Epiandro lethargy?

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Hypnotic traveling

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Currently using iconic formulations ultra epi @ 5 pumps per day. I was feeling fantastic until the start of my fourth week when surprisingly I began to experience lethargy. After some research I found that it’s not super common but some people experience an estrogen crash which can cause lethargy. I started using dermacrine to see if it helps @ 3 pumps per day. Has anyone else experienced this?
 
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Currently using iconic formulations ultra epi @ 5 pumps per day. I was feeling fantastic until the start of my fourth week when surprisingly I began to experience lethargy. After some research I found that it’s not super common but some people experience an estrogen crash which can cause lethargy. I started using dermacrine to see if it helps @ 3 pumps per day. Has anyone else experienced this?
I haven't, but some have.

Might want to up the Dermacrine until you start feeling better, then you can dial it back down if you decide to.
.... You're starting off in a hole.
 
Hypnotic traveling

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I haven't, but some have.

Might want to up the Dermacrine until you start feeling better, then you can dial it back down if you decide to.
.... You're starting off in a hole.
Hey thanks for the reply. That makes sense - maybe start at 5 pumps daily?
 
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Currently using iconic formulations ultra epi @ 5 pumps per day. I was feeling fantastic until the start of my fourth week when surprisingly I began to experience lethargy. After some research I found that it’s not super common but some people experience an estrogen crash which can cause lethargy. I started using dermacrine to see if it helps @ 3 pumps per day. Has anyone else experienced this?
in theory epi-andro shouldn't reduce estrogen by that much--it's cousin androsterone is the one that reduces estrogen, this is why 1gm of androsterone is included in ALPHA FOUR-the reason androsterone isn't included in most of iconic formulations competetitors products is the expense of ANDROSTERONE.

but having said that, some people are ultra sensitive and and have different responses than most... @Hypnotic traveling dermacrine should help out-good luck!!!
 
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So my only guess would be low estrogen, not because the epiandro is crushing it, but even if its lowering it slightly, combine that with some suppression of your natural testosterone, less test, less estrogen, its possible. Or coincidence. I use to use dermicrine quite often back in the day. 5-6 pumps a day for sure
 
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It's possible that low Estro (comparative to high DHT) isn't your issue, but without blood work, it's the best guess.

Dermacrine isn't going to cause you high-Estro issues, so (barring bloodwork) I'd give it a try).
 
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thebigt

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It's possible that low Estro (comparative to high DHT) isn't your issue, but without blood work, it's the best guess.

Dermacrine isn't going to cause you high-Estro issues, so (barring bloodwork) I'd give it a try).
looks like dermacrine for the win!!!

use my code THEBIGT and save 20% of at iconic formulations
 
Hypnotic traveling

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Body felt great when I woke up this morning, no sore joints etc. i feel like the lethargy has begun to subside. I increased it to 5 pumps this morning. I also feel a bit of a mood boost - like I’m ready to tackle the day and crush obstacles. Also worth noting at the time of this post I’m only on about 5 hours sleep. I’m not sure if it’s the dermacrine but at this point it’s the only recent addition since the ultra epi so I’d say it’s a safe bet! Thanks for the info everybody.
 
cheftepesh1

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I haven't, but some have.

Might want to up the Dermacrine until you start feeling better, then you can dial it back down if you decide to.
.... You're starting off in a hole.
This is the best advice. Dermacrine is designed to aid in reducing these effects.





Code chef will give you 20% off dermacrine
 
Smont

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It's possible that low Estro (comparative to high DHT) isn't your issue, but without blood work, it's the best guess.

Dermacrine isn't going to cause you high-Estro issues, so (barring bloodwork) I'd give it a try).
We can say this about every question related to side effects. Without bloodwork it's a guessing game. The problem with guessing is that if your wrong your probably gonna get more problems. I've guessed wrong plenty of times
 
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We can say this about every question related to side effects. Without bloodwork it's a guessing game. The problem with guessing is that if your wrong your probably gonna get more problems. I've guessed wrong plenty of times
I agree.

But in this instance, the Dermacrine is a pretty Safe option to try.
And he's taking a LOT of DHT, so it's definitely my best guess here.

That much DHT has the potential to make you feel crappy, without balancing it out at least a little with some Estrogen.
 
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Thanks for the replies. Update: lethargy and joint pain has completely subsided after 5 days of dermacrine. I’m feeling much better and the mood boost has been quite nice as well 👍👍👍
 
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Should of got the four Andro they have. Superior to dermacrine by far imo.
Honestly, funds were tight and I got 2 containers of ultra epi on bogo when I purchased dermacrine and sustain alpha. And this being my first cycle I thought running the epi solo was the way to go just to see how I respond. I hear great things about their four Andro though, maybe I’ll consider their topical 1andro and 4andro for my next cycle.
 

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Yeah the stuff is expensive. The dermacrine is fine and lots of people like it.
 
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I agree.

But in this instance, the Dermacrine is a pretty Safe option to try.
And he's taking a LOT of DHT, so it's definitely my best guess here.

That much DHT has the potential to make you feel crappy, without balancing it out at least a little with some Estrogen.
I'm not against the dermicrine at all, I cant see any negative to adding that stuff to any prohormone cycle
 
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Honestly, funds were tight and I got 2 containers of ultra epi on bogo when I purchased dermacrine and sustain alpha. And this being my first cycle I thought running the epi solo was the way to go just to see how I respond. I hear great things about their four Andro though, maybe I’ll consider their topical 1andro and 4andro for my next cycle.
Listen and please dont take this as me trying to be a dyck because I'm not.

"Funds are tight" should never be a excuse to run a poorly thought cycle. If you dont have the funds for a proper set up then how do you have the funds to eat proper food and have on cycle necessities like things to control estrogen and blood pressure and your heart ect, not saying you always need those things but you if you dont have them on hand then your asking for problems.

Not to mention that the over the counter prohormone cycles at proper doses to see results and the proper pct set up is way more expensive then running real gear.

When funds are tight you should spend it at the grocery store and save the cycle for another time
 
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A well thought out andro cycle that will produce results can run you around $400 for a 6-8 week cycle

But you could run test at 500mg for 10 weeks with exemstane and clomid on hand for about $200 with way better results,

Dont like needles? I'd rather see someone run a low dose dbol only cycle over these otc prohormone. Again about $150-200 for a 6 week cycle with all the things on hand and way better results
 
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A well thought out andro cycle that will produce results can run you around $400 for a 6-8 week cycle

But you could run test at 500mg for 10 weeks with exemstane and clomid on hand for about $200 with way better results,

Dont like needles? I'd rather see someone run a low dose dbol only cycle over these otc prohormone. Again about $150-200 for a 6 week cycle with all the things on hand and way better results
legality????
 
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legality????
Ya, I cant argue that. But it dosen't change anything I said about buying something just because it was cheap and not having the things you need to do it right. At the end of the day a lot of the oct prohormone cycles are messing with your hormones for small results or a empty pocket if you want worthwhile gains. I'm not saying these things dont work, they do to a degree. But also if legal issues are a concern, how do you run a pct? clomid, nolva, hcg ect. Are all technically illegal too
 
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I think anyone who's run epiandro solo before would agree to see anything noteworthy you need a minimum of 600-800mg a day

Now at 1200mg a day I'd say it's like running 50mg winny, but again at like 5x the price tag
 
Hypnotic traveling

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I think anyone who's run epiandro solo before would agree to see anything noteworthy you need a minimum of 600-800mg a day

Now at 1200mg a day I'd say it's like running 50mg winny, but again at like 5x the price tag
Thanks for your input man. I’m relatively new to prohormones I did however do research. I chose epiandro as it’s a mild cycle and I felt it was a good introduction and at 5 pumps daily, I had read it was equivalent to 900mg epiandro. At that dose 1container is 4 weeks and I just started my second for a total of 8 weeks. I kept dermacrine on hand in case of lethargy, which I did end up needing. I also have Helios and Hawthorne berry for prostate health and blood pressure respectively. There’s no history of baldness in my family so I wasn’t worried about hair loss. I also have tamoxifen citrate(20/20/10/10) and sustain alpha for my pct. I have half a vile of invictus for cortisol and I may pick up another full vile. I will admit I did chose to put together an inexpensive beginner cycle but I think I covered all of my bases. I acquired all of this prior to starting my cycle, of which I’m half way through.
so far I’ve noticed an increase in strength, muscle hardness and odd to say I feel as though since adding the dermacrine I have put on a bit of size. I feel a bit of aggression, and since adding the dermacrine my mood has surely been elevated. So far I’m pleased with my progress, as I knew what I could realistically expect from such a mild cycle. However, I do understand what you’re explaining in regards to risk vs reward and I appreciate your view and I agree with it. I just felt like I’d rather safely dip my toes before I dive in.
 
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Thanks for your input man. I’m relatively new to prohormones I did however do research. I chose epiandro as it’s a mild cycle and I felt it was a good introduction and at 5 pumps daily, I had read it was equivalent to 900mg epiandro. At that dose 1container is 4 weeks and I just started my second for a total of 8 weeks. I kept dermacrine on hand in case of lethargy, which I did end up needing. I also have Helios and Hawthorne berry for prostate health and blood pressure respectively. There’s no history of baldness in my family so I wasn’t worried about hair loss. I also have tamoxifen citrate(20/20/10/10) and sustain alpha for my pct. I have half a vile of invictus for cortisol and I may pick up another full vile. I will admit I did chose to put together an inexpensive beginner cycle but I think I covered all of my bases. I acquired all of this prior to starting my cycle, of which I’m half way through.
so far I’ve noticed an increase in strength, muscle hardness and odd to say I feel as though since adding the dermacrine I have put on a bit of size. I feel a bit of aggression, and since adding the dermacrine my mood has surely been elevated. So far I’m pleased with my progress, as I knew what I could realistically expect from such a mild cycle. However, I do understand what you’re explaining in regards to risk vs reward and I appreciate your view and I agree with it. I just felt like I’d rather safely dip my toes before I dive in.
I guess I jumped to conclusions when I saw the funds are tight comment, you got plenty of stuff on hand. I dont know if that dose really equals 900mg like that say, but if it does, I'd definitely be willing to bet that somewhere between 4-6 weeks in your test is dropping and your producing less and less estrogen. Dht steroids can give you that agression and sex drive you want, but low estrogen is a bytch, and adding something like 4andro would help more then dermicrine, not because it converts to test which it does poorly, but because it converts to estrogen, and it should more then dermicrine by a long shot "in theory " I dont have any proof of that like comparing bloodwork. Anyway, you have things you need on hand, now it's a matter of figuring out how yo fix it. Dermicrine at 5-6 pumps or 4 andro @ 330mg or more. At least those were the doses when I used these things I dont know if theres a new abortion method that actually works these days making a lower dose more effective. If been out the otc prohormone scene for at least 5 years I think
 
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I've screwed up many cycles in the past, that's the reason I wanted to draw attention to that. I know how counterproductive it can be grabbing something over the counter and running 1 bottle with no pct, did that when hdrol and epistane first hit the market
 
Hypnotic traveling

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I guess I jumped to conclusions when I saw the funds are tight comment, you got plenty of stuff on hand. I dont know if that dose really equals 900mg like that say, but if it does, I'd definitely be willing to bet that somewhere between 4-6 weeks in your test is dropping and your producing less and less estrogen. Dht steroids can give you that agression and sex drive you want, but low estrogen is a bytch, and adding something like 4andro would help more then dermicrine, not because it converts to test which it does poorly, but because it converts to estrogen, and it should more then dermicrine by a long shot "in theory " I dont have any proof of that like comparing bloodwork. Anyway, you have things you need on hand, now it's a matter of figuring out how yo fix it. Dermicrine at 5-6 pumps or 4 andro @ 330mg or more. At least those were the doses when I used these things I dont know if theres a new abortion method that actually works these days making a lower dose more effective. If been out the otc prohormone scene for at least 5 years I think
No worries man, I appreciate the help. I researched everything but I’m still a noob, so any and all information from an experienced crowd is more than welcome. Thanks, thats good information On the 4 andro, and may have been the appropriate move. The dermacrine seems to have done the trick at 5 pumps daily but maybe 4andro would have been ideal to have on hand, so next time I’ll be sure to ask questions first and then place my orders.
 
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No worries man, I appreciate the help. I researched everything but I’m still a noob, so any and all information from an experienced crowd is more than welcome. Thanks, thats good information On the 4 andro, and may have been the appropriate move. The dermacrine seems to have done the trick at 5 pumps daily but maybe 4andro would have been ideal to have on hand, so next time I’ll be sure to ask questions first and then place my orders.
Just my opinion man .... Sounds like the Dermacrine did a great job for you.
.... I'd be hesitant to change it.
 
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At the end of the day, you can learn from being on boards and the internet ect. But take everything we say and everything you read with a grain of salt. You dont know anything for certain till you have tried it and what works for me or what works for person x,y or z may not work for you. The best thing you can do is keep notes on everything you take and then you will know for sure what does what. You see guys always bashing dbol only, why? Because they read it on the internet. Is it a great idea, probably not. But it's been used as trt since the 1960s, so if you can take it solo permanently for trt then why would running it as a solo cycle be a no go. Or any oral steroid for that matter, everyone says no but then they think it's fine to run prohormone cycles, it's the same thing. Theres better ways do do things but you wont know if you never tried it
 
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I think anyone who's run epiandro solo before would agree to see anything noteworthy you need a minimum of 600-800mg a day

Now at 1200mg a day I'd say it's like running 50mg winny, but again at like 5x the price tag
ultra epi is 450mg per dose with 28 doses per bottle...transdermal is around twice as effective as oral epi. if you use my code THEBIGT at iconic formulations it comes out to less than $50 a bottle....plus it is 100% legal.
 
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ultra epi is 450mg per dose with 28 doses per bottle...transdermal is around twice as effective as oral epi. if you use my code THEBIGT at iconic formulations it comes out to less than $50 a bottle....plus it is 100% legal.
Ok, but I was talking about running a cycle correctly to see results. A 1 bottle epiandro only cycle isint much of a cycle at all. To do a proper cycle with it that is going to produce some kind of results worth your time you need 2 bottles of that minimum (4 week cycles dont do jack squat) so that's 100 bucks, now you need something to run along side it to give you some estrogen, remember I was talking about running cycles correctly, not just buying a single product. And that's going to run you another 100 or more. So that's bare minimum for your cycle and that's the legal part, pct is the most important part of your cycle and that part is not legal, bare minimum you need nolva or clomid picking 1 will run you a minimum of another $50

So at bare minimum, to run a andro cycle somewhat correctly and cover your bases to make gains your looking at $250 and it's not completely legal.

Now if you want to just buy a bottle of something and run it for 4 weeks with no pct then sure fine its $50 bucks and legal, you might not even need a pct for 4 weeks of that product, but 4 weeks of any over the counter or any product for that matter will not give you much of any progress for the simple fact that theres a very, very limited amount of what can be achieved in 4 weeks.

I get it, your a rep, you got a product to promote and I'm not bashing the product. They work. But theres a big difference between buying a product and setting up a cycle and I was talking about the latter
 
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I will say this, at $50 a bottle if it does equate to 900mg a day, that a great $50 a month add on to someone's trt protocol for a little kick in the butt!
 
thebigt

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I will say this, at $50 a bottle if it does equate to 900mg a day, that a great $50 a month add on to someone's trt protocol for a little kick in the butt!
:love:
 

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