Epic Cutting Stack

NattyForLife said:
Try 1.25xbodyweight.
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Any particular reason for that specific amt? And why do you say keto isn't good for someone fairly lean? Most of the things I've read suggest that keto with refeeds is a very good way to attack stubborn fat and get lean ppl even leaner. Not refuting just curious your thoughts
 
booneman77 said:
Any particular reason for that specific amt? And why do you say keto isn't good for someone fairly lean? Most of the things I've read suggest that keto with refeeds is a very good way to attack stubborn fat and get lean ppl even leaner. Not refuting just curious your thoughts
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Im not saying keto doesnt work...it works amazing for getting lean fast, but when your already lean you dont need to get leaner superfast(a bunch of muscle wasting is going to happen). Keto is very low carb. Carbs are more anabolic than fats, so you need to keep your protein intake higher than normal to help prevent muscle loss because you are going super low carb.
 
NattyForLife said:
Go read the article "Carbohydrates and fatloss" on AM. It was posted on june 3, and it is a very good article.
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I actually did read that just the oter day. It's a very good article but I feel like it doesn't pertain as much to someone who has been dieting for a long time already. I've been lowering carbs through my diet and lately have been seeing diminishing results thus the though to try keto for a bit. There's a lot of evidence that with proper protein and aminos around workouts that there is no reason you can't conserve muscle during a workout. Essentially you only need to supply the body with immediate fuel (in this case bcaa/eaas) at workout time to counteract the rigorous workout.
 
booneman77 said:
I actually did read that just the oter day. It's a very good article but I feel like it doesn't pertain as much to someone who has been dieting for a long time already. I've been lowering carbs through my diet and lately have been seeing diminishing results thus the though to try keto for a bit. There's a lot of evidence that with proper protein and aminos around workouts that there is no reason you can't conserve muscle during a workout. Essentially you only need to supply the body with immediate fuel (in this case bcaa/eaas) at workout time to counteract the rigorous workout.
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Go for it than. Thats the reason i said to up your protein a little.
 
NattyForLife said:
Im not saying keto doesnt work...it works amazing for getting lean fast, but when your already lean you dont need to get leaner superfast(a bunch of muscle wasting is going to happen). Keto is very low carb. Carbs are more anabolic than fats, so you need to keep your protein intake higher than normal to help prevent muscle loss because you are going super low carb.
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Zing... what i wrote before as well. Carbs are more the most protein sparing thing once fat/protein minimum's are met. Hence how vital they are.
It does not matter the length of the cut. carbs play their role.
 
Forgot to note that I bumped XI-kt up to 1.5ml yesterday. Hoping to see some additional leaving as I really haven't noticed much thus far.
 
SauceMonkey22 said:
Took me about 4 weeks to really notice any effects and week 6 it started to shine. def 8 weeks is where its at
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What dose did you run? I'm just a couple days into week 4 I believe. Have another bottle ready to go
 
SauceMonkey22 said:
Or I'd go broke and run 3ml for 8-10 weeks
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Fixed, lol.

I'm into my fourth week of 1.5mL per day and am seeing decent strength gains and leaning out. Final two weeks I might drop calories pretty low to finish it out, then reverse diet back up (with DCP 2.0, Combustion and Vanillean added in :D).
 
Still going strong on the lifting and diet front. Had a couple days where I ate more than intended, and ended up averaging 3,000 calories last week. Trying to drop calories a bit more these last two weeks of XI-KT to ~2,500.

This morning's weigh-in was 224.7, so back to close to where I started. BF% tested out at 18.9% this week. I hate that sensor, but it hopefully at least gives me a trend line. I know I am leaner, and that my strength has stayed the same or possible increased a bit. Bench was still decent today. I'll see how Squat is tomorrow.

I'll hopefully be receiving my thrid bottle of Combustion, along with a bottle each of Vanillean and DCP 2.0 to finish out this cut strong!

Here's my workout from this morning:

Barbell Bench Press

80 lb x 5 reps
100 lb x 5 reps
120 lb x 3 reps
130 lb x 5 reps
150 lb x 5 reps
165 lb x 8 reps

Last cycle before vacation, 5+ week. These felt really good, I got really tight and was able to stay that way. Might have gotten a 9th rep, but didn't push it.

Standing Barbell Shoulder Press (OHP)

45 lb x 5 reps
65 lb x 5 reps
80 lb x 10 reps
80 lb x 10 reps
80 lb x 10 reps

Was planning on 5 X 10, but the pump actually got painful in my left delt.

One-Arm Dumbbell Row

85 lb x 10 reps
85 lb x 10 reps
85 lb x 10 reps (PR)
1:30 between sets. Used straps, but it was hard to bc the knurling on these new DBs is so rough. Felt pretty good.

Hammer Dumbbell Curl

35 lb x 5 reps
35 lb x 5 reps
35 lb x 5 reps

Standing Dumbbell Triceps Extension

50 lb x 5 reps
50 lb x 5 reps
50 lb x 5 reps

Face Pull

120 lb x 10 reps
120 lb x 10 reps
120 lb x 10 reps
 
Misfit28 said:
Still going strong on the lifting and diet front. Had a couple days where I ate more than intended, and ended up averaging 3,000 calories last week. Trying to drop calories a bit more these last two weeks of XI-KT to ~2,500.

This morning's weigh-in was 224.7, so back to close to where I started. BF% tested out at 18.9% this week. I hate that sensor, but it hopefully at least gives me a trend line. I know I am leaner, and that my strength has stayed the same or possible increased a bit. Bench was still decent today. I'll see how Squat is tomorrow.

I'll hopefully be receiving my thrid bottle of Combustion, along with a bottle each of Vanillean and DCP 2.0 to finish out this cut strong!

Here's my workout from this morning:

Barbell Bench Press

80 lb x 5 reps
100 lb x 5 reps
120 lb x 3 reps
130 lb x 5 reps
150 lb x 5 reps
165 lb x 8 reps

Last cycle before vacation, 5+ week. These felt really good, I got really tight and was able to stay that way. Might have gotten a 9th rep, but didn't push it.

Standing Barbell Shoulder Press (OHP)

45 lb x 5 reps
65 lb x 5 reps
80 lb x 10 reps
80 lb x 10 reps
80 lb x 10 reps

Was planning on 5 X 10, but the pump actually got painful in my left delt.

One-Arm Dumbbell Row

85 lb x 10 reps
85 lb x 10 reps
85 lb x 10 reps (PR)
1:30 between sets. Used straps, but it was hard to bc the knurling on these new DBs is so rough. Felt pretty good.

Hammer Dumbbell Curl

35 lb x 5 reps
35 lb x 5 reps
35 lb x 5 reps

Standing Dumbbell Triceps Extension

50 lb x 5 reps
50 lb x 5 reps
50 lb x 5 reps

Face Pull

120 lb x 10 reps
120 lb x 10 reps
120 lb x 10 reps
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Solid all-around workout there.

I had a nice "full body" (no legs due to this disaster of a hamstring) at the hotel gym Tuesday just to keep me sane. The one thing I can do leg related is ride a bike still so that's how I've been doing my cardio. Still can't walk uphill or bend over much without some strain/pain or my hammy "grabbing" me. Almost feels like a cramp and it's incredibly annoying. Travelled home yesterday so that was my off day. Gonna get back to my push-pull schedule today minus the leg exercises and with a few changes on pull day to work around anyhting that requires me to lean forward/bend over. My saving grace last week was the incline bench as I can put my chest on it and take my legs out of it. Sucks that I can't do BB Rows, Deads, or seated cable rows which are all staples for me normally.
 
booneman77 said:
Solid all-around workout there.

I had a nice "full body" (no legs due to this disaster of a hamstring) at the hotel gym Tuesday just to keep me sane. The one thing I can do leg related is ride a bike still so that's how I've been doing my cardio. Still can't walk uphill or bend over much without some strain/pain or my hammy "grabbing" me. Almost feels like a cramp and it's incredibly annoying. Travelled home yesterday so that was my off day. Gonna get back to my push-pull schedule today minus the leg exercises and with a few changes on pull day to work around anyhting that requires me to lean forward/bend over. My saving grace last week was the incline bench as I can put my chest on it and take my legs out of it. Sucks that I can't do BB Rows, Deads, or seated cable rows which are all staples for me normally.
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Man, I'm sorry to hear it isn't much better yet :(

Glad to see you got some work in while traveling, that's hard to do! I'm trying to hit the gym hard these last few weeks, as I know I won't be hitting the gym while I'm in Florida. Pretty much eating out and beaches all the time, LOL.
 
Updated workout plan (legs or hamstring activating exercises removed :( ): Push-Pull-Off (cardio only)

Push:
OHP (5x5)
Lateral Raise (3x8-12)
BB Bench (5x5)
Smith incline press (3x8-12)
Skull Crusher (5x5)
Rope Pushdown (3x8-12)
FST-7 Finisher (7x10, 15sec rest) (rotate between BB Shoulder press, pec dek/cable fly, tri overhead DB extension/straight bar cable pressdown)

Pull:
Pullup (10x5)
Lat Pulldown (4x8-12)
Incline Bench DB Row (4x8-12)
Rear Delt Fly (4x8-12 + 1 destroyer set)
Machine T-Bar Row (4x8-12)
FST-7 Finisher (7x10, 15sec rest) (Rotate between Neutral Grip Pulldown, machine pullovers, straight arm cable pulldowns)

Feel free to suggest any other exercises (especially for the pull day) that you have that i could do without engaging my hamstring (nothing bent over or leg supported basically)
 
Misfit28 said:
Man, I'm sorry to hear it isn't much better yet :(

Glad to see you got some work in while traveling, that's hard to do! I'm trying to hit the gym hard these last few weeks, as I know I won't be hitting the gym while I'm in Florida. Pretty much eating out and beaches all the time, LOL.
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Haha I hear that. I always try to get a hotel with at least some DB's to get some work in. Its just good for me mentally. When are you heading on vacation? Thats my target as well as I leave 7/11 for a cruise. I'm planning on eating and drinking my face off but I hear theres a gym on the boat so I'm gonna prob hit that a few times as well and hopefully enjoy some of that post-diet anabolism that you get when you overfeed after a long diet
 
booneman77 said:
Haha I hear that. I always try to get a hotel with at least some DB's to get some work in. Its just good for me mentally. When are you heading on vacation? Thats my target as well as I leave 7/11 for a cruise. I'm planning on eating and drinking my face off but I hear theres a gym on the boat so I'm gonna prob hit that a few times as well and hopefully enjoy some of that post-diet anabolism that you get when you overfeed after a long diet
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I'm actually leaving on 7/4 for Pensacola/Gulf Breeze, FL. My grandmother has a place down there, so no hotel :)

I'm just going to relax and enjoy the time off :) I'll actually probably have to remember to eat enough!
 
Misfit28 said:
I'm actually leaving on 7/4 for Pensacola/Gulf Breeze, FL. My grandmother has a place down there, so no hotel :)

I'm just going to relax and enjoy the time off :) I'll actually probably have to remember to eat enough!
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I'm jealous of the not remembering to eat enough... That's never been a problem for me as my appetite is basically insatiable... Vacation is just gonna be 8 days of buffets and booze so i expect to pack on at least 15lb if not more. I'd love to control it a bit and keep things looking good but truthfully im just tired of dieting and the break will be so good mentally that I can't pass it up.
 
booneman77 said:
I'm jealous of the not remembering to eat enough... That's never been a problem for me as my appetite is basically insatiable... Vacation is just gonna be 8 days of buffets and booze so i expect to pack on at least 15lb if not more. I'd love to control it a bit and keep things looking good but truthfully im just tired of dieting and the break will be so good mentally that I can't pass it up.
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Absolutely! It shouldn't be a problem to get enough calories if I eat like crap, but I try to make smart choices now. I still need to keep my strength up, though.
 
SauceMonkey22 said:
Lying incline db reverse fly's?

Reverse fly machine, I do these eccentric with a 2-3s contraction

If you can walk with dB's I like seated shrugs better than standing. Doesn't let me cheat.

You can honestly do 6 different variants of lat pulldown and then just lean back more and make it a row as well. Single arm, sa with a twist, sa and eccentric, wide grip neutral, wide grip palms toward you, close grip etc etc.

If I were in your shoes I'd focus strictly on form and different tempos. A lot of eccentric work. Ever since I focused on that I felt my back strength and development has taken off
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I dont have a fly machine at my gym so I use almost exclusively free weights... the rear delt flys are on the incline bench so those are in already.

I rarely do shrugs cuz for some reason my traps have always been excessively big in comparison even tho I never did much direct work.

I'll have to try some more pulldown variations tho and work on some extra squeezes and such. I just miss my BB stuff ha.
 
SauceMonkey22 said:
If I were in your shoes I'd focus strictly on form and different tempos. A lot of eccentric work. Ever since I focused on that I felt my back strength and development has taken off
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This..
The muscle is under the most tension in the eccentric phase
the most overlooked part of lifting.
 
Finished up my first bottle of XI-KT this morning. Going to continue 1.5ml dosing for the entire second... so far really haven't noticed too much. There were initially some strength "gains" but that seems to have diminished (I'm sure partially due to dieting) but otherwise nothing really to note. I do "feel" like I've lost some fat in my lower abs, especially right at my hip bones but I'm still holding that annoying area right at my belly button. Hopefully the second bottle will help there and I'll finish strong.

I seem to be holding a lot of water lately as food volume has gone down (due to the higher fat keto dieting) and weight has stayed the same or slightly up most days. I'm sure this has some to do with the very little/odd eating I had to do while traveling so I'll see how the weekend goes and what that looks like.

On a diet note, I've taken the advice you guys gave and changed up my macros to this: 225p/90f/23c/1800kcal... I'm finding it near impossible to keep carbs that low tho and still get a reasonable amount of veggies in (havent been subtracting fiber tho so that prob would lower the "usable" carbs quite a bit). I'm thinking about just adding in some cheeses instead of PB and some smaller veggie portions with an additional vitamin to help maintain. Thoughts?
 
SauceMonkey22 said:
When I did and tried lean gains I was having about 30-40g cho on off days and the majority of my food came from meat (like 85/15, 90/10) salmon, whole eggs, fish oil for the fat content. Occasionally PB and n nuts For carbs I really love spinach so err day was spinach. Spinach omelettes with full fat cheese and turkey bacon nomz I think you can allow a little bit more carbs than 23g though, as far as I'm concerned, the fats in nuts / PB make the insulin spike so negligible it won't matter, if that's what your concerned about?. Those 8g of carbs in 2 tb PB will get soaked up in seconds lol Or if you have trouble maybe try getting a greens supp for those micros
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I was def considering a greens supp as well. Spinach is my go to. That or broccoli, I love it. I eat one or both at almost every meal so I could prob just start cutting it back to every other meal or so since theres a ton of vitamin in both of those.
 
booneman77 said:
I was def considering a greens supp as well. Spinach is my go to. That or broccoli, I love it. I eat one or both at almost every meal so I could prob just start cutting it back to every other meal or so since theres a ton of vitamin in both of those.
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I would definitely stick to whole foods over a greens supplement. :D
 
Cheese has carbs too, just like eggs do. Either way your still getting carbs in. Your best bet is fatty beef or bacon or butter, but in all reality those arent very micronutrient dense like veggies which you are going to need to eat, and those do contain carbs. and add up very fast.
 
The Solution said:
Cheese has carbs too, just like eggs do. Either way your still getting carbs in. Your best bet is fatty beef or bacon or butter, but in all reality those arent very micronutrient dense like veggies which you are going to need to eat, and those do contain carbs. and add up very fast.
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eggs have carbs?
 
SauceMonkey22 said:
Yeah definitely but if you wanna get below a certain point it might be needed.

I'd just up carbs to say 40 max. If its predominantly, and most likely all I'd guess, coming from veggies and nuts/nut butter you'll be good to go imo , doubt you'll notice a difference. I sure didn't

No starch I'm assuming?
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The Solution said:
Cheese has carbs too, just like eggs do. Either way your still getting carbs in. Your best bet is fatty beef or bacon or butter, but in all reality those arent very micronutrient dense like veggies which you are going to need to eat, and those do contain carbs. and add up very fast.
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Ya all of my carbs are coming from trace sources in eggs, protein powders, cottage cheese, nut butters and then my veggies... the last few days (coun ting fiber) I've been around 50g or so. Gonna drop the cottage cheese tonight as that has like 14g/cup or so and sub in some fattier meats and cheeses.
 
Rodja said:
A WHOLE 1g!?!?
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Veggies have carbs
Eggs have carbs
BCAA's have protein
Fishoil's have fat

it all adds up

If you eat 16-20 eggs a week that is almost 80 kcals not even accounted for. Personal preference if you want to count them or not, but its right on the label.

may as well not count your fat in oatmeal or protein either then.
 
The Solution said:
Veggies have carbs Eggs have carbs BCAA's have protein Fishoil's have fat it all adds up If you eat 16-20 eggs a week that is almost 80 kcals not even accounted for. Personal preference if you want to count them or not, but its right on the label. may as well not count your fat in oatmeal or protein either then.
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I hope you're calculating the difference in TEF between the macros if you're going to be that anal.
 
booneman77 said:
Finished up my first bottle of XI-KT this morning. Going to continue 1.5ml dosing for the entire second... so far really haven't noticed too much. There were initially some strength "gains" but that seems to have diminished (I'm sure partially due to dieting) but otherwise nothing really to note. I do "feel" like I've lost some fat in my lower abs, especially right at my hip bones but I'm still holding that annoying area right at my belly button. Hopefully the second bottle will help there and I'll finish strong.

I seem to be holding a lot of water lately as food volume has gone down (due to the higher fat keto dieting) and weight has stayed the same or slightly up most days. I'm sure this has some to do with the very little/odd eating I had to do while traveling so I'll see how the weekend goes and what that looks like.

On a diet note, I've taken the advice you guys gave and changed up my macros to this: 225p/90f/23c/1800kcal... I'm finding it near impossible to keep carbs that low tho and still get a reasonable amount of veggies in (havent been subtracting fiber tho so that prob would lower the "usable" carbs quite a bit). I'm thinking about just adding in some cheeses instead of PB and some smaller veggie portions with an additional vitamin to help maintain. Thoughts?
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I was thinking about trying this. Do you still think it's worth it?
 
The Solution said:
Calories add up If you don't want to count them by all means My coach is competing at jr nats tomorrow big parrot there
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You're overstating everything and focus on some of the most mundane minutiae like a fücking gram of carbs in an egg. It's completely nonsensical to obsess over something like that, but then ignore the variance in TEF amongst the macros. Does your coach ever talk about that? Or do not ask anything and just prove my point about parroting?
 
cbsharpe said:
Yep!
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If I had to go by the results thus far I wouldn't recommend it but I've been running a low dose for most of the time and heard that right about now (4weeks) is when you start to really notice it so I'll reserve judgement until the end of bottle 2.

That said, it's a great price at np right now so if you're thinking about it I'd go for it. Many people have had great results.
 
I can tell I'm leaning out considerably. The final photos will tell though. I think it is really kicking in now in my fourth week.

I was staying steady on weight and even went up a bit the first three weeks, but I was looking leaner. I just had a huge whoosh effect yesterday and dropped like 4 lbs., but my strength is about the same except for Deadlift, where it seems to be going up.

Can't wait to see what these final two weeks bring for me, especially adding in the DCP 2.0 and Vanillean.
 
booneman77 said:
If I had to go by the results thus far I wouldn't recommend it but I've been running a low dose for most of the time and heard that right about now (4weeks) is when you start to really notice it so I'll reserve judgement until the end of bottle 2.

That said, it's a great price at np right now so if you're thinking about it I'd go for it. Many people have had great results.
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Thanks boone!
 
Rodja said:
You're overstating everything and focus on some of the most mundane minutiae like a fücking gram of carbs in an egg. It's completely nonsensical to obsess over something like that, but then ignore the variance in TEF amongst the macros. Does your coach ever talk about that? Or do not ask anything and just prove my point about parroting?
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How do you even find pleasure in living in a world of incompetence and ignorance? Perpetually pointing out the aformentioned must be an emotionally and physically exhausting existance despite your great apptitude for it. Try to enjoy the rest of your weekend! :D
 
David Dunn said:
How do you even find pleasure in living in a world of incompetence and ignorance? Perpetually pointing out the aformentioned must be an emotionally and physically exhausting existance despite your great apptitude for it. Try to enjoy the rest of your weekend! :D
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I didn't realize my personal pleasure in life was contingent upon the rest of the world.
 
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