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Epistane, Trest, Super-11

Not that this makes your stuff weaker or stronger, I can see the body bouncing something from one form to another trying to convert. I'm looking to see if I can find the remainder of the info on what mentabolan does convert to. Notice it says "may act as the prohormone". Not does.
 
That's my biggest gripe.
MENT is not the prohormone to trest.
At least that's what I get out of it.
But the fact is that the stuff that is trest seems to be weaker than MENT.
And there is a reason I just can't remember.
I have more free time to research today so I'll possibly look.
 
Cgkone said:
That's my biggest gripe.
MENT is not the prohormone to trest.
At least that's what I get out of it.
But the fact is that the stuff that is trest seems to be weaker than MENT.
And there is a reason I just can't remember.
I have more free time to research today so I'll possibly look.
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Holy fuk dude.

MENT is fukn trestolone. MENT is the pharma name for the investigational male contraceptive.

The "ment" you have, by grimm labs, is mentabolan. Its a prohormone.

Invalid Link Removed

^please note the nomenclature for mentabolan, and the nomenclature on your bottle of "ment". Its the same.

And its different to OL tr3st.
 
Nac said:
Holy fuk dude.

MENT is fukn trestolone. MENT is the pharma name for the investigational male contraceptive.

The "ment" you have, by grimm labs, is mentabolan. Its a prohormone.

Invalid Link Removed

^please note the nomenclature for mentabolan, and the nomenclature on your bottle of "ment". Its the same.

And its different to OL tr3st.
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So MENT converts to trest?
Can you run it down one more time
 
Because I just can't wrap my head around how it can convert to a stronger version of something.
How can 20mg blow away 70 mg?
I get the MENT name being generic.
 
I'll actually un-hi-Jack this thread
Hehehe.
Once I come across the actual explanation I'll post it.
But it being the PH to trest is just not clarifying it for me.
The fact that it's a PH to the target steroid Trest does nothing to clear up why it's 5xs stronger(or more)
 
Im no chemist.

Again, Ive based my claims/beliefs primarily on:

1) what Pat Arnold has said in regards to trestolone/MENT(the male contraceptive drug) both at old threads on bbc0m and PHF. In doing so he uses exactly the same nomenclature as what is found on the OL tr3st labels. OL tr3st is NOT the prohormone "mentabolan". OLs trest came under alot of heat at PHF when first released, as it was the main competitor for the Celtic Labs version (or Pure Oils, cant remember); are we really to believe no-one picked up that it was actually the prohormone? No, its the active steroid.

2) MrCooper69 posted the MENT(trestolone) pharmacokenetic studies in the original OL tr3st thread here at AM. I find it extremely unlikely he didnt notice OL tr3st was actually mentabolan going by nomenclature. Again, it is trestolone/MENT.

3) Nostrum has posted at PHF noting the different nomenclatures and chemical structures of trestolone/MENT vs mentabolan.

4) Ive yet to encounter reliable sources which contradict any of the above.

All the current evidence indicates OL tr3st is trestolone/MENT, and Grimm "MENT"is actually the prohormone mentabolan.

At this point I really dunno what else to add. Im ONLY going by the labels, not what is in the actual capsules.
 
That would be weird if the PH was that much stronger.
Since PHs are banned all these companies have to produce the weaker actual steroid.
Bizzare but it must be true.
Glad I stocked up on reaper labs stuff
 
Now - Related to my free test being at 50. (you ever see "Idiocracy" the movie? That show "OW MY BALLS" came to mind). I show no atrophy but I'm sure they're gonna start shrinking if it stays down there any longer. PCT is gonna be effing hell. No emotional movies allowed, or I might just start hanging out with my girlfriends girlfriends and watching Bravo. Fuk that, Fuk Bravo, HCG launch codes are out. BTW gentleman for your protection you should be aware that watching any show on Bravo for more than 30 minutes actually lowers free test numbers. Science proves it. It increases the chance of suicidal tenancies in men, followed by husbands and boyfriends tossing their weights through the television to make the real housewives shut the F up. Ok am I derailing my own thread? I've been up all night writing code and just got back from the gym. I'm not really with it, I've erased this whole post 3 times.
 
Attempt 2 at a sane post:
Thanks to mmorso for suggesting I use it now versus save it until after PCT has potentially failed. Good call bro, lots of reading later I see I probably aught to have been hitting that up the whole damn time.

So I'm gonna use HCG for the remainder of the cycle, leading up to PCT, Feel free to rope in someone more familiar if you are reading this, are not positive, or just know a more informed person on the board. I have no idea who to tag for HCG help.

So I read now in two places that you need to take HCG w/ a SERM even on Cycle? Why does that seem like BS to me? That sounds like I'm in PCT suddenly. Won't my AI take care of any additional rise in Testosterone and stop estrogen conversion or is HCG stimulating the production of that in another way I'm not aware of? I cannot find anything to support that hypothesis.

However I feel bloated today, look it too. Could be the whole no sleep bit. If the bloat increases or doesn't go away then I'll figure it's the HCG. My Estradiol numbers were (30.1) on that test I took so the exemestane is coping right now, but I could see it not coping if there's Trestalone and regular testosterone to start dealing with. Maybe I'll up the Exemestane? I could tap the Letro button once more (like a 1.5mg single dose), but I hesitate to do that.

I was gonna shoot for like 1000iu of HCG week for these next two weeks then go into PCT. Why more than 500? b/c ppl say to do 500 the whole way through the cycle and I haven't kept up. I know blasting it right at the end isn't advised so I thought go half-way between those philosophies. So I took a 300iu shot subQ in the belly yesterday..... should I have felt anything when I took that 300iu shot? I didn't really notice anything much, maybe I'm just not supposed to?
 
sespress said:
Attempt 2 at a sane post:
Thanks to mmorso for suggesting I use it now versus save it until after PCT has potentially failed. Good call bro, lots of reading later I see I probably aught to have been hitting that up the whole damn time.

So I'm gonna use HCG for the remainder of the cycle, leading up to PCT, Feel free to rope in someone more familiar if you are reading this, are not positive, or just know a more informed person on the board. I have no idea who to tag for HCG help.

So I read now in two places that you need to take HCG w/ a SERM even on Cycle? Why does that seem like BS to me? That sounds like I'm in PCT suddenly. Won't my AI take care of any additional rise in Testosterone and stop estrogen conversion or is HCG stimulating the production of that in another way I'm not aware of? I cannot find anything to support that hypothesis.

However I feel bloated today, look it too. Could be the whole no sleep bit. If the bloat increases or doesn't go away then I'll figure it's the HCG. My Estradiol numbers were (30.1) on that test I took so the exemestane is coping right now, but I could see it not coping if there's Trestalone and regular testosterone to start dealing with. Maybe I'll up the Exemestane? I could tap the Letro button once more (like a 1.5mg single dose), but I hesitate to do that.

I was gonna shoot for like 1000iu of HCG week for these next two weeks then go into PCT. Why more than 500? b/c ppl say to do 500 the whole way through the cycle and I haven't kept up. I know blasting it right at the end isn't advised so I thought go half-way between those philosophies. So I took a 300iu shot subQ in the belly yesterday..... should I have felt anything when I took that 300iu shot? I didn't really notice anything much, maybe I'm just not supposed to?
Click to expand...
Spurfy any insights here re hcg?
 
Idk man personally I'd just do 250iu x2 a week, as you would coming off an AAS cycle.

My logic: although (as we've discussed earlier) trestolone and 19nors are notorious for causing shutdown, you're only doing a 6-8 wk cycle and haven't experienced any testicular atrophy at this point. Why blast 1000iu? Doesn't make sense to me
 
Nac said:
Spurfy any insights here re hcg?
Click to expand...

hCG is okay for one quick blast of 1000 iu E3D for 3 shots before immediately hitting a SERM. Honestly, using a SERM on-cycle is just the best way to go, but I'm an uninformed maverick renegade weirdo.

hCG should be reserved for "I need my balls to work *right now*" emergencies, like you're on-cycle but need your girl pregnant ASAP.
 
Spurfy said:
hCG is okay for one quick blast of 1000 iu E3D for 3 shots before immediately hitting a SERM. Honestly, using a SERM on-cycle is just the best way to go, but I'm an uninformed maverick renegade weirdo.

hCG should be reserved for "I need my balls to work *right now*" emergencies, like you're on-cycle but need your girl pregnant ASAP.
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I suspect that this may not be a case of black and white, but as to using hcg during PCT Crisler seems pretty adamantly "no, supressive!" whereas Scally appears to very much endorse it during this time. Youre meh either way, SERM on-cycle is better/easier all-round?
 
Nac said:
I suspect that this may not be a case of black and white, but as to using hcg during PCT Crisler seems pretty adamantly "no, supressive!" whereas Scally appears to very much endorse it during this time. Youre meh either way, SERM on-cycle is better/easier all-round?
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I don't see anything that hCG does that SERMs don't do, better, except when an *immediate* jumpstart is needed. Really, though, I suspect high dose (120 mg) toremifene is just as capable at getting the balls going within 72 hours as hCG.

Dosing hCG for anything but fertility is complete voodoo.
 
Spurfy said:
hCG is okay for one quick blast of 1000 iu E3D for 3 shots before immediately hitting a SERM. Honestly, using a SERM on-cycle is just the best way to go, but I'm an uninformed maverick renegade weirdo.

hCG should be reserved for "I need my balls to work *right now*" emergencies, like you're on-cycle but need your girl pregnant ASAP.
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First lol. Pregnant immediately. Lol.

Ok I hear you. I've got two weeks left. I'm gonna try the 300 this week, and hit it twice more next week then PCT is right up.

I just figured it would help get things going, make PCT easier. I don't think it can really hurt, I've been reading more about it.

If you run a SERM on cycle what dose do you go for? And you got tormefierime no nolva or clomid (the standards?)
 
So I didn't log my back and bi day yesterday. Can't remember my lifts today. Had a wonderful 16 hour work day. Locked in until we finished. They brought us food but it was pizza and sandwiches. **** up my diet today big time. It was that or not eat.

Prepped my chicken tonight. Judy chicken and some Italian dressing mix, Olive oil and balsamic vinegar. Marinated and baked. Yum.
 
mmorso said:
Idk man personally I'd just do 250iu x2 a week, as you would coming off an AAS cycle.

My logic: although (as we've discussed earlier) trestolone and 19nors are notorious for causing shutdown, you're only doing a 6-8 wk cycle and haven't experienced any testicular atrophy at this point. Why blast 1000iu? Doesn't make sense to me
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Cause free test at 50? I knew I'd be supressed but holy crap right? I just want it closer to normal before the trest is gone. Might be too much but you see my reasoning.

Like my other post I'll break it up a bit more so the 1000iu goes over two weeks. I might try the nolva with at 20 starting next week, kind of fade one into the other? HCG is new territory to me.
 
sespress said:
Cause free test at 50? I knew I'd be supressed but holy crap right? I just want it closer to normal before the trest is gone. Might be too much but you see my reasoning.
Click to expand...

That's not how it works bud (from my understanding). You'll be suppressed until you stop taking suppressive drugs and start a SERM; I don't think your test levels will go up at all.

I wouldn't start taking a SERM on cycle unless I developed gyno. That's me though
 
sespress said:
First lol. Pregnant immediately. Lol.

Ok I hear you. I've got two weeks left. I'm gonna try the 300 this week, and hit it twice more next week then PCT is right up.

I just figured it would help get things going, make PCT easier. I don't think it can really hurt, I've been reading more about it.
Click to expand...

Can't hurt as long as you don't run it high-dose for extended periods.

If you run a SERM on cycle what dose do you go for? And you got tormefierime no nolva or clomid (the standards?)
Click to expand...

On cycle, I run toremifene 60 mg ED. Off cycle, I run it 15 mg E3D.

For those who don't want to (or can't source pharma-grade torem), tamoxifen 20 mg or clomid 50 mg ED should do about the same. Unfortunately, the latter two SERMs kind of suck, at least compared to torem. Tamoxifen, especially, is liver toxic, carcinogenic, and lowers IGF-1 -- toremifene does none of these.
 
Spurfy said:
Can't hurt as long as you don't run it high-dose for extended periods.



On cycle, I run toremifene 60 mg ED. Off cycle, I run it 15 mg E3D.

For those who don't want to (or can't source pharma-grade torem), tamoxifen 20 mg or clomid 50 mg ED should do about the same. Unfortunately, the latter two SERMs kind of suck, at least compared to torem. Tamoxifen, especially, is liver toxic, carcinogenic, and lowers IGF-1 -- toremifene does none of these.
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I've been reading about it. Seems promising and I've heard both of those things about nolva. Will go that route down the road I think. However long it is before I cycle again.
 
mmorso said:
That's not how it works bud (from my understanding). You'll be suppressed until you stop taking suppressive drugs and start a SERM; I don't think your test levels will go up at all.

I wouldn't start taking a SERM on cycle unless I developed gyno. That's me though
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Ok but isn't it used to "reboot" after a failed PCT? I'm reading more tonight. I've just finished up my second 16 hour day at work. I feel like total azz from lack of sleep. I'll to to post again tomorrow. I'm gonna science it up and up my understanding of this stuff. PCT may come early, or rather I'm not going to go that extra mile I wanted to.
I think my body is done with these oral methyls. It's been a good cycle, enjoyable, I've lowered my bf % a good amount, weight is down and I look and feel stronger. Oh and I learned a ton. 44 pages of posts and great information from all involved!
 
Spurfy what's the point of taking torem on cycle? To prevent testicular atrophy or what? I mean it's not going to keep endogenous test levels up is it?
 
mmorso said:
Spurfy what's the point of taking torem on cycle? To prevent testicular atrophy or what? I mean it's not going to keep endogenous test levels up is it?
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That is apparently also the justification for taking HCG throughout. Maybe torem is doing it a bit too? This is interesting.
 
sespress said:
BTW mmorso when are you gearing up? Is the baby here yet? Did I ask you that a few weeks ago lol?
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lol I've just been talking to ryane87 about this... I've got a wedding in June and will be entering pct like 5 days before going on vacation so I'm undecided on running it.

I wanna be able to keep up the training in pct.. ryane87 mentioned that I could time it to where my vacation is the last week on cycle before starting my SERMS... that's very tempting. Idk though cause I'll be drinking very heavily at this wedding and that might be no good after 6 wks of epistane.
 
If you are drinking heavily, I would leave it all alone until after the wedding. I forgot you like drinky time...lol
 
ryane87 said:
If you are drinking heavily, I would leave it all alone until after the wedding. I forgot you like drinky time...lol
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Yep there's the dilemma then.. if I wait till after June I'm gonna run a 15 wk test cycle and say fck the epistane...

I'll kickstart with trest and finish with Anavar...

I wanted to get 2 cycles in this year but sh1t...
 
Your health is more important. Plus, if you wanted, you could slide the epistane in the middle of the cycle between the trest and anavar.
 
mmorso said:
lol I've just been talking to ryane87 about this... I've got a wedding in June and will be entering pct like 5 days before going on vacation so I'm undecided on running it.

I wanna be able to keep up the training in pct.. ryane87 mentioned that I could time it to where my vacation is the last week on cycle before starting my SERMS... that's very tempting. Idk though cause I'll be drinking very heavily at this wedding and that might be no good after 6 wks of epistane.
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Oh yeah man I dunno I did not respond super well liver wise to my run, bit that might just be me, or the addition of trest. We're you gonna go that way for a test base also?

I Wonder if you could take a few days off cycle to drink, but that might be a roller coaster hormonally. otherwise that is a tricky proposition! I'm not sure how I'd time it either. Weddings drinking is mandatory lol. I've told myself when PCT is over that I'll have myself a glass of scotch to celebrate. No booze for me for like 6 months now. I got a bottle of Lagavulin 16 Year Single Malt at home just half full. I treasure it. I barely drink anymore so I figure $100 bottles of scotch are ok if they last all year ?. If you've never had it before it's the king of scotch! Served neat, of course.
 
mmorso said:
Another thing I might do is run test/eq and leave out the orals
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Dude after this run I'm thinking a non oral next for sure. I dunno how beat up I like my liver. I have always been partial to liver pate with crackers .... but that's not my liver and it's also usually a ducks haha.

I feel run down, could be enzyme or my 2x 16 hour work days. Seriously the lack of sleep is more damaging to me right now than anything and I NEED the sleep on these drugs. Plus no sleep = no gains. Something has to give with this job, I love working DDoS network defense... Is high tech, fast paced, pays great .... But it's killing me. I mean really I go back tomorrow for a minimum of 10 + working from home on Monday. I'll hit 60 hours easy in 4 days. It's just not sustainable. The guys I work with.... They've let this schedule and **** destroy their health. I'm not gonna do that. I'll work hard and even more than I'm asked to if I think it's needed but I'm not gonna do this live to work thing. It's ultimately gonna kill these boys I work with. They all say that they are amazed I'm losing weight while working here, they've all put on 20-30lbs each YEAR they've had the job. **** that.
 
sespress said:
That is apparently also the justification for taking HCG throughout. Maybe torem is doing it a bit too? This is interesting.
Click to expand...
Hcg keeps the balls working even oncyle.
Make seemen production go up and you just feel better.
Start the hcg now if you want it will help.
 
sespress said:
Dude after this run I'm thinking a non oral next for sure. I dunno how beat up I like my liver. I have always been partial to liver pate with crackers .... but that's not my liver and it's also usually a ducks haha.

I feel run down, could be enzyme or my 2x 16 hour work days. Seriously the lack of sleep is more damaging to me right now than anything and I NEED the sleep on these drugs. Plus no sleep = no gains. Something has to give with this job, I love working DDoS network defense... Is high tech, fast paced, pays great .... But it's killing me. I mean really I go back tomorrow for a minimum of 10 + working from home on Monday. I'll hit 60 hours easy in 4 days. It's just not sustainable. The guys I work with.... They've let this schedule and **** destroy their health. I'm not gonna do that. I'll work hard and even more than I'm asked to if I think it's needed but I'm not gonna do this live to work thing. It's ultimately gonna kill these boys I work with. They all say that they are amazed I'm losing weight while working here, they've all put on 20-30lbs each YEAR they've had the job. **** that.
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A real cycle with just test and Deca feels so much more organic.
No ups and downs you always feel the same.
You can cycle longer it's healthier safer and the gains are better
Oral only cycle are for people that can't inject for what ever reason.
Also isn't the trest non liver toxic?
Either way
Test is safe and just way better
 
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