maynehood171
Active member
You're right. Even though I said that above that post I still said it was banned in another hahaha.
Epistane toxicity
- Thread starter jpk
- Start date
You're right. Even though I said that above that post I still said it was banned in another hahaha.
maynehood171
Active member
and that is why it is hyped so much...because so many opinions and few blood works (that we have) show that it is relatively mild...and for clarification ReaperX my "standard" would be that levels are pretty close to normal levels/range...
maynehood171
Active member
Funny out of 152 posts to this thread...only 5 were made by the thread creator...haha
Chance1253
New member
I took SD for 6 weeks. 20mg the first day, 30mg the rest of the first week, and 40mg/day for the next 5 weeks. PCT was Nolva for 4 weeks. Had blood work done 1 month after PCT concluded. Blood work came back all normal. Good cholesterol was a little lower, bad cholesterol was a little higher, liver values were fine. More blood work taken about a year after that showed a further increase in good cholesterol and decrease in bad cholesterol, but were all better than my pre-SD bloodwork.
I think it's dangerous stuff, and you need to be careful with it, but for the normal healthy person it's not a huge deal as long as you're cognizant of what you're doing.
Epi blood work came back normal right after cycle 2 days into PCT. Cycle was 12 weeks pulsed 3x/week starting at 40mg and ended at 80.
I think it's dangerous stuff, and you need to be careful with it, but for the normal healthy person it's not a huge deal as long as you're cognizant of what you're doing.
Epi blood work came back normal right after cycle 2 days into PCT. Cycle was 12 weeks pulsed 3x/week starting at 40mg and ended at 80.
maynehood171
Active member
Wow glad to hear this! Agree with the normal healthy individual comment too. How did you manage to get that many blood works done...different doctors? I'm thinking up an excuse in case I need a reason haha. I wouldn't see why doctors won't just DO IT no matter what the reason may be...
MacTech
Member
This is what amazes me. Why a doctor's script is needed to draw blood. I am self-insured and tried to get a blood test done locally on my own accord and no way. I do realize there are other methods, but come on, they should offer this at Walmart pharmacy to anyone requesting it.
Before you know it, they will require a script to take a BP reading.
RBKing
Member
I'll see your Havoc and raise you 4 bottles of Epidrol!
Seriously, when I can gain 10 pounds everytime I pulse Epi, why would I take something else (and beleive me, I've done
ALL the good ones) that's enough for me these days. ReapX
has a point, none of use who are not professionals should be
using AASs, but they're so damn GOOOOOD and effective.
As long as you take steps to minimize the risks you should be OK.
maynehood171
Active member
I do agree with you 100%. I was thinking of just going in and simply saying "I simply want to know what my values are". Aren't there companies that you can send your blood to to get your values read??? Sounds kind of ghetto but if it came down to it and that what it takes...then so be it...
I do have to admit, my mom used to work for the doctor I have now and she is pretty good about getting stuff done...so I'm not overly worried I can't get it done...
Chance1253
New member
I am 100% honest and open with my doctor about what I take, what my goals are, what I will do and what I will not do. In return, he doesn't give me too much crap and makes sure that I stay somewhat healthy. I am very lucky.
maynehood171
Active member
Glad to hear your doctor will do this for you especially after being open...and it's not like you are asking for much...and plus he's still getting paid!
aspire210
Registered User
supersize me the movie where a guy at mcdonalds 3x a day for 30 days? His pre-versuses post blood work was worse than any SD blood work I have ever seen. I can see how valuable your time is, considering your post count, sorry to have wasted it.
neoborn
Well-known member
Just to add some points:
I would say that the spectrum for me would be
So for instance on a scale of 1 - 10, 1 being a perfectly healthy liver and 10 being Liver failure is how I would rate it.
To be honest it wouldn't take much to get this into the news you just have to get a few people together, I would think around ten would be ample, then just combine the words 'Anabolic' and 'Steroid/s' together in the same sentence....bing bang boom you're in business with your media machine.
I would say that the spectrum for me would be
- Perfect liver values or Optimal for Age / Sex
- A seriously Stressed / Jaundiced / Damaged / Almost or Non functioning liver
So for instance on a scale of 1 - 10, 1 being a perfectly healthy liver and 10 being Liver failure is how I would rate it.
To be honest it wouldn't take much to get this into the news you just have to get a few people together, I would think around ten would be ample, then just combine the words 'Anabolic' and 'Steroid/s' together in the same sentence....bing bang boom you're in business with your media machine.
maynehood171
Active member
T-Bone
Banned
I don't have a personal vendetta to save the world from Superdrol. People asked and I gave them the information they wanted. I knew exactly what Superdol was. I've been on this board for years, and remember Designer Supplements Presale on the product. I did about 8 months of reasearch and planing before the cycle. Also I had a well known moderator from this board help me plan out my cycle. I had constant communication with him via email and private messages. I pre-loaded support supplements for Blood Pressure, Lipids and Liver Protection. Also I had my post cycle threapy ready and planed before I even started on the cycle. Then again all of this is "water under the bridge" as they say. Someone happend to bring it up and I was nice enough to give them answers. I didn't even bring it up, I didn't start this thread and it didn't even start out pertaining to my Superdrol experience...So I really don't understand how you could think I have some sort of personal vendetta against someone or something!.
poopypants
Banned
This is rediculous guys.
Its a pointless argument. Reaper your arguing points just for the sake of arguing, you said it yourself "for sh!ts and giggles"
theres a phrase for this and its "playing devils advocate"
Your arguments are half thought at best and your picking on the least important points of the topic at hand.
Mild? what is mild? come on now. Pharmacutical companies use terms MUCH more vague then this rambling off a list of side effects that range with associated descriptions from acute to mild. Mild is mild son, bottom line. If you want an exact set of value points thats associated with the description then go ask a pharmacist, endocrinologist or one of the companies advertising their product as having mild diuretic effects or acute joint pain and the like..... "Exactly how many ounces of water loss is a mild diruetic???" see how stupid that sounds???
Now please stop your pointless argument for the sake of arguing. If you like dont use the term mild. Lets just say that existing blood has come back with either liver values uneffected altogether, totally re-established withing a couple weeks or not the same as start but within normal healthy ranges. You can consider that MILD.
now please end this useless thread.
Its a pointless argument. Reaper your arguing points just for the sake of arguing, you said it yourself "for sh!ts and giggles"
theres a phrase for this and its "playing devils advocate"
Your arguments are half thought at best and your picking on the least important points of the topic at hand.
Mild? what is mild? come on now. Pharmacutical companies use terms MUCH more vague then this rambling off a list of side effects that range with associated descriptions from acute to mild. Mild is mild son, bottom line. If you want an exact set of value points thats associated with the description then go ask a pharmacist, endocrinologist or one of the companies advertising their product as having mild diuretic effects or acute joint pain and the like..... "Exactly how many ounces of water loss is a mild diruetic???" see how stupid that sounds???
Now please stop your pointless argument for the sake of arguing. If you like dont use the term mild. Lets just say that existing blood has come back with either liver values uneffected altogether, totally re-established withing a couple weeks or not the same as start but within normal healthy ranges. You can consider that MILD.
now please end this useless thread.
Mass_69
Well-known member
Unless someone can post some meaningful bloodwork or some relavant evidence, I agree.
poopypants
Banned
well Ive already said I have post PCT blood work showing re-established values but noone seems interested in that... I will post some post cycle (before pct) values come this late summer when I run Epi again for everyone but until then I dunno who exactly has any.
As neo said though, has anyone any blood to point to the contrary? Im gonna search IBEforums real quick.... Neo didnt Upandcoming take 60-90 mg for a while and get blood done??? Im gonna check, pretty sure he did.
ReaperX
Well-known member
1. Some studies in Japan with a non-methylated version of Epistane. As we know, simple changes in chemical composition can greatly change a substance.
So with that, unmethylated Epistane in Japan has been used safety before in low doses.
2. There are some individuals who have gotten bloodwork done that apparently did not have their markers change that drastically. Each individual is different however.
3. I highly doubt there are any pharmacology reports done on methylated epistane at the doses currently being used.
This is a new substance being used in the US with doses not ever recorded before.
To answer your question: No, there is no guarantee that your liver will be 100% fine. Chances are it should be ok, but anything is possible, good or bad.
Use at your own risk.
There see ? That wasn't that hard.
ReaperX
Well-known member
Its not our product, there's nothing for the general public to defend. It is the company burden of proof to show that it is safe otherwise. Why would the buyers need to convince the sellers ? I've never, ever heard of that. Ever.
The other alternative is not to take it and be 100% safe.
No one is saying Epistane is harmful. People are saying where's the proof that it isn't ?
There's a big difference.
poopypants
Banned
Where did anyone say it was the burden of the consumer?
Sure totally ignore any and all user feedback and the word of the company producing it. But yes it is the ONLY way to be 100% safe.
the proof has been presented to you multiple times, myself included have offered proof that normal liver values are attainable within 4 weeks of cessation (probably MUCH sooner) and that more then enough to show that harm has not been caused.
In your some what logical questions you just presented now and the question (what is MILD, demanding that WE set the standard and explain it to you when it should be generally understood) you have been arguing pointlessly.
Thanks for playing the devils advocate but OVERWHELMING user feedback, lack of cases of sides or horror stories like T-bones and a few instances of folks providing blood to you after PCT showing a healthy physiology after taking Epistane should be more then enough to quell any fears that one may have before regarding the toxicity of Epistane.
This does not go with out saying blood work for your liver should always be obtained (and doesnt require 100's of dollars, most any health plan will give you liver values and lipids for a small co-payment... some will even give you your test) before hand if one is truely worried and precautions taken to help prevent any liver toxicity build up along with a complete PCT. Also ones own personal history of health and recreational use should be taken into account before hand and the user should realize taking a methylated compound when already in a weakened or unhealthy state is ill-advised with Epistane as it would be with ANY methylated steroidal compound.
Given these facts and general rules of thumb for this type of compound a HEALTHY and infromed individual can take Epistane at recommended doses and experience a slight alteration of liver values at most and expect that with proper supplementation that those values can be re-established within a short period of time.
Now please tell me the questions of the OP have not been answered and we are going to gain any more benifit from this thread continuing on further?
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
I've run Epi solo twice. Once with bloodwork a year ago 3 wks post cycle. No I am not attaching the doc. bc I can't find it (looked).
My lipids and total liver values were in the normal range, not only on the test results, but the doc even commented that I was very healthy all the way around.
If ya don't want to believe someone who has never lied on this forum about anything....don't. But I came out fine once and probably twice too, just don't have the bloodwork to prove.
My lipids and total liver values were in the normal range, not only on the test results, but the doc even commented that I was very healthy all the way around.
If ya don't want to believe someone who has never lied on this forum about anything....don't. But I came out fine once and probably twice too, just don't have the bloodwork to prove.
maynehood171
Active member
No I believe...I'll be getting my blood work done in the summer for a SD pulse...3 on / 4 off protocol...can't wait for the results!!!
SIDUDE
New member
Holy crap I can't believe all the noise this thread is generating...I went to see my doctor last night, I have a script for blood work, I am going to wait mid cycle, at full dose and I am going to have my blood drawn.
Because I know what my blood work typically looks like I will be able to gauge the toxicity, I will post the results.
LakeMountD
Doctor Science
Okay, as I have stated 100 times now. There is quite a bit of research conducted on the 17a-ether form of this compound. This would be VERY similar to the methylated form in its action and effect on the liver. Any 17a-alkylated compound is going to pass through the liver where the liver will attempt to break it down. I am not saying I have exact numbers on methylated-thiodrol here, I am stating that in comparison of what other compounds are currently out there, this is about as safe as they come. It is all about relativity. You can't say something is traveling fast unless you give give an object for which it can relate to. If you were traveling at 100mph next to a car traveling 100mph you wouldn't think they were traveling fast, they would appear to be stationary. Same thing with this, you can't say something is harmful or not harmful, you can merely state its effects RELATIVE to something else. Sorry for the quick lesson on Einstein's relativity here but damn that is the only way I could explain it.
Should we take alcohol off the market as well? Head back to the prohibition period? Just because something is "harmful" doesn't mean it can't be taken safely.
maynehood171
Active member
Well put though LakeMount!!
ReaperX
Well-known member
I agree. Thanks for re-iterating my point earlier.
My primary question I was bringing up was 'What does mild mean ?'
People were saying Epi was mild. Neo was saying Epi was mild. Mild relative to what ? M1T ?
My question (all along prior) was what standard is mild being held to ? Your previous statement sums up exactly what I was trying to get to.
Mild relative to ? You are correct when saying that there needs to be a relativity to something.
I'm not anti-epi, or saying that it is harmful. I'm not necessarly arguing either since I'm not trying to 'prove' that it is harmful.
T-Bone
Banned
I didn't just have elevated liver enzymes. My liver basically shut down, also my kidneys were not working correctly. Really though, when I was in the hospital I couldn't think about or understand much. I hadn't slept in two months from constant itching. The doctors told me I was lucky to be alive. This happend almost 3 years ago now though. The thread here has gotten really out of hand.
MacTech
Member
Sorry to hear about that.
I cannot understand how my comments are out of hand, but whatever.
T-Bone
Banned
No, no your comments weren't out of at all. I meant the thread as whole. A lot of guys in here agree this thread has us all talking in circles. I'm really Sorry to hear about your wife. Didn't mean to be dis-respectful to you at all.
maynehood171
Active member
I concur
Yeah I feel bad as all hell! I was on wellbutrin for 4 months, I knew seizure was eminent. Just thinking it could of happened to me or anyone else who takes it or has taken it...
MacTech
Member
No problem. I am easy to get along with. That was 6 yrs ago that she passed.
But if I had first hand evidence back then that Wellbutrin was possibly a danger to her, she might have made another choice.
It's good you put your opinions and experience out there and as I said, let others make their own decision.
Let others make their own opinions and experiences known as well.
As another anecdote, my Dad can't take penicillin shots, it almost did him in as a teenager. In another situation, it may have saved someone's life.
aspire210
Registered User
I noticed you're taking AMP from your log. Seen blood work on it? Got any proof that its not harmful? The main active is just as much a drug as epi is. Hypocrisy?
T-Bone
Banned
He just helped me out through pm's throughout the whole cycle, I laid out the plan for the cycle and ran it by him. He was/is a moderator on here and a few other boards that I know of.
maynehood171
Active member
I'll just get my own blood work done to add to the line of evidence this summer...can't wait
But of course people will still argue so not that big of a deal...
ReaperX
Well-known member
:yawn:
Actually, I didn't put this in my log, but my penis turned into a vagina. Would you consider that harmful ? I'm still hung on the fence about it.
aspire210
Registered User
upside: free drinks, all the sex you can want
downside: might get pregnant
everything comes at a cost my friend.
ReaperX
Well-known member
neoborn
Well-known member
So given my previous example with 1 being perfect values and 10 being liver failure I would say for me Epistane is a 2 or 3 maximum. If you wanted the product compared to orals then 1 being something like ?Halodrol? and 10 being M1T or SD, again Epistane would still be a 2 or 3 maximum
But with that said let's be honest and look at other factors. Everything is going to be relative as perhaps my genetics have allowed me to develop amazing heart cells or resistance to cholesterol issues but when it comes to BP or liver values I only have to stare at a non alcoholic beer for them to go down the sh!tter.
So what's good for me is not good for you and what is 'mild' for me is not mild for you.
So with that said as per any chemical you put into your body you should thoroughly research it, take the necessary precautions, support supps and get thorough bloodwork panel / hormone panels done before starting:drunk:
:djparty:Can ahh get an amen?:djparty:
jpk
Member
I think of all the crap we've put in our systems in the name of fun and games, especially alcohol.
I have never felt so safe and healthy as I have recently during my Epistane pulse. I'm filling up a drawer in the freezer with this stuf cause it works so well on me.
I know I asked for scientific evidence, but that was just to shake the trees and see what fell out. I never had scientific evidence that Budweiser was 100% healthy before drowning in the stuff in my youth either.
You'll pry my last bottle of Epistane out of my cold, dead hand. The stuff has been a key part of my mid-life crisis control (I'm 47). i haven't heard anything on this thread or anywhere else on this forum that would change my mind at this point. Gimme the slow, steady, healthy gains of an Epistane pulse cycle 2 or 3 times a year and I'm my old self again.
I want to thank everyone who responded to this thread. I respect your input tremendously.
Safe cycling amigos...
I have never felt so safe and healthy as I have recently during my Epistane pulse. I'm filling up a drawer in the freezer with this stuf cause it works so well on me.
I know I asked for scientific evidence, but that was just to shake the trees and see what fell out. I never had scientific evidence that Budweiser was 100% healthy before drowning in the stuff in my youth either.
You'll pry my last bottle of Epistane out of my cold, dead hand. The stuff has been a key part of my mid-life crisis control (I'm 47). i haven't heard anything on this thread or anywhere else on this forum that would change my mind at this point. Gimme the slow, steady, healthy gains of an Epistane pulse cycle 2 or 3 times a year and I'm my old self again.
I want to thank everyone who responded to this thread. I respect your input tremendously.
Safe cycling amigos...
maynehood171
Active member
if you think its toxic send it to me and ill dispose of it properlyfree of charge to you, you guys only pay one way shipping
:rofl:
pantera101
Banned
pantera101
Banned
Yeah I've heard that too.But I was specificaly told not to freeze epithio when talking about freezing designers.Maybe someone can chime in and say what exactly happens and report any studies etc....I believe all steroids are destroyed at a certain heat.
ReaperX
Well-known member
yeah I put bulk powders in the fridge. The rest of the stuff I just keep out of direct sunlight.
The best way to preserve hormonal substances is to vaccum seal it, then put it in the bottom of your dark closet. The problem with freezing is, even if it dosen't destroy the substance (I don't know for certain if cold temperatures do), you lower the atmospheric temperature inside the bottle despite it being sealed.
Then later on you pull it out of the freezer, open it, take it, then probably toss it on the shelf. Well, once that bottle starts sitting in room temperature the bottle will probably develop moisture inside due to the temperature change and degrade some of the substance inside.
So once it is in the fridge/freezer, it needs to stay in there till its gone.
The best way to preserve hormonal substances is to vaccum seal it, then put it in the bottom of your dark closet. The problem with freezing is, even if it dosen't destroy the substance (I don't know for certain if cold temperatures do), you lower the atmospheric temperature inside the bottle despite it being sealed.
Then later on you pull it out of the freezer, open it, take it, then probably toss it on the shelf. Well, once that bottle starts sitting in room temperature the bottle will probably develop moisture inside due to the temperature change and degrade some of the substance inside.
So once it is in the fridge/freezer, it needs to stay in there till its gone.