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Epi and ??? Furuza/11-oxo/Katana??

Gore

Member
I am planning a stack for the future and I am trying to get my ducks in a row. I have literally been in bed for the past 4 days recovering from a surgery and have been an AM fiend. I am pretty set on running EPI as my main goal is to recomp and a slight cut. I would also like to regain some of the strength that I have lost over the years by being more focused on MMA than heavy lifting.

Through my many hours of researching I have planned and re-planned several stacks...as you know for every positive of review of one stack there are several detractors coming behind and poo-pooing it. I am looking for opinions here of stacks to achieve my goals...then I will get into PCT's and cycle assisting supps too. I don't want to give the impression they're not important, I just want to stay focused on the stack at hand. So here is what I was debating between:

Epi/11-oxo: I have seen this stack several times with different variations and it seems relatively safe. Some people say running both at the same time is a waste of 11-oxo, and that a bridge would work better...Here is where I am open to your thoughts.

Epi/Furuza: Read the 40 some-odd page thread here and it seemed legit except for the libido loss

Epi/Katana: Read that Katana was a great cutter and also had low sides.

So...what do you guys think?

Also, before I begin this stack I am going to run a couple bottles of HGHup and Free Test along with some T2 Xtreme.

I'm 31, 5'10" 200ish (thanks to pre-surgery inactivity)lbut usually stay 190ish (I fight at 85 and may drop to 70). Have trained for 14 years and never had gyno nor any sensitivity. Take Dutas for hair thinning.
 
furuza a and katan = same compound

1st, epi is your powerful compound here. Katan and 11 oxo are very similar and can be swaped in place of one another. Both are $$$ and need to be dosed high and for longer periods of time.

Id do this


Epi
30/40/40/40/40/40
Katan
250/350/350/400/400/400


it will build a decent amount of muscle and will allow for lots of BF loss. 350-400mg of katan is the SH!T!!. 11 oxo can be swaped in place of katan @
375/450/450/525/525/600


the issue with 11 oxo is its even more $$$ than katan....and doesnt really build muscle, even @ 600mg. But great for BF loss.
 
You can buy 11-oxo powder in bulk though, which means it could be cheaper.

Though I stack katanadrol with pretty much everything...because its awesome
 
11-oxo can be cheaper than furuza. I have a 10 week cycle at 625 for around $130. 4 bottles each with 90 125mg caps.
 
Can you pm me where I could find 11-oxo in bulk for that price range? Is it worth spending a few extra bucks to get the furuza over the 11-oxo? Or are they too similar to justify the extra cost?
 
furuza a is better, it offers muscle growth too. 11 oxo can build muscle but would need to be at the 1g a day range. But when you dose it that high you dont have any cortisol in your body which will bring you different issues to deal with.
 
If taking Epi, not sure I care for mass gains from Furuza. The question would be would furuza lead to more fat loss than 11-OXO. I still do not understand how Furuza works in fat loss wise. I see it being used to maintain size, but does it really lead to fat loss?

In any case, I have both and I plan on running one cycle of each plus Epi over the next year. I was planning on front loading the 11-OXO then adding Epi later, but I'm concerned with some of the posts where people said they felt less motivated to workout etc.
 
fururza wont build mass, lean muscle yes.

people say they dont wana workout cuz they are seeing the effects from lethargy.....no test in your system. Transderm or dermacrine would stop any of that. Lethargy is GOING to happen when taking orals without test. Hence why you always have a test base (well you have a test base for lots of reasons, this is just 1)
 
fadi said:
If taking Epi, not sure I care for mass gains from Furuza. The question would be would furuza lead to more fat loss than 11-OXO. I still do not understand how Furuza works in fat loss wise. I see it being used to maintain size, but does it really lead to fat loss?

In any case, I have both and I plan on running one cycle of each plus Epi over the next year. I was planning on front loading the 11-OXO then adding Epi later, but I'm concerned with some of the posts where people said they felt less motivated to workout etc.
Click to expand...

This is more in line with my goals and my way of thinking. I want use the products that aid fat loss primarily.
 
Couple extra points and questions...

I have a couple of bottles of Lean Xtreme still laying around, while I realize that 11-oxo is stronger, could I still run the LX in place of 11-oxo and then add Furuza into the mix. To be honest I didn't notice much while taking the LX the first time so I wouldn't want to make a big investment in 11-oxo for a product along the same lines as one that didn't do much. I'd rather put my money into Katana/Furuza and hope for the lean muscle gains.

The other thing is that I was also expecting to run some HGHup and Free Test before this cycle of Epi & ?. Should I run another cycle of HGHup and Free Test after the Epi cycle to get things producing again? Along with a SERM?
 
I think HGH supps are waste of money. People use high dose ofvreal HGH and still take long time to seeany results.

I cannot tell you if 11-oxo would produce same as LX since I did not try either. I would imagine 11-oxo is better, but that is a guess. You could go the furuza route and add LX. I was debating using 11-oxo and furuza at same time but decided itis a waste and will be running Epi/11-oxo cycle in jan and Furuza/epi or furuza/ultra in May or June.
 
fadi said:
I think HGH supps are waste of money. People use high dose ofvreal HGH and still take long time to seeany results.

I cannot tell you if 11-oxo would produce same as LX since I did not try either. I would imagine 11-oxo is better, but that is a guess. You could go the furuza route and add LX. I was debating using 11-oxo and furuza at same time but decided itis a waste and will be running Epi/11-oxo cycle in jan and Furuza/epi or furuza/ultra in May or June.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree with you about the HGH supps, and as of now I have never used one. I did use real HGH for a bit and didn't see much of anything but did manage to help maintain weight while on a crappy a diet and recovering from an injury (which is part of why I want to use it now). I have to say though that I have seen nothing but good reviews about HGHup as far as getting better sleep (which I could always use) and for leaning up. Perhaps that is more related to any increases in testosterone than HGH but either way the reviews look positive.
 
Ok...thanks to some help I have decided to go with Epi & drumroll please....11-oxo! Now I want to get some specifics down. I have seen people run the Epi for 6 weeks and then bridge the 11-oxo for another 2-3 weeks. Of course this means that I would be on orals for 9 weeks straight which people have also said is a bit of a waste, especially finishing up with something as mild as 11-oxo. What do you guys think about running them both for 6-7 weeks, Epi: 30/40/40/40/40/40 and 11-oxo: (undecided) 600-1000 x week for length of cycle?
 
if you want to run 11-oxo longer than epi then I would start with 11-oxo then add epi. 11-oxo is not supressive at moderate dose so you most likely won't be shutdown until you add epi. But if you run epi first, you may not rebound till you finish 11-oxo. this is a guess of course.I don't see the point of running 11-oxo at 1g. For cortisol control you need 350-600. you can run it at 1g to add mass but it would not be strong enough to justify the cost.
 
If that is the case I still wouldn't want to run orals for too long so I would still stick to a 6 week cycle and just run the 11-oxo at 600 for the entire time, and 40 of epi ed as well....but starting with 30 for the first week...so:

Epi: 30/40/40/40/40/40
11-oxo:600/600/600/600/600/600

now for the additionals/pct: Im thinking nolva 20/20/10/10, cycle assist throughout, lean xtreme during pct, and maybe some daa or free test or both
 
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