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Epistane and Insane Bicycling Training

Pseudonymous

Pseudonymous

New member
Is there any reason not to use Epistane while going through an intense "crash program" of bicycling training with the intention of completing a two day, 80-100 mile charity bike ride at the end of six weeks? :think:

The training program relies 100% on interval training, but the protocols and length of intervals are much longer than what most bodybuilders would dream of - I'm talking up to an hour and 15 minutes every other day by the end of week three, then switching to daily training that fluctuates between 45 minutes (recovery day) and 2 1/2 - 3 hours per day. The daily training is only for the final two weeks and is obviously lower intensity. (Intensity of intervals is measured by specific heart rate % at preset rotation ranges per minute.) I know an Epistane Cycle is typically done for 4 weeks, and since the 6-week program becomes more demanding towards the end, I think it makes sense to use Epistane for the final four weeks, unless of course lethargy is "an unadvertised side effect".

I will be weight training every other day for the first four weeks of this bicycling program and will drop squats, leg extensions, and bent rows from my routine during the last two weeks + lift weights once every three days in order to avoid injuries and minimize muscle loss. Yes, I will probably try Cissus, too. Other than Cissus, I already have my very cautiously designed stack of support supps and Torem-based PCT 100% ready to roll. Protein will be Biotest MRP's and Designer Whey. Low Fat Diet has been phased in. I'm still waffling on daily caloric intake but will decide on that quickly.

Originally, my goal of using Epistane and Hotrox + high frequency training was physique transformation and I was going to reward myself with a new bike and a new PS3, but now I think that training specifically for this bike ride is a more concrete goal that will accomplish the same thing and give me an excuse to buy that new bike (and PS3, for down time) , NOW. The whacked training protocols are provided c/o Chris Carmichel (Lance Armstrongs coach) and Bicycling Magazine, but they fail to mention any weight training, so I am using a monday-wednesday-friday routine based on compound movements only and 2 minutes of rest between sets.

Any suggestions? I'm going through with the training, but I'm just undecided on whether I should hold off on the Epistane, and interested on finding out where it should fall into my training calendar - beginning or end? Can I stretch it to 6 weeks by using lower doses or by pulsing?

Will post more details as needed. Thanks in advance for any/all advice.:head:
 
No, dude, no. You're doing it wrong.

If you've never ridden before, 100 is a lot, but in the scheme of things its very do-able, especially if you're in good shape to begin with.

Are you wanting to take Epistane for anti-catabolic purposes or to help you with the riding? Either way, I don't think it's the right use of the product. Save it for after the ride to bulk up.

The supplements that will help you most directly are Citrulline and cordyceps. Take both and you'll see hugely improved endurance. Take the CM of your choice and I recommend Cordygen5, contact the company for a discount.

The Cissus is a good idea, as weird tendonitis issues can come up from the sudden increase in repetitious motion.

Outside that all you need to keep muscle and energy up are good carbs and protein, particularly protein, be sure to get about 1gr/lb of starting or desired bodyweight. DO NOT neglect carbs, as that will reduce your performance and cause catabolism.

I did the AIDS ride on a tandem with my wife in 2001, without training specifically for it at all.. 600+ miles in 6 days. I didn't lose muscle at all (I ate 2-3 MetRX Big 100 bars a day). So I know where you're at. :)
 
Thanks, Poison -
I pretty much cam to that conclusion myself, but I was going for the anti-catabolic effect, hoping it would let me keep up the increase in both volume and intensity without losing mass. Now I'm actually thinking about using Anabolic Xtremes "Retain", and doing an Epistane cycle immediately after this 6 week prgram. I'll have to edit and re-post this question on the A.X. part of the forum tonight. I really like the training program, and I think that rest and recovery + injury prevention should be my priorities. Citruline and Cordyceps - I'll look into that -- any info on brands/manufacturers? I've started paying more attention to the supplement ads in bicycling magazine, but supplementing for endurance is 100% new to me and I don't know what to believe.
 
Don't pay attention to bicycling mag ads. You can do far better here, if you tweak it toward your purpose.

I don't want to go source posting, or whatever, but google turns up the manufacturer of Cordygen5, Millennium Sport. Email them for a whopping discount code, and mention me (Nate). PM Tuberman about his results with Cordyceps and cycling. :) It's simply GREAT stuff, and reasonably cheap.

As far as citrulline, Body Octane is great, tasty, yet expensive. Bulk does the job just fine, or if you want pills, SAN Ox is great.

NOW Rhodiola rosea is cheap at nutraplanet, $7, and it's effective for endurance.

I HIGHLY recommend Cytosport Revenge Pro. it's the best sports drink out there. I was a very serious mt bikier for years, and this stuff alone would increase endurance a TON. I'm talking a (percieved) 20-30%. Throw 3gr bulk citrulline in there, you'll feel ready for the Olympics.

Retain could definately help. Another good choice which is overlooked here on AM is SAN Blaze. Retain hurt my joints, Blaze didn't, and Blaze seemed almost anabolic (or VERY anti-catabolic).

I'm not sure how into biking you are or want to be, but total mass, particularly upper body mass, is not your friend. You might as well haul around a 30lb dumbell for nothing. Just keep it in mind.

Oh, creatine always helps: it's tough to ride hard and have juice left for weights. It'll help keep the mass on, it that's your goal.
 
All good recommendations.

No, I would not use Epi for this style of training. Anything that alters your lipid values negatively should never be used in endurance training. The pumps would also likely be problematic.
 
Will read up on all of this in the a.m., but just wanted to note that I'm not worried about having "too much" upper body mass. I'm not a competitive cyclist, I intend to do a few charity rides every year and get back into mountain biking on a regular basis. I might also try my hand at touring on vacation, but again, I'm not competitive. I'm interested in striking an even balance between endurance, size, strength and speed. :fool2:

poison said:
Don't pay attention to bicycling mag ads. You can do far better here, if you tweak it toward your purpose.

I don't want to go source posting, or whatever, but google turns up the manufacturer of Cordygen5, Millennium Sport. Email them for a whopping discount code, and mention me (Nate). PM Tuberman about his results with Cordyceps and cycling. :) It's simply GREAT stuff, and reasonably cheap.

As far as citrulline, Body Octane is great, tasty, yet expensive. Bulk does the job just fine, or if you want pills, SAN Ox is great.

NOW Rhodiola rosea is cheap at nutraplanet, $7, and it's effective for endurance.

I HIGHLY recommend Cytosport Revenge Pro. it's the best sports drink out there. I was a very serious mt bikier for years, and this stuff alone would increase endurance a TON. I'm talking a (percieved) 20-30%. Throw 3gr bulk citrulline in there, you'll feel ready for the Olympics.

Retain could definately help. Another good choice which is overlooked here on AM is SAN Blaze. Retain hurt my joints, Blaze didn't, and Blaze seemed almost anabolic (or VERY anti-catabolic).

I'm not sure how into biking you are or want to be, but total mass, particularly upper body mass, is not your friend. You might as well haul around a 30lb dumbell for nothing. Just keep it in mind.

Oh, creatine always helps: it's tough to ride hard and have juice left for weights. It'll help keep the mass on, it that's your goal.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the advice. I think I'm now officially a supplement addict -- over $300 spent in two weeks...

Just ordered:
Cissus
Citrulline Malate Powder
Cordyceps
Creatine Ethyl Ester HCl
Revenge PRO

I'm recovering from a nasty Passover meal (gas from hell), so I think I'll be skipping the workout this morning.
Horse Radish kills.
 
bioman said:
All good recommendations.

No, I would not use Epi for this style of training. Anything that alters your lipid values negatively should never be used in endurance training. The pumps would also likely be problematic.
Click to expand...

I'm holding off on the Epi for the moment, but it's sitting on my fireplace mantle, next to my weight bench, calling to me... (see photo)

Please talk to me about the pumps - I've seen "back pumps" mentioned as an Epistane side effect, but I'm not sure what it is and since I'm centering my program around deadlifts and use them as my primary physical therapy for old back injuries, I probably need to know this. Strict deadlift form and stretching REALLY helps me with my chronic back pain. And will plant sterols help control my lipid values? I understand that plant sterols are believed to only help with diet induced lipid changes.
 

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Pseudonymous said:
Thanks for the advice. I think I'm now officially a supplement addict -- over $300 spent in two weeks...

Just ordered:
Cissus
Citrulline Malate Powder
Cordyceps
Creatine Ethyl Ester HCl
Revenge PRO

I'm recovering from a nasty Passover meal (gas from hell), so I think I'll be skipping the workout this morning.
Horse Radish kills.
Click to expand...

Nice!

Which Cissus and cordyceps did you order?

Citrulline is wicked sour stuff, but the Revenge Pro will mask it nicely. CEE is nasty too, but Crystal Light masks it.


Chag Sameach! Happy Passover! :D
 
poison said:
Nice!

Which Cissus and cordyceps did you order?

Citrulline is wicked sour stuff, but the Revenge Pro will mask it nicely. CEE is nasty too, but Crystal Light masks it.


Chag Sameach! Happy Passover! :D
Click to expand...

I ordered Cissus Quadrangularis by 1fast400 and MRM Cordyceps - both... 120 capsules. Basically, about a 1 month supply of everything.

An about the creatine -- I've only used the monohydrate form in the past and wanted to try something different - can it be mixed/dosed with the Revenge Pro and Citruline? Pre or Post workout? I've had good results in the past without loading Creatine (5g per day, it just takes longer to notice gains) -- do I NEED to load the CEE?
 
No, no need to load CEE.

As far as cissus, most people seem to agree that bulk cissus and USPLabs or Primaforce are not equal. Bulk cissus sucks. Use a higher dose, finish it off, and try USPLabs.

I'll PM you about cordyceps in a bit.
 
Basically, I am of the opinion that doing heavy cardio while your lipid values are in the toilet is not necessarily a good thing for your cardiovascular system. There are many who claim that cardio is exactly what you need in order to correct this imbalance but I don't think this applies when you are taking a methyl because the methyl represents a toxic insult to your liver and thus cholesterol values get skewed. Excercise is not going to correct this IMO, only cessation of the methyl will.

I am also leary of putting stress on the cardio system while HDL levels are low. Seems counterproductive to me. I also am concerned about the very real possibility of excacerbating hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Given the extreme high adrogenic/anabolic ratioes of these orals, it seems likely that HCM will occur even without putting lots of stress on the heart. The high cardio death rates of pro wrestlers sticks out in my mind as a possible anecdotal example of this.

In any case, this would be better discussed in it's own thread so that maybe people with greater knowledge in these matters than I can discuss these possibilities.
 
I don't know much about HCM but I don't think that acute skewing of lipid values over a short period of time is much of a danger to your immediate health, so long as you're in good general health to begin with, but then again I don't know exactly how strongly these supps are effecting lipids, and, obviously, if you already have chronic or cv issues then its probably safe to assume that any additional cv stress from using methylated candy might be your ticket to angioplasty or an instant cva. Not cool. I'm looking forward to building up my endurance and VO2 max before using epistane, because i think it would be interesting to try high-volume training and daily (light) cardio while using Epistane.
 
I think it's all kind of a big unknown, but anecdotally there seems to be an awful lot of pro-wrestlers and other gear users who die from heart complications. It has always made me wonder what the exact reasons are for that.

You'll want to use 5-10 grams of taurine a day when on the epi to keep the pumps in check.
 
bioman said:
I think it's all kind of a big unknown, but anecdotally there seems to be an awful lot of pro-wrestlers and other gear users who die from heart complications. It has always made me wonder what the exact reasons are for that.

You'll want to use 5-10 grams of taurine a day when on the epi to keep the pumps in check.
Click to expand...

What are these "back pumps" I've seen mentioned but not described all over the forum?:think:
 
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