sespress
Well-known member
How's ralox stack up against all the others in that class? Is it nasty? I'm assuming it might be cause you're going for that over exemestane and, again, assuming that's cause it's a lot more powerful?
Epistane, Trest, Super-11
- Thread starter sespress
- Start date
hairygrandpa
Legend
Nah, I would take letro over exem and adex. Ralox is a SERM it does not stimulate HPTA as much as nolva, but binds better to e receptors in breast tissue, making it a better choice on-cycle, as I don't need HPTA stimulation. For me it was side effect free.
Spurfy
Active member
Raloxifene is *THE* champion for gyno. 120 mg/day for 12-24 weeks obliterates even pre-existing gyno. For developing gyno, Ralox can destroy it in 48-72 hours.
hairygrandpa
Legend
No need to go that high, it has the nasty side of bone demineralization . 50mg for a week then 25/25/25 was all I needed to shrink my ice cone tits to there normal size (dinner plate, LOL).
EDIT: No bone demineralization, wrong info. Thanks Spurfy
hairygrandpa
Legend
sespress
Well-known member
large hive-like swellings on various parts of the body like the sex organs and limbs.
Well. That's never happened to me with it but... Heck yeah says it'll make my junk bigger. Lol, bad joke. Yeah that's crazy I've never heard of that. I've heard of liver stress but that's all. They must be pretty rare
hairygrandpa
Legend
Major Side Effects
If any of the following side effects occur while taking tamoxifen, check with your doctor immediately:
Less common or rare:
Anxiety
blistering, peeling, or loosening of the skin and mucous membranes
blurred vision
cataracts in the eyes or other eye problems
change in vaginal discharge
chest pain
chills
confusion
cough
dizziness
fainting
fast heartbeat
fever
hoarseness
lightheadedness
lower back or side pain
pain or feeling of pressure in the pelvis
pain or swelling in the legs
pain, redness, or swelling in your arm or leg
painful or difficult urination
rapid shallow breathing
shortness of breath or trouble with breathing
skin rash or itching over the entire body
sweating
weakness or sleepiness
wheezing
vaginal bleeding
yellow eyes or skin
Incidence not known:
Bloating
constipation
darkened urine
diarrhea
difficulty with breathing
indigestion
itching
joint or muscle pain
large, hard skin blisters
large hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
loss of appetite
nausea
pain in the stomach or side, possibly radiating to the back
red, irritated eyes
red skin lesions, often with a purple center
sore throat
sores, ulcers or white spots in the mouth or on the lips
unusual tiredness or weakness
vomiting
Minor Side Effects
Some tamoxifen side effects may not need any medical attention. As your body gets used to the medicine these side effects may disappear. Your health care professional may be able to help you prevent or reduce these side effects, but do check with them if any of the following side effects continue, or if you are concerned about them:
More common:
Absent, missed, or irregular periods
decrease in the amount of urine
feeling of warmth
menstrual changes
noisy, rattling breathing
redness of the face, neck, arms and occasionally, upper chest
skin changes
stopping of menstrual bleeding
swelling of the fingers, hands, feet, or lower legs
troubled breathing at rest
weight gain or loss
white or brownish vaginal discharge
Less common or rare:
Abdominal or stomach cramps
black, tarry stools
bleeding gums
blood in the urine or stools
bluish color changes in skin color
bone pain
decreased interest in sexual intercourse
discouragement
feeling sad or empty
hair loss or thinning of the hair
headache
inability to have or keep an erection
irritability
itching in the genital area
loss of interest or pleasure
loss in sexual ability, desire, drive, or performance
nausea or vomiting (mild)
pain
pinpoint red spots on the skin
skin rash or dryness
stomach or pelvic discomfort, aching, or heaviness
swelling
trouble concentrating
trouble with sleeping
unusual bleeding or bruising
hairygrandpa
Legend
That's the one happening to me....
Spurfy
Active member
Disagree on this:
"Raloxifene preserves BMD at important skeletal sites"
Arch Intern Med. 2000 Dec 11-25;160(22):3444-50.
"his drug has been proven to decrease accelerated bone turnover, increase bone mineral density (BMD), and to structurally recover bone,"
Open Orthop J. 2009; 3: 14–21.
"The women receiving each dose of raloxifene had significant increases from base-line values in bone mineral density of the lumbar spine, hip, and total body"
N Engl J Med 1997; 337:1641-1647
"Five years of raloxifene treatment in healthy postmenopausal women preserves BMD, significantly reduces the likelihood of development of osteoporosis"
Menopause. 2003 Jul-Aug;10(4):337-44.
sespress
Well-known member
Tylenol:
Bloody or black, tarry stools
bloody or cloudy urine
fever with or without chills (not present before treatment and not caused by the condition being treated)
pain in the lower back and/or side (severe and/or sharp)
pinpoint red spots on the skin
skin rash, hives, or itching
sore throat (not present before treatment and not caused by the condition being treated)
sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
sudden decrease in the amount of urine
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual tiredness or weakness
yellow eyes or skin
Bloody or black, tarry stools
bloody or cloudy urine
fever with or without chills (not present before treatment and not caused by the condition being treated)
pain in the lower back and/or side (severe and/or sharp)
pinpoint red spots on the skin
skin rash, hives, or itching
sore throat (not present before treatment and not caused by the condition being treated)
sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
sudden decrease in the amount of urine
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual tiredness or weakness
yellow eyes or skin
hairygrandpa
Legend
Ah, found the link to your mentioned studies. You are right.
I'm changing my position and assert from now on the opposite.
sespress
Well-known member
I've got terrible full body osteoporosis. My arm snapped in half the other day while lifting. Damn inconvenient. I'm adding ralox now. Lol.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Before I started my Ralox - tits - adventure I stumbled over the info that 60mg for 1 week, then 30 for 3 is recommended, because more of it would demineralize bones.
Took it for granted without further research and did less than the recommended dose, with success.
Apparently more is ok too.
That's why I'm here, you never stop to learn something.
See, don't rely on forum info, research more
hairygrandpa
Legend
deleted, double post
sespress
Well-known member
But what about my arm? =)
No seriously though I am bad that way too. I've got some foundations of knowledge but it started off with a ton of misinformation, probably not deliberate on the poster either just mistaken and confident. I still make the error these days, but less so here on AM, people post studies and challenge information that's wrong or sounds wonky. It's actually really nice, I get in to reading these posts and tht links. Kinda makes me think I should have gone for medicine instead of computers and networks.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Yep, and oxygen oxidizes you, killing you in the end, LOL. Crazy world we live in....
sespress
Well-known member
Side effects of PCT include: missing your cycle.
All in all in doing fine so far just a bit sensitive to temperature at night and a bit listless. This is how I have always remembered the first week off.
Of course the last cycle in recent memory was an andro cycle and PCT from that was really easy.
I did manage to get back/biceps done today at home using the TRX bands, hard to log that, your angle with your feet is roughly how much weight your doing.
One thing I noticed was I was still getting crazy pumps line I was at the last two weeks, what makes that linger, rather hasn't decreased at all. I'm sure some science somewhere explains it.
All in all in doing fine so far just a bit sensitive to temperature at night and a bit listless. This is how I have always remembered the first week off.
Of course the last cycle in recent memory was an andro cycle and PCT from that was really easy.
I did manage to get back/biceps done today at home using the TRX bands, hard to log that, your angle with your feet is roughly how much weight your doing.
One thing I noticed was I was still getting crazy pumps line I was at the last two weeks, what makes that linger, rather hasn't decreased at all. I'm sure some science somewhere explains it.
sespress
Well-known member
So quick update, PCT is going well, not too rough after the first few days. I def picked up some bloat from the HCG right before I started my SERMs but it's gone now. I'm on shift so I won't log anything until tomorrow / next day.
Torem is in. Going to switch over well maybe still doing last minute reading, any recommendations on dose for that in PCT? Currently conformable on 25/25 clomid/nolva
Torem is in. Going to switch over well maybe still doing last minute reading, any recommendations on dose for that in PCT? Currently conformable on 25/25 clomid/nolva
Cgkone
Well-known member
You will get overwhelming info on AM against both nolva and Clomid. Overkill being the reason.
I've only used reasearch SERMs in pct and when I added nolva to my Clomid regimen I felt much better.
Also Hcg made my sense of well being enhanced. Sex drive enhanced also.
Now that estro is being blocked you should feel more pros than cons with hcg
sespress
Well-known member
All done with the HCG, Just the week before PCT. And yah I have seen the "my sides are bad on 100mg clomid", I'm just interested in not dropping igf1 and nolva is notorious for this. However I've been reading more and folks say torem may do the same things as they are closely related. Less toxic though, that's another reason. So I could do just clomid but I've always done better splitting the dose between the two.
Cgkone
Well-known member
You decide on what's more important.
Compromises igf levels or speed of recovery.
You need to get your nails working ASAP.
So you still have peps? Mk/cjc/ghrp.
I ran Clomid 100mg for week1 felt it helped but you'll get lectured on AM about that dose too.
hairygrandpa
Legend
I did 200mg clomid... <---- forum sh1tstorm approaching
sespress
Well-known member
And? Did you really? Did you like feel crazy?
But in all seriousness I'm not like sold on the torem.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Clomid treated me well, did not feel any sides, not even at 200mg. It was from a local pharmacy, here without prescription.
sespress
Well-known member
Huh. You hear crazy reports of guys getting crazy emotional or sweating or a variety of other nuisance level side effects. I've never actually come across a report of a serious side on a forum. But still damn!
sespress
Well-known member
The Toremifene dosage required for this purpose, however, is much larger than the Toremifene dosage required for the mitigation or blocking of gynecomastia. Studies have demonstrated that Toremifene, when administered at doses of 60mg daily, raised Testosterone levels in test subjects by 42%[2]. This is a significant increase, but is much lower when compared to a standard 20mg daily dose of Nolvadex in the same study, which increased Testosterone levels by 71%. Therefore, it has been determined that Toremifene is not as potent as Nolvadex for this purpose and that instead, the Toremifene dosage for a more effective boost in Testosterone production should be in the range of 120mg per day. This dose can be maintained for a 4 – 6 week PCT period, but some anabolic steroid users have also opted to taper their doses down (for example, 120mg/day for the first week of PCT, 100mg/day for the second week of PCT, and then 60mg/day for the remaining 3 – 4 weeks of PCT).
That's from steroidal. The dose seems huge! 120??
That's from steroidal. The dose seems huge! 120??
Cgkone
Well-known member
Seems like that would help your igf concerns.
Lots of people use peps in pct. Then you could possibly run them up to or through next cycle
Cgkone
Well-known member
I used peg mfg and like it much less than mfg.
I'm on mfg 250mcg in each side right after work out.
Biceps tris delta each get their own day.
Such a cool drug. Once I can afford it I'll stack with IGF lr3.
Cgkone
Well-known member
I ran 100mg no prob.
Clomid worked good. Could feel test levels increasing daily
hairygrandpa
Legend
Don't want to spoil your euphoria -but google: Patrick Arnold on IGF-Lr3. Supposedly no other benefits as slin, but more expensive.
Personally I'm done with any IGF peptide for hypertrophy. Used them for months and did not get anything other than a "pump".
PEG-MGF, I read, has NOT a longer half live as claimed. Molecules are bigger and too large to dock onto receptors, giving the illusion of a longer half live -but I heard its more stable in solution. MGF by itself supposedly is very fragile.
I used PEG-MGF together with BPC and had great success healing my supraspinatus tear.
Cgkone
Well-known member
Yeah I know lots of people give pros a poor review.
But I know mgf works out a good 1/4 inch on my stuborn biceps.
So is the lr3 the part that's no good.
Because if somebody was to claim real igf has no benefits then I'd have to disagree
Cgkone
Well-known member
Getting real stuff is the hard part
I know a source but is 250 for 1200mcg
Also does spin work in site specific fashion?
sespress
Well-known member
Oh that is interesting. Might be placebo but I feel like I recovered faster using the peg mgf. Again that could be me just being hopeful.
I was thinking too that I could run the ghrp stuff but I remember bloat and hunger constantly. I actually did good on mk. Perhaps that's the way to go this PCT.
Cgkone
Well-known member
Your making new cells with mgf or trying to
sespress
Well-known member
For which one that sounds excessive but I'll have to check myself which your talking about and how much it is where I go.
sespress
Well-known member
Right. Myoblast division
..... I think.
Cgkone
Well-known member
Yup so I'm not sure about "feeling" better recovery.
From what I gather its a slow steady process in other peptides really help and AAS.
sespress
Well-known member
Ok so thinking of getting blood work done. Since I'm taking an AI and SERMs I know my estrogen and test numbers will be meaningless. I'm thinking getting a basic metabolic panel and cortisol and lipids.
How long after PCT does one wait to test numbers. Like a bit more of a month right?
How long after PCT does one wait to test numbers. Like a bit more of a month right?
sespress
Well-known member
Also I've been taking a small amount of tudca this last week. 250mg morning and night. Clomid @25 / Nolva @25 / Exemestane @ 12.5eod.
Going to add mk or CJC w DAC this week. Still on the fence on which. I was thinking 12.5mk Ed or CJC 3mg/week (3x 1mg shots Monday Wednesday and Friday).
Using v11-kt iron legion for cortisol control.
So I can tell the SERMs might need to be bumped up a bit, I feel like the AI is set and good but I have felt some disconformt in the pecs, a feeling I've come to associate with the gyno alarm. Nothing has formed or puffed up recently.
I'm wondering if more SERMs or if I should just tap on a small amount of letrozole once a week or so at 1.5mg. it wouldn't be all the time, bit that still might be too much. I'm not sure. I don't want to increase the SERMs or the AI as their already a bunch of both. I feel like in a week or two this will become controlled on a lower dose anyways and the SERMs have all kinds of negatives to them as we know.
Let me know your thoughts!
Going to add mk or CJC w DAC this week. Still on the fence on which. I was thinking 12.5mk Ed or CJC 3mg/week (3x 1mg shots Monday Wednesday and Friday).
Using v11-kt iron legion for cortisol control.
So I can tell the SERMs might need to be bumped up a bit, I feel like the AI is set and good but I have felt some disconformt in the pecs, a feeling I've come to associate with the gyno alarm. Nothing has formed or puffed up recently.
I'm wondering if more SERMs or if I should just tap on a small amount of letrozole once a week or so at 1.5mg. it wouldn't be all the time, bit that still might be too much. I'm not sure. I don't want to increase the SERMs or the AI as their already a bunch of both. I feel like in a week or two this will become controlled on a lower dose anyways and the SERMs have all kinds of negatives to them as we know.
Let me know your thoughts!
Cgkone
Well-known member
Well the general consensus here at AM is that after 50mg SERMs more is no better.
Also hell yeah you feel like **** Trest is super hard on the balls.
People are scared of that drug for a reason.
But I've ran Clomid at 100mg and it was better than 50 IMO.
Also if it's research stuff it may be underdosed.
Cgkone
Well-known member
I meant 250 for igf
I don't know anything about insulin and was wondering if it's site specifically effective.
sespress
Well-known member
Less injections and I liked it better. That's basically it.
sespress
Well-known member
Nah it's all pharma, except the torem which is RC and like a jelly almost, line warm Vaseline, in consistency. I've never had issues choking stuff down but that was terrible and I've not used it since lol. The exemestane is RC but it's fine used it all cycle. The letro is RC. Again it's fine. I haven't had the low dose issues yet but I hear you on that.
But what about the letro? Can I use it once a week or so if I feel like the estrogen is getting high or do I need to increase the other stuff (SERMs or AI)?