Epistane, 4-AD Keto Lean Bulk Log

[fantaaoorange]

Long time lurker on this forum but first actual post. I’ll be logging a 6 week cycle of Epi and 4-Andro starting Easter Sunday (in about 11 days).

Current stats:
M Age 31 / 5’7” 155 lbs / ~11% bf
Lifting for about 8 years on and off. Recently started back up after taking a break for a few months after injury. Have done two Ostarine cycles and two 1-AD/Epiandro cycles with just mild results. Finishing up an 8 week cut at 1700cal (2500cal is my maintenance).

Cycle goals:
Recomp – add on lean mass while getting to 8-9% bf

Diet:
This is where I feel like my cycle will be different from most others. I’ve been on a standard ketogenic diet for the past 8 weeks (less than 30g carbs) and love the way it makes me feel once I became fat adapted. I’ll maintain this diet the whole cycle but will be more lax with my carbs (maybe 2-3 carbs meals per week). I’ll up my cals to 2000 cals week 1, 2500 cals (maintenance) week 2, then lean bulk at 3000 starting week 3 for the rest of the cycle.

Cycle:
Epistane (RPN Havoc): 30/30/30/40/40/40
4-andro (Andro the Giant): 330/330/330/440/440/440

(will also be finishing up an Ephedrine/Caffeine stack weeks 1-2)

Cycle Support:
CEL Cycle Assist, Tudca 750mg, Hawthorn Berry preload 10 days before

PCT:
Nolva 20/20/10/10
Tudca 500/500/0/0
Reduce XT 0/0/3/3 (will stop after 2 weeks)
Sup3r-PCT
Aromasin on hand (will only use if I see gyno signs)

After my 4 weeks of PCT are over, I’ll take a week completely off all supplements while on a vacation then will bridge into a natty cycle:

After PCT:
M-Test or Alphamax – 4 weeks
X-Gels – 4 weeks
Reduce XT – last 2 weeks

I feel like I’ve done my fair share of research as this will be my first methylated PH so I want to be as side-free as possible. Will be posting my pre-cycle bloodwork as well later when I get them done this week.

My main 2 questions were 1) Should I keep my 4-AD dosage at 330 all cycle instead to minimize sides and 2) Should I take the aromasin Week 3 of PCT even if I don’t see any gyno as a precaution?

 

[LeanEngineer]

In on this!

 

[Mzakif]

In

 

[TheBigBrodie]

100% in

 

[jrock645]

I always add an AI week 3 of pct just to try and maximize test levels, and prevent estro rebound.

 

[fantaaoorange]

Just got my labs back for total test and estrogen. Excited to start this in 5 days. All supplements for the cycle and PCT are already in except for the Epi which should be coming in Thursday.

 

[fantaaoorange]

DAY 1


Alright guys here we go.

Dosage:
7am - Epi 10 / 4ad 110
12pm - 4ad 110
4pm - Epi 10 / 4ad 110
* Workout 5-6pm *
7pm - Epi 10

^ I’ll be following this dosage for the first 2-3 weeks and bump up the Epi to 20mg pre workout after that.

Training:
I’ll be training 6x per week when I can doing a modified version of PHAT which is basically P/P/L twice a week where you alternate between powerlifting and hypertrophy days. For the hypertrophy days, I’ll be copying the workouts from the John Meadows Gamma Bomb program for the Chest, Back, and Legs days (won’t have a dedicated arm day). The powerlifting days will be mostly focused around 5x5 and 4x6 sets of the main lifts.

Leg Day
(I’ll only be logging my sets for my bench, squat, deadlifts on powerlifting days to track progress)
- Squat 205x5, 225x5, 225x5, 225x5, 235x3

Diet:
1900 cals / 43g net carbs / 180g protein
- protein will remain around 160-180g all cycle so I won’t bother logging it

—
So it’s only Day 1 nothing much to log right now. Squats are my weakest lift as they significantly go down when I cut. Hoping these numbers go up drastically once I ramp up the calories in the next 2 weeks.

 

[fantaaoorange]

I forgot to include:

Weight:
151.6 / 10% bf

 

[fantaaoorange]

Day 2:

Diet:
2400 cal / 40g c
151 lbs

Training:
Pull hypertrophy day

Day 3:

Diet:
1600 cal / 50g c
152.8 lbs

Training:
Push Power
Bench 195x5, 205x5, 205x5, 205x5, 210x4

—
So far so good. Haven’t felt anything yet but I’ve been feeling great from the slight increase in calories. Gonna use these initial 1.5 weeks before the Epi kicks in to lose the last bit of body fat. No sides at all to report.

 

[fantaaoorange]

Day 4:

Diet:
1900 cal / 30g c
152.6 lbs

Training:
Legs Hypertrophy

-
Great day at the gym with this new hypertrophy program I’m running. No noticeable effects from the Epi yet but I’ve been crushing it just knowing that I’m on something.

Rest day tomorrow.

 

[fantaaoorange]

Day 5:

Diet:
1700 cal / 40g c
153.4 lbs

Rest

Day 6:

Diet:
1900 cal / 30g c
154.2 lbs

Training:
Pull Power
Deadlifts 315x5, 345x4, 345x4

--
Okay now this is definitely starting to kick in. It's not yet the "on" feeling, but it's slowly starting to creep up. Overall my mood has been great, and all I want to do during the day is hit the gym.

Weight has been slowly going up even while around a 500 cal deficit. Muscles are looking and feeling slightly fuller. Strength has gone up slightly - it's more apparent towards the end of my workouts where I can add more weight to my later sets and accessory work.

No other sides.

 

[fantaaoorange]

Day 7:

Diet:
1800 cal / 20g c
153.8 lbs

Training:
Push hypertrophy

Day 8 - Week 2:

Diet:
1900 cal / 20g c
154.2 lbs (+2.6 lbs since start)

Training:
Legs Power
Squats 205x6, 225x6, 235x6, 245x6
(Week 1 Squats 205x5, 225x5, 225x5, 225x5, 235x3)

--
Wow the last 2 days have been great. Like I stated in my previous post, the epi is slowly and slowly starting to kick in. Just have way more energy once I start my first couple sets. The bar on today's squats just felt lighter than it usually does.

No negative sides to report except I find myself more irritable. I get a little more easily annoyed at a few things, and I'm already a super chill person to begin with. But it's no where to the point where I'll actually say anything about it. Libido is about the same. Been getting about 7 hours of sleep every night which is always interrupted in the middle of the night when I have to pee but I'm finding myself falling back asleep way easier than pre cycle. Blood pressure looks fine at 108/76.

My muscles are still getting more full and I'm overall getting leaner. Weight is fluctuating upwards even on a calorie deficit. I think i'll stay around this deficit for one more week since I'm loving the strength gains alongside the loss of what seems like body fat.

 

[fantaaoorange]

Day 9 - Week 2:

Diet:
1950 cal / 35g c
154.2 lbs

Training:
Pull hypertrophy

Day 10 - Week 2:

Diet:
2000 cal / 25g c
153.4 lbs

Training:
Push Power
Bench 215x5, 205x6, 185x7, 145x10
(Week 1 Bench 195x5, 205x5, 205x5, 205x5, 210x4)
- Switching my rep schemes to reverse pyramid to change it up

--
Muscles really getting full. It looks like the day after a big carb up minus the bloat.

Yesterday was the first bad side I experienced as I felt a little bit of lethargy in the morning. Went away by the afternoon but today I felt amazing. Woke up with great mental clarity.

I think the next few days should be when the Epi starts to hit me full on so really stoked for that. Also finished up the last of my EC stack so I’ll be cutting down on the caffeine after today.

 

[fantaaoorange]

Day 11 - Week 2:

Diet:
4000 cal / 60g c / 300g p
155 lbs

Training:
Legs hypertrophy

—
So I increased my calories yesterday to 4K (still stayed low carbs) with more than half the calories coming post workout. Woke up today looking like how I looked pre cycle after a workout - pumped as hell.

Definitely loving this so far from an aesthetic standpoint. Muscles continue to look fuller and more cut. Sadly today is a rest day but can’t wait til tomorrow to test out my strength on deadlifts.

 

[fantaaoorange]

Day 12 - Week 2:

Diet:
1700 cal / 15g c
157.8 lbs

Rest Day

 

[manifesto]

In a little late.

 

[fantaaoorange]

Day 13 - Week 2:

* Increased Epi dose to 40mg for the remainder of the cycle

Diet:
3200 cal / 50g c
159.8 lbs

Training:
Pull Power
Deadlifts: 385x2, 345x4, 295x4
(Week 1 Deadlifts: 315x5, 345x4, 345x4)

Day 14 - Week 2:

Diet:
2200 cal / 25g c
157.8 lbs

Training:
Push Hypertrophy

Day 15 - Week 3:

Diet:
4000 cal / 350g c
157.4 lbs

Had a big carb up / cheat day today so I could eat all the tacos I want. First carb up in 8 weeks since starting keto so my body should respond great. Will also be using HPScience Glycoshield with all my meals as well.

Training:
Legs Power
Squats: 265x4, 245x6, 225x6, 205x8
(Week 1 Squats: 205x5, 225x5, 225x5, 225x5, 235x3)

 

[fantaaoorange]

Recap after 2 weeks:

Well I’ve gotta say Day 14 is when everything finally started to fully kick! Increased my dosage to 40mg on Day 13 and the next day I finally had that “on” feeling.

All my lifts are going up every single workout. Increased aggression at the gym. I’m
pretty surprised my overall mood has increased as well. I don’t expect the mood increase to stay this way since I got pretty lethargic towards the end of my last 1-AD cycle but I’ll enjoy it while I can.

Combined with the overall increase in weekly calories, my body is really responding well. My legs are getting the most results as I’ve purposely tried to get the most calories in on leg days. Wouldn’t say I’m leaner than I was pre cycle, but it visually looks like I’ve packed on about 10 lbs of muscle.

No negative sides to report of except for just being more easily annoyed agitated by smaller things. Libido and sleep is still about the same. Lower back is definitely starting to get tighter but I’ve been taking taurine everyday so haven’t had any actual back pumps yet.

After my carb up yesterday, my weight this morning was 162 so up +10.4 lbs since the start of this cycle although I should go back down a few lbs after shedding this carb water weight.

 

[fantaaoorange]

In a little late.

Glad to have you in on the ride brotha.

 

[Luomo88]

Also late to the party, but following

 

[fantaaoorange]

Day 16 - Week 3:

Diet:
2000 cal / 25g c
162 lbs

Training:
Pull Hypertrophy

Day 17 - Week 3:

Diet:
2100 cal / 20g c
159 lbs

Training:
Push Power
Bench 225x5, 205x7, 185x9, 155x12
(Week 1 Bench 195x5, 205x5, 205x5, 205x5, 210x4)

—
Nothing much to log besides the strength gains are still coming every single day. Felt amazing to hit 2 plates on bench for the first time in a year since injuring my shoulder.

Will try to keep my calories around 2000 the rest of the week after a couple big refeeds last week. Noticed a little bit of extra water retention and bloat which I attribute mostly to my diet and possibly a little from the 4-Andro since I’ve read its a pretty wet compound.

 

[manifesto]

How are you dosing your support supps with the epi and andro? Are you separating the doses...?

I'm getting ready to run something similar, and I've always been confused on whether or not they should be separated

 

[fantaaoorange]

How are you dosing your support supps with the epi and andro? Are you separating the doses...?

I'm getting ready to run something similar, and I've always been confused on whether or not they should be separated

I separate them at least 2 hours apart. My current dosing schedule is as follows:

7am - 10 epi / 300 4ad
9am - supports
12pm - 10 epi / 300 4ad
4pm - 10 epi
* 5pm - WORKOUT
8pm - 10 epi / 300 4ad
10pm - supports (right before bed)

Might seem like a lot of work but it works for me and it’s one less thing I have to worry about. I think the only reason people say to separate the PH doses from supports is because there was an old study showing that milk thistle could possibly block some of the absorption of the PH. I feel like this may have been debunked but in my daily routine it’s easy for me to spread my doses throughout the day so why not.

 

[manifesto]

I separate them at least 2 hours apart. My current dosing schedule is as follows:

7am - 10 epi / 300 4ad
9am - supports
12pm - 10 epi / 300 4ad
4pm - 10 epi
* 5pm - WORKOUT
8pm - 10 epi / 300 4ad
10pm - supports (right before bed)

Might seem like a lot of work but it works for me and it’s one less thing I have to worry about. I think the only reason people say to separate the PH doses from supports is because there was an old study showing that milk thistle could possibly block some of the absorption of the PH. I feel like this may have been debunked but in my daily routine it’s easy for me to spread my doses throughout the day so why not.

Makes sense. Thanks