EPA/DHA Fish Oil Immune Suppression

[GreenMachineX]

Has anyone looked into the amount of epa/dha it takes to suppress immune function to an unhealthy level? I want to maximize the anti-inflammatory, NE lowering and serotonin elevating effects without supressing immune function. Anyone have any thoughts or any good studies on it?

 

[Brocodeout69]

I know some of the research is contradictory at best. EPA/DHA does exert an immunoregulatory response, with some research citing positive effects, and others negative ones.

In 2011, I dosed 10-12g daily of EPA/DHA during a cut for 45 days, with a high protein, high fat and low carb diet, and felt that it helped me to lean out. I did this February - March and didn't experience more illness than is usual.

However, I did experience GI issues, resulting with me running to the bathroom off and on throughout the process. I tried tapering, altering the my intake slowly, higher fiber intake, etc., but nothing helped with the runs!

Edit: 10-12 Grams not MG

 

[GreenMachineX]

I know some of the research is contradictory at best. EPA/DHA does exert an immunoregulatory response, with some research citing positive effects, and others negative ones.

In 2011, I dosed 10-12mg daily of EPA/DHA during a cut for 45 days, with a high protein, high fat and low carb diet, and felt that it helped me to lean out. I did this February - March and didn't experience more illness than is usual.

However, I did experience GI issues, resulting with me running to the bathroom off and on throughout the process. I tried tapering, altering the my intake slowly, higher fiber intake, etc., but nothing helped with the runs!

10-12 grams you mean???

 

[Brocodeout69]

10-12 grams you mean???

Yeah sorry typo!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yeah sorry typo!

Holy smokes, there's a lot lol. I get headaches when I go above 2g.

 

[Brocodeout69]

Holy smokes, there's a lot lol. I get headaches when I go above 2g.

If you search the AM forum from back in the day, folks were doing similar doses to me.

Search "Fish Oil Megadosing" or something to that extent.

 

[Brocodeout69]

I would break up the doses, evenly, and consume around meal times (i.e., 4-6 times a day). Still messed with my stomach, but I was noticeably more lean and had great vascularity

 

[Brocodeout69]

Holy smokes, there's a lot lol. I get headaches when I go above 2g.

Prior to switching to nattokinase (rather than 81mg aspirin), I would take 2-3 grams regularly, daily. But, I'm 6ft3, 255 lb, and obviously dosing is size, metabolism, etc. dependent.

 

[sns8778]

I think that the average person would hit a level of stomach discomfort that would disallow them from conveniently taking more before they would hit the point for any type of immunosuppression imo.

For high dosing, NOW Foods Ultra Omega is enteric coated and a great choice to help get the dosage higher without it causing as many GI issues.

 

[sns8778]

I like this one and I'd echo that you would probably run into other issues before immune suppression if you dosed the fish oil high enough.

I don't think you need a ton to get the benefits most people would want from fish oil and I prefer to focus on products with adequate EPA/DHA dosage versus just maximizing unstandardized fish oil dosage.

Absolutely agreed. I think that a lot of people get too wrapped up in the total fish oil dosage in grams rather than looking at how much of the active ingredients (EPA/DHA) that they are getting.

 

[Brocodeout69]

Absolutely agreed. I think that a lot of people get too wrapped up in the total fish oil dosage in grams rather than looking at how much of the active ingredients (EPA/DHA) that they are getting.

Agreed on the complications from over-doing EPA/DHA, as the GI issues I experienced, and thus the decreased nutrition absorption were not worth the marginal benefits.

NOW is a great brand.

However, for me personally, Kirkland Fish Oil is my go to. It's extremly cost effective, UPS certified, and in terms of mercury content (should you be weary of that) it's been consistenly tested as being pretty low when comapred to other brands. I don't however like that they don't include the exact EPA/DHA ratio, but other than that, it's great if your on a budget!

 

[GreenMachineX]

I like this one and I'd echo that you would probably run into other issues before immune suppression if you dosed the fish oil high enough.

I don't think you need a ton to get the benefits most people would want from fish oil and I prefer to focus on products with adequate EPA/DHA dosage versus just maximizing unstandardized fish oil dosage.

Absolutely agreed. I think that a lot of people get too wrapped up in the total fish oil dosage in grams rather than looking at how much of the active ingredients (EPA/DHA) that they are getting.

Right; that's what we've been talking about though, i.e. total epa/dha only.

 

[sns8778]

Right; that's what we've been talking about though, i.e. total epa/dha only.

Understood. I was replying specifically to Resolve's post where he said "I prefer to focus on products with adequate EPA/DHA dosage versus just maximizing unstandardized fish oil dosage" and agreeing with that and because I tend to post in a way to where I'm trying to educate people that may be reading the thread but not posting &/or that may read the thread months or years down the road - because a big problem in the Fish Oil market in general with general consumers is that many people know that they should take Fish Oil but they don't know or understand the EPA/DHA part of it so many will take high grams per day of total fish oil but really not knowing what EPA/DHA content that they are getting or even knowing that that's the most important part.

 

[Brocodeout69]

Right; that's what we've been talking about though, i.e. total epa/dha only.

Yup, was just commenting on a solid fish oil supplement.

In terms of dosing, megadosing, I used NOW Foods, Omega-3 Fish Oil with lemon flavor I believe. I smelled like fish 24/7, and had a bit of GI distress, but dammit I looked lean! lol.

 

[sns8778]

Yup, was just commenting on a solid fish oil supplement.

In terms of dosing, megadosing, I used NOW Foods, Omega-3 Fish Oil with lemon flavor I believe. I smelled like fish 24/7, and had a bit of GI distress, but dammit I looked lean! lol.

I have to do enteric coated ones, I can't handle the taste or smell of it. I hate fish in general.

I used to use the NOW Foods Ultra Omega that I posted on earlier, but I've switched myself to using Algal oil based versions bc of the smell and taste bothering me so bad. But I realize I'm in the minority there bc most people eat fish anyway.

 

[Brocodeout69]

I have to do enteric coated ones, I can't handle the taste or smell of it. I hate fish in general.

I used to use the NOW Foods Ultra Omega that I posted on earlier, but I've switched myself to using Algal oil based versions bc of the smell and taste bothering me so bad. But I realize I'm in the minority there bc most people eat fish anyway.

Enterically coated is definitely the way to go. Fish burps are a very real phenomenon!

You're not in the minority, fish isn't my forte either. I can eat canned tuna with copious amounts of mayonnaise, but that's about it!

 

[DieselNY]

Other than Curcumin, fish oil has always been my top supplement of choice for decades now and I consume a lot more than the avg person, probably upwards of 9 to 12 g today. It works wonders for my rheumatoid arthritis and tons of other benefits. I can't fantom any negatives IMHO.

 

[Brocodeout69]

Other than Curcumin, fish oil has always been my top supplement of choice for decades now and I consume a lot more than the avg person, probably upwards of 9 to 12 g today. It works wonders for my rheumatoid arthritis and tons of other benefits. I can't fantom any negatives IMHO.

Curcumin is a staple of mine as well. I'm liking the profile of @sns8778 new Curcumin product. Not meaning to derail.

 

[Brocodeout69]

@GreenMachineX

Here's some old copy & paste data I took from Alan Aragon's site from 2013. I apologize in advance as I don't have the reference citations saved. Hope this helps.

"Yes, Luke, there is always a dark side. In the world of unchecked marketing hype, fish oil has definitely gotten the “more is better” stamp. The problem is, EPA and DHA have a well-documented ability to suppress the body’s immune response. Although not as consistent as the immune effects, data also exist on the ability of EPA and DHA to increase bleeding time and oxidation. Let’s take a look at a couple of the published peer-reviewed research that no one in the fitness industry talks about.

Thies and colleagues examined the 12-week effect of various fatty acid supplement mixes on healthy subjects [19]. Various blends of placebo oil and oils rich in ALA, GLA, AA, DHA, or EPA (720mg) + DHA (280mg) were compared. Total fat intake from the 9-capsule dose was 4 g/d. The EPA/DHA treatment was the only one that had a negative effect on immunity, significantly decreasing natural killer cell activity by 48%. This effect was reversed after 4 weeks of ceasing intake of the supplement.

Rees and colleagues investigated the effects of various amounts of EPA on immune markers in young and older men [20]. In a 12-week study, EPA was incorporated into plasma and mononuclear cell phospholipids. Supplemental EPA in amounts of 1.35, 2.7, and 4.05g/day caused a dose-dependent decrease in neutrophil respiratory burst, indicating the suppression of a cellular defense against immunity threats. This effect was seen in the older, but not the younger men. Based on these and the previous data, if you’re not a spring chicken, and immunity is an issue, you might not want to go hog-wild on the fish oil dosing."