your logic.
 
I haven't actually gone through the calculation. However, for tren acetate with a half life of 4 days and everyday injections of 75 mgs the curve should be steadily increasing should it not?
 
Gethuge said:
I haven't actually gone through the calculation. However, for tren acetate with a half life of 4 days and everyday injections of 75 mgs the curve should be steadily increasing should it not?
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You eventually hit a plateua of what your body degrades and what you are injecting, so that seems to make sense. The other graph with a 14 day half life looks odd tho. The sharp declines don't look right. Also, are you sure the HALF LIFE of Hex is 14 days, or is that how long it takes to clear the system? With a half life of 14 days, 25% would still be in your body at 28 days.
 
OK, I can't pin down an exact halflife for tren hex, the closest I can find is that it is "comparable" to the enanthate ester. So say it is nine days (kind of the middle of the range of answers I found for test enan) and not 14. Taking 200 mgs a week still gives higher peak levels than 75 a day of ace.

By the way Mike, the spikes are due to the compression of the graph. It is smoothed to one day, which is why there aren't spikes in the tren ace graph. If I had done it by the hour, that graph would spike too.

dego, what I am saying is that due to the longer half life, more of the drug will build up in your system.

Gethuge, since halflifes are an exponential function, there will eventually be a point where equilibrium is reached. Mathematically anyway.
 
75mg Tren Ace per day >> 200mg Tren hex per week in effect

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just mess around with the active mgs to get an idea of what I mean.
 
I not sure what you did wrong (maybe I am wrong but I don't think so) but that isn't the case. here is the method I used
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The actually calculations are easy. The general form for doing this is MgDL = MgD * (1/2)^(D/HL). MgD is milligrams in depot, MgDL is milligrams in depot left, D is days, and HL is the half-life in days. If your mathematically inclined you can also do in logs but I am lazy and this is close enough. So say you took a shot of 800mgs Testosterone Cypionate, which has a half life of 12 days, on Monday, by Sunday you would have 800*((.5)^(7/12)) or 534mg left in the depot. 800-534=266mg that you actually got that week from that shot. If you took another 800mg shot on the following Monday you would (504+800) *((.5)^(7/12)) or 870 left in the depot at the end of week two. 1304-870=434 that you actually got to use during week two and so on. As you can see the long esters take quit a bit of time to get to the weekly dosage. Please note that the calculation for week two starts out with D being 8 instead of 7, hence the 504 instead of the 534.
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Following this out you will find at a some point in time there is an equalilibraum between the amount in depot and the amount released into the blood. or are you asuming the amount in depot to be the amount in the blood? if that is the case you need to revise this
 
yanbu said:
dego, what I am saying is that due to the longer half life, more of the drug will build up in your system.
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Lets be specific here. Yes more will build up in the body but where is it? Still in the depot or more likely dispersed in lipids somewhere in the body not an active compound in the blood stream. All Tren compounds ace, enthanate, hex will be removed from the blood stream at the same rate as they have had the esters removed and are now Tren base. So short half-live means more is dumped into the blood stream sooner and because of this more is active. That is why Test prop 'starts working' sooner than Test ethanate higher levels in the blood stream. If you front load a long ester like hex there is no difference in the time for it to 'start working' as it doesn't have to.

All things aside the total mg/week is the only important thing, even if its a Laurate ester (correcting for the difference in ester weight of course)..... eventually it will build up to the same amount of active compound in the blood as a short ester.

75mg Tren Ace per day = 525mg per week
with the difference in ester weight that rougly equivelent to
615mg Tren Hex per week. Assuming a 9 day half-life which sounds too long to me, getting to peak levels sooner you would need to front load 1400mg on day one (which I don't recommend)

I found this in an article says it more eloquently than I can.

Esterification temporarily deactivates the steroid molecule. With a chain blocking the 17th beta position, binding to the androgen receptor is not possible (it can exert no activity in the body). In order for the compound to become active the ester must therefore first be removed. This automatically occurs once the compound has filtered into blood circulation, where esterase enzymes quickly cleave off (hydrolyze) the ester chain. This will restore the necessary hydroxyl (OH) group at the 17th beta position, enabling the drug to attach to the appropriate receptor. Now and only now will the steroid be able to have an effect on skeletal muscle tissue. You can start to see why considering testosterone cypionate much more potent than enanthate makes little sense, as your muscles are seeing only free testosterone no matter what ester was used to deploy it.​
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Ok, that is where I screwed up. I wasn't thinking about the amount in depot, I was figuring for total amount left in your system. I started thinking that I had screwed something up when I plugged in the values for 1gm of test e a week, and got some rediculous numbers. The formula I was using was the equation for figuring the halflife of radioactive isotopes. Anyway, Skye, thanks for the equation, I will fix my spreadsheet after class today and see how things work out.
 
yanbu said:
Ok, that is where I screwed up. I wasn't thinking about the amount in depot, I was figuring for total amount left in your system. I started thinking that I had screwed something up when I plugged in the values for 1gm of test e a week, and got some rediculous numbers. The formula I was using was the equation for figuring the halflife of radioactive isotopes. Anyway, Skye, thanks for the equation, I will fix my spreadsheet after class today and see how things work out.
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there one and the same. the only dif is the one I gave was for the amount left in depot.you just need to subtract the amount used from the intial depot then add this to the next depot and recalc the amount used. that is what I did for the EQ in that artical I wrote.
 
OK, here is a revised spreadsheet. Could someone take a look at it and see if it looks correct? Thanks

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