Epistane/ 11 OXO Cycle Advice

[Goose8]

First post, but i have been reading post and searching post on here for a while. After thinking about it for some time, im now ready to try a epistane cycle, my goal is to shed some body fat while maintaining, if i add some lean muscle on top of that, just a bonus. Ive cut with diet and exercise before, but i always lose muscle and strength with the fat. This is my first PH/DS, so any who knows alot, and is willing to share their knowledge/give advice, it would be greatly appreciated.

Im 27, 6', and 195lbs. My body fat is around 15% My diet is clean, i have on and off sice highschool, but have been lifting seriously for the past year. Ive lost 30lbs via diet and training, but i am hoping that an Epi/11 OXO cycle will help me get down to around 10% BF, and recomp, while maintaining the muscle i have.

My plan is to run a 6 week cycle of havoc, sides permitting, at 20/20/30/30/40/40, and 11 OXO 300/300/450/450/450/450. Im really wanting the cortisol properties more than the anabolic properties from the 11 OXO, thats why the dosage is low. Now Here where i get confused, i am on 100mg/week of test cyp for TRT. Because of that, do i need to make any changes to the cycle, and how do i handle PCT? My natural test production is ****ty, so my main concern is gyno , do i need s SERM just to be safe?. Since Epi is acts like a AI, will that be enough to keep the e2 from the test in check while on cycle?

I have AI Life Support, Liv 52, Fish Oil, Opti-mens, and Taurine to use while on cycle. I also have 6OXO, and PES Erase that i already had. Do i need to add or drop anything?

If anyone can help with some advice, see anything i need to change or add, or if you have any recomendations i would appreciate it. I know im newbie, and you see tons of post like this everyday, but dont want to make an irreversible mistake, so i will take any help and guidance i can get.

 

[JW390898]

Your nat test levels will not have relevance to gyno as such.

Epi and 11-oxo will not cause gyno on cycle, incredibly unlikely.

I would say rather than starting with Epi at 20mg to run a more constant dose of say 30mg throughout, 20mg is too low.

Dosing for Oxo looks good.

 

[Goose8]

So will the epistane controll the E2 from the test while on cycle? My biggest concern was pct, would adding an AI to go along with the weekly test take of everything? Thanks, I will run at 30 for 6 weeks.

 

[technique88]

First post, but i have been reading post and searching post on here for a while. After thinking about it for some time, im now ready to try a epistane cycle, my goal is to shed some body fat while maintaining, if i add some lean muscle on top of that, just a bonus. Ive cut with diet and exercise before, but i always lose muscle and strength with the fat. This is my first PH/DS, so any who knows alot, and is willing to share their knowledge/give advice, it would be greatly appreciated.

Im 27, 6', and 195lbs. My body fat is around 15% My diet is clean, i have on and off sice highschool, but have been lifting seriously for the past year. Ive lost 30lbs via diet and training, but i am hoping that an Epi/11 OXO cycle will help me get down to around 10% BF, and recomp, while maintaining the muscle i have.

My plan is to run a 6 week cycle of havoc, sides permitting, at 20/20/30/30/40/40, and 11 OXO 300/300/450/450/450/450. Im really wanting the cortisol properties more than the anabolic properties from the 11 OXO, thats why the dosage is low. Now Here where i get confused, i am on 100mg/week of test cyp for TRT. Because of that, do i need to make any changes to the cycle, and how do i handle PCT? My natural test production is ****ty, so my main concern is gyno , do i need s SERM just to be safe?. Since Epi is acts like a AI, will that be enough to keep the e2 from the test in check while on cycle?

I have AI Life Support, Liv 52, Fish Oil, Opti-mens, and Taurine to use while on cycle. I also have 6OXO, and PES Erase that i already had. Do i need to add or drop anything?

If anyone can help with some advice, see anything i need to change or add, or if you have any recomendations i would appreciate it. I know im newbie, and you see tons of post like this everyday, but dont want to make an irreversible mistake, so i will take any help and guidance i can get.

You're on trt buddy so beautiful thing about that is you never have to PCT. just throw in the orals, take a good liver support and you're g2g. Like stated above epi will not contribute to gyno nor would 11 oxo. I would personally start epi at 30 and make your way up to 50mg. I've never ran 11 oxo but I hear running it close to a gram is best.

 

[Goose8]

You're on trt buddy so beautiful thing about that is you never have to PCT. just throw in the orals, take a good liver support and you're g2g. Like stated above epi will not contribute to gyno nor would 11 oxo. I would personally start epi at 30 and make your way up to 50mg. I've never ran 11 oxo but I hear running it close to a gram is best.

Thanks man, that was my biggest concern. I could prolly get away bumping my test up to 200mg/week for 4-6 weeks, would it be worth it at that dosage and for that amount of time? If I bumped it up while on the epi cycle, would the epi take care of the extra estrogen from the test, or is it even enough to worry about?

 

[JW390898]

200mg test is unlikely to cause major issues. I am not sure Epi will help (the estro lowering qualities are over stated) but it will not increase risk at all.

 

[Goose8]

i have been using Erase to keep estrogen in check while on TRT, but i was planning to drop while on the epistane. If i do bump it up to 200/week should i continue to take it since the AI properties arent that strong? I thought the Epi and erase together would dry me out too much, but i also thought Epi was a fairly strong AI.

 

[technique88]

Thanks man, that was my biggest concern. I could prolly get away bumping my test up to 200mg/week for 4-6 weeks, would it be worth it at that dosage and for that amount of time? If I bumped it up while on the epi cycle, would the epi take care of the extra estrogen from the test, or is it even enough to worry about?

At 200mg I would just have your AI on hand but only run it if you need to. It's best to do as little as possible and see what your body actually needs. Crushing estrogen apparently can hinder gains and kill libido, get some erase and see how you do on 200mg. IMO I would bump the dosage up to 500mg/week and do a "blast" for 12 weeks, with the last 6 weeks throw in the epi. 500mg is a standard cycle of test and would give you amazing gains. Then after 12 weeks you can drop back down to your standard trt dose.

It's pointless to up the dose for only 4-6 weeks because I am sure your ester is long. Even though you already have stable blood levels it would take 4-6 weeks just to stabilize your new increased dosage. Right when you'd start seeing effects you would be stopping. Go 12 weeks minimum or even As low as 10 weeks.

 

[Goose8]

At 200mg I would just have your AI on hand but only run it if you need to. It's best to do as little as possible and see what your body actually needs. Crushing estrogen apparently can hinder gains and kill libido, get some erase and see how you do on 200mg. IMO I would bump the dosage up to 500mg/week and do a "blast" for 12 weeks, with the last 6 weeks throw in the epi. 500mg is a standard cycle of test and would give you amazing gains. Then after 12 weeks you can drop back down to your standard trt dose.

It's pointless to up the dose for only 4-6 weeks because I am sure your ester is long. Even though you already have stable blood levels it would take 4-6 weeks just to stabilize your new increased dosage. Right when you'd start seeing effects you would be stopping. Go 12 weeks minimum or even As low as 10 weeks.

Hopefully, down the road i will be able to do a legit blast, but right now the most i could get away with is around 250/week for around 8-10 weeks.Thought about trying to go to the Mens Clinic, as my doc thinks mid rang test levels are fine, and pretty much goes on that, not to concerned about trough or e2... I know it isnt a legit blast, but would 250/week for 10 weeks, combined with the epi the last 6 weeks be a decent 1st cycle?

What is the best OTC AI? Ive been taking Erase 3 times a day, but i still like my estrogen is a little high due to puffy nips and some water retention. I have some 6 OXO, should i switch to that? Been saving it because that shat is so expensive, but i can use if needed.

 

[Goose8]

At 200mg I would just have your AI on hand but only run it if you need to. It's best to do as little as possible and see what your body actually needs. Crushing estrogen apparently can hinder gains and kill libido, get some erase and see how you do on 200mg. IMO I would bump the dosage up to 500mg/week and do a "blast" for 12 weeks, with the last 6 weeks throw in the epi. 500mg is a standard cycle of test and would give you amazing gains. Then after 12 weeks you can drop back down to your standard trt dose.

It's pointless to up the dose for only 4-6 weeks because I am sure your ester is long. Even though you already have stable blood levels it would take 4-6 weeks just to stabilize your new increased dosage. Right when you'd start seeing effects you would be stopping. Go 12 weeks minimum or even As low as 10 weeks.

Tried to send you a PM, but your inox was full. Needed an opinion, or anybody that might be willing to point me in the right direction.

 

[technique88]

Hopefully, down the road i will be able to do a legit blast, but right now the most i could get away with is around 250/week for around 8-10 weeks.Thought about trying to go to the Mens Clinic, as my doc thinks mid rang test levels are fine, and pretty much goes on that, not to concerned about trough or e2... I know it isnt a legit blast, but would 250/week for 10 weeks, combined with the epi the last 6 weeks be a decent 1st cycle?

What is the best OTC AI? Ive been taking Erase 3 times a day, but i still like my estrogen is a little high due to puffy nips and some water retention. I have some 6 OXO, should i switch to that? Been saving it because that shat is so expensive, but i can use if needed.

I think erase is probably one of the best OTC AI out there. Honestly I would get full blood work done before you assume our e2 is high. I say that because I've read that puffy sensitive nipples doesn't necessarily mean your e2 is out of control or too high. Naturally you will be having higher e2 levels due to large amounts if test. The estrogen collects around the tissue around nipples causing them to be puffy and sensitive. It is completely normal along with water retention. Just some of the side effects you have to accept.

As for the cycle running it at 250mg should put you in super physiology ranges so I say go for it for a full 10 weeks. You could run the epi the final) weeks if the increased test dosage And I suggest maybe continuing the 11 oxo 2 weeks past the epi (8 weeks total) for cortisol control and to keep things tight.

 

[Goose8]

I think erase is probably one of the best OTC AI out there. Honestly I would get full blood work done before you assume our e2 is high. I say that because I've read that puffy sensitive nipples doesn't necessarily mean your e2 is out of control or too high. Naturally you will be having higher e2 levels due to large amounts if test. The estrogen collects around the tissue around nipples causing them to be puffy and sensitive. It is completely normal along with water retention. Just some of the side effects you have to accept.

As for the cycle running it at 250mg should put you in super physiology ranges so I say go for it for a full 10 weeks. You could run the epi the final) weeks if the increased test dosage And I suggest maybe continuing the 11 oxo 2 weeks past the epi (8 weeks total) for cortisol control and to keep things tight.

I was going tues to get labs done, and see where everything is at, but I have only been on the increased for 2 weeks, should I wait another week or two and give it some time to stabilize, or go ahead and get the estrogen levels checked out? Is prolactin a problem at this dosage, and with the epi? Should I get some inhibit P to keep on hand? Sorry if I seem overly concerned, but it's my first cycle, don't know what to expect or how I going to react, and want to be on the safe side.

 

[technique88]

I was going tues to get labs done, and see where everything is at, but I have only been on the increased for 2 weeks, should I wait another week or two and give it some time to stabilize, or go ahead and get the estrogen levels checked out? Is prolactin a problem at this dosage, and with the epi? Should I get some inhibit P to keep on hand? Sorry if I seem overly concerned, but it's my first cycle, don't know what to expect or how I going to react, and want to be on the safe side.

Epi shouldn't effect prolactin if anything it should help manage it. Running inhibit p is never a bad idea... It couldn't hurt and would only act as a support.