Epistane/Trenavar Stack for Cutting/Fat loss. Advice needed.

[Honey]

So I'm just about to finish my second cycle of 1/4 Andro and I'm really happy with the results so far. I've always been deathly skinny and with this I put on 10 kgs and my muscles are visibly larger and I can lift way heavier than before.

However, along with those gains I've also gained a little fat, noticeably my belly. I've tweaked my diet so it contains less fat, but my question is would an Epistane/Trenavar be a good next step to further maximize my muscle growth but also help me lose that fat and work towards a 6-pack?

Any advice regarding the stack would be great.

I'd also appreciate any advice on low-fat foods that still pack on some calories.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

Short answer, no. A better diet would help you put on less fat. I wouldn't be so worried about fat, I'd be more worried about too many carbs. What do your kcals look like? Height age weight bf? Macros?

 

[Honey]

Short answer, no. A better diet would help you put on less fat. I wouldn't be so worried about fat, I'd be more worried about too many carbs. What do your kcals look like? Height age weight bf? Macros?

Well I want to consume around 2500 calories a day but I'm finding it hard to find foods that meet the Macros.

Aiming for around 70g Fat
And 300g Carbs
Protein 155g

29 yrs old. 155 Pounds.

I'm not sure what my BF is but I believe it's somewhere around 25%

 

[Juicedeez utz]

Personally I'd up the protein to 1.5g/lb, you can do it with shakes or whatever you want, protein is protein. And drop the carbs to suit. I put on a lot of fat with anything over about 250g carbs a day, but that's all I need to perform great and I'm 210lbs 12%bf.

 

[Honey]

Personally I'd up the protein to 1.5g/lb, you can do it with shakes or whatever you want, protein is protein. And drop the carbs to suit. I put on a lot of fat with anything over about 250g carbs a day, but that's all I need to perform great and I'm 210lbs 12%bf.

Ok thanks.

Any particular foods you'd recommend that work really well for you?

 

[Juicedeez utz]

Carbs I use oats,weetabix, potato, rice, veg, fruit
Fats: PB, dark chocolate, meat, eggs, chai seeds, nuts.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

Also on non workout days I drop my carbs down by about 100g and fill the rest of the cals up with fat.

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

1. Eliminate all fluids except water
2. Eliminate all sugars
3. Decrease your carbs or eliminate it
4. Cardio

 

[Honey]

So after reconfiguring my diet, I'm still thinking about cycling these two.

But how 'heavy' is this stack? I feel like it's quite risky.

Any advice on doses/products?

Thanks

 

[The Whizard]

I don’t see anything about PCT + time off here. Did you PCT?

 

[Honey]

I don’t see anything about PCT + time off here. Did you PCT?

No, that was part of the question. How would I run these two while still maintaining good stamina/joints/etc?

 

[The Whizard]

Did you PCT after the andro

 

[Honey]

Did you PCT after the andro

I'm just about to come out of it and I will PCT with Nolva and Alphamax. I will then wait 4 weeks before starting anything.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I'm just about to come out of it and I will PCT with Nolva and Alphamax. I will then wait 4 weeks before starting anything.

4 weeks isn’t near long enough. Wait 3-4 months

 

[AnabolicGuru]

4 weeks isn’t near long enough. Wait 3-4 months

Op, keep in mind, the point of cycling not only is for overall health, but also to allow the body to return to homeostasis before cycling back on. It takes months for the body to return to homeostasis, and can even take upwards of a year for some people. If you ignore this and just cycle on and off repetitively without proper off time, you’ll suffer permanent suppression and be bound for trt in no time.

 

[Chados]

Dont stack two orals and no they won't burn fat. They'll give a little lean mass that will make you look leaner but you're not gonna burn 25% body fat down to even 20 on a cycle like that. You need to diet it down. Sometimes after a cycle you loose some bloat so wait and see where youre at.

I know people hate syringes but I'm gonna be totally honest with you. A test cycle alone will crush any prohormone out there and I don't see the point keep on going for these stacks when youll get twice the result from test alone and it's easier to keep. The only ph that really blew my mind was nanodrol and even then I wouldn't skip test.

I'm not suggesting you to take anything but this is just my personal experience.

 

[Honey]

Dont stack two orals and no they won't burn fat. They'll give a little lean mass that will make you look leaner but you're not gonna burn 25% body fat down to even 20 on a cycle like that. You need to diet it down. Sometimes after a cycle you loose some bloat so wait and see where youre at.

I know people hate syringes but I'm gonna be totally honest with you. A test cycle alone will crush any prohormone out there and I don't see the point keep on going for these stacks when youll get twice the result from test alone and it's easier to keep. The only ph that really blew my mind was nanodrol and even then I wouldn't skip test.

I'm not suggesting you to take anything but this is just my personal experience.

Sure. I appreciate the advice.

What can you tell me about Nanodrol? What did you use it for? How were the results?

 

[edsd]

So I'm just about to finish my second cycle of 1/4 Andro and I'm really happy with the results so far. I've always been deathly skinny and with this I put on 10 kgs and my muscles are visibly larger and I can lift way heavier than before.

However, along with those gains I've also gained a little fat, noticeably my belly. I've tweaked my diet so it contains less fat, but my question is would an Epistane/Trenavar be a good next step to further maximize my muscle growth but also help me lose that fat and work towards a 6-pack?

Any advice regarding the stack would be great.

I'd also appreciate any advice on low-fat foods that still pack on some calories.

don't cut fats to cut fat. cut carbs. fats are essential and can aid in fat loss but carbs will not. replace carby meals with a table spoon of olive or or some other mono/saturated fat. get healthy fats, no trans fat.

 

[Chados]

Sure. I appreciate the advice.

What can you tell me about Nanodrol? What did you use it for? How were the results?

Well it actually gave me quite the size and vasularity. My shoulders completely blew up.. I'm very responsive to everything though so I can't promise that to everyone but I've tried a lot of things and as a ph it's the only thing that to me can compare with real aas. It does what epistane does but waaaaay better.. people can argue superdrol is as powerful but it also gives bloat, nanodrol keeps it clean.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

SD doesn’t give you bloat. It’s dry as all hell. Maybe if you have some inflammation issues with your gut you might get bloat but not from SD directly. 100% would beat nanodrol for strength and size if you get a good clone but you will feel like death while on it my opinion

 

[Chados]

SD doesn’t give you bloat. It’s dry as all hell. Maybe if you have some inflammation issues with your gut you might get bloat but not from SD directly. 100% would beat nanodrol for strength and size if you get a good clone but you will feel like death while on it

The old sd is really dry but not the new , or am I wrong here? I have used both and nanodrol might give less weight but no way it beats nanodrol when it comes to gain lean muscle mass. I got about the same size but nano made me loose fat at the same time while I gained fat on sd. strenght might be better on sd though that's true.. didn't find nanodrol being insane but still really good.

If sd is deca nano is tren.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

What, I put on loads of fat with nanodrol with only 300kcal over maintenance. There is no new version of SD there is good clones and rubbish ones haha you ask anyone who’s used real SD it’s one of the best lean mass builders out there and gives you a dry astheic look....

 

[Chados]

I'm not saying sd is a bloat machine, just that any cycle can give a bit bloat from sodium.. I got nice gains don't get me wrong but nano changed my body, I lost all fat on my shoulders. Maybe we're reacting differently

I don't think nanodrol gives as much strenght , I don't think it gives as much weight either but my body looked far better after nanodrol. Used sd twice and nano twice. I stayed at the same calories by the way, didn't try to bulk.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

Yeah everyone responds different and nanodrol did blow me up but I felt it was a lot of glycogen and water. The body is a strange thing and everyone is different!

 

[Chados]

There was a guy , body builder at predator who swore by nano above many real aas but yeah sd is proven and I agree it's a great compound. I just got so much vascularity on nano.


Did you get any sides from nano? That's another reason I like it cause I felt great while on sd I had huge backpumps

 

[Juicedeez utz]

He would swear by it, he works at Predator haha I got the worst back pumps I’ve ever experienced, crippling while doing heavy squats, had to leave the gym early twice! Otherwise felt great on it! No BP issues, no headaches, no lethargy! Nice compound but I think it would have served me better as a recomp to be honest! Methyl-tren will probably be the best oral when I get round to it (don’t fear it anymore) haha

 

[Chados]

No he's not working there, he was from Belgium I believe, huge guy..

I'm thinking about tren, test next cycle.. it's one hell of a compound

 

[Juicedeez utz]

I’m talking methyl-tren, it’s an oral. My next cycle is var n test

 

[Honey]

So Nano is that much better than Epistane? I always thought Epistane was the general "best bet" compound.

Also, what's the best Nano product out there?

 

[Chados]

Nanodrol is it's own product .. there is nanobol too but a different compound. Epistane is nowhere near nanodrol. I personally only saw some slight change to my body with epi.. got a bit leaner that's all, it does give strenght to some degree though

 

[Honey]

I've heard it's quite harsh. Would TUDCA alone be a wise choice for support? (and Nolva for PCT) for a 6 week cycle.

 

[edsd]

So Nano is that much better than Epistane? I always thought Epistane was the general "best bet" compound.

Also, what's the best Nano product out there?

There are no best compounds. they all do something a little different or impact your body a little different. some make you put on more water, some less, some are harsher on your body, some are mild or safer.

no single cycle will turn you into a monster. people are jacked and yolked look that way because of years of eating and lifting. Even the best compounds wont do anything for you if you arent eating and lifting right.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I’ve ran both nanodrol (msten) and rpn havoc (epistane) In my opinion, epistane was better for mass, especially in terms of quality. Nanodrol is better for strength. Both present low sides; the most concerning side would be epistane’s potential for rebound estro issues, which shouldn’t be much of an issue if you keep some exemestane on hand, which I advise you do for any cycle. To give you a better understanding of nanodrol; it is nanoparticulated methylstenbolone. Nanoparticulation is said to enhance bioavailability and absorption by 50-60%, which would make the 15mg dose of nanodrol equivalent to 22.5-26mg methylstenbolone. Op, based on your goals, I’d say epistane is the better route, but as I’ve said before, I think cutting on anabolics is a waste which should make perfect sense considering that anabolics are meant to build muscle and not cut fat. Feel free to ask my anything about nanodrol btw.

 

[Chados]

I’ve ran both nanodrol (msten) and rpn havoc (epistane) In my opinion, epistane was better for mass, especially in terms of quality. Nanodrol is better for strength. Both present low sides; the most concerning side would be epistane’s potential for rebound estro issues, which shouldn’t be much of an issue if you keep some exemestane on hand, which I advise you do for any cycle. To give you a better understanding of nanodrol; it is nanoparticulated methylstenbolone. Nanoparticulation is said to enhance bioavailability and absorption by 50-60%, which would make the 15mg dose of nanodrol equivalent to 22.5-26mg methylstenbolone. Op, based on your goals, I’d say epistane is the better route, but as I’ve said before, I think cutting on anabolics is a waste which should make perfect sense considering that anabolics are meant to build muscle and not cut fat. Feel free to ask my anything about nanodrol btw.

That doesn't make any sense to me, how did you dose nano and epi? , I got more lean mass from one nanodrol than 3 epistane.

 

[Chados]

I've heard it's quite harsh. Would TUDCA alone be a wise choice for support? (and Nolva for PCT) for a 6 week cycle.

Yes it would, epistane isn't very harsh. And let me go back to the comment where you say epistane I've heard is the best. It's a very studided product and many more have used it than nanodrol,superdrol etc. In my opinion it doesn't come close to these two when it comes to actual gains but epistane has it's place, the gains are very clean but In my opinion also very small compared to sd and nano.. with more gains there are mostly also a higher chance for sides

 

[AnabolicGuru]

That doesn't make any sense to me, how did you dose nano and epi? , I got more lean mass from one nanodrol than 3 epistane.

I gained 15lbs on 5 weeks of nanodrol eating 6 meals a day and I gained 18.5lbs on havoc eating probably 4-5 meals a day. Now, this is of course partially due to epistane being my first cycle, but I still believe that it’s better for overall lean mass in my experience. On epistane my bench went up 40lbs and on nanodrol it went up about 70lbs. I’m going to be running epistane again soon and this time I’ll be able to more accurately compare it to nanodrol since I’ve got 2 cycles under my belt now. I ran epi at 20/30/30/40mg and nanodrol I believe I ran about 0.75/1.00/1.25/1.50/1.50ml. It’s important that I mention the difference in 1.00ml and 1.50ml of nanodrol isn’t much, if anything at all; and I’d advise against going beyond 1.25ml as it would just be a waste of money, not to mention the added stress on your organs it could potentially cause due to it being a dimethyl :]

 

[Honey]

Yes it would, epistane isn't very harsh. And let me go back to the comment where you say epistane I've heard is the best. It's a very studided product and many more have used it than nanodrol,superdrol etc. In my opinion it doesn't come close to these two when it comes to actual gains but epistane has it's place, the gains are very clean but In my opinion also very small compared to sd and nano.. with more gains there are mostly also a higher chance for sides

No I meant for Nanodrol. Would TUDCA suffice as support on its own?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

No I meant for Nanodrol. Would TUDCA suffice as support on its own?

Tudca won’t cover all aspects of overall organ and cardiovascular health, so imo, no. But I do think that tudca would be beneficial in combination with an all-in-one cycle support when using nanodrol due to nanodrol being a dimethyl. Cel cycle assist, olympus labs ar1macare pro and olympus labs k1ngs guard are all great choices for all-in-one cycle supports.

 

[Honey]

Oh great, I have arm1care unopened so I'll just use that

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Oh great, I have arm1care unopened so I'll just use that

Like I said, if you’re using a dimethyl like nanodrol or even just running more than one 17a-methyl, then I think tudca is worth the extra money.

 

[Honey]

Like I said, if you’re using a dimethyl like nanodrol or even just running more than one 17a-methyl, then I think tudca is worth the extra money.

In addition to the arm1care?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

In addition to the arm1care?

Tudca is generally dosed 500-1000mg, if not more. So if you do run nanodrol, then I think spending the extra money to add 500mg tudca a day or so would be worth the investment

 

[Honey]

Tudca is generally dosed 500-1000mg, if not more. So if you do run nanodrol, then I think spending the extra money to add 500mg tudca a day or so would be worth the investment

Is there a TUDCA product you'd recommend? I quite like Olympus Labs as I've found them reliable.Or is the CEL the most favoured?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Is there a TUDCA product you'd recommend? I quite like Olympus Labs as I've found them reliable.Or is the CEL the most favoured?

They’re both great companies; I’d go with whichever is the better deal. You’re planning on taking nanodrol now I’m guessing?

 

[Honey]

Yes, the evidence I've seen for it online has been very promising. More so than Epistane.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Yes, the evidence I've seen for it online has been very promising. More so than Epistane.

You can’t go wrong with either in my opinion, they both treated me well.

 

[Honey]

You can’t go wrong with either in my opinion, they both treated me well.

Good to know. You've been very helpful ^_^

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Good to know. You've been very helpful ^_^

No problem man. I try to help with anything that I can :]

 

[Honey]

Btw, is Predator Nutrition the only place to buy it? It's deathly expensive

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Btw, is Predator Nutrition the only place to buy it? It's deathly expensive

A lot of the companies that make those products make them specifically for predator, and quite frankly, predator is the only place that I can truly say I trust; so I’d just buy it from them. You’d be surprised with how many places put out bunk/underdosed stuff.