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Epiandro and 1-Andro log because their are very few out there!!

Brandon25 said:
Man I have no idea what that is lol. Point me in right direction
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Basically drop all carbs. 25g of carbs max to begin after you're in ketosis you may be able to up this a little bit. The remainder of calories is roughly 30% protein and remainder is fat. When in ketosis you need less protein than normal because your body uses it more efficiently. You can play with this amount a little but you can't go to high on protein because the body can convert it into carbs and kick you out of ketosis.
 
Oh man idk about all that. Feel like i'd never have any energy. Was planning on cutting at about 2200 cal (assuming TDEE is 2700) 200g protein 70g fat remainder carbs. Just gotta get me a meal plan made out that I can stick to and be able to eat on the go because of basketball. I figure i'll eat a lot of seasoned tilapia for protein plus a couple protein shakes a day with 2 scoops of whey in each. Then just fill in from there. Maybe some yogurt and eggs for breakfast or something. Idk
 
Brandon25 said:
Gonna run 1/4/epi. I got it why not run it ha
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Just going to say that I think it's a good idea to add in the 4-andro. I'm starting week 4 of my 1/Epi run and lethargy is BAD. So much so that I don't want to work out, which is fairly rare.
Just picked up some 4 that should be here this weekend, so hopefully it gives me a nice boost.
 
Brandon25 it's simple bro... Figure out what macros you want and get a calorie counter app (calorie king, my fitness pal)... then input food before you eat to see if it fits your macros...
 
slapyou said:
Just going to say that I think it's a good idea to add in the 4-andro. I'm starting week 4 of my 1/Epi run and lethargy is BAD. So much so that I don't want to work out, which is fairly rare.
Just picked up some 4 that should be here this weekend, so hopefully it gives me a nice boost.
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How much epiandro/1andro you dosing
 
Brandon25 said:
I was told that the epi should help combat the lethargy and that epi helps with cutting and vasculsrity and I know 4 leads to water retention. Running both together seems kinda counter productive. I'm wanting to tighten up and cut hopefully get down to 8 percent bf after it's all said and done.
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The 1 and 4 are synergistic. If anything the epi will counteract the water retention of the 4. Not the other way around. Lethargy is pretty strong from 1. Even with the 4, it may still hit you. So without it, imagine how bad it will be

mmorso said:
Idk man epi will help manage the bloat of 4 and help with lethargy. 4 will help you get more gains from the 1 andro. They're quite synergistic rather than counterproductive... it's the same as stacking masteron with aromatizing compounds (test, deca, etc)...

I agree with NewAgeMayan that it sucks to feel bloated while cutting, but sometimes products that help you lean out will cause a temporary bloat when you run them. Yohimbine, for instance, causes some guys to retain water... you'll still loose a ton of abdominal fat while your retaining water so it's worth running...

Best thing to do is be very anal with sodium intake... just my .2
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This
 
slapyou said:
330 1-Andro & 500 Epi.
Was thinking of at least upping the Epi to 750, but I knees are feeling creeky so I don't know how good of an idea that is.
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Try it before starting the 4, may as well. The 4 will take at least 2-3wks to exert benefits anyway. The knees may get no worse but the lethargy may decrease.

I trust youre not taking anything else which may be proving to be an additional contributor? And, youre getting plenty epa/dha and whatnot?
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Try it before starting the 4. The knees may get no worse but the lethargy may decrease.

I trust youre not taking anything else which may be proving to be an additional contributor? And, youre getting plenty epa/dha and whatnot?
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Nah I take a pwo, whey, fish oil, and use Zinc & Ashwaghanda before I go to bed.

I guess I should also note that my libido is in the pooper.... another reason I wanted to add the 4.

I'll up the Epi to 750 before starting the 4 and see how things go. Thanks for the suggestion
 
mmorso said:
No reason to run a natty test booster with clomid... run after, unless you get K1ng's Blood, which I highly recommend... run clomid + KB + a natty anabolic for a month, then run KB + natty anabolic for another month or 2 after you stop the clomid.

I was shutdown from LGD and felt like absolute sh1t for 3 weeks while running clomid.. I had pre ordered KB and it came my 3rd wk of clomid.

Within 3 days of taking KB I felt completely back to normal.
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so run my cycle, run clomid for a month, then a test booster after that?
 
scully55 said:
so run my cycle, run clomid for a month, then a test booster after that?
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1-Andro at 330
4- Andro at 330
Epi at 750

Clomid afterwards for 4-6 weeks tapering down the amounts. Then time on plus pct equals the amount of time before you can run again.
 
scully55 said:
so run my cycle, run clomid for a month, then a test booster after that?
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Yes sir... clomid will boost your test levels higher than a natty tbooster will... so when you discontinue the clomid the idea is to use a natty to try and maintain high t levels.

You will also want something for cortisol control... invictus or reduce XT will work great.

Also I think it's a good idea to take HMB too... you can buy bulk HMB powder of of amazon for dirt cheap
 
mmorso said:
Yes sir... clomid will boost your test levels higher than a natty tbooster will... so when you discontinue the clomid the idea is to use a natty to try and maintain high t levels.

You will also want something for cortisol control... invictus or reduce XT will work great.

Also I think it's a good idea to take HMB too... you can buy bulk HMB powder of of amazon for dirt cheap
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HMB pretty much seems to be a non suppressive ostarine IMO, preserves muscle just as Ost does
 
mmorso said:
Yes sir... clomid will boost your test levels higher than a natty tbooster will... so when you discontinue the clomid the idea is to use a natty to try and maintain high t levels.

You will also want something for cortisol control... invictus or reduce XT will work great.

Also I think it's a good idea to take HMB too... you can buy bulk HMB powder of of amazon for dirt cheap
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Good stuff man!
To add to the list.... I find it interesting that people rarely mention maco powder as a natural test booster, & estrogen reducer. It literally does what many products claim to do, but only cost like 20 bucks for a pound of raw maco. Ive seen some companies selling it in pill form for literally 4x the price that it cost on Amazon in the bag. Anyways, I think its a great natural addition for anyone's PCT.
 
mmorso said:
Yes sir... clomid will boost your test levels higher than a natty tbooster will... so when you discontinue the clomid the idea is to use a natty to try and maintain high t levels.

You will also want something for cortisol control... invictus or reduce XT will work great.

Also I think it's a good idea to take HMB too... you can buy bulk HMB powder of of amazon for dirt cheap
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i would take the cortisol control while taking the clomid right?
 
mmorso said:
Yes sir... clomid will boost your test levels higher than a natty tbooster will... so when you discontinue the clomid the idea is to use a natty to try and maintain high t levels.

You will also want something for cortisol control... invictus or reduce XT will work great.

Also I think it's a good idea to take HMB too... you can buy bulk HMB powder of of amazon for dirt cheap
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oh and would i need an estrogen blocker? or is that part covered with clomid
 
mmorso said:
Yes that's what I'd do


You shouldn't need an AI in the sense that you'll have such high test levels aromatize and get gyno or anything like that
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would i need the cortisol control if i used nolva instead? or should i take clomid over the nolva? sorry i have so many questions lol, i just wanna get my pct right
 
scully55 said:
would i need the cortisol control if i used nolva instead? or should i take clomid over the nolva? sorry i have so many questions lol, i just wanna get my pct right
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Go with clomid... from what I've researched it seems to be a little better at restarting the HPTA than nolvadex... a drawback to Nolva is that it lowers IGF-1 levels

You'll need cortisol control no matter what
 
mmorso said:
Go with clomid... from what I've researched it seems to be a little better at restarting the HPTA than nolvadex... a drawback to Nolva is that it lowers IGF-1 levels

You'll need cortisol control no matter what
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would i be good with just the clomid and cortisol control? or should i run a test booster after clomid too?
 
what if i were to take clomid, while taking a test booster with an adaptogen (cortisol control)? would that be a good route to take?
 
scully55 said:
what if i were to take clomid, while taking a test booster with an adaptogen (cortisol control)? would that be a good route to take?
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Thats the route Id go, as youd be killing multiple birds with one stone. Start a tbooster that has ash in it when you start PCT, and run the tbooster for 8 weeks. Most natty herbs dont really start cranking til 3+ weeks in anyway.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Thats the route Id go, as youd be killing multiple birds with one stone. Start a tbooster that has ash in it when you start PCT, and run the tbooster for 8 weeks. Most natty herbs dont really start cranking til 3+ weeks in anyway.
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8 weeks? damn lol i thought 4 would be enough, but thanks for letting me know. jw why 8 weeks?
 
scully55 said:
would i be good with just the clomid and cortisol control? or should i run a test booster after clomid too?
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Run clomid and Kings Blood.

Continue Kings Blood with a natty tbooster after you stop clomid.


I also used dermastrength unleashed.. I bought 2 bottles and started dosing it the last 2 weeks of my cycle and continued through PCT.

I PCT I take PA and Follidrone 2
 
Honestly look at Kings Blood I swear by the sh1t... when your c@ck stops working after a cycle you'll be happy you've got it in the stash... it's also pretty cheap at nutriverse so kind of a no brainer
 
scully55 said:
8 weeks? damn lol i thought 4 would be enough, but thanks for letting me know. jw why 8 weeks?
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4 weeks could be enough, but you have to wonder good for what?

My philosophy on PCT has evolved somewhat. Im of the mind now that it is better to think of PCT as not just that period of time youre using a SERM, but at least another 4 weeks after that finishes.

Jumping on clomid, cranking your test up as high as possible over 4 weeks....then hoping sh1t sticks, to me, is doing the whole recovery/homeostasis a disservice by being overly black-white.
 
mmorso said:
Go with clomid... from what I've researched it seems to be a little better at restarting the HPTA than nolvadex... a drawback to Nolva is that it lowers IGF-1 levels

You'll need cortisol control no matter what
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IIRC clomid also lowers igf-1 as well, maybe not as much... and nolva is stronger ansrestsrting htpa, there is also a study somewhere stating they compliment each other when being used together coz they differ in properties and their mode of action
 
M.I.D said:
IIRC clomid also lowers igf-1 as well, maybe not as much... and nolva is stronger ansrestsrting htpa, there is also a study somewhere stating they compliment each other when being used together coz they differ in properties and their mode of action
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This was my last PCT... will be my next as well...

Clomid: 50/50/25/25
Nolva: 20/20/10/10
Exem: 0/0/12.5eod/12.5eod/12.5eod/12.5eod

I've heard that dosing like this can actually improve your baseline level.. NewAgeMayan is there any truth to that?
 
mmorso said:
Well yes... And with taking both clomid and Nolva...
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I honestly havnt looked into the science of a nolva+clomid PCT. Ive based my single SERM protocol on logic...which is certainly not infallable and always amenable to further scientific information.

Cost wise, Id rather run exem if running clomid. Meaning, I think exem is possibly a better pairing with clomid than nolva is.
 
I know exem has great test boosting properties and not just via E suppression
Some see it as an absolute must in PCT
 
NewAgeMayan said:
I honestly havnt looked into the science of a nolva+clomid PCT. Ive based my single SERM protocol on logic...which is certainly not infallable and always amenable to further scientific information.

Cost wise, Id rather run exem if running clomid. Meaning, I think exem is possibly a better pairing with clomid than nolva is.
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Just curious, why run exam & clomid with andro1 & EPI when there is vertully no fear of gyno? Were you referring to other runs?
 
Joe12 said:
Just curious, why run exam & clomid with andro1 & EPI when there is vertully no fear of gyno? Were you referring to other runs?
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Let me preface this by saying that bloods rule all. If you really want to do a cycle and PCT properly, youll get bloods to help detemine what your AI doses should be.

Theres 3 main concerns with clomid: SHBG getting too high, e2 getting too high, and the clomid z-isomer lingering in your system for anywhere from 4-8wks after your last clomid dose. Its this z-isomer that can cause e2 elevations. These 3 can be compounded the higher the clomid dose; really, you dont need to be dosing higher than 25mg/day, even after a heavy cycle. Better to go longer at lower, than shorter at higher.

Exemestane can control all 3 of these variables. How much do you need? Again, ideally you run bloods to guide your dosing protocol (thats what they do when using these two pharma compounds for trt purposes).

If you dont get bloods, you start with a generic protocol and adjust from there.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Let me preface this by saying that bloods rule all. If you really want to do a cycle and PCT properly, youll get bloods to help detemine what your AI doses should be.

Theres 3 main concerns with clomid: SHBG getting too high, e2 getting too high, and the clomid z-isomer lingering in your system for anywhere from 4-8wks after your last clomid dose. Its this z-isomer that can cause e2 elevations. These 3 can be compounded the higher the clomid dose; really, you dont need to be dosing higher than 25mg/day, even after a heavy cycle. Better to go longer at lower, than shorter at higher.

Exemestane can control all 3 of these variables. How much do you need? Again, ideally you run bloods to guide your dosing protocol (thats what they do when using these two pharma compounds for trt purposes).

If you dont get bloods, you start with a generic protocol and adjust from there.
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Cool, rationale thinking. You are def not alone on your clomid comment... I have read a couple arguments for a lower/longer clomid dose then the norm 50/50/25/25. I have often found it odd that the norm is to skyrocket your test, just on the heals of 2-month suppression, then only tapper down to 25 then nothing. Seems like a hard yoyo effect on the body. What do you normally run, something like 25, 25, 20, 15, 10, 5
 
Joe12 said:
Cool, rationale thinking. You are def not alone on your clomid comment... I have read a couple arguments for a lower/longer clomid dose then the norm 50/50/25/25. I have often found it odd that the norm is to skyrocket your test, just on the heals of 2-month suppression, then only tapper down to 25 then nothing. Seems like a hard yoyo effect on the body. What do you normally run, something like 25, 25, 20, 15, 10, 5
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25-25-12.5-12.5eod
Exemestane for 8-10wks

Im currently running 20wks+ test-e, deca, and will finish with trestolone. I was going to then go to trt doses of test but Im really tempted to PCT to show n=1 can recover from a long heavy cycle without having to utilise 50mg clomid doses whatsoever.
 
Anyone have some advice for time after PCT for 4andro/1andro? I'll be finishing up an 8 week cycle and on clomid/OTC PCT after. My question is how much time till I can cycle again?
 
What ever happened to OP here? He got like 10 days in, posted a pic and then other folks took over his thread 🤣
 
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