Epistane

Epi strong is much better than havoc.. At least in my experience. But unfortunately there is none left to be bought.
 
i have heard that rpn is under dosed. idk. ep-stane by dynamic formulas is good. i liked it. no sides really and felt like a clean product.i finished the last 2 weeks of my cycle with epi-xt by iron labs. this is the cheapest stuff i've seen. i got it for 24$ shipped. it didn't feel as clean as the ep-stane. i had more lethargy and irritability. it may have been because of the more frequent dosing. ep-stane is 15mg per cap. epi xt is 10mg per cap. the epi xt felt different. hell, it may be superdrol in it. but, the ep-stane is good.
 
I just ran a rpn havoc cycle for 6 weeks with pretty decent results. Leaned up, gained a few pounds and quite a bit of strength.
I didn't start seeing results till the end of the third week though. I ran it at 20/30/40/40/40/40
 
kansui said:
Epi strong is much better than havoc.. At least in my experience. But unfortunately there is none left to be bought.
Click to expand...

It kind of disappoint me how companies trick people into trying different products of the same compound. To say epi is better than havoc has to just be physcological comparison rather then result/physcial comparison (not including if you upped the dosage on one more then the other)

For those that are having the problem deciding whether to get RPN Havoc or IBE Epistane, here the deal:

Both RPN Havoc and IBE Epistane are designer steriodals (believe or not they are a 17a-methyl and must be treated as one). However there should not be some long drawn out debate (as i seen on many forums) about whether Havor or Epi is better.

Why?
Once you Pop the little pill in your mouth, nostrils, etc whatever way that works for you it then makes it passage way to the liver and both are broken down to the compound:

Epitiostanol
2a,3a-epithio17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

(hint where they get the name Epistane from :))

And please dont get fooled by foolish posts that gives foolish written by foolish people telling you that you do not need a PCT when running IBE Epistane or RPN Havoc. Like every androgen, a pct is required! and this is not a mild product.
 
Muscleshreder, what would you consider as a good PCT setup for Epi/Havoc? I have seen so many conflicting opinions on other sites, that its got me confused.
 
OP.. If you get the opportunity try both products, Havoc and Epi Strong... See for yourself which is the better product.
 
muscleshreder said:
It kind of disappoint me how companies trick people into trying different products of the same compound. To say epi is better than havoc has to just be physcological comparison rather then result/physcial comparison (not including if you upped the dosage on one more then the other)

For those that are having the problem deciding whether to get RPN Havoc or IBE Epistane, here the deal:

Both RPN Havoc and IBE Epistane are designer steriodals (believe or not they are a 17a-methyl and must be treated as one). However there should not be some long drawn out debate (as i seen on many forums) about whether Havor or Epi is better.

Why?
Once you Pop the little pill in your mouth, nostrils, etc whatever way that works for you it then makes it passage way to the liver and both are broken down to the compound:

Epitiostanol
2a,3a-epithio17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

(hint where they get the name Epistane from :))

And please dont get fooled by foolish posts that gives foolish written by foolish people telling you that you do not need a PCT when running IBE Epistane or RPN Havoc. Like every androgen, a pct is required! and this is not a mild product.
Click to expand...

Don't know what my comment has to do with the already well known information given here.
 
Barabbas said:
Muscleshreder, what would you consider as a good PCT setup for Epi/Havoc? I have seen so many conflicting opinions on other sites, that its got me confused.
Click to expand...

People have debated many many times over whats the best PCT setup for Epi/Havoc and there will not be any happy medium to decide whats the best PCT/Serm for any 17a-methyl. I feel you should try and see what works for you and get a synoposis on how you body reacts and recovers during and after the PCT.

I personally use Bluote's PCT Setup for a product that contains Epitiostanol:

1) Nolvadex (Tamoxifen citrate) or Fareston (Toremifene Citrate) :
Week 1 : 40 mg (Tamoxifen citrate) or 120 mg or 120 mg for 4 days then 90 mg(Toremifene Citrate)
Week 2 : 40 mg (Tamoxifen citrate) or 90 mg (Toremifene Citrate)
Week 3 : 20 mg (Tamoxifen citrate) or 60 mg (Toremifene Citrate)
Week 4 : 20 mg (Tamoxifen citrate) or 30 mg (Toremifene Citrate)
2) ThermoLife Ebol
Week 1 : 6 caps
Week 2 : 6 caps
Week 3 : 6 caps
Week 4 : 6 caps
3) Designer Supplements Lean Extreme or SNS Reduce XT
Week 1 : 3 caps
Week 2 : 3 caps
Week 3 : 3 caps
Week 4 : 3 caps
4) Basic supps like BCAA,Whey, BA, CM and Creatine
5) Anabolic Innovation Cycle support
Week 1 : 1 Scoop
Week 2 : 1 Scoop
Week 3 : 1 Scoop
Week 4 : 1 Scoop

Other possible supps :

1) Aromotase Inhibitor like ATD, 6-Bromo and 6-OXO
2) Test boosters or adaptogens like Tribulus, Avena Sativa, Maca root, Rhodiola Rosea ( Good help to boost libido during the PCT)
3) Nettle root product like DS Activate

I think his setup is pretty good running Epistane alone, however i see alot of people running so much unecessary stuff with the PCT that baffles me that they seem not to know they have 2 of the same product 0.0

-MShreder
Dont Bobby Slap my post plz
 
kansui said:
Don't know what my comment has to do with the already well known information given here.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I came off wrong, but it has nothing towards you, was more written as an informative tool than anything else. Just wanted people to under stand that Epistane and Havoc are two different designer products which breaks down into Epitiostanol. So the only way one could have been stronger is if you dose one higher than the other.

If there was a product called SuperCaffiene and another called CaffieneSuper, both are only caffiene the only way you will get difference is the dosage that you take. Thats all

Was only meant to be informative and not create confusion between Epistane better than Havos :)

-MShreder
Dont Yahoo! Slap my post plz
 
muscleshreder said:
Sorry if I came off wrong, but it has nothing towards you, was more written as an informative tool than anything else. Just wanted people to under stand that Epistane and Havoc are two different designer products which breaks down into Epitiostanol. So the only way one could have been stronger is if you dose one higher than the other.

If there was a product called SuperCaffiene and another called CaffieneSuper, both are only caffiene the only way you will get difference is the dosage that you take. Thats all

Was only meant to be informative and not create confusion between Epistane better than Havos :)

-MShreder
Dont Yahoo! Slap my post plz
Click to expand...

Epitiostanol doesn't break down or convert it's already active.
 
mugen112 said:
I've had great results with pulsing epi no serm
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Pulsing is great :) The half life of this compund make a good cycle for pulsing.

Dr. D did an amazing write on how to pulse. Something like 2 weeks on 2 weeks off

Though IMO i think you should atleast have something on hand just in case something goes wrong
 
muscleshreder said:
Pulsing is great :) The half life of this compund make a good cycle for pulsing.

Dr. D did an amazing write on how to pulse. Something like 2 weeks on 2 weeks off

Though IMO i think you should at least have something on hand just in case something goes wrong
Click to expand...

1) I'd like to try pulsing Epi, but I thought it was more like taking on the days you workout, and staying off on the other days. So, since I workout 3 days a week, that's the most I would take it (as opposed to 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off). With that schedule, PCT would not be necessary, correct? Any further thoughts/ideas on pulsing?

2) If I did do an ED run of Epi and needed PCT, I am gun-shy when it comes to buying a SERM from a chem research company. What about using Primordial Performance's TRS for PCT?
 
muscleshreder said:
Yes you are right. The products (Havoc, Epistane etc) break down or convert once passed the liver into a methylated version of the controlled substance Epitiostanol
Click to expand...

But havoc and epistane r Epitiostanol(methylated), requiring no conversion
 
DGA3 said:
1) I'd like to try pulsing Epi, but I thought it was more like taking on the days you workout, and staying off on the other days. So, since I workout 3 days a week, that's the most I would take it (as opposed to 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off). With that schedule, PCT would not be necessary, correct? Any further thoughts/ideas on pulsing?

2) If I did do an ED run of Epi and needed PCT, I am gun-shy when it comes to buying a SERM from a chem research company. What about using Primordial Performance's TRS for PCT?
Click to expand...

Three days a week is how I pulsed it.
 
DGA3 said:
And how did that work for you?
Click to expand...

Great no shutdown. If there was any it wasn't noticeable. I used an ai on off days which probably isn't even needed but I was hoping it'd kick in the neg feedback loop. I always had one day with no ai and no epi tho. So the ai was only three times a week. Gives good boost in performance and recovery to pulse but u won't make the same gains as when u run it straight. It's worth it in my opinion tho cuz I hate shutdown even with a serm
 
mugen112 said:
Great no shutdown. If there was any it wasn't noticeable. I used an ai on off days which probably isn't even needed but I was hoping it'd kick in the neg feedback loop. I always had one day with no ai and no epi tho. So the ai was only three times a week. Gives good boost in performance and recovery to pulse but u won't make the same gains as when u run it straight. It's worth it in my opinion tho cuz I hate shutdown even with a serm
Click to expand...

Cool.

That would be my plan, exactly. Epi on M, W, F, and an AI (Erase, no doubt) on T, R, Sat.

Sunday would be a day off of everything.
 
mugen112 said:
But havoc and epistane r Epitiostanol(methylated), requiring no conversion
Click to expand...

Yes but it first must pass the liver first. I was overall pointing to that the only thing thats different between the two are the names of the product :) One goes in as Havoc, one goes in as Epistane two different names but they both are Epitiostanol ONCED passed through the liver. I probably shouldnt had said conversion, just meant the whole liver process which is fascinating in it self :) lol

-MShreder
Dont Kitty Slap my post plz
 
had questions about running dy formulas m-stane and ep-stane on the same cycle with CEL cycle assist and a PCT any thoughts? Or would it be beneficial to run the two seperatly and not stack?
 
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